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Power

Siemens' New Home EV Charger Adapter Ends Need For Electrical Panel Upgrades (electrek.co) 159

Posted by BeauHD from the cost-saving dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Electrek: Siemens and Philadelphia-based ConnectDER have partnered to debut a groundbreaking simple home EV charger connector. Previously, homeowners who wanted to install EV chargers might have had to spend thousands of dollars to modify their home's electrical panel. This new proprietary plug-in adapter will eliminate that cost and allow installation and connection in minutes. ConnectDER makes meter collars that are installed between the home's meter and the meter socket to create a single plug-and-play access point for distributed energy resources (DER) installation. In other words, the collars easily add new electrical service capacity for things like solar and energy storage. Now ConnectDER will exclusively manufacture and supply a proprietary plug-in EV charger adapter to Siemens.

The new adapter will enable electric car owners to charge their EVs by connecting chargers directly through the meter socket, which is on every home. It provides more useable capacity by monitoring total load and controlling the EV circuit to ensure the total capacity rating is within the limit. Bypassing the electrical panel reduces the EV charger installation cost by around 60 to 80% because electrical panel upgrades aren't needed. [...] Nearly half of US home electrical panels previously would have needed upgrades to allow the installation of a typical Level 2 charger, usually a 7-11kW device requiring 40-60 Amps on a 240V line. A Siemens spokesperson said that the company is still finalizing pricing, but "it will be a fraction of the cost of a service panel upgrade or other modifications often needed to make for a charger. Additionally, in some cases, the cost may be fully borne by utility programs."

The adapters themselves are expected to be available by first quarter 2023.
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Siemens' New Home EV Charger Adapter Ends Need For Electrical Panel Upgrades More

Siemens' New Home EV Charger Adapter Ends Need For Electrical Panel Upgrades

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  • Not going to save a dime (Score:3)

    by Burdell ( 228580 ) on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @07:08PM (#62739814)

    Instead of just installing a breaker and an outlet, now you have to have the meter pulled, this thing installed, the meter re-installed (which usually requires an inspector visit), plus a new heavy-gauge wire run outside. My meter is on the opposite side of my house from my garage, so that's going to be run a long way.

    I'm also curious how this would pass code, since it is not protected by a breaker.

    • But there's an important difference. Now instead of all that money going to a local electrical contractor, a significant part of that money will be going to Siemens.

      • No, an electrician AND the utility now get paid.
        Before it was only the electrician

        And from TFA:

        "The new adapter will enable electric car owners to charge their EVs by connecting chargers directly through the meter socket, which is on every home."

        Uh... No it's not. It has to be installed. See comments above

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by bws111 ( 1216812 )

          Uh, the meter socket (the thing the meter plugs into) is on every home.

        • Re:Not going to save a dime (Score:4, Informative)

          by Richard_at_work ( 517087 ) on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @07:51PM (#62739918)

          The world is larger than just the US.

          Think about that for a second the next time you ask a question that is heavily dependent on your location and local legal requirements.

        • There are transfer switches for generators that can go between the meter and the wall. Those are definitely useful because it saves on adding a lot of wiring... at the minimum, a generator inlet. Having stuff go between the meter and the wall can save a lot of wiring. It doesn't fit all scenarios, but in some cases, it can be a useful addition, and relatively cheap compared to having a master electrician pull wires.

          • There are transfer switches for generators that can go between the meter and the wall. Those are definitely useful because it saves on adding a lot of wiring... at the minimum, a generator inlet. Having stuff go between the meter and the wall can save a lot of wiring. It doesn't fit all scenarios, but in some cases, it can be a useful addition, and relatively cheap compared to having a master electrician pull wires.

            I just found out about those. PG&E will give me one for free if I'm in a fire danger area which is prone to fire safety power shutdowns. I've looked into what it takes to install a conventional transfer switch and it's something like $2,000. The socket approach is much better.

            ("For free" actually means, of course, "paid for out of everyone's electric bills".)

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by bobby ( 109046 )

              Apples and oranges thing to consider. The conventional transfer switch, if I'm interpreting that phrase correctly, is a large relay (contactor) and a 2nd breaker panel. It's done that way because most generators are not big enough to run the entire house. So you move critical circuits to the 2nd panel which will be powered up when the generator runs.

              If you're switching at the meter, you're switching everything, and you'll need a generator that can supply the whole house, and that could be 30-40 KW. Most

              • If you're switching at the meter, you're switching everything, and you'll need a generator that can supply the whole house, and that could be 30-40 KW.

                If you use gas for cooking, heating, and water heat, sure. We got a 8kW generator and it ran the pump in a 160' well, shallow jet pump used to make pressure, fridge, freezer, two computers, lighting, and a window A/C... I could have run the master bedroom w/h on it too but the rest of the house was on LP and it was only for a week.

      • a significant part of that money will be going to Siemens.

        And your electricity utility, since they own the meter you want to wedge this into...

    • Re:Not going to save a dime (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Firethorn ( 177587 ) on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @08:27PM (#62739966) Homepage Journal

      You could, I don't know, visit their website [connectder.com] to look at their product, rather than just announcing that "it is not protected by a breaker".

      First picture shows an access port to a breaker.

      Also, if your meter is on the opposite side of the house from your garage, odds are ANY run is going to have to go a long ways to reach your garage, unless they already did the long run with very heavy gauge wire, to put the main breaker panel in your garage. Which is possible, I've seen worse things out there.

      Basically, this is a retrofit that would help somebody like me. I have a crappy already full (small number of ports) breaker panel for my service. I have another inside the house. It's also full(previous owner installed a lot of extra stuff).

      In order to fix the problem of a too-small(slot wise, not amperage), I'd already need the meter pulled to replace the panel with a larger one, since they used a combo meter-breaker panel system. This reduces it to the tech coming out, pulling the meter, then while he's still there slapping this into place and putting the meter back on.

      I will fully admit that it is situationally useful.

    • It would work if it WAS a meter itself combined with a mini-panel. Meters do not have breakers. Sure there must be a breaker downstream from it so it's like a mini panel itself. Actually 2 breakers, one for charger and another for downstream causeway to the now-secondary panel. Although admittedly current connection from meter to panel is not protected either, so maybe only for the charger itself,

      • > Sure there must be a breaker downstream from it so it's like a mini panel itself

        There's a breaker built into it.

        Also you only need one breaker, because you're allowed to have up to six disconnects in parallel downstream of the meter; So your existing main breaker would be one, and the breaker in this device protecting the circuit to the EVSE would be two.

        This is literally a plug-and-play solution to avoid modifying your existing electrical service, which is a great option if your service is older and u

    • Good question. Generac came up with a collar transfer switch that would allow a standby generator to be connected to your house without hardwiring a new transfer switch. Same principle as this. I don't think it ever took off because it would have to be approved in nearly every community that had their own electrical code.

    • "Just installing a breaker and an outlet" isn't quite that simple, two-pole and has to be GFCI breaker in areas using 2020+ electrical code or will fail inspection. 240v cable means four wires within, and all large copper like 8 gauge instead of the more common 12 or 14 for smaller amp circuits. Expensive, heavy and stiff, not an easy one to run. Ultimately you then either have to punch through to a garage or exterior wall to outside. Hiring an electrician is obviously recommended for those not familiar

      • Going by the picture of the thing, I think I'd be using bus bars, not wire, for the "wiring". If it doesn't have to bend, I don't think you even need to use copper, as the back plane of a lot of circuit breaker panels are aluminum alloy these days, and it is a lot cheaper.

        As for it having to be GFCI - probably not, actually. GFCI is allowed to be connected downstream in most cases, and there are entire rafts of exceptions even in the 2020 code. I imagine a hard-wired car charger would be one of them.

        I do

      • The video on the ConnecDER site shows a solar panel worker pulling the meter off the box and installing the device, not a power company worker. The power company only has to show up to put their stamped seal back on the meter. There's only a few states where this device is accepted at all, though, it'll be a slow slog to get this device approved in 48-50 states.

        Here in the California Bay Area, there's huge numbers of Zinsco and Federal Pacific electrical panels that have been recalled for major safety probl

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Kisai ( 213879 )

      I don't see how it can. This seems like a solution for like a mobile home park, where modifying the trailer is not worth it.

      If you have more typical 1 story rancher or 2 story house, you are better off having the electrical system installed and upgraded, just like you would if you were to have a hot tub, heated pool, or HVAC upgrade. Because you at least are going to put the outlets where they are supposed to be. This solution assumes your meter is outside your garage, and not outside your bedroom.

      Of course

    • > Instead of just installing a breaker and an outlet

      This is specifically intended for situations where you CAN'T just install a breaker, because the existing electrical service/panel lacks sufficient capacity.

      So this would not be used "Instead of just installing a breaker and an outlet" - it would be used "Instead of replacing the existing main panel with a newer one and possibly upgrading the service to the property"

      So yeah, that is a significant cost savings.

      Congrats on having a decent electrical servi

    • "Instead of just installing a breaker and an outlet, now you have to have the meter pulled, this thing installed, the meter re-installed (which usually requires an inspector visit), plus a new heavy-gauge wire run outside. My meter is on the opposite side of my house from my garage, so that's going to be run a long way."

      This is a terrible argument, made, I assume, by someone that's not terribly familiar with running electrical cables.

      First of all, you have to run a cable and put on a socket in either case,

  • Problem with possible rogue devices? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by misnohmer ( 1636461 ) on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @07:11PM (#62739826)
    I know it is not designed to be one, but where it installs it has access to both metered and unmetered power (connection before the meter), so it could be modified to bypass the meter. I can see someone modifying the charger before giving it to the utility company to install, then using free power. The only way to prevent that is to make the car charger owned by utility, just like the meter, with utility company seals preventing user/owner maintenance, but now they get to own its maintenance. Of course it could become a good new revenue source, charge monthly for having the charger installed, plus utility company can add smarts in there to limit charging during peak demands times to balance the grid better.
    • High level of danger, though, to hack one of those things. If the hacker screws up, they'll expose themselves to an effectively unlimited amount of current.
      • Neh. You will be able top buy already hacked devices off the internet, or follow online instructions how to modify it when not connected, then give it to the utility electrician to install (since they usually have to install anything up to and including the meter). After installation, you are not going to get electrocuted by connecting to the hacked device via WiFi for example to enable the unmetered bypass.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Powercntrl ( 458442 )

      The wires from the utility are already in the meter box if you wanted to tap "unbilled" electricity. Mostly it's the deterrence of being sent to "federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison" for a very long time that prevents people from stealing electricity. If you ask me, it's a pretty good deterrence.

      • That's why the meter box has an official seal and is owned by the utility company. You as an owner don't have access to unbilled electricity. If this DC charger is serviceable and/or provided by third party, it now provides a tap to unbilled electricity, along with a path to inject it to the billed path bypassing the meter completely (so not just car charging, any electricity usage for free). Of course such a bypass would have to be done cleverly so that you don't end up with zero usage every month, but tha

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Amouth ( 879122 )

      as the owner of an EV with a 7kWh charger - i'd only save ~35$/month - not really worth the effort and risk of trying to modify something like this

      • Actually, because this charger connects both before and after the meter, if you are cleaver, you can modify this car charger to bypass the meter for general usage in the home, not just car charging (simply provide a path for current to flow through the DC charger instead of the meter).

        • I'd argue that if you're clever enough to do this, you're probably clever enough to figure out a way to bypass the seal on the meter collar and hook up a bypass anyways.

          For normal people, just toss another seal onto the rings - utility box to device gets a seal, and device to meter gets a seal. Done.

    • Re:Problem with possible rogue devices? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Junta ( 36770 ) on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @07:57PM (#62739924)

      No new risk, to the extent that will be possible, it already is. The same mechanisms used to deter that today would apply to installation of a collar such as this. Basically the power company will either own the installation of this device, or inspect afterward. Any surreptitious modification would be as tamper-evident either way, with or without this.

      • So the meter now needs to certified by the utility company, and they would need to train their people to be able to spot modifications, which can be very challenging. With the meters, the utility company provides them and owns them, hence they control them. This DC charger I presume would be provided by the homeowner, so the utility company has a lot less control over any modification prior to installation. It would similar to the homeowner providing their own brand of electrical meter, which I'm sure most

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Junta ( 36770 )

          As someone who has had meter replaced, then replaced again during a solar install and grid tie-in, the utility company doing meter work is really not some huge ordeal.

          Further, it certainly isn't a DC charger, at *most* it would be integrated with an EVSE, but even then I suspect that the collar's role is to provide a place to wire in an EVSE or something like a NEMA 15-50 outlet. They have a collar today and basically all it does is provide parallel access to the metered side of the meter connection, with

        • So the meter now needs to certified by the utility company

          The meter gets certified by a certifying authority, whose whole job that is.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by PPH ( 736903 )

      I wouldn't worry about rogue devices. Power companies are pretty good about keeping the meter base secured as others have stated. What I'm thinking about is the ease of converting to a 'smart meter', with the EV adapter right there. Power company controls your charging schedule. Or a dual rate meter. Here's your home power and here's your EV power with an added highway tax.

      • Power companies are pretty good at keeping the meter base secured because they provide and own the meters. They don't allow homeowners to install 3rd party meters of their choice or design. This car charger is a 3rd party device which has access to both unmetered and metered electricity, which means if modified properly, it can provide path for electricity to bypass the meter. As I said in the original post, the only way this works if this DC charger is provided and owned by the utility company, same as the

    • Many utilities have a "snitch" bounty program to deter power theft, but technology is also making utilities better at catching power thieves. I'm aware of machine learning being used to develop models that can detect unusual usage patterns in individual houses or on small grid branches, which gets those areas flagged for inspections. With all the smart grid upgrades it's becoming much easier to spot this stuff.

      • Many utilities have a "snitch" bounty program to deter power theft, but technology is also making utilities better at catching power thieves. I'm aware of machine learning being used to develop models that can detect unusual usage patterns in individual houses or on small grid branches, which gets those areas flagged for inspections. With all the smart grid upgrades it's becoming much easier to spot this stuff.

        Smart meters are the ultimate spy devices. They can disambiguate the usage of every distinct piece of of electrical gear in the home and even various operational modes of individual pieces of equipment.

  • Our meter is a remote panel next to the transformer. It is about 100' from where the car is parked. It's a cool idea, but not for every home.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Don't be silly. This is Slashdot - if some new gadget doesn't satisfy every conceivable use case, the only reasonable thing to do is shit all over the idea regardless of its merits.

  • And by fraction, we mean 9/10ths.

    • But it's still a fraction! Heck, 14/9 is also a fraction!

  • Am I the only one to think this is pretty clever? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by thatseattleguy ( 897282 ) on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @07:40PM (#62739892) Homepage
    Lots of negativity here, and some of it's probably warranted, but still: am I the only one to think this is a pretty clever hack on Siemen's part? Bypass the panel entirely by getting into the wiring ahead of it.

    .
    (It's sort of how VPN desktop software works, by "shimming the stack" and inserting themselves ahead of the other levels.)

    In my (large, west coast US) city, pulling the meter can be done by the homeowner, and you can just call the utility to to tell them you did it and they will re-seal it. I'm not sure an inspection is even required, and since it's a smart/advanced meter (in communication with the mothership via cellular bursts), they already know you didn't have it off for long and aren't doing anything nefarious.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by PPH ( 736903 )

      pulling the meter can be done by the homeowner

      Somewhere in heaven, Darwin is smiling.

    • Yeah, not sure what all the hate is about. This is a clever solution. And this is Siemens, not some fly by night start-up. They have the right engineers, more so than the EE 'honorary' degrees /.'ers here seem to hold.

      Pricing, sure we'll wait and see. Pulling your own meter, not for me. But a lot of the install cost is labor and basically paying a lessened electrician for 1 hour to screw this thing in is better than paying for 6-8 hours to have them add in a new panel, new sub breakers, etc.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

        Pricing will make this or break this. If this is noticeably cheaper than "proper" installation, this will become popular.

        Otherwise, not so much. This is likely why they aren't telling us what this will cost yet. Chances are, they're still doing the math on how much they can ask for and still get sales.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Junta ( 36770 )

          Probably looking to settle deals with major electric companies. A lot of things like this end up having incentives from power companies, so they probably want to have some example incentives or at least partnerships to be able to point to to show how easy/feasible it is.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Junta ( 36770 )

        I agree. I think the thing that people are skeptical about is that it *looks* too easy. Why all of a sudden is this a thing, it looks so simple surely this would have been a thing sooner?

        However, as you state, this is Siemens, who is well known for equipment in this field, so they aren't stupid/naive about how home power supply works. Further, the cited partner ConnectDER already has a product on the market, a meter collar for easier solar tie-in. So it's seemingly a proven strategy that has worked.

    • In my (large, west coast US) city, pulling the meter can be done by the homeowner, and you can just call the utility to to tell them you did it and they will re-seal it. I'm not sure an inspection is even required, and since it's a smart/advanced meter (in communication with the mothership via cellular bursts), they already know you didn't have it off for long and aren't doing anything nefarious.

      Please, tell me more about this utility company that is OK with their customers tampering with their (revenue producing) infrastructure!

      • They're not especially okay with it, and might charge you a fee for reconnecting it, but keep in mind that they don't get to sell you power until the meter is back in place. Ergo, replacing the meter is pretty standard.

    • Sure they have cleared it though the building codes. But yea in certain (perhaps many - enough to design and build it) it could work to the benefit. In many others it does not, but that's OK.

    • In your city, can you open the meter, install a 3rd party device before the meter (be it this charger or any other device you can dream up), then just call the utility company to come and seal it again? Or do you think they would have a problem with a third party device they did not provide being installed on the unbilled side of the meter?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Can someone explain why it's even needed though?

      In the UK the house will typically have a 100A supply at 240V, and if you want a charger you either just fit it as normal (max being 32A) or you fit a balancing device that splits it with some other high power device like an electric shower or cooker.

      I understand the set up is different in the US, you usually have at least two phases coming in to provide 240V to some appliances. But what's the limiting factor here, the fuse in the meter?

      • I understand the set up is different in the US

        There is the answer to your question

        Can someone explain why it's even needed though?

  • Usually the breaker panel is matched to the electrical service. If you have 100amp service, you have a 100amp panel. With 200amp service, you have a 200amp panel. A house with 100amp service will have difficulty charging an EV while simultaneously running the air conditioner. With 200amp service, you will have plenty of capacity. If they mean physical room in the box, I believe the boxes are only a few hundred dollars. Probably a pretty penny for an electrician to install it.

    Usually the breaker box

    • Re:I don't understand TFS at all (Score:5, Informative)

      by thatseattleguy ( 897282 ) on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @07:48PM (#62739908) Homepage
      Total amperage capacity of panel != capacity of service feed ("drop line") to the home. If this device is coming in ahead of the 100A panel, it doesn't contribute to that capacity - it's solely determined by the total capacity of the feed itself.

      Sure, they might be equal, but very often the feed (since it's hanging in the air and so doesn't have conduit heating de-rating to worry about) can handle much more amperage than the panel it's attached to. A 200A service feed is common in many US residential areas - yours might be different, however.

    • Re:I don't understand TFS at all (Score:5, Informative)

      by Nkwe ( 604125 ) on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @07:55PM (#62739922)

      Usually the breaker panel is matched to the electrical service. If you have 100amp service, you have a 100amp panel. With 200amp service, you have a 200amp panel. A house with 100amp service will have difficulty charging an EV while simultaneously running the air conditioner.

      The article says:

      It provides more useable capacity by monitoring total load and controlling the EV circuit to ensure the total capacity rating is within the limit

      Sounds like the device monitors total electrical load and limits the current to the EV circuit if the draw when combined with the rest of the house would exceed the feed capacity to the meter. (I am speculating that) the device also could meter the EV load separately and well as perform load shedding in times of extreme grid load.

      • Sounds like the device monitors total electrical load and limits the current to the EV circuit if the draw when combined with the rest of the house would exceed the feed capacity to the meter. (I am speculating that) the device also could meter the EV load separately and well as perform load shedding in times of extreme grid load.

        That part sounds like a great idea. I'd like to think you could achieve this using breakers with sensors that fit into a normal breaker box. If you have to EVs/PHEVs I could see blown circuits happening often enough to be frustrating.

    • If you already have 200A sub-panel you are OK. But if you just upgraded the service from 100A to 200A likely your sub panel is 100A and if it's remote from meter the cable burred in walls it too. So worthless. This allows you to have hi current charger without reworking your sub-panel.
      However, when my service was upgraded, they simply installed a meter box with a sub-panel and just hooked up existing sub via 100A. So not I have 40+ space right by the meter.

    • A breaker box may only cost "a few hundred," it's installing it that will cost you plenty!

    • Usually the breaker boxes are in the garage near the meter. So I am scratching my head here.

      I don't know what percentage of electrical panels (they are not called breaker boxes, we can already see you're scratching your head in confusion) are installed in garages, but IME only a tiny minority are. The vast majority are installed outside, where they can be accessed by the utility company, a holdover from the time when they had to come to your house to read your meter and if it was inside you would have to be there and let them in to read it... or supply them with a key to your garage. Neither is a

      • I believe you although I've (thankfully) neve seen this or had a home that was setup this way. If the individual breakers (and GFIs) are outside, this would mean that whenever one tripped, you would have to go out in the elements to check and reset it. When I've lived in northern climates, the panel was always in the basement. In some cases, the meter was also located in the basement and, yes, I had to let the meter reader come inside. In other northern-climate houses, the meter was on the outside so th
  • All I have to do is install one of these, then drive through my front yard to the rear side of the house completely opposite of the driveway and garage!

    -one size fits some, maybe

    • All I have to do is install one of these, then drive through my front yard to the rear side of the house completely opposite of the driveway and garage!

      At least you had a garage. We had to park our EV in paper bag in the middle of the road.

      Seriously, I really wonder how this is supposed to work for people who don't have a garage to park their cars in. In my neck of the woods most people fill their garages with junk, teenager's bands, workshops, boats, and everything else. I bet something like 80% of cars are parked on a driveway or on the street. I don't really want to drag a charging cable out there.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Junta ( 36770 )

        My parents home has a gravel driveway with a pad basically *right* next to their meters, by happy accident.

        If people don't want to use their garages cas, then I guess they won't use their garages for cars. However I have seen people with cluttered garages go to town cleaning and discarding when they get a nice car, so it would seem sometimes people decide it's worth it to use their garage for cars.

        Even in the driveway, that's not a terrible place. For me that's maybe a 30 foot run of cable to the meter, an

      • I really wonder how this is supposed to work for people who don't have a garage to park their cars in.

        I have seen a bunch of chargers installed on the outside wall next to the garage door now. A quick glance over the problem suggests that if you don't put the charger inside the garage, literally the only place left is outside the garage. I suspect that's how that works. In our next adventure, we will get out the shape blocks, and you can see whether it works better to put the square block through the round hole, or through the square one.

      • I bet something like 80% of cars are parked on a driveway or on the street. I don't really want to drag a charging cable out there.

        Plugging in a cable to an outdoor socket and charging your car in the drive beats driving to a gas station.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by bobby ( 109046 )

      Well, if you're nice to me I'll sell you a cable and professional installation. :)

      As others have commented, your breaker panel is most likely near your meter, so you'd need a cable from your breaker panel to the garage or wherever you park anyway. Outdoor cable isn't a big deal, and it's even possible to run the cable through the house. Could be THHN in conduit if someone wants and/or if local code would demand it. If basement is finished it will get complicated, but not impossible.

  • Wow, after reading all of this I want an EV even less. Seems a lot more complicated than stopping by the gas station for ten minutes every couple weeks. Especially if you have two or three people in the same home with cars.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      Charging until we crack lithium air batteries is going to be one of the main "so much worse" aspects of EV compared to ICE powered vehicle. There are others like extreme upfront cost, certain housing requirements for overnight charging and so on.

      That's why they're for a small minority of people. But for those people, they're very good.

  • Utillities (Score:3)

    by ufgrat ( 6245202 ) on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @09:40PM (#62740086)

    I can't imagine any utility company is going to be happy about a 3rd party device stuck in the middle of their power meter-- you know, the source of their revenue.

    I would think this would border on meter tampering according to most local utility laws.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Junta ( 36770 )

      It's obvious that the utility company would have to be involved in the installation process, just like they are for PV system interconnect, and just as they would be involved with the usage of ConnectDER's existing meter collar.

      This isn't a hugely unprecedented thing, power companies are quite used to being involved with electricians mucking about in the meter neck of the woods. You may never have availed yourself of such service, but it's pretty common for the power companies.

  • They make it sound like every house will need to have a very costly upgrade in order to install an EVSE. So far from true. I live in an older house (over 100 years) with the last major upgrade in the 1980's and yet I was able to add my EVSE by just changing the 240V outlet to the right configuration.

    Additionally, how poorly edited was the Electrek article that it continuously refers to EV Chargers, when they should darn well know that people tend to install Electric Vehicle Service Equipment which do not

    • In my experience at multiple houses, installing a L2 charger on a 100 amp panel means 'don't do washing, drying, baking, air conditioning and charge the car all at the same time.'

  • It would be more interesting if... (Score:3)

    by LordHighExecutioner ( 4245243 ) on Thursday July 28, 2022 @01:12AM (#62740388)
    ...it could be installed before home's meter!

  • It is a clever idea but the concept isn't new. There's already a number of EVSEs that can do that using CT clamps to monitor usage so that the total draw from the house doesn't overload your connection to the grid.
    They can also monitor your solar power generation and tell the car to charge instead of feeding back to the grid, plan charging based on hourly prices.
    IIRC in the UK there are EVSEs like Zappi and hypervolt that can do that.
    Personally I am considering using an app called True Energy that can use

  • "Now ConnectDER will exclusively manufacture and supply a proprietary plug-in EV charger adapter to Siemens."

    Not going to change the world with an ecosystem that's scuppered by design.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Junta ( 36770 )

      It's a proprietary *adapter*, meaning the other end is suitable for either hardwiring an EVSE or terminating in a NEMA 15-50.

      Basically, they have a 'socket on collar' that isn't standardized, but I don't think there exists an appropriate standard for that application anyway, and it looks like it would become normal wires for connecting equipment quickly. Basically the choices are either selling it as one hard wired piece (meaning cable damage requires contacting your utility company to be part of the repai

  • As an EV owner, all you need is 2 kW to charge your car overnight. 7-11 kW is total overkill. You have a good 10 h a day at home on an average day, which means 20 kWh of charge, with which you can easily drive 100 km - and you can let that accumulate over multiple days if the battery is larger (which it usually is) to account for days you go out for dinner or to the movies or whatever.

    You may have an especially long commute so you could consider upgrading to 3 kW, but no one needs a home charger in the 7-11

  • 1st - You better check with your utility company before putting this in and pulling the meter. See what's allowed at your location !. 2nd - Electrician needs to do this. Pulling the meter is NOT a homeowner project, too many dangers and people don't know what they are doing ! This is stupid to suggest otherwise. As with my house, meter box is on outside wall, opposite of driveway & parking. A long cable would have to properly installed by an electrician per local code ! Whether your house is 100 or 20

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