Siemens' New Home EV Charger Adapter Ends Need For Electrical Panel Upgrades (electrek.co) 159
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Electrek: Siemens and Philadelphia-based ConnectDER have partnered to debut a groundbreaking simple home EV charger connector. Previously, homeowners who wanted to install EV chargers might have had to spend thousands of dollars to modify their home's electrical panel. This new proprietary plug-in adapter will eliminate that cost and allow installation and connection in minutes. ConnectDER makes meter collars that are installed between the home's meter and the meter socket to create a single plug-and-play access point for distributed energy resources (DER) installation. In other words, the collars easily add new electrical service capacity for things like solar and energy storage. Now ConnectDER will exclusively manufacture and supply a proprietary plug-in EV charger adapter to Siemens.
The new adapter will enable electric car owners to charge their EVs by connecting chargers directly through the meter socket, which is on every home. It provides more useable capacity by monitoring total load and controlling the EV circuit to ensure the total capacity rating is within the limit. Bypassing the electrical panel reduces the EV charger installation cost by around 60 to 80% because electrical panel upgrades aren't needed. [...] Nearly half of US home electrical panels previously would have needed upgrades to allow the installation of a typical Level 2 charger, usually a 7-11kW device requiring 40-60 Amps on a 240V line. A Siemens spokesperson said that the company is still finalizing pricing, but "it will be a fraction of the cost of a service panel upgrade or other modifications often needed to make for a charger. Additionally, in some cases, the cost may be fully borne by utility programs."
The adapters themselves are expected to be available by first quarter 2023.
The new adapter will enable electric car owners to charge their EVs by connecting chargers directly through the meter socket, which is on every home. It provides more useable capacity by monitoring total load and controlling the EV circuit to ensure the total capacity rating is within the limit. Bypassing the electrical panel reduces the EV charger installation cost by around 60 to 80% because electrical panel upgrades aren't needed. [...] Nearly half of US home electrical panels previously would have needed upgrades to allow the installation of a typical Level 2 charger, usually a 7-11kW device requiring 40-60 Amps on a 240V line. A Siemens spokesperson said that the company is still finalizing pricing, but "it will be a fraction of the cost of a service panel upgrade or other modifications often needed to make for a charger. Additionally, in some cases, the cost may be fully borne by utility programs."
The adapters themselves are expected to be available by first quarter 2023.
Not going to save a dime (Score:3)
Instead of just installing a breaker and an outlet, now you have to have the meter pulled, this thing installed, the meter re-installed (which usually requires an inspector visit), plus a new heavy-gauge wire run outside. My meter is on the opposite side of my house from my garage, so that's going to be run a long way.
I'm also curious how this would pass code, since it is not protected by a breaker.
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But there's an important difference. Now instead of all that money going to a local electrical contractor, a significant part of that money will be going to Siemens.
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No, an electrician AND the utility now get paid.
Before it was only the electrician
And from TFA:
"The new adapter will enable electric car owners to charge their EVs by connecting chargers directly through the meter socket, which is on every home."
Uh... No it's not. It has to be installed. See comments above
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Uh, the meter socket (the thing the meter plugs into) is on every home.
Re:Not going to save a dime (Score:4, Informative)
The world is larger than just the US.
Think about that for a second the next time you ask a question that is heavily dependent on your location and local legal requirements.
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There are transfer switches for generators that can go between the meter and the wall. Those are definitely useful because it saves on adding a lot of wiring... at the minimum, a generator inlet. Having stuff go between the meter and the wall can save a lot of wiring. It doesn't fit all scenarios, but in some cases, it can be a useful addition, and relatively cheap compared to having a master electrician pull wires.
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There are transfer switches for generators that can go between the meter and the wall. Those are definitely useful because it saves on adding a lot of wiring... at the minimum, a generator inlet. Having stuff go between the meter and the wall can save a lot of wiring. It doesn't fit all scenarios, but in some cases, it can be a useful addition, and relatively cheap compared to having a master electrician pull wires.
I just found out about those. PG&E will give me one for free if I'm in a fire danger area which is prone to fire safety power shutdowns. I've looked into what it takes to install a conventional transfer switch and it's something like $2,000. The socket approach is much better.
("For free" actually means, of course, "paid for out of everyone's electric bills".)
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Apples and oranges thing to consider. The conventional transfer switch, if I'm interpreting that phrase correctly, is a large relay (contactor) and a 2nd breaker panel. It's done that way because most generators are not big enough to run the entire house. So you move critical circuits to the 2nd panel which will be powered up when the generator runs.
If you're switching at the meter, you're switching everything, and you'll need a generator that can supply the whole house, and that could be 30-40 KW. Most
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If you're switching at the meter, you're switching everything, and you'll need a generator that can supply the whole house, and that could be 30-40 KW.
If you use gas for cooking, heating, and water heat, sure. We got a 8kW generator and it ran the pump in a 160' well, shallow jet pump used to make pressure, fridge, freezer, two computers, lighting, and a window A/C... I could have run the master bedroom w/h on it too but the rest of the house was on LP and it was only for a week.
Re: Not going to save a dime (Score:2)
a significant part of that money will be going to Siemens.
And your electricity utility, since they own the meter you want to wedge this into...
Re:Not going to save a dime (Score:5, Interesting)
You could, I don't know, visit their website [connectder.com] to look at their product, rather than just announcing that "it is not protected by a breaker".
First picture shows an access port to a breaker.
Also, if your meter is on the opposite side of the house from your garage, odds are ANY run is going to have to go a long ways to reach your garage, unless they already did the long run with very heavy gauge wire, to put the main breaker panel in your garage. Which is possible, I've seen worse things out there.
Basically, this is a retrofit that would help somebody like me. I have a crappy already full (small number of ports) breaker panel for my service. I have another inside the house. It's also full(previous owner installed a lot of extra stuff).
In order to fix the problem of a too-small(slot wise, not amperage), I'd already need the meter pulled to replace the panel with a larger one, since they used a combo meter-breaker panel system. This reduces it to the tech coming out, pulling the meter, then while he's still there slapping this into place and putting the meter back on.
I will fully admit that it is situationally useful.
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It would work if it WAS a meter itself combined with a mini-panel. Meters do not have breakers. Sure there must be a breaker downstream from it so it's like a mini panel itself. Actually 2 breakers, one for charger and another for downstream causeway to the now-secondary panel. Although admittedly current connection from meter to panel is not protected either, so maybe only for the charger itself,
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> Sure there must be a breaker downstream from it so it's like a mini panel itself
There's a breaker built into it.
Also you only need one breaker, because you're allowed to have up to six disconnects in parallel downstream of the meter; So your existing main breaker would be one, and the breaker in this device protecting the circuit to the EVSE would be two.
This is literally a plug-and-play solution to avoid modifying your existing electrical service, which is a great option if your service is older and u
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"Just installing a breaker and an outlet" isn't quite that simple, two-pole and has to be GFCI breaker in areas using 2020+ electrical code or will fail inspection. 240v cable means four wires within, and all large copper like 8 gauge instead of the more common 12 or 14 for smaller amp circuits. Expensive, heavy and stiff, not an easy one to run. Ultimately you then either have to punch through to a garage or exterior wall to outside. Hiring an electrician is obviously recommended for those not familiar
Probably not actually using wires (Score:2)
Going by the picture of the thing, I think I'd be using bus bars, not wire, for the "wiring". If it doesn't have to bend, I don't think you even need to use copper, as the back plane of a lot of circuit breaker panels are aluminum alloy these days, and it is a lot cheaper.
As for it having to be GFCI - probably not, actually. GFCI is allowed to be connected downstream in most cases, and there are entire rafts of exceptions even in the 2020 code. I imagine a hard-wired car charger would be one of them.
I do
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The video on the ConnecDER site shows a solar panel worker pulling the meter off the box and installing the device, not a power company worker. The power company only has to show up to put their stamped seal back on the meter. There's only a few states where this device is accepted at all, though, it'll be a slow slog to get this device approved in 48-50 states.
Here in the California Bay Area, there's huge numbers of Zinsco and Federal Pacific electrical panels that have been recalled for major safety probl
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I don't see how it can. This seems like a solution for like a mobile home park, where modifying the trailer is not worth it.
If you have more typical 1 story rancher or 2 story house, you are better off having the electrical system installed and upgraded, just like you would if you were to have a hot tub, heated pool, or HVAC upgrade. Because you at least are going to put the outlets where they are supposed to be. This solution assumes your meter is outside your garage, and not outside your bedroom.
Of course
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> Instead of just installing a breaker and an outlet
This is specifically intended for situations where you CAN'T just install a breaker, because the existing electrical service/panel lacks sufficient capacity.
So this would not be used "Instead of just installing a breaker and an outlet" - it would be used "Instead of replacing the existing main panel with a newer one and possibly upgrading the service to the property"
So yeah, that is a significant cost savings.
Congrats on having a decent electrical servi
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"Instead of just installing a breaker and an outlet, now you have to have the meter pulled, this thing installed, the meter re-installed (which usually requires an inspector visit), plus a new heavy-gauge wire run outside. My meter is on the opposite side of my house from my garage, so that's going to be run a long way."
This is a terrible argument, made, I assume, by someone that's not terribly familiar with running electrical cables.
First of all, you have to run a cable and put on a socket in either case,
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I get that the breaker can be at the consumption of the feeder - BUT the code was not written for 2 physically separate consumption points from the meter.
Currently you have to have a single through for the main from the feeder at the consumption box OR the box must be a 6 throw or less..
Unless there is a single throw breaker on this sucker right between the meter and the box - this is basically providing two consumption points with the assumption that they in total don't overload the line coming in.
Now that
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We had a new panel put in and our service entry moved about 30 feet from the panel. We had to have a breaker installed outside by the meter before the run to the panel entered the house.
The old service entry was like 3 ft from the panel so there was no need for a breaker there, or that's how it was explained to me.
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Nope, the panel (with the main breaker) is in the garage. So there's already one run of heavy-gauge wire across the house, don't need another.
It looks like an expensive solution in search of a problem. A breaker, or even a sub-panel, is not that expensive. This thing, with special proprietary hookup and active monitoring, is going to cost more, so pitching it as a cost savings is dumb.
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The problem it solves is an old house with a 100 amp, or worse, a 60 amp service. Whether it solves the problem better than just replacing the service I don't know. How far is it from the service to the main breaker box? Does that wiring run travel through the walls of the house for a appreciable distance? If so, then maybe it does make sense.
I have a 30 amp 240 V circuit in the carport already. I would just need a level 2 connection I can dial back to that current draw. I'd have to tear up the wall in two
Tear up the walls? (Score:2)
You're unlikely to have to tear up the walls. A competent electrician should be able to do everything from the attic/subfloor area through a utility box cutout. Hell, a run of conduit ON the wall might be the thing to do.
I say "unlikely" because, well, don't know your exact situation, and there might be something that mandates a more extensive opening. But that need would be odd, rare, I think.
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I don't understand all the hate in this thread.
That is the way science and engineering work. Ideas need to stand up to scrutiny. New theories have to stand up to attempts to falsify them.
Ideas are a dime-a-dozen. If we embrace everything we hear, we will waste too much time on schemes that don't work out. To avoid that, the FIRST thing we do is try to shoot holes in the new idea. Criticize it mercilessly. Then, only after it stands up to that brutal assault, do we spend time giving it a fair evaluation.
If it is YOUR idea that is being torn apart lik
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Fair enough, but in science and engineering you damage your professional reputation by leveling completely irrelevant criticism.
Professional reputation? On Slashdot? Hee hee. You are funny.
"This is dumb because I already have a 200 amp panel in my garage" isn't scrutiny
Well, it is a legitimate point that most people don't need this device, although some people do.
I have a 200A hookup and my EV draws 30A, so it is no use to me. For someone with a 60A hookup, this device could be very useful.
Does complaining that it doesn't have a breaker when it does count as scrutiny?
I didn't see that in the summary, so it is a legitimate complaint. It is the job of the proponents to give full info.
The only legit criticism I've seen is that someone posted that their EV charger already monitors and adjusts the draw
Hee hee. That was me.
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There is no 'scrutiny' here, and any attempt to 'falsify' something seems to be built on a strawman - namely that this is presented as the optimal solution in all cases. When you build your 'criticism' on strawmen you look like an idiot. If you think there is a single valid criticism that applies to this idea in all use cases, lets hear it.
Re: Not going to save a dime (Score:3)
I like the idea that it automatically throttles the EV charging if the house load gets high though.
Can run the AC, Stove, and Dryer and it will throttle the car charger until one of those kicks off.
Seems like a great solution to me (assuming you have an older house without a high enough service).
That's how I read it anyway.
Re: Not going to save a dime (Score:5, Informative)
I like the idea that it automatically throttles the EV charging if the house load gets high though.
EVs already do that. So it is duplicating the functionality.
An EV starts by pulling a small current and then steps it up while monitoring the voltage. If the voltage drops significantly as the current draw increases, the EV will back off the current draw.
At least my EV does that. I assume others do as well since it is easy to do and costs almost nothing.
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Interesting, I didn't know my EV or charger were aware of the total current load being put on my service.
How do they do that? How does my charger know it can pull it's full 50amps now, not wait until my AC, stove, or dryer turn off?
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If the voltage starts to drop that indicates that the line is getting overloaded
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If the voltage starts to drop that indicates that the line is getting overloaded
That does not make sense. It's common for people to have a 6kVA subscription that is remotely upgradable to 9, 12 or more kVA. There is absolutely no reason for the voltage to drop when you get close to 6 kVA if your electrical installation is up to snuff. The only sign that you exceeded your subscription is going to be when the voltage drops to 0 because the circuit breaker tripped. Your EV will have a hard time charging after that.
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EVs already do that. So it is duplicating the functionality.
An EV starts by pulling a small current and then steps it up while monitoring the voltage. If the voltage drops significantly as the current draw increases, the EV will back off the current draw.
At least my EV does that. I assume others do as well since it is easy to do and costs almost nothing.
Voltage drop measures the resistance of the wire the EV is connected to not the current draw of the home.
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> EVs already do that. So it is duplicating the functionality.
They absolutely do NOT do this.
There is no way they can, how are they supposed to know what's turned on or off inside your house?
Yes, I have an EV and charge it at home.
Problem with possible rogue devices? (Score:4, Interesting)
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The wires from the utility are already in the meter box if you wanted to tap "unbilled" electricity. Mostly it's the deterrence of being sent to "federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison" for a very long time that prevents people from stealing electricity. If you ask me, it's a pretty good deterrence.
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as the owner of an EV with a 7kWh charger - i'd only save ~35$/month - not really worth the effort and risk of trying to modify something like this
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I'd argue that if you're clever enough to do this, you're probably clever enough to figure out a way to bypass the seal on the meter collar and hook up a bypass anyways.
For normal people, just toss another seal onto the rings - utility box to device gets a seal, and device to meter gets a seal. Done.
Re:Problem with possible rogue devices? (Score:4, Interesting)
No new risk, to the extent that will be possible, it already is. The same mechanisms used to deter that today would apply to installation of a collar such as this. Basically the power company will either own the installation of this device, or inspect afterward. Any surreptitious modification would be as tamper-evident either way, with or without this.
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As someone who has had meter replaced, then replaced again during a solar install and grid tie-in, the utility company doing meter work is really not some huge ordeal.
Further, it certainly isn't a DC charger, at *most* it would be integrated with an EVSE, but even then I suspect that the collar's role is to provide a place to wire in an EVSE or something like a NEMA 15-50 outlet. They have a collar today and basically all it does is provide parallel access to the metered side of the meter connection, with
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So the meter now needs to certified by the utility company
The meter gets certified by a certifying authority, whose whole job that is.
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I wouldn't worry about rogue devices. Power companies are pretty good about keeping the meter base secured as others have stated. What I'm thinking about is the ease of converting to a 'smart meter', with the EV adapter right there. Power company controls your charging schedule. Or a dual rate meter. Here's your home power and here's your EV power with an added highway tax.
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Many utilities have a "snitch" bounty program to deter power theft, but technology is also making utilities better at catching power thieves. I'm aware of machine learning being used to develop models that can detect unusual usage patterns in individual houses or on small grid branches, which gets those areas flagged for inspections. With all the smart grid upgrades it's becoming much easier to spot this stuff.
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Many utilities have a "snitch" bounty program to deter power theft, but technology is also making utilities better at catching power thieves. I'm aware of machine learning being used to develop models that can detect unusual usage patterns in individual houses or on small grid branches, which gets those areas flagged for inspections. With all the smart grid upgrades it's becoming much easier to spot this stuff.
Smart meters are the ultimate spy devices. They can disambiguate the usage of every distinct piece of of electrical gear in the home and even various operational modes of individual pieces of equipment.
Clearly not for every home (Score:2, Insightful)
Our meter is a remote panel next to the transformer. It is about 100' from where the car is parked. It's a cool idea, but not for every home.
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A Fraction of the Cost! (Score:2, Funny)
And by fraction, we mean 9/10ths.
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But it's still a fraction! Heck, 14/9 is also a fraction!
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Indeed, in my area this is likely closer to the truth, because our rules are designed by safety engineers,
I looked into it in my area. Parts were about $1,000, labor another $1k to $2k depending on who's quoting it. And I wind up with another panel on the outside of my house. This has got to be cheaper.
Am I the only one to think this is pretty clever? (Score:5, Interesting)
.
(It's sort of how VPN desktop software works, by "shimming the stack" and inserting themselves ahead of the other levels.)
In my (large, west coast US) city, pulling the meter can be done by the homeowner, and you can just call the utility to to tell them you did it and they will re-seal it. I'm not sure an inspection is even required, and since it's a smart/advanced meter (in communication with the mothership via cellular bursts), they already know you didn't have it off for long and aren't doing anything nefarious.
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pulling the meter can be done by the homeowner
Somewhere in heaven, Darwin is smiling.
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Yeah, not sure what all the hate is about. This is a clever solution. And this is Siemens, not some fly by night start-up. They have the right engineers, more so than the EE 'honorary' degrees /.'ers here seem to hold.
Pricing, sure we'll wait and see. Pulling your own meter, not for me. But a lot of the install cost is labor and basically paying a lessened electrician for 1 hour to screw this thing in is better than paying for 6-8 hours to have them add in a new panel, new sub breakers, etc.
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Pricing will make this or break this. If this is noticeably cheaper than "proper" installation, this will become popular.
Otherwise, not so much. This is likely why they aren't telling us what this will cost yet. Chances are, they're still doing the math on how much they can ask for and still get sales.
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Probably looking to settle deals with major electric companies. A lot of things like this end up having incentives from power companies, so they probably want to have some example incentives or at least partnerships to be able to point to to show how easy/feasible it is.
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I agree. I think the thing that people are skeptical about is that it *looks* too easy. Why all of a sudden is this a thing, it looks so simple surely this would have been a thing sooner?
However, as you state, this is Siemens, who is well known for equipment in this field, so they aren't stupid/naive about how home power supply works. Further, the cited partner ConnectDER already has a product on the market, a meter collar for easier solar tie-in. So it's seemingly a proven strategy that has worked.
Re: Am I the only one to think this is pretty clev (Score:2)
In my (large, west coast US) city, pulling the meter can be done by the homeowner, and you can just call the utility to to tell them you did it and they will re-seal it. I'm not sure an inspection is even required, and since it's a smart/advanced meter (in communication with the mothership via cellular bursts), they already know you didn't have it off for long and aren't doing anything nefarious.
Please, tell me more about this utility company that is OK with their customers tampering with their (revenue producing) infrastructure!
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They're not especially okay with it, and might charge you a fee for reconnecting it, but keep in mind that they don't get to sell you power until the meter is back in place. Ergo, replacing the meter is pretty standard.
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Sure they have cleared it though the building codes. But yea in certain (perhaps many - enough to design and build it) it could work to the benefit. In many others it does not, but that's OK.
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Can someone explain why it's even needed though?
In the UK the house will typically have a 100A supply at 240V, and if you want a charger you either just fit it as normal (max being 32A) or you fit a balancing device that splits it with some other high power device like an electric shower or cooker.
I understand the set up is different in the US, you usually have at least two phases coming in to provide 240V to some appliances. But what's the limiting factor here, the fuse in the meter?
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I understand the set up is different in the US
There is the answer to your question
Can someone explain why it's even needed though?
I don't understand TFS at all (Score:2)
Usually the breaker box
Re:I don't understand TFS at all (Score:5, Informative)
Sure, they might be equal, but very often the feed (since it's hanging in the air and so doesn't have conduit heating de-rating to worry about) can handle much more amperage than the panel it's attached to. A 200A service feed is common in many US residential areas - yours might be different, however.
Re:I don't understand TFS at all (Score:5, Informative)
Usually the breaker panel is matched to the electrical service. If you have 100amp service, you have a 100amp panel. With 200amp service, you have a 200amp panel. A house with 100amp service will have difficulty charging an EV while simultaneously running the air conditioner.
The article says:
It provides more useable capacity by monitoring total load and controlling the EV circuit to ensure the total capacity rating is within the limit
Sounds like the device monitors total electrical load and limits the current to the EV circuit if the draw when combined with the rest of the house would exceed the feed capacity to the meter. (I am speculating that) the device also could meter the EV load separately and well as perform load shedding in times of extreme grid load.
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Sounds like the device monitors total electrical load and limits the current to the EV circuit if the draw when combined with the rest of the house would exceed the feed capacity to the meter. (I am speculating that) the device also could meter the EV load separately and well as perform load shedding in times of extreme grid load.
That part sounds like a great idea. I'd like to think you could achieve this using breakers with sensors that fit into a normal breaker box. If you have to EVs/PHEVs I could see blown circuits happening often enough to be frustrating.
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If you already have 200A sub-panel you are OK. But if you just upgraded the service from 100A to 200A likely your sub panel is 100A and if it's remote from meter the cable burred in walls it too. So worthless. This allows you to have hi current charger without reworking your sub-panel.
However, when my service was upgraded, they simply installed a meter box with a sub-panel and just hooked up existing sub via 100A. So not I have 40+ space right by the meter.
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A breaker box may only cost "a few hundred," it's installing it that will cost you plenty!
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Usually the breaker boxes are in the garage near the meter. So I am scratching my head here.
I don't know what percentage of electrical panels (they are not called breaker boxes, we can already see you're scratching your head in confusion) are installed in garages, but IME only a tiny minority are. The vast majority are installed outside, where they can be accessed by the utility company, a holdover from the time when they had to come to your house to read your meter and if it was inside you would have to be there and let them in to read it... or supply them with a key to your garage. Neither is a
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How convenient! (Score:2)
-one size fits some, maybe
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All I have to do is install one of these, then drive through my front yard to the rear side of the house completely opposite of the driveway and garage!
At least you had a garage. We had to park our EV in paper bag in the middle of the road.
Seriously, I really wonder how this is supposed to work for people who don't have a garage to park their cars in. In my neck of the woods most people fill their garages with junk, teenager's bands, workshops, boats, and everything else. I bet something like 80% of cars are parked on a driveway or on the street. I don't really want to drag a charging cable out there.
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My parents home has a gravel driveway with a pad basically *right* next to their meters, by happy accident.
If people don't want to use their garages cas, then I guess they won't use their garages for cars. However I have seen people with cluttered garages go to town cleaning and discarding when they get a nice car, so it would seem sometimes people decide it's worth it to use their garage for cars.
Even in the driveway, that's not a terrible place. For me that's maybe a 30 foot run of cable to the meter, an
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I really wonder how this is supposed to work for people who don't have a garage to park their cars in.
I have seen a bunch of chargers installed on the outside wall next to the garage door now. A quick glance over the problem suggests that if you don't put the charger inside the garage, literally the only place left is outside the garage. I suspect that's how that works. In our next adventure, we will get out the shape blocks, and you can see whether it works better to put the square block through the round hole, or through the square one.
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I bet something like 80% of cars are parked on a driveway or on the street. I don't really want to drag a charging cable out there.
Plugging in a cable to an outdoor socket and charging your car in the drive beats driving to a gas station.
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Well, if you're nice to me I'll sell you a cable and professional installation. :)
As others have commented, your breaker panel is most likely near your meter, so you'd need a cable from your breaker panel to the garage or wherever you park anyway. Outdoor cable isn't a big deal, and it's even possible to run the cable through the house. Could be THHN in conduit if someone wants and/or if local code would demand it. If basement is finished it will get complicated, but not impossible.
My take (Score:2)
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Charging until we crack lithium air batteries is going to be one of the main "so much worse" aspects of EV compared to ICE powered vehicle. There are others like extreme upfront cost, certain housing requirements for overnight charging and so on.
That's why they're for a small minority of people. But for those people, they're very good.
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I recently had to drive 250 miles to another city to catch a flight. How am I supposed to plan that with an EV charge along the way? Do
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I recently had to drive 250 miles to another city to catch a flight. How am I supposed to plan that with an EV charge along the way?
Even Texas is saying they're gonna take Biden's money for building interstate charging stations, despite loving to talk about how independent they are
Utillities (Score:3)
I can't imagine any utility company is going to be happy about a 3rd party device stuck in the middle of their power meter-- you know, the source of their revenue.
I would think this would border on meter tampering according to most local utility laws.
Re: (Score:2)
It's obvious that the utility company would have to be involved in the installation process, just like they are for PV system interconnect, and just as they would be involved with the usage of ConnectDER's existing meter collar.
This isn't a hugely unprecedented thing, power companies are quite used to being involved with electricians mucking about in the meter neck of the woods. You may never have availed yourself of such service, but it's pretty common for the power companies.
Marketing hyperbole at work here. (Score:2)
They make it sound like every house will need to have a very costly upgrade in order to install an EVSE. So far from true. I live in an older house (over 100 years) with the last major upgrade in the 1980's and yet I was able to add my EVSE by just changing the 240V outlet to the right configuration.
Additionally, how poorly edited was the Electrek article that it continuously refers to EV Chargers, when they should darn well know that people tend to install Electric Vehicle Service Equipment which do not
Re: (Score:2)
It would be more interesting if... (Score:3)
Interesting product, concept not new (Score:2)
It is a clever idea but the concept isn't new. There's already a number of EVSEs that can do that using CT clamps to monitor usage so that the total draw from the house doesn't overload your connection to the grid.
They can also monitor your solar power generation and tell the car to charge instead of feeding back to the grid, plan charging based on hourly prices.
IIRC in the UK there are EVSEs like Zappi and hypervolt that can do that.
Personally I am considering using an app called True Energy that can use
"proprietary" (Score:2)
"Now ConnectDER will exclusively manufacture and supply a proprietary plug-in EV charger adapter to Siemens."
Not going to change the world with an ecosystem that's scuppered by design.
Re: (Score:2)
It's a proprietary *adapter*, meaning the other end is suitable for either hardwiring an EVSE or terminating in a NEMA 15-50.
Basically, they have a 'socket on collar' that isn't standardized, but I don't think there exists an appropriate standard for that application anyway, and it looks like it would become normal wires for connecting equipment quickly. Basically the choices are either selling it as one hard wired piece (meaning cable damage requires contacting your utility company to be part of the repai
You don't need that much power (Score:2)
As an EV owner, all you need is 2 kW to charge your car overnight. 7-11 kW is total overkill. You have a good 10 h a day at home on an average day, which means 20 kWh of charge, with which you can easily drive 100 km - and you can let that accumulate over multiple days if the battery is larger (which it usually is) to account for days you go out for dinner or to the movies or whatever.
You may have an especially long commute so you could consider upgrading to 3 kW, but no one needs a home charger in the 7-11
Still not a homeowner DIY (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
That's like being baffled by seemingly medieval electric socket in Germany compared to UK one. Different countries prioritize different things.
Re: (Score:2)
> The actual cost to put in a 240v 14-50 outlet is under $500 and very straightforward
Okay, but what happens if your existing electrical panel can't accommodate a new 50-amp/2 pole breaker (which would be a 40-amp draw)? A new electrical panel is neither cheap nor always that straightforward.
=Smidge=