Electric Vehicle Manufacturing is Spreading - But Funded By SUV and Truck Sales (detroitnews.com) 236
Slashdot reader DevNull127 writes: GM plans to spend $35 billion on EVs and autonomous vehicles by 2025 (and produce a whopping 400,000 EVs). Jeep's parent company Stellantis will invest $35.5 billion in electrification and software, producing 25 all-electric vehicles by 2030. And Ford will spend even more — $50 billion on electrification — by 2026, while producing two million electric vehicles annually.
These are the statistics in the Detroit News, the top newspaper in America's top car-making city. They predict that by 2026 there'll be 180 different "crossover nameplates" in the electric vehicle market — although here's the most surprising statistic of all.
"The automakers are funding their EV investments with profits from SUVs and trucks."
Even with that, the senior auto analyst at Bank of America tells the newspaper that 25% of U.S. auto sales will be electric within just a few years.
These are the statistics in the Detroit News, the top newspaper in America's top car-making city. They predict that by 2026 there'll be 180 different "crossover nameplates" in the electric vehicle market — although here's the most surprising statistic of all.
"The automakers are funding their EV investments with profits from SUVs and trucks."
Even with that, the senior auto analyst at Bank of America tells the newspaper that 25% of U.S. auto sales will be electric within just a few years.
Only 14% (Score:3, Insightful)
Agreed. (Score:2)
The automotive industry could do with a kick up the arse.
I would have gone with a tazer to the balls but yes, I agree that they are dragging their feet.
Re: Agreed. (Score:5, Informative)
Consumers are dragging their feet. This whole electrification thing has been supply side.
Consumers are buying EVs as fast as they can get their hands on them, literally every EV is backlogged.
Not to mention that we are charging them with coal and fracking.
Those things are bad, but even if you charge an EV from coal it has less lifecycle emissions than an ICEV.
Fracking is fucking evil, though.
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Consumers are dragging their feet. This whole electrification thing has been supply side.
Consumers are buying EVs as fast as they can get their hands on them, literally every EV is backlogged.
Not to mention that we are charging them with coal and fracking.
Those things are bad, but even if you charge an EV from coal it has less lifecycle emissions than an ICEV.
Fracking is fucking evil, though.
When you have installed all of the chargers I need to recharge my car wherever I want to drive, have added the capacity to the grid to support the charging of everyone's vehicles without causing the power to go out and when this can be done without burning any type of fuel. (except maybe Nuke) then you can say "dragging feet".
Right now, depending on power plant fuel source the breakeven point is between 8 thousand and 78 thousand miles. https://www.reuters.com/busine... [reuters.com]
I'd pay more taxes to modernize t
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At the bottom of the page, another reason to ignore it
EDITORS Note: Support Townhall so we can keep telling the truth about the radical climate alarmists' agenda
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To lower CO2 emissions we need to act short term and long term.
That's right. That's why nuclear, at least fission, is stupid. It makes sense in neither.
Long term, we need more nuclear power plants. We need lots of them. If we don't build more nuclear power plants then we just burn more coal.
That's completely false. We put in more solar and wind and more storage. Even with storage, renewables are cheaper than coal now. You're basing your belief that we need nuclear on decades-old data.
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It took Ford 150 months to produce 1 million Model T's. It took Tesla 143 months to produce 1 million of their vehicles. You don't just ramp new technologies up overnight.
Re: Only 14% (Score:2)
That's not even counting Tesla, though I get the impression that you purposefully didn't want to include them because they don't represent the broader auto industry, which is true.
"Business funds investment from profits..." (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously, can reporting get any more stupid? Yes, many people are assholes and buy SVUs. Yes, that creates profits. And yes, these get invested. So what?
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Seriously, can reporting get any more stupid? Yes, many people are assholes and buy SVUs. Yes, that creates profits. And yes, these get invested. So what?
I'm not sure why you got modded off topic; but your right. Companies use their cash cows to develop new products to meet a changing marketplace. Trucks and SUVs have huge margins compared to cars and fund car company ventures.
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Seriously, can reporting get any more stupid? Yes, many people are assholes and buy SVUs. Yes, that creates profits. And yes, these get invested. So what?
I'm not sure why you got modded off topic; but your right. Companies use their cash cows to develop new products to meet a changing marketplace. Trucks and SUVs have huge margins compared to cars and fund car company ventures.
Yes, obviously. Apparently some moderators have not read the moderation guidelines....
EVs are cheaper and simpler to produce & maint (Score:3, Insightful)
There are hundreds of moving parts in the average engine of an ICE vehicle, along with sensors and complex software for air/fuel management and ignition control. In an EV you can replace all that junk with an electric motor that has precisely three moving parts (a rotor and two bearings) along with much simpler software.
If anything car makers have been dragging out the changeover to EV vehicles - and it's all to recover the tooling and setup costs of their ICE production lines, logistics and dealer networks.
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There are hundreds of moving parts in the average engine of an ICE vehicle, along with sensors and complex software for air/fuel management and ignition control. In an EV you can replace all that junk with an electric motor that has precisely three moving parts (a rotor and two bearings) along with much simpler software.
People have been making internal combustion engined cars for over 100 years. From this experience they've been able to produce vehicles that are highly reliable, low cost, very safe, and so people have considerable confidence in what they are buying.
If anything car makers have been dragging out the changeover to EV vehicles - and it's all to recover the tooling and setup costs of their ICE production lines, logistics and dealer networks.
Automobile makers will make what sells. People aren't flocking to BEVs in part because of the stories of cars setting houses on fire while charging in a garage. People aren't going to pay the upfront higher costs on a new BEV while it is still an experimental
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Automobile makers will make what sells. People aren't flocking to BEVs in part because of the stories of cars setting houses on fire while charging in a garage. People aren't going to pay the upfront higher costs on a new BEV while it is still an experimental technology. Dealers aren't going to invest the money in the logistics if people aren't buying the cars.
None of that is true of course, people ARE flocking to buy EVs to the point they're hard to find in a lot of markets because people know the technology works and aren't concerned about a fire issue in a previous generation of battery that affected a smaller percentage than fires in ICE vehicles do.
PHEVs can work for some people, but they're not a great solution for the vast majority of consumers. Like you say, they're twice the complexity and cost with reduced battery sizes where the vast majority of consu
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Automobile makers will make what sells. People aren't flocking to BEVs in part because of the stories of cars setting houses on fire while charging in a garage. People aren't going to pay the upfront higher costs on a new BEV while it is still an experimental technology. Dealers aren't going to invest the money in the logistics if people aren't buying the cars.
None of that is true of course, people ARE flocking to buy EVs to the point they're hard to find in a lot of markets because people know the technology works and aren't concerned about a fire issue in a previous generation of battery that affected a smaller percentage than fires in ICE vehicles do.
PHEVs can work for some people, but they're not a great solution for the vast majority of consumers. Like you say, they're twice the complexity and cost with reduced battery sizes where the vast majority of consumers could charge at home and never need to fill with gas. There are some that might not have charging infrastructure available or regularly take long trips, but those are a minority.
I'm not sure why you think BEVs aren't gaining market share - they've been gaining pretty regularly for years now.
The argument is that the Car makers are dragging their feet by n not swapping over all at once. Which is amusing, because Cadillac is going all electric in the next model year. The newest GM Trucks are all electric as well. There are gas models still because - Not everyone can get where they need to go in a day on 400 miles. Though, I guess you could load a generator in the trunk and use that to charge if you had to
The uptake on these vehicles is exceptional, and the supply side issues will begin to rem
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I'm not sure why you think BEVs aren't gaining market share
you write things like this "People aren't flocking to BEVs"
Given that costs, both the sticker price and total cost of ownership, impact demand it means that demand is going to be in part dependent on the supplies of raw materials for batteries.
Nope, EVs win out on the total cost of ownership.
I didn't say that PHEVs would be the one to rule them all. The choices will be BEV or PHEV for cars, and ICEV or PHEV for trucks. It depends on the market and how quickly we can see battery supplies ramped up.
PHEV may one day have a small lead in the market for a short time but not in the long run, they are more complex and more likely to catch fire compared to ICE and BEV
We are seeing movement on getting synthesized hydrocarbon fuels to market. These fuels can resolve the issue of CO2 emissions by being synthesized from CO2 from the air. These fuels can resolve petroleum import issues by being synthesized domestically (wherever domestically is for you). By being synthesized they won't have sulfur or other contaminants in them that are common to petroleum fuels, this means cleaner air.
Synthesized fuels is a status quo option, and no chance to rescue mainstream ICE apart from maybe classic cars in the future when gasoline becomes less available
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No they are not - perhaps not yet - it's the economy of scales for new technologies. But perhaps also cost of the materials for batteries.
Ever wondered why so many EVs still use incandescent bulbs? LEDs lamps seems to be so much simpler to produce...(abstracting from technology they use).
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Billy-bob is already finding this out. The redneck youtube channels are full of videos of Teslas burning up drag strips.
I mean, yeah, you can spend the price of a Tesla putting LS engines and turbos in your old car but it'll guzzle gas like there's no tomorrow and probably break down every few miles. Not exactly things you want in a daily driver.
When Tesla finally gets the cybertruck out there it's all over for Billy Bob's ICE.
Re: EVs are cheaper and simpler to produce & m (Score:5, Informative)
hours-long recharge times
And by "hours-long", you mean around 24 minutes? [insideevs.com]
and the 10k plus in extra costs
Fortunately in most of the world the "10k plus in extra costs" will be outweighed in savings from not having to pay for expensive fuel, not to mention the benefit of not having to pay regimes like Russia or Saudi Arabia for the privileges. So the few people whining about "extra costs" are fortunately irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
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It may be that fuel costs never come down again in the USA, at least not appreciably.
The fuel costs have always been artificially low here, even without bringing up stuff like environmental impact.
That ride may now be over, and good riddance. We can't afford it.
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We don't drive those compact cars because we love them so much or because we give a fuck about the environment, the thing is that we can't afford fuelling those 5 miles a gallon SUVs.
There's all kinds of ways you could remedy that if you wanted to though, which hardly need to be gone over. If you wanted lower fuel prices you could have some form of subsidy somewhere. But it's not a desirable goal, as the biosphere can't sustain that activity... Hence I applaud the willingness to actually use the market to produce solutions in this area.
Big Oil is subsidized in pretty much every way possible in the USA, which until recently has kept fuel prices scandalously low. Now they are still much l
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As long as you don't pay 10 bucks a gallon, don't come to anyone from Europe to complain.
We don't drive those compact cars because we love them so much or because we give a fuck about the environment, the thing is that we can't afford fuelling those 5 miles a gallon SUVs.
That... and the fact that we haven't designed our countries around having huge parking spaces for trucks.
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And the public transport in our cities actually works really well.
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hours-long recharge times
And by "hours-long", you mean around 24 minutes? [insideevs.com]
The problem is not so much charging time but the availability of charging outside the owner's home. Too and from work is generally not an issue, but any trip can become a problem since chargers are not nearly as available as gas. No one wants to have to search for n available charger and set around a half an hour while charging.
and the 10k plus in extra costs
Fortunately in most of the world the "10k plus in extra costs" will be outweighed in savings from not having to pay for expensive fuel, not to mention the benefit of not having to pay regimes like Russia or Saudi Arabia for the privileges. So the few people whining about "extra costs" are fortunately irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
At the current US gas prices, it's about 60K miles to breakeven, or 4 - 5 years for most drivers. Clearly the cost of driving is a lot less in the long run. The real issue will b
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The problem is not so much charging time but the availability of charging outside the owner's home. Too and from work is generally not an issue, but any trip can become a problem since chargers are not nearly as available as gas. No one wants to have to search for n available charger and set around a half an hour while charging.
A friend just bought a KIA EV6 and we took a drive in it. So we've looked a bit at the issue.
Most households have more than one car. Usually one is for long drive utility and one is for local commutes. (the other ones could be either or.) On a daily commute driving pattern you will always charge uniquely at home, you will never stop at a charging station. (The slowest form charging you can get "just plug in a regular outlet" can charge between 50 miles and 100 miles overnight for most electric cars; and if
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The charging time for the KIA EV6 from 20% (30?) to 80% is 18 minutes (that's the equivalent of about 110 miles).
Can you still turn on the AC/heating while charging? It is not an issue with gas powered cars because it takes a couple of minutes to fill up, pay and leave, but I would not want to sit in a car with no AC/heating on for 18 minutes on a hot day. Assuming I do not want to eat or whatever.
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In that one particular car, you could do that. But I see no reason to sit in the car. You need to stand up and walk around during long drive for health reasons anyway.
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And I would probably do that (while getting increasingly annoyed that it is taking so long to charge, compared to filling up a gas tank) unless it was bad weather (and I consider too hot as bad weather too).
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The problem is not so much charging time but the availability of charging outside the owner's home. Too and from work is generally not an issue, but any trip can become a problem since chargers are not nearly as available as gas. No one wants to have to search for n available charger and set around a half an hour while charging.
Around here most supermarkets have a few charging points now. You can charge it while shopping, no need to "sit around".
There's also a street charging points popping up all over the place, put in by the council. I'm sure you can top-up while you're out doing other things. It's probably easier to 'park' in one of those than find a normal parking spot right now (until more people buy electric cars, but then there'll be more charging points...)
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The problem is not so much charging time but the availability of charging outside the owner's home. Too and from work is generally not an issue, but any trip can become a problem since chargers are not nearly as available as gas. No one wants to have to search for n available charger and set around a half an hour while charging.
Around here most supermarkets have a few charging points now. You can charge it while shopping, no need to "sit around".
There's also a street charging points popping up all over the place, put in by the council. I'm sure you can top-up while you're out doing other things. It's probably easier to 'park' in one of those than find a normal parking spot right now (until more people buy electric cars, but then there'll be more charging points...)
Local is not an Issue. Finding chargers on a 6 - 12 hour trip becomes a challenge, on the road and at the other end. But even locally, the challenge is changing the mindset of "I'll get stuck with a dead battery..."
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Yes, that's the spirit!
Re: EVs are cheaper and simpler to produce & (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't forget natural disasters showed us range can be modified remotely. What's to think it can't be restricted instead of extended during an emergency per government order?
You want that? I personally don't want to fund a car that can do things like: Refuse my orders, drive me to jail, lower its range during no-movement orders during attacks/disasters, degrade range despite perfect maintenance, or require parts that in the future will require passports (batteries).
What's not to like? It is possible to use my car today for civil disobedience. I can leave my phone, wear a mask, obscure my plate, remove telematics and have a decent assurance some dragnet search wont show I was there.
Do that with your tesla that needs to stop and record credit card information every stop since you cannot charge with cash. The car itself will rat on you as well as every place you charge it. Whereas my gas car with 900 miles of range on about 10 gallons of gas can turn into 2000 miles of range if I carry a small Jerry can.
Since I don't know what the future will bring and I've already invested my time and energy into knowing how to rebuild gasoline engines, tune ecus, and weld, I kind of want to keep using the abilities I just gained to maintain the cars I already have.
But hey I'm just the weirdo who found an all aluminum car with a manual transmission that weighs 1800 lbs and gets 70 to 90 miles per gallon even at 22 years old with a disabled Hybrid battery. I want my s*** to last.
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There's a car that gets 90 miles to the gallon?
Re: EVs are cheaper and simpler to produce & (Score:2)
The old Audi A2 from early 2000â(TM)s was all aluminium and had a frugal diesel option that supposedly got in the 80â(TM)s mpg ( British gallons)
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Re: EVs are cheaper and simpler to produce & (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't forget natural disasters showed us range can be modified remotely. What's to think it can't be restricted instead of extended during an emergency per government order?
You want that? I personally don't want to fund a car that can do things like: Refuse my orders, drive me to jail, lower its range during no-movement orders during attacks/disasters, degrade range despite perfect maintenance, or require parts that in the future will require passports (batteries).
What's not to like? It is possible to use my car today for civil disobedience. I can leave my phone, wear a mask, obscure my plate, remove telematics and have a decent assurance some dragnet search wont show I was there.
None of that is specific to electric cars. Modern ICE cars could do all that just as easily.
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The part you missed is that you can, at least presently, disable the OnStar or equivalent and go dark and the car still works. (This is a good thing as I'm frequently outside the range of cell phones.) Also you can pay cash for gas, and apparently fast chargers require a credit card.
Furthermore, you can park elsewhere, carry a gas can to the gas station, pay cash, carry the gas back to the car and refuel outside of the view of the gas station camera. Try that trick with a EV.
A short range hard to refuel ca
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If thats your concern it means you don't look at the dash enough to see you are running low on gas and you run out before you realise it and if thats out in the countryside, there is nowhere to walk so you'll have to do the same as an EV driver, make a call out for the AAA. EVs give you plenty of warning so if
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Yeah. It's all about rolling coal.
200 mile range caps, hours-long recharge times
Just wait 'til you figure out that EVs can be filled up at home and that many places have charging points now (and more places every day). You just plug it in and leave it while you're doing something else (eg. shopping or eating) and when you come back it's magically at 100% again!
You didn't even have to drive out of your way to a special filling place.
Then wait 'til you feel how much torque an electric motor has. You'll be signing up, trust me...
Trucks and SUVs are profitable, not family sedans (Score:5, Insightful)
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/f... [motorbiscuit.com]
And as reported a couple years ago, sedans are so unprofitable that Ford stopped making them. https://www.vehiclehistory.com... [vehiclehistory.com]
They’re funding it with money from trucks and SUVs because it’s the only money that they have.
Therein lies the problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Americans have become conditioned to believe they must have a truck or SUV for daily living, which is the worst vehicle to electrify. Those vehicles are so heavy and are so aerodynamically inefficient that you need a huge battery just to have the power to move the huge battery.
If we wanted to save the planet, we'd all be driving electric sedans, which take 240 - 300 Wh of electricity to travel one mile [ecocostsavings.com]. Rivian's R1T needs 488 Wh to do the same [insideevs.com], and that's a light-duty pickup.
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Americans have become conditioned to believe they must have a truck or SUV for daily living, which is the worst vehicle to electrify. Those vehicles are so heavy and are so aerodynamically inefficient that you need a huge battery just to have the power to move the huge battery.
If we wanted to save the planet, we'd all be driving electric sedans, which take 240 - 300 Wh of electricity to travel one mile [ecocostsavings.com]. Rivian's R1T needs 488 Wh to do the same [insideevs.com], and that's a light-duty pickup.
Hope nobody has 4 kids then ... or groceries ... or a wheelchair ...
Re:Therein lies the problem (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm more hoping for a general upgrade in average intelligence, but expect to be disappointed. Then people like you would realize the average family size [worldpopul...review.com] in the US is a little over 3. That is, having 4 kids is a statistical outlier and should be treated as such -- a niche market.
Wheelchairs, another niche market, are frequently hauled around by hitch attachments. I personally know several people with wheelchairs moved this way, but only one with a fully-converted van.
And no one NEEDS a truck or SUV to haul groceries. Groceries easily fit in the trunks of regular cars. Hell, I'm constantly amazed by the amount of groceries my father-in-law hauls on his Honda Goldwing motorcycle.
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> And no one NEEDS a truck or SUV to haul groceries
Sure. But grocery hauling is not the only thing you need a vehicle for, and not every household has multiple vehicles.
I'm absolutely not arguing every SUV/Truck purchase is justified, but I am arguing that you are understating the real practical utility of these vehicles and how they are used in the real world.
=Smidge=
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Hatchbacks - I only buy these. Back in the days there were 'combies' aka 'station wagons' as the call it in the old wild west US.
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Considering that SUV an abysmal car size / Available space ration, anyone who argues they need one because they have so much to move around are either morons or a**holes
Anyone arguing that idea of space needed = SUV should go take a look at japanese one box cars.
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The wheelchair example is a good point. In terms of moving kids, groceries and wheelchairs a minivan/van is superior to an SUV or light truck. Lower step in height, better handling, better fuel economy, generally more features overall.
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True, but someone railing against SUVs probably should also rail against minivans for the same reason. The only reason minivans are spared from that criticism is that they aren't as 'cool' as SUVs.
I'd say the biggest boon is the sliding doors, the generally taller area (which makes for more drag, but awesome cargo capacity). The step-in height depends greatly upon the SUV, many SUVs are not really equipped for off-road operation and have clearance lower than some sedans. Some SUVs have adjustable air susp
Re: Therein lies the problem (Score:2)
Re:Therein lies the problem (Score:4, Informative)
mini-vans are the vehicle you need if you're driving wheelchair-bound people around.
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Anything flat-floored that you can get into with just a ramp is a winner. I've done some work on a Ricon chair lift in a full sized van, and it's miserable.
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Because the average SUV owner has 4 kids, right? In my family we were three kids and we managed with a first generation Opel Corsa [wikipedia.org] so, no, having kids doesn't mean you need a SUV.
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It could be that average US kids are... bigger? /sarcasm
Re: Therein lies the problem (Score:2)
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Hope nobody has 4 kids then ...
And what fraction of Americans have 4 kids? https://www.statista.com/stati... [statista.com]
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Note that particularly 'SUV' is too vague and even 'Truck'.
'SUV' can be basically the cool word for 'compact wagon', which can weigh and can have roughly equivalent aerodynamic profile to a sedan. In your own source, about half of those under 300wh/mile are called 'SUV'.
Smaller pickup trucks can even play in the segment. So far the sample size is one 'full size" pickup, so it's hard to say one thing or another. It may look much better once you have competitor full size pickups in the charts, and especiall
SUVs are not merely relabeled sedans (Score:2)
Note that particularly 'SUV' is too vague and even 'Truck'. 'SUV' can be basically the cool word for 'compact wagon', which can weigh and can have roughly equivalent aerodynamic profile to a sedan.
No.
It's a vague word indeed, but no, a SUV is not just a cool word for "compact wagon" and is absolutely not "roughly equivalent in weight and aerodynamics" to a sedan. The most popular, mid-size SUV models weigh around 5,000 pounds.
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The reason this is confusing is because a lot of auto manufacturers, all of them really, are disingenuous douchebags. I mean I know they're corporations, they don't have minds or hearts or souls or whatever, but that's how they behave. And basically all of them have tried at some point to convince us that a CUV is a SUV. Sport has a grunty, manly connotation, while crossover sounds like you're transitioning. Never mind that some CUVs are better off road than some SUVs, that's irrelevant to marketing. They w
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Americans have become conditioned to believe they must have a truck or SUV for daily living, which is the worst vehicle to electrify. Those vehicles are so heavy and are so aerodynamically inefficient that you need a huge battery just to have the power to move the huge battery.
I'm not gonna say I don't see a lot of people driving a truck for no reason. But I do see a lot of people driving one for a reason, too. If you don't live smack dab in the middle of a city then there are lots of cases where it helps. A four door truck transports five people and a whole lot of stuff in comfort, hauls yard materials for those who still have yards, etc.
Meanwhile, trucks are actually super duper easy to electrify because of their body on frame construction. If you're eliminating the transmissio
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Trunks suck. (Score:2)
People have realized that sedans are great for driving, but if you want to get practical get a station wagon, er I mean crossover is the best choice. Unless you want a sports car a crossover is quicker and more nimble than sedans of just a
OMG! (Score:5, Insightful)
This reads like "Giant companies fund things in in ways I don't expect or approve of." Every company has products they lose money on which are essentially funded by other products. Do you really thing a game console only costs $300?
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Hmm (Score:2)
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Why would we?
Hypothetically going electric wouldn't preclude the possible, which is plainly seen that already most electric models nowadays are already SUVs, and full size pickups are starting to make appearances.
It's kinda dumb but thats the reality (Score:2)
Americans love SUVs and pickups. The extra ride height, perceived "safety" increases and there is a definite American working class version of "keeping up with the joneses" in regards to pickup trucks. When all your friends drive Rams, Silverados and F150's you're not gonna be the guy driving some Toyota Camry are you? I've had people remark how my Tacoma is not "a real truck" despire the fact it usually has more bed space than their giant crew cabbed versions.
It's silly, it's unnecessary and it's ineffi
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I've had people remark how my Tacoma is not "a real truck" despire the fact it usually has more bed space than their giant crew cabbed versions.
My only problem with a Taco is that I don't fit in it. They're built like a car, with a seating position like a car. That does also mean they don't have the elevation of pickups with a more upright seating position, which translates into a decreased road picture. It also gives them the same problem as a Chevy, with its super long and flat hood, where you can't see over it... despite not having a hood like that, it just brings your head down closer to it. Ford has indisputably the best sight picture, with a
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Once the F150 Lightning has been on market for a year and we get the real sales numbers it will set the tone for the industry.
I think fleet sales will be a big one for the Lightening. It's a perfect fit for an electric utility that already runs a large truck fleet on a daily basis. Lower operation costs, can charge daily so range never an issue, and power it with their own electricity. They'll install a charger at employee's homes and replace gas cards with power credits.
if we want EV car manufacturers to sell more sedans they need to make them quite sporty in terms of performance and speed. Americans will trade over from a "big" vehichle to a "fast" one.
What is really needed is develop the infrastructure so on a vacation or business trip charging is as easy as stopping for gas.
Meanwhile, Tesla... (Score:2)
Tesla's 2022 projection is 1.5 million EVs, 2023 is 2.25 million. 2024 and 2025 are 3.4 and 5 million respectively. They appear to be set up today to handily beat the 2023 number and 2024 is not far away from established capacity. For 2025 we don't have any indication of how they will manage the incremental 1.5-1.6 million units, but they do have a plan.
Their competitors, collectively, are optimistic in being able to match Tesla's 2025 number.
(Don't get me wrong-- Tesla has plenty of challenges ahead sti
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So, you would rather give your money to the Ford family, or the Toyodas, or any of the other families in the automobile business for the better part of a century?
Right now, Tesla has the best product. Being short-sighted to that and buying something inferior does not further any social justice/income equality agenda. It is a lot like the people that are all-in with Apple, Google, or Microsoft... because the alternative is not palatable.
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Musk is going a bit more off the rails, and notably preventing unionization suggests that manufacturers that are UAW shops would treat their employees better than Musk's companies.
As far as Tesla being the best product, I don't think that's the case anymore. There were always drawbacks that I didn't like based on my experience with a colleague's Tesla. Most obviously the minimalism that says the touchscreen is the all-mighty everything. Back seat passengers had to ask someone in the front seat to please c
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I haven't looked at tesla's production. But Musk has a habit of just lying on predictions. He makes claims that can't be backed up by reality. Do you know if these numbers are likely? Or are they the standard bullshit that Musk spews?
So, they are funding new development (Score:2)
I'd rather use "meagre" instead of "whopping" (Score:2)
Power Grid and Generation (Score:4, Informative)
So how much has the the power grid improved in terms of capacity, resilience, and the ability to recover from outages. Answer: not at all. Adding wind turbines and solar farms won't help if all power is to come from electricity, there aren't enough power lines. And there is no capacitance in the system to absorb spikes or fill in for gaps/outages (and having wind farms on the other side of the country doesn't handle outages on the other side, imbalance can trip breakers). And how much has the power systems in the rest of the world where 80% of the people live, improved. Sorry, have they actually started building first world power distribution required by all electric cars? In short, no. So, good luck with your EVs when you find out there is not way to keep them charged if more than just the privileged buy them. Green hydrogen can be distributed using the same distribution networks that currently exist for gas stations. And fuel cells can realistically power heavy trucks, unlike EV trucks where the batteries weigh so much they cut into the economy of transport by reducing the carrying capacity to below economically viable operation, because of the heavy torque required.
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Adding wind turbines and solar farms won't help if all power is to come from electricity, there aren't enough power lines.
If you add any kind of capacity anywhere you'll have to build more lines to attach it. But the higher the nameplate capacity the larger the grid strain, so the more capacity you have to add.
This is the big reason why rooftop solar is still a thing, despite the danger to installers. Point of use consumption requires no new offsite infrastructure.
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Industries Transition Gradually (Score:2)
... news at 10
This is such old news (Score:2)
The car companies have always been supporting themselves on Trucks and SUVs. This is why we have so many of them and goes back decades.
The trucks and SUVs are the most profitable product. So you can always say they support X which is less profitable.
This is such old news. Here's a link for you and some text from it: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/f... [motorbiscuit.com]
"In 2019, GM sold 80 light vehicles around the world. The top revenue generators were the Chevrolet Silverado, Chevrolet Tahoe, Chevrolet Equinox, GMC Sierra
Where else would they get it? (Score:2)
Industry invests its profits to create a new generation,,, hmmmm. This is news?
What I haven't seen is if this is any different than what they would normally need to invest to stay in business. Auto manufacturers routinely build new lines and retire old ones. Every new model is always a multibillion dollar deal. And, in a healthy industry, every new model would be seeking to bury its competitors.
What is disturbing is that they don't seem to be taking advantage of the changeover to update their ways. Tesla's
Obvious funding was obvious (Score:2)
Funding wasn't going to happen otherwise. Anyone with the slightest interest in BEV knew this for many years.
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But I guess he is a bad guy because Orange Man Bad and now Space Man Bad. Unbelievable.
Orange Man was bad.
Space man? Not so much.
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Orange man was undeniably worse, except lots of people do deny it, but let's put that aside anyway
Space man is also an asshole, he's treating most of his workers like shit, and he's working against free speech while claiming to support it.
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Munro says the vehicles are profitable to produce, moreso than most conventional models. The only way Tesla is "losing money" is in expansion. They're building additional production.
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Perhaps he will close out US manufacturing and import to stay profitable.
One could make an argument for shifting to making only Cybertruck in the USA (assuming that ever happens) and importing everything else. It might get classed as a light truck for tax purposes at some point, so it makes "sense" to build it here.
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> Perhaps he will close out US manufacturing and import to stay profitable
Tesla literally just opened a factory in Texas. They had their opening ceremony about a month ago...
When I do a search like "Is Tesla profitable" I get a whole page of results about how they posted a record profit back in April of $3.3B. Maybe you need better oracle skills?
"The company gets the vast majority of its revenue and all of its profits from automotive sales." [investopedia.com]
=Smidge=
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The US has set policies which should sharply curb corn production for ethanol fuel in the near future.
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Transporting and storing green hydrogen is a much easier problem to solve than rebuilding the power grid, and building it from scratch in most of the world. Lithium? Nice to know people still want to environmentally rape the rest of the world for resources so they can stay in their perceived 'clean' first world.
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In what world is building a worldwide hydrogen network (that does not yet exist) easier and cheaper than expanding and upgrading the already existing electrical grid?
Any country without an electrical grid is going to build one anyway so it's much much easer ot just build it with capacity from the start than build one and also build a network to transport hydrogen (which will be much newer, much more expensive and much more difficult to manage in developing nations).
You've switched the lithium argument from
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> Transporting and storing green hydrogen is a much easier problem to solve than rebuilding the power grid
I don't know where the claim that we need to "rebuild the grid" comes from. With something like 120,000 public charging spots installed over the past few years I haven't heard of any massive infrastructure overhauls necessary to facilitate them... so I'm curious if you can actually produce a statement from an actual utility or industry group (not some random asshole with a blog or YT channel).
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