Bricked Epson Printers Make a Strong Case For User Repairability (theverge.com) 101
Epson has gained some scrutiny in recent weeks after the company disabled a printer that was otherwise working fine, leading to accusations of planned obsolescence. Epson knows its printers will stop working without simple maintenance at a predictable point in the future, and it knows that it won't be cost-effective for many owners to send their home printers in for service. So why not build them to be user serviceable in the first place? The Verge: The inciting post from @marktavern mentions that his wife was unable to use her "very expensive Epson printer" after an end-of-service error message appeared. This isn't anything new for Epson printers, sadly. Reports going back several years mention an infamous error message that reads "parts inside the printer have reached the end of their service life." Epson confirmed to The Verge that the error is related to the printer's ink pads, which had likely become saturated through extended use and were now at risk of spilling into the rest of the printer mechanism.
In a recently updated support document, Epson offers several solutions to resolve the problem. These include sending the printer into Epson to replace the ink pads or having a local certified technician do it. Previously (via Wayback Machine), just before the issue gained notoriety, Epson conceded that "repair may not be a good investment for lower cost printers because the printer's other components also may be near the end of usable life." It then added that "most consumers who are out of warranty elect to replace a lower-cost printer when they receive an end of life service message." Now, Epson suggests the feel-good option of sending the bricked unit in for recycling.
In a recently updated support document, Epson offers several solutions to resolve the problem. These include sending the printer into Epson to replace the ink pads or having a local certified technician do it. Previously (via Wayback Machine), just before the issue gained notoriety, Epson conceded that "repair may not be a good investment for lower cost printers because the printer's other components also may be near the end of usable life." It then added that "most consumers who are out of warranty elect to replace a lower-cost printer when they receive an end of life service message." Now, Epson suggests the feel-good option of sending the bricked unit in for recycling.
The stronger case is... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Or... don't buy printers? I don't have one. About once a year I need to print something that's not work related (copies of taxes). I usually print those at work anyway. In any event, for an inkjet, I print seldom enough that it's guaranteed to have crusty ink anyway, so the ink jet is just substandard. Even on a good day, I've never seen an inkjet printout that looked good, it is inherently a low end product that inevitablly comes with an absurd price for ink.
For those who do use prints a lot for home,
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I get it, but some of us need to print stuff, and not just once in a while.
I typically have to print something at least a couple of times a week, so outsourcing it wouldn't be convenient or cost-effective for me.
Re:The stronger case is... (Score:4, Informative)
Sounds like a job for a low cost laser printer.
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Yep.
I have a cheap B&W one (Samsung) and a fancier color HP Laserjet.
The Samsung is a reliable little printer, I've run a ton of paper through and it still works perfectly. Toner cartridges are cheap, so all in all it's a practical way for me to go.
No complaints about the HP, it's also very reliable and produces a decently sharp page. And it will print on *anything*, from paper to foil to plastic to pressed linen, sticky labels, parchment paper, photo paper, etc etc.
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I have several older (10 to 30 years) HP LaserJets that all work just fine. Occasional toner carts and the oldest one needs a roller replaced, that's it.
Conversely, my old Epson Actionlaser is consigned to the dustbin, because tho the printer still works, one does not replace the toner cart -- rather, the entire imaging unit, which costs more than a new low-end HPLJ.
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I wonder how many old HP LJ 4000/4050/4100's are still kicking out there...I can remember setting them up (and carrying the damn things around) years and years ago.
Ah memories...
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Oh, probably lots of them. HPLJ2 are still to be found cranking away; not unusual for those old beasts to go over a million pages.
Presently my oldest is a 4p (that needs a new roller), and then the pair of hernia-inducing LJ2100. The little 1020 sits on the desk and is way past the projected pagecount on its original toner cart. Then a couple newer ones (about 10 years old now) when they fell on my head. And best of all, they don't know no date stops or only-work-with-OEM carts.
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HP LaserJet 1100 which is like 20 years old and replacement toner is like 15-20 every few years. Sure it grabs more than one paper often, and only does black and white, but it continues to work while my friends are on their 3rd or 4th expensive printer and dozens of ink replacement.
Might eventually replace it with a brother home office business line, maybe color maybe scanner.
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I bought a cheap B&W laser... Panatech, I think it was... It was 20 quid on Amazon. Used it for a year, about 700 pages. The wifi didn't work but it was fine on USB.
I think I'd stump up for a Samsung if I knew I was going to keep it, or maybe a Brother because those things are workhorses and will last decades. You can get referb carts for both. But for a temporary thing the Panatech was great, decent print quality and never jammed.
Printing only becomes expensive if you want colour. I have a colour laser
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I have a five year old color Samsung I got on sale for $100. It's still going strong.
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Still there's no practical reason to get an inkjet printer. Inkjets are a cheap technology that's pretty much, well, cheap.
Instead, invest in a laser printer - a cheap laser printer isn't much more than a decent inkjet printer, and the toner cartrdiges are far cheaper (for the cost of maybe 2 inkjet cartridges, you get a toner cartridge, but a toner cartridge is generally
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I still have typewriters in my house. Several in fact.
Granted they're in display cases ... but they do work perfectly give or take a dry ribbon.
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Do you need to print that? (Score:2)
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You obviously don't have any extremely elderly relatives who are technically illiterate.
"Grandma" is over ninety. You can't send her a text message because she doesn't have a cell phone, doesn't want one either thank-you-very-much, and she is quite happy with the corded AT&T Trimline (rotary!) phone hanging on the wall in the kitchen which still uses pulse dialing (absolutely no DTMF tones here). You can't email her because she also doesn't have a computer, and even if she did, she doesn't know how to
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Oh, and she wants photos of the grandchildren printed on paper so that she can put them in the picture frame on the table.
There's no need to put up with an Inkjet to get a photo on paper.
There's photo printing services *everywhere* these days that do a better job than any Inkjet.
Myself, I need to print UPS return shipping labels when returning items from various department stores that insist that you cannot return the item to the store where you bought it
Is there any need to print those with ink that costs more than Chanel #5?
The beef isn't with "printing", it's with those fucking inkjets. A laser will print those labels with a lot less fuss and a whole lot cheaper.
Planned Obsolescence (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Planned Obsolescence (Score:4, Informative)
BMW is charging $18 for seat heating. GM is forcing a $1500 purchase of shitty software.
More time, and this will be a reality.
Re: Planned Obsolescence (Score:2)
Tesla is charging $10000 for an unfinished feature.
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Not exactly...
It's more like the manufacturer notes that no unnecessary replacement parts have been added to the car in 2 years, and shuts the entire car down demanding extortion money to re-enable it.
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Your CC has been going for 50000 miles. I am shutting the car down until it is replaced with a overpriced "genuine part" whose only difference is a sticker.
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There's going to be a sensor in your wallet in order to determine how much markup they'll put on your purchase!
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They don't even need a sensor on you wallet, they just sell all the data from your "loyalty" cards to decide the markup. "Hey, this guy always buys the premium brands, we can probably make him pay more!"
Or even "this guy lives in an expensive zip code. Charge him more!"
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Bad analogy, this is more like a car manufacturer detecting that a catalytic converter might fail and becomes locked in park.
There, fixed that for you.
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Bad analogy, this is more like a car manufacturer detecting that a catalytic converter has failed and becomes locked in park.
More like the car detects it has reached n miles and deliberately bricks the ECU
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No more lug nuts, just weld the wheel directly to the axle! And de-engineer the rest of the car so everything wears out roughly coincidental with the tires at around 36,000 miles.
There would be no oil changes because the crankcase would be welded shut: no oil filler cap, no oil drain plug, no dipstick, no oil filter. Just an oil quality sensor that tells you whe
Re: Planned Obsolescence (Score:2)
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There was a time, not too long ago, when cars lasted about three years. Typically the engine would blow up just after you replaced the brake drums, clutch and exhaust pipe.
Yeah, it was called the seventies. But both before and after that, cars were much more reliable.
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Brake drums and 'not too long ago'... Something doesn't make sense there.
wearing out the clutch, I suspect someone likes to red line the engine. Gee I wonder why it blew up?
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Yes, massively overbuilt very low performance engines can last for a very long time, no matter when they have been manufactured.
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Below 500-1000hp they tend to actually be more powerful and efficient than modern turbines (because turbines only become more efficient at high power and continuous load). Efficiency mostly has to do with the expansion valve timing and the crazy high torque piston engines have at lower RPM's. It's also why we use piston engines in cars instead of turbines.
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Not the ones built in the 19th century since they have been designed for low pressures (hence low performance). High performance engines don't last.
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They would if it hadn't been made illegal back when they started to try to void warranties for using unofficial parts.
It wasn't done just for consumers though. The insurance industry wanted those rules too, because pattern parts are much cheaper and functionally identical, so the cost of claims can be lower.
This applies to OLD Epson printers (Score:5, Interesting)
They're talking about the ink pad eventually on old printers, which is a problem not just for Epson but broadly.
However, newer Epson printers, like the EcoTank line, come with what's officially referred to as the "maintenance box", which is a user-replaceable ink pad that you can order from Epson for $10 and free shipping, as well as a variety of other places, like Amazon. The printer reports the remaining lifetime of this part alongside ink levels, they're in no way hiding it in newer models.
It's going to be hard for them to fix this issue on old hardware, but for newer models (actually going back several years now), they've already designed in a user-friendly and low cost solution. They ought to be given some credit for doing the right thing.
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I bet the "very expensive" printer model was 100USD at most. The EcoTank line is twice that for the entry level models, but it is at least somewhat designed to be user-servicable.
Since the Eco Tank is designed to reduce ink costs Epson can’t subsidize the printer with the intent of making up for it in ink.
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It's nice to hear their newer printers fix the known problems.
NOTE: cheap printers were/are sold at a loss because the profit is in the ink!
You can't have a cheap printer without scams and expect the company to stay in business.
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Re: This applies to OLD Epson printers (Score:2)
If they sell them at a loss, wouldn't it be in the companies best interest to make them last longer?
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Nope. There is a cost benefit ratio, they are always searching for the best balance. Cheap devices don't plan on support services; so when part X wears out like it should the device is junk (not repairable) and so why not engineer everything to die at the same time to save money?? That is just good engineering misdirected.
In addition, the chips they use solely to prevent 3rd party ink eventually get hacked and/or the printers themselves. Some cartridge changes really made zero sense except that a new chip
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The problem is that they aren't above board about it. You know they make up for it with the ink, but they never said anything about very special irreplacable sponges (totally replaceable) or firmware with a built in time bomb for EOL.
Perhaps if they didn't blow all that money on engineering ways for the printer to fail early their margins wouldn't be so bad.
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EcoTanks a soooo nice. Cost a lot upfront, but you get that back in the cost of ink. The ink is reasonably priced and the printer only sips it!
Go Epson!
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Personally. I support right-to-repair laws but also advocate full liability nullification once the right-to-repair is exercised. Along with EXTREMELY snarky warnings.
I want those Brother printers to flash the f
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I believe there's a reasonable middle ground. I am an advocate of right to repair, and I repair a lot of devices myself. I've fixed several synthesizers, printers, monitors... looking around my home there's not that many devices that I haven't fixed something on at some point. If you're responsible for causing damage during the course of a repair it's fair enough for the manufacturer to turn around and say, "hey, you damaged this, it didn't fail on its own, we're not covering that". However, I disagree that
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Why not work on stuff that's under warranty? Manufacturers aren't allowed to void a warranty just because you open and repair it, and who wants to be without a product because it needs to be shipped across the country and back for weeks at a time at your own expense, when you can just do it yourself in an hour? The reason you buy stuff in the first place is because you need to use it. Being without the use of it is therefore a huge PITA in most cases.
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Yeah you paid for the warranty, meaning you have the option to enforce the warranty, and you also have the right to repair it. Having a warranty shouldn't limit my available repair options, it should increase them.
Re: This applies to OLD Epson printers (Score:2)
You can download a maintenance program for epson printers that allows you reset the ink pad counter also. This pad is not easy to replace in the smaller units, it is not just the one under the heads, there can be another one deeper inside.
Not bricked (Score:3)
The printers display a message. That isn't "bricked" in the slightest. Bricked means you need to break out the SPI or JTAG programmer because it has the response of a brick.
Effective Brick (Score:3)
The printers display a message. That isn't "bricked" in the slightest.
The printers display a message yes - but you omit the part where that's all they do, they will not actually print anything at that point.
What is the difference then between a real bricking, and what is happening? Basically you do have to "break out the SPI or JTAG programmer" at that point to alter the firmware so it can continue to print.
In a way it's worse than a bricking, because at least a brick doesn't mock you with a mechanically f
Re:Effective Brick (Score:5, Funny)
What is the difference then between a real bricking, and what is happening?
The printer responds to input. Not bricked. Now calling it a printer is up for debate.
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I tried to replace some broken bricks with a bricked printer once. Let's just say the results were catastrophic.
Turning bricks into printers... Re:Effective Brick (Score:1)
... if LEGO bricks count. Telegraph machine and printer [jkbrickworks.com] made with LEGO Mindstorms EV3 kit.
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It's not bricked, there are software tools for resetting the counter.
https://www.google.com/search?... [google.com]
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But the ink pad (or "the printer's diaper" as i like to call it), is full. Do NOT reset the counter without replacing the pad. It's very well calibrated. a few more priming cycles and your printer will start leaking ink on your desk.
I have my 1430W "modded": I just pulled the little hose from the ouput of the priming pump, connected to a small piece of plastic tubing, and have it throwing the discard ink in an old shampoo bottle... the priming uses up a LOT of ink. I'd say, if you don't print all of your ca
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Since it won't print at all and that is it's only useful function, how is merely managing to display a message not analogous to a brick that some kid painted "FUCK" on?
Re: Effective Brick (Score:2)
Better than a ziplock bag full of dirt with "Puto" written on it.
I wonder how many here remember that little story?
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If I was the developer writing that firmware I'd have it display "FU ERROR", as in "Full Up Error". Then I'd start polishing my CV.
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Now you know where all the ink goes ... (Score:1)
when it's cleaning its head every few hours.
The printer business is not about the hardware, it's about selling ink. So know why the ink pads get full. I suggest if teh ink pads are accessable with minor disassemble, then take the ink pad and wash it, duh!
I had an HP inkjet printer I bought because the ink was inexpensive @ $17 until after I bought it and needed a refill and found it to then cost over $50. But HP sells that printer with full cartridges and Microcenter had the printer on sale for less than wh
Re:Now you know where all the ink goes ... (Score:5, Informative)
Epsons's EcoTank line (which has replaceable ink pads), actually don't do the incessant ink-dumping dance, and their ink bottles are huge, last ages, and are much lower cost than the likes of HP to boot. If you actually want to get out from under the thumb of manufactures who do not have replaceable ink pads, have expensive ink, use drm on their catridges to expire them or block refills/third party ink, then the EcoTank line is actually something we should be championing.
Disclosure: I own one, I bought it after growing tired of years of HP shenanigans. It's been a great experience.
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Not just their printers (Score:1)
Years ago the bulb on my Epson Scanner burnt out. Replacing a bulb should be a simple repair, right? No... there wasn't any way I could even figure out how to open the unit to get to the bulb to replace it. Searching around I found a local Epson repair center and what they wanted to replace the bulb was TWICE the price of just buying a new scanner!!
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Your scanner was assembled in cheap labor country with worker paid $1 per hour, no health insurance and no retirement saving.
No surprise that the repair shop next to you in your homeland with higher minimum wage, insurances, taxes, get you to pay twice the price you paid for the scanner, just to replace the light bulb.
The issue is not Epson, it is the low cost you paid for it, sending your money into a foreign economy, with much lower cost and much lower living standards than you comfortable country, that i
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DRIVERS (Score:2)
My Epson Scanner was just fine; cheaply made but engineered well enough that it probably would have lasted a very long time. The DRIVERS were not horrible but they were not supported for that long so it became useless without 3rd party (not free) drivers. I ended up giving it away to somebody with an old machine so they lost $ from those people at least. Well, turns out frequent use did wear it out eventually despite it being LED based... I'd not be surprised if it was firmware in the end.
Ink/toner ripoff (Score:1)
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Bro. Color toner costs more to make, and it costs even more to make it that color consistently. HTH, HAND.
print is dead. (Score:2)
Just throw these away and exchange documents electronically. It's not like they're 7 figure investments.
I can see their point (maybe)! (Score:2)
1. Installing a bunch of embedded electronics under a water pipe.
2. Putting that same product above the pipes, with the pipes blocking access.
3. Clients and coworkers refusing at all costs to clear their browser cache, history, cookies, after MAJOR updates.
4. Complaining feature X works the exact way requested, inst
To play devil's advocate. (Score:3)
For starters, Epson's newer ECO tanks, the ET photo series have addressed this issue. They have a user replaceable maintained box(pads). But with older printers, you can still get around this with a bit research, which I'll go into below -- there are plenty of how to videos on YouTube.
When Epson throws up this error message, those pads are saturated with ink. Imagine trying to soak up water with an already wet sponge.
If you get this message on an older EcoTank, with a bit of searching you'll find a utility that will reset it. But you will still need to clean the pads, which from experience Windex is the best option. The pads will be filed with what looks like black ink, so prepare for a mess.
For future reference, one way extend the life of the pads on any printer -- given that you're not printing full page images day in and out, is to simply use the printer at least once a week.
So print a maintenance check, the pattern. This greatly limits how often the printer will need to do an ink-sucking-deep-cleaning; which is what soils the pads more than anything else. This also helps to prevents the inks from drying out, which is especially true with pigment inks; which are expensive.
Disclaimer, I bought an ET-8500, along with extra ink -- enough for 5 to 10 years of printing along with an extra Maintenance Box -- which solves the problem of earlier Epson Eco tanks. Prints that would have cost 2 - 5 bucks on my older Epson printers are now pennies to print. The paper is now the most expensive part of a print, where as it was the ink.
I have no complaints with printer. It provides Inexpensive excellent prints and I now have more ink than I have paper to print on -- which is a first. So don't fret about buying a printer like this, just because someone Tweeted. Always do your research to state the obvious.
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So excuse my ignorance, but why doesn't the ink in the pad dry out?
I would have expected the saturated pad to dry unless you're printing constantly...
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Just like an old sponge or shammy, the pads on any printer eventually reach their life. But I know from experience that Windex soaked paper towel, can greatly extend the life of any printer pads -- even get them white again.
Look for printer pad replacement and disaster.
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For future reference, one way extend the life of the pads on any printer -- given that you're not printing full page images day in and out, is to simply use the printer at least once a week.
Or, y'know, realize that you really need to print color only every now and then, and get a B&W laser printer that can sit idle for months and print just fine.
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Lasers are the best option for text on paper, for b&w bulk and speed. They're an essential printer IMO for most. But when it comes to printing art and photos, especially on specialty papers( textured, fine art, etc
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If you are printing less than once a week I'd have thought just ordering prints with fast delivery, or going to the local print shop, would be cheaper. Maybe keep a small B&W laser around for documents if you need to print those in a hurry.
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Epson used to be good (Score:2)
These days the only reasonable recommendation is not to buy from them. I mean, seriously, send it in for repair or call a technician to replace what is probably a 5 cent part? That is in no way acceptable these days.
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If you've owned enough printers -- which I have going back to the nineties, these pads get saturated with ink, especially when doing a printer cleaning and also from heavy use. This is true for any printer. I've personally owned Epson and Canons.
For older consumer printers, this
Why? Why do you think?? (Score:2)
"So why not build them to be user serviceable in the first place?"
Because Epson makes more money when the sell you another printer, DUH.
Fixing printers isn't sexy, but selling you a new printer? Ooh la la, very very sexy.
For the record I don't own any Epson printers and I won't be buying any in the future, either.
Something like this needs legislation. (Score:2)
Boot Theory of Economics is way, way older than the books that named it. So I don't expect the market to step up here. meanwhile I pay for the externalized costs of hardware manufactures making disposable electronics. Climate change, dirty air in my cities, groundwater contamination, political and economic instability from 'cancer villiages',
not right (Score:2)
printers should only quit working when actually broken, not when someone thinks it should be broken.
Go laser (Score:2)
I donâ(TM)t print too often so ended up going with a laser printer.
I did spend a bit more for the printer, especially as a multifunctional, and I am limited to black and white, but at least toner doesnâ(TM)t dry out or get wasted when you havenâ(TM)t used the printer a few weeks. When I need the printer for copying or printing, then it is ready to go.
While colour is nice, I am hard pressed to find situations where I really need it. When I do need it, then an inkjet wouldnâ(TM)t cut it a
"Bricked" Epson printer -- Article itself is weak. (Score:1)
This article would be more helpful if the examples given had some numbers included, like original cost of the printer, and current replacement cost of the printer or nearest equivalent, number of pages printed, and the duration it was in service. [Actual dates allow for factoring in inflation.] Then most of the discussion could be more specific. For instance, I have seen that, since most printer companies make most of their profit from the supplies, they then usually offer the printer itself for a ridicu
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Re: Printers are the Spawn of Satan (Score:2)
Not sure what your budget is like but Brother sells some great color laser printers in the $300-500 range, and B&W ones for under $200. I've had two of their color laser printers and have loved both.
Most inkjet printers are a scam (Score:2)
I had Epson once in my family life (Score:1)