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Power

Bill Gates' TerraPower Will Set Up a $4 Billion Nuclear Plant In Wyoming (interestingengineering.com) 243

Hmmmmmm shares a report from Interesting Engineering: Founded by Bill Gates, TerraPower, a company that plans to use nuclear energy to deliver power in a sustainable manner, has selected Kremmer, Wyoming as a suitable site to demonstrate its advanced nuclear reactor, Natrium. The decision was made after extensive evaluation of the site and consultations with the local community, the company said in a press release.

Last year, the Department of Energy (DOE) had awarded TerraPower a grant of $80 million to demonstrate its technology. The advanced nuclear reactor that is being developed by the company in association with General Electric-Hitachi, uses a sodium-cooled fast reactor that works with a molten salt-based energy storage system. Earlier in June, the company had decided to set up its demonstration plant in Wyoming and has recently sealed the decision by selecting the site of a coal-fired power plant that is scheduled for a shut down by 2025, the press release said.

The demonstration plant where the company plans to set up a 345 MW reactor will be used to validate the design, construction, and operation of TerraPower's technology. Natrium technology uses uranium enriched to up to 20 percent, far higher than what is used by other nuclear reactors. However, nuclear energy supporters say that the technology creates lesser nuclear waste, Reuters reported. The energy storage system to be used in the plant is also designed to work with renewable sources of energy. TerraPower plans to utilize this capability and boost its output to up to 500 MW, enough to power 400,000 homes, the company said.

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Bill Gates' TerraPower Will Set Up a $4 Billion Nuclear Plant In Wyoming

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  • Uh oh (Score:5, Funny)

    by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Thursday November 18, 2021 @08:16AM (#61998649)

    Slashdot hates Bill Gates but has a hard on for untested molten salt reactors. Who will win this round?

    • As long as he puts 5G chips into the salt, I'm cool with this.

    • Re:Uh oh (Score:5, Funny)

      by coofercat ( 719737 ) on Thursday November 18, 2021 @08:29AM (#61998679) Homepage Journal

      Bill Gates in charge of nuclear reactions? Gees, I hope he doesn't force them to run the whole place with Windows. TerrorPower indeed.

      • Re:Uh oh (Score:4, Funny)

        by JeffOwl ( 2858633 ) on Thursday November 18, 2021 @11:15AM (#61999219)

        Nuclear power generation technology and MS Windows

        1. For no reason the reactor will stop working periodically and need to be restarted. When this happens all control system screens will show an image of Cherenkov Radiation.

        2. When the new reactor goes online you will have to buy all new light bulbs

        3. Apple will make a competing reactor that leaves spent fuel inert, requires little to no maintenance, and can be operated with little or no training. Unfortunately most appliances will not be compatible with the power it outputs and it will cost twice as much per KWH produced.

        4. Occasionally the reactor will stop responding to operator commands until the operator simultaneously presses the start, stop, and SCRAM buttons.

        5. All the status information and controls typically laid out in front of nuclear reactor operators will be replaced with a menu system which requires the operator to traverse a tree of options to find what they are looking for. This will become so cumbersome that they will add a search feature which requires you to type in the name of the function you are looking for.

      • Bill Gates in charge of nuclear reactions? Gees, I hope he doesn't force them to run the whole place with Windows.

        Nuclear power plants already effectively run on Windows.

    • Slashdot hates Bill Gates but has a hard on for untested molten salt reactors. Who will win this round?

      Hate to confuse you, but this is a test.

      How exactly do you think you test things?

      • by Merk42 ( 1906718 )
        You seem confused too, ArchieBunker was referring to the comments section here.

        Will they be against it because it's Bill Gates?
        Will they be for it because it's Nuclear?
        • You seem confused too, ArchieBunker was referring to the comments section here.

          He seems to think that "untested" is a great slam. Well, this is testing.

          • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

            Only two MSRs have ever operated, both research reactors in the United States

            My mistake, only tested in limited research instances.

          • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

            He was pointing out that enthusiastically advocating a poorly tested technology ("hav[ing] a hard on for") is unwise.

            That is quite a subtle distinction in the current popular debate format of "oooh, sick burn" though.

        • You seem confused too, ArchieBunker was referring to the comments section here.

          Will they be against it because it's Bill Gates? Will they be for it because it's Nuclear?

          People surely do like to draw battle lines. I'm not concerned about the Bill Gates or Slashdot nuc cult. I'm interested in this experimental/operational reactor, although molten sodium is to me pretty concerning. Accidents in that loop will get pretty exciting pretty quickly.

          Trying to think of a car analogy - maybe running gasoline in your radiator and cooling system? 8^)

    • Slashdot hates Bill Gates but has a hard on for untested molten salt reactors. Who will win this round?

      To be precise, the reactor is cooled with liquid Sodium, and the salt is used to transfer/store the energy.

      Let us hope that this sodium reactor goes better than the reactor at Santa Susana.

      Color me interested, but nervously cautious. Had a little experience with the alkali metals some decades ago. You tend to get complacent with them until things go haywire. And when they go haywire, things get real.

      If it messes up, it will be spectacular. I approve of it being placed in Wyoming if for nothing else t

      • If it messes up, it will be spectacular. I approve of it being placed in Wyoming if for nothing else than the low population. But it's a pretty place, I'd hate to see any large scale problems happen,

        Yes, what better place to contaminate than where the most visited national park is located. Perfectly sound idea. Although, if anything does happen, there will be a new site to visit. In about 10,000 years.

        This is in contrast to the Marcellus shale work in PA where everyone was encouraged to believ
    • by sinij ( 911942 )

      Slashdot hates Bill Gates but has a hard on for untested molten salt reactors. Who will win this round?

      Well, obviously, "Trust the Science" side always wins.

      • I trust science, but I do not trust "THE" science. The two are mutually exclusive.

        Science is a means for learning about the natural world through experimentation, peer review, and willingness to re-evaluate everything as needed based on new evidence.

        It is NOT a dogmatic body of fixed conclusions, enforced by a rigid priesthood, via government mandates and social media bans and "cancellation" and whatnot.

        In current parlage, "trust the science" really means "trust the self-proclaimed 'experts'." Most of who

  • by sinij ( 911942 ) on Thursday November 18, 2021 @08:24AM (#61998669)
    Nuclear reactors do not emit greenhouse gasses and provides baseload power. Unlike natural gas powered generators coupled with wind turbines, nuclear is actually green.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      I suppose it's technically true that the reactor itself does not emit greenhouse gasses during normal operation, but the plant as a whole does. The fuel lifecycle involves lots of emissions too.

      There is no way to generate electricity with absolutely zero emissions over the entire lifecycle. Every method requires stuff to be manufactured and installed. It's just a question of how much over the lifetime, and if it is low enough that we can offset it with capture.

      Nuclear's emissions vary over a large range, de

      • New nuclear plants in Europe generally have a 10 year planned timescale from planning to starting operation

        Who cares? This is about Wyoming.

        • According to the Nuclear Energy Agency (NEA), it takes about five to seven years to build a large nuclear unit.

          http://large.stanford.edu/cour... [stanford.edu]

          still way too slow

          • According to the Nuclear Energy Agency (NEA), it takes about five to seven years to build a large nuclear unit.

            Sure. That's how long it takes to build, but the GP was talking about time to get a new one up and running, which includes planning, approvals, construction, testing, and more. While your link does say 5-7 years for the build step, it goes on to say later:

            In total, it takes about a decade or more to build one nuclear power plant.

            ...which seems to line up exactly with the GP's comment that, "New nuclear plants in Europe generally have a 10 year planned timescale from planning to starting operation".

          • by gweihir ( 88907 )

            Add planning and all the problems they only find when they try to get it ready to run, and 20 years is more like it.

        • The argument is being made that this plant is a replacement for the nearby coal-fired plant (one of the three units there already shut down to meet haze limits). That coal-fired plant sells the bulk of its electricity to utilities farther west, some as far as the Pacific Coast. The most interesting question to me is will those customers be willing to buy nuclear electricity? At present my guess would be no, they're going to buy wind-solar-storage based power instead.
          • by sinij ( 911942 )
            Why do you think they are going to buy wind energy instead of nuclear?
          • They will buy wind energy through an exchange. Who in turn will trade renewables for baseload thermal/hydro power to serve immediate customer demand. The customers can pat themselves on the back for buying 'green' energy. Even though that's just an accounting trick.

            The growth of renewables has spurred the growth of a lot of thermal energy capacity.

      • by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 ) on Thursday November 18, 2021 @10:40AM (#61999111)

        We need stuff that we can get online in a year or two, and lots of it.

        One of the things often not mentioned is conservation. I can use my own example.

        I replaced my oil furnace with a super efficient gas furnace that extracts so much heat that it uses a plastic pipe as a chimney. super efficient blower motor. It paid off in less than 5 years.

        Another layer of insulation in the attic.

        All lights replaced with LED's.

        Refrigerator and freezers are very efficient.

        Our latest spa is also super efficient. And as an outdoor spa, it works harder than one in the house.

        Our electrical bill is less than our neighbor's, who have none of the efficiency additions we do. After showing my one neighbor our heating savings, he installed a super efficient gas furnace.

        So we're not shivering in the dark, we're living quite well and better than the neighbors, using less electricity, and spending less money overall.

        If most people did that, they'd save money and energy.

      • I suppose it's technically true that the reactor itself does not emit greenhouse gasses during normal operation, but the plant as a whole does. The fuel lifecycle involves lots of emissions too.

        There is no way to generate electricity with absolutely zero emissions over the entire lifecycle. Every method requires stuff to be manufactured and installed. It's just a question of how much over the lifetime, and if it is low enough that we can offset it with capture.

        Nuclear's emissions vary over a large range, depending on where the fuel comes from and how it is stored when used, and where the plant is built. Sometimes it can get low enough to be competitive (on emissions, not on cost) with wind+storage, but not in places like Europe.

        Then there's no fundamental reason why the life-cycle GHG emissions in Europe couldn't also be competitive with wind+storage.
        I noticed you said wind+storage but not solar, according to the Nuclear folks Nuclear has 1/3 the life-cycle emissions as solar [world-nuclear.org].

        The other issue is that it's too slow. We need solutions now. New nuclear plants in Europe generally have a 10 year planned timescale from planning to starting operation, although it often over-runs to 20 years. Either way, that's too late. We need stuff that we can get online in a year or two, and lots of it.

        It takes even longer if you never build it. That 10-20 year problem was true 10 years ago. If

        Either way you're solving the wrong problem. Yes we need new low carbon energy sources next year, we also need new low carbon energy sources in 10-20 years. Why not s

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          I don't but the World Nuclear Association's numbers, especially since nuclear emissions have a huge range.

          • I don't but the World Nuclear Association's numbers, especially since nuclear emissions have a huge range.

            Well I was pretty clear I was using an industry source, but they're also the only source I found with my admittedly brief search.

            Either way Nuclear, like wind and solar, doesn't use carbon for the direct generation of electricity, so there's no reason that all three can't be have their CO2 emissions per unit of power brought to essentially zero.

            Are so confident in wind + solar + storage that you're willing to bet the climate on them being able to supply 95% of our power?

    • I don't know of any nuclear reactors where you can skimp on the maintenance and not risk a fairly massive disaster. It was like pulling teeth and a minor miracle to get an extremely cut down infrastructure bill that barely spends $120 billion a year in a country of 330 million with an infrastructure from the 1920s. When it comes time to shut down your power plant it's too tempting for a slick businessman to come in and promise they can keep it running safely and then just pocket the profits. And we don't pu
      • Regarding the "infrastructure bill," that's because infrastructure is mainly a local/state responsibility.

        Also because this "infrastructure" bill, like most of its kind, is mainly pork, i.e., a vote-buying tool for Demoncrats. Most of whom should be in prison, not in Congress.

        Source: U.S. Constitution.

        Disclaimer: NOT implying that Republicans are necessarily much better, or in some cases, any better at all.

    • Wind turbines by themselves do often require natural gas or other peaker plants. But that's not the only approach. Wind coupled with solar, and hydroelectric works well. Pumped storage also allows us to store excess electricity for later use. Finally, if we have a better grid we can more effectively move excess power from different areas. Right now, the US has three major grids, East, West and Texas. But there's a plan to connect the three grids https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tres_Amigas_SuperStation [wikipedia.org] which w
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by sinij ( 911942 )
        Do you know what percentage of wind turbines are deployed in a way that does not involve any kind of fossil-fuel baseload generators? I speculate that this number is close to 0%.
        • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

          Do you know what percentage of wind turbines are deployed in a way that does not involve any kind of fossil-fuel baseload generators? I speculate that this number is close to 0%.
          You are mistaken. It is 100%.
          As a wind plant does not need base load "as backup".
          It needs: balancing power. Technically they do not need any back up, as wind plants are small and localized, and wind patterns are huge. If my wind plant here does not produce power, the next one 100 miles away: does.

          You do not even know the technical

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by gweihir ( 88907 )

          Do you know what percentage of wind turbines are deployed in a way that does not involve any kind of fossil-fuel baseload generators? I speculate that this number is close to 0%.

          Your speculation is both worthless and untrue. It does nicely show the fundamentally defective "though"-processes of the nuclear fanatics though: Complete and utter failure at seeing reality.

    • by flink ( 18449 )

      The plant itself does not emit much carbon, other than from the concrete it took to build it, but the ongoing mining, purification, enrichment, and milling of Uranium certainly does. According to this paper [iaea.org], a 1.3MW light water reactor's fuel for the year will take 38,000 tons of CO2 to produce. Now that's much less than the equivalent coal plant at ~8 million tons [source [gem.wiki]], but not necessarily less than other mixes that include renewables + gas. It will depend very much on how reliable wind or solar is

    • Nuclear reactors do not emit greenhouse gasses and provides baseload power. Unlike natural gas powered generators coupled with wind turbines, nuclear is actually green.

      Until the place undergoes a rapid disassembly.

    • by fermion ( 181285 )
      In the US nuclear power has not been sustainable in the US. New Jersey taxpayers are giving $300 million a year to fund nuclear on top of their normal rates. Nuclear power plants, even if completed, have required tax payers to pay extra for years. We do need baseline power. Natural gas is a good choice as we phase it out.
  • I'm surprised that Wyoming allowed this. The Coal lobby runs the state.
    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      They probably understand that this will not have an impact anytime soon. Maybe they will have a reliable industrialized, proven design in 50 years, maybe later. But not before that.

  • by Mspangler ( 770054 ) on Thursday November 18, 2021 @09:56AM (#61998931)

    Not Kremmer.

    Trivia fact; Kemmerer is the original home of JC Penney.

  • I was really hoping they'd be building one of the 4th-gen reactors that ran on thorium or nuclear waste. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
    • I agree but proving the reliability of the cooling system is what is important here. It's been determined that current reactors can be run using the thorium cycle by using uranium to prime the reaction. What we really need is someone to design thorium fuel rods. When this happens, we can refuel all our reactors with thorium. This would dramatically lower the amount of uranium refinement needed since we have literal megatons of stored away thorium. The reason nobody is doing this is because uranium is s

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      I was really hoping they'd be building one of the 4th-gen reactors that ran on thorium or nuclear waste. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

      Hahahaha, no. The tech is not ready in the least. Maybe in 100 years.

  • We should be using Thorium, smaller reactors. Save the Uranium and Plutonium for spacecraft where power density is more important. Use less dangerous materials here on earth. Put more smaller reactors where we have current local power plants. my 2 bits.
  • As long as no horses are hurt, they're good.

    And they don't even care less if it's just beside a reservation.

The unfacts, did we have them, are too imprecisely few to warrant our certitude.

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