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Hardware Apple Technology

Samsung Allegedly Assembling a 'Dream Team' To Take Down Apple's M1 In 2025 (neowin.net) 47

Posted by BeauHD from the no-more-messing-around dept.
Samsung is rumored to be assembling a special task force dubbed "Dream Platform One team" tasked with designing a custom in-house Samsung mobile Application Processor (AP) that can take on Apple Silicon. Neowin reports: It's probably fair to say that Samsung hasn't had the best time with its Exynos offerings when compared against rivals like Qualcomm or Apple. To shake its fortunes up, the company also paired up with AMD for its Exynos 2200 GPU, and results were a mixed bag. Both the AMD RDNA 2 Xclipse 920 graphics and the Exynos 2200 CPU were found to be pretty disappointing in terms of power efficiency as they were not much better than the previous Exynos 2100 offering. In a nutshell, the new CPU was around 5% faster while the AMD graphics was around 17% better, both of which were clearly not enough (via TechAltar on Twitter). However, the company is looking to get real serious and down to business come 2025. The new report coincides with a separate report suggesting that Samsung was working on a custom chipset for its Galaxy S series. The downside is that it's not slated for 2025 and will obviously have to compete against whatever Apple offers at that time.
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Samsung Allegedly Assembling a 'Dream Team' To Take Down Apple's M1 In 2025 More

Samsung Allegedly Assembling a 'Dream Team' To Take Down Apple's M1 In 2025

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  • In 2025 (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cygnusvis ( 6168614 ) on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @08:50PM (#62563282)
    The M1 will be obsolete. This is why everyone is behind apple. They are competing with Apple as they are NOW, but they need to compete with Apple as they will be in 5 years!
    • Maybe you should have read the article, since it mentioned that.

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by cygnusvis ( 6168614 )
        Don't you think that reading anything other than the headline is asking a bit too much ? *laughing face*
      • Has been trailing Apple since the 00s so it is no surprise they will try to build a team to take them down. Just like they built a team and documented the steps needed to take down the iPhone (which never happened). The dream team works at Apple, and still will in 2025. This is why Intel will also not be able to beat it. God help them when Apple decides to make an M server package (which will be a natural next step after the Mac Pro M version). If i3/5/7 vs M1 is any indicator, Xeon will be displaced as the

        • Has been trailing Apple since the 00s so it is no surprise they will try to build a team to take them down. Just like they built a team and documented the steps needed to take down the iPhone (which never happened)

          Samsung sells more phones than Apple. Last I knew even Xiaomi does. Maybe BBK as well.
          Unless you mean something else.

          • Not necessarily. It looks like its neck and neck recently https://www.counterpointresear... [counterpointresearch.com]
          • "sell more phones" != "take down the iPhone" -- the latter being what GP said.

            • "sell more phones" != "take down the iPhone" -- the latter being what GP said.

              Right, that's what he said. But what does that even mean? Go around and destroy them all?
              I'm going with outsell them. It's a product. There isn't really much more you can do.

              • I meant what the media meant at the time which would be to disrupt the iPhone as a profitable business line. Samsung hasnt.

                • I meant what the media meant at the time which would be to disrupt the iPhone as a profitable business line. Samsung hasnt.

                  Samsung has a profitable, successful smartphone business.
                  The media is just an echo chamber of morons.

          • Re: In 2025 (Score:4, Insightful)

            by nextTimeIsTheLast ( 6188328 ) on Wednesday May 25, 2022 @02:43AM (#62563958)
            Samsung, Xaomi and the rest sell phones. Apple sells an ecosystem, not at all the same thing.
          • Maybe total units worldwide, Samsung sells more than Apple; however, that does not mean Samsung CPUs outsell Apple CPUs as many Samsung phones use Qualcomm CPUs. For example in the flagship Galaxy S series, each model has a Qualcomm Snapdragon or Samsung Exynos variant. Every Apple phone uses an Apple CPU.

        • I'm not sure their goal was "take down Apple", I think their goal was "make a shit ton of money off smartphones" .. and I think they accomplished that.

        • So you not only have no idea how mobile tech works but you're absolutely clueless about server hardware as well.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by gtall ( 79522 )

          The article reads like Corporate Man-Speak. Why is the marketing drivell "We gonna take you down and WIN!", rather than "We aim to build fast efficient chip!". I'll bet the marketdroids ripped off their shirts and made animal grunting noises when they issued the press release so that their corporate bosses would feel good.

        • Has been trailing Apple since the 00s so it is no surprise they will try to build a team to take them down. Just like they built a team and documented the steps needed to take down the iPhone (which never happened). The dream team works at Apple, and still will in 2025. This is why Intel will also not be able to beat it. God help them when Apple decides to make an M server package (which will be a natural next step after the Mac Pro M version). If i3/5/7 vs M1 is any indicator, Xeon will be displaced as the CPU of choice for servers.

          Didn't Slamdung shutter their Exynos Design Center in the U.S. a few years back; because their Designs were so pitiful compared with Apple's (and maybe even Qualcomm's crap), that it was pointless to continue?

          Ah yes, here it is; back in 2019. . .

          https://www.digitaltrends.com/... [digitaltrends.com]

          https://tech.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]

          M1 Killer! [Derisive Snort] Too bad it will be competing against the 2nd Variation of the Expanded Bus version of the Mx (M2 Mega?) SoC.

          The truth is, Apple are ARM Gods; both software and Hardware. An

        • I don't see servers happening. Apple's strengths have always been in consumer and pros, also nailing the bit in between. They're all good because they overlap for additional products and services. There's no point in a product line if it doesn't connect into the ecosystem.

          Apple churning out server chips or serious servers would be like Ryanair having a bash at building aeroplanes.

          • Apple have a platform that is no longer architecture compatible with server-gear. With Swift running on Linux it may not be necessary, but time will tell.

    • The M1 will be obsolete

      The plan is to have a new processor generation every year, that would be M2 in 2022, M3 in. 2023, M4 in 2024, and M5 in 2025. The difference is usually a few percent in speed, but over four versions that adds up. And there will likely be process improvements that will be used to increase the number of cores.

      But Apple also has different versions. The M1 in high-end iPhones and iPads, and in low-end Macs. The M1 Pro for the mid range MacBooks, M1 Max for high end MacBooks and mid range Macs, and M1 Ultra f

  • Dumb article (Score:5, Interesting)

    by locater16 ( 2326718 ) on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @09:19PM (#62563338)
    The new GPU partnership with AMD worked out fine. It runs just as efficiently if not a tiny bit moreso than Qualcomm's newest and best GPU when they're both on the same (Samsung) process. That headlines and opinion articles like this just get stuff like this totally wrong makes the whole thing suspect, which is on top of rumors to begin with.

  • Wrong problem? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by backslashdot ( 95548 ) on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @09:41PM (#62563388)

    I appreciate CPU power, but I think there are other higher impact inventions they should put resources into inventing such as a crease-less folding display technology. That would enable foldable phones to not be annoying with no crease down the middle. The other thing they out to invent is 5000 ppi displays for VR headsets. Before you say that driving a VR display would require a mad CPU .. that's false. With foveated rendering, the GPU only needs to render a 640x480 or smaller square at a time. As long as it can sustain 120 fps it's good enough.

    Don't get me wrong, we do need faster CPUs to enable things like driverless vehicles and factory robots, but the two things I mentioned would have a more tangible impact in a short term.

    • Mehh. Most Factory robots run on potatoes designed 20yrs ago.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Orlando ( 12257 )

      What makes foldable screens more urgent than CPU power?

      • Using the Samsung Galaxy Z Fold 3 .. it enables a lot of things like note taking without having to carry around a tablet. The only problem is there's a visible crease down the middle. Most apps I use aren't CPU starved. It's a new paradigm, not as revolutionary as touchscreen phones .. but still good. Foldable phones are clearly the future. The fact that they are so expensive and yet selling well is a testament to that.

    • just a guess, but I doubt the resources for a creaseless folding screen will have much overlap with the people who design chips for power efficiency and speed, they can comfortably do both without sacrificing resources for either.

  • "Take Down" is just negative hype (Score:3)

    by jaa101 ( 627731 ) on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @10:30PM (#62563508)

    Competition like this is good. Claiming Samsung is doing it to "take down Apple" is just a very negative, click-baity take on the development. If Apple v Samsung turns into the same kind of situation as Intel v AMD then that helps us get faster and more efficient processors. And even if one side or the other gets well in front it tends not to have drastic immediate consequences for market share ... because many customers prefer their hardware and OS over the alternatives and don't especially care about performance gaps. Even the manufacturers these days don't want to completely kill off the competition because of monopoly laws.

    • Re:"Take Down" is just negative hype (Score:4, Funny)

      by ceoyoyo ( 59147 ) on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @11:48PM (#62563686)

      It has to be a sports analogy. That's the rules. Samsung knows what they need to do. They need to take the shots, play the man, come together as a team and put the puck in the net.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      It does seem that ARM might be becoming a thing for desktops and laptops. Samsung could be a big player if they can produce a high end chip. AMD's GPU technology could be very competitive in that area, as their tiered memory management tech is second to none. One of the main limitations of mobile GPUs, including the M1, is that they do tiled rendering to try to avoid shared memory bandwidth issues and it's difficult to manage efficiently.

  • It looks like Qualcomm bought all the ex-Apple engineers that were available, so Samsung has to find second or third tier engineers to get the job done.

    I mean, if Samsung could do it they'd have done it by now. Same with Qualcomm.

  • That exynos is not entirely competitive to the best that Qualcomm/Apple is offering is news to no one. There is the old adage, "Lead, follow, or get out of the way". Samsung will be hard pressed to lead, but it is not as if they do not have very talented engineers. Let is see if being freed from the past designs lets them move into the leadership group. The world is far better when multiple players are constantly leap frogging each other to be the leader.
  • Christopher Lloyd was awesome in that.
  • L1 cache is so bleeding fast, but there always so remarkably little of.
    Double L1 cache, and it will blow every processor out there clean out of the water so hard that it is not even funny anymore.

    There seems to be so much focus on the L3 cache, and that worked well, but it appeared the other two cache levels have been forgotten.

    Particularly for main stream users who use little to no parallel software, the number of cores can easily be halved to accommodate this.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      L1 cache is so bleeding fast, but there always so remarkably little of.
      Double L1 cache, and it will blow every processor out there clean out of the water so hard that it is not even funny anymore.

      There seems to be so much focus on the L3 cache, and that worked well, but it appeared the other two cache levels have been forgotten.

      Particularly for main stream users who use little to no parallel software, the number of cores can easily be halved to accommodate this.

      The problem is L1 is typically fully associati

    • Apple has 192KB L1 data cache and 128KGB L1 instruction cache per core, that is 320KB per core. 128+64 KB for the efficiency cores. An M1 Ultra has 16 performance and 4 efficiency cores, that is almost 6MB of L1 cache.

      A lot of their speed comes from this. And they made some small changes to the processor, to make it more Intel compatible.

  • Somebody didn't "get" Apple. Apple ICs aren't that much anything special unto themselves (they are but this isn't their significance), they are first and foremost the last missing piece of Apple controlling their entire product pipeline start to finish, including top tier top location end user retail experiences.

    Samsung would be closer to "taking down" Apple (*Aaaaahahahaha ...*) if they started a luxury fashion brand. And I'm not even joking. ....
    Things brings up memories when Siri opened up one of Apples

  • As long as they focus on the hardware part, I am hopeful. If they attempt to do any software, forget it - Samsung and software don't mix.

  • Looks like am ARM race

  • Even though there were a few other server chips, until the M1, ARM was seen as an embedded CPU architecture.

    Suddenly it is beating out high end x64 in various metrics and definitely in terms of performance per watt. And this is just ARM's entry into the field.

    Right now Intel, AMD, Samsung, Qualcomm are resetting their 3- year and 5- year plans. They've all been dragged into high end chip markets.

    I'm looking forward to the next few rounds of Neoverse. They're looking real good in public cloud as well. x64 se

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