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Bitcoin Power The Almighty Buck

A Bitcoin Mine In Navajo Nation Flares Tensions (vice.com) 172

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: Just outside of Shiprock, New Mexico, on land belonging to the Navajo Nation, a Bitcoin mine owned and operated by a Canadian investment company consumes seven megawatts of power each month -- enough to power 19,600 homes. The operation is run by a firm called WestBlock Capital and mines between 23 and 25 bitcoins per month, equivalent to roughly $1.4 to $1.6 million USD, with a majority of its power coming from renewable solar energy. According to a press release from the mine's parent company, Luxxfolio, the mine accesses these resources "at significantly reduced cost in the bottom decile of global power costs."

But all around the mine, Dine -- citizens of the Navajo Nation -- live without electricity or running water in their homes. The Navajo Tribal Utility Authority (NTUA), the nation's non-profit utility enterprise that initially partnered with Calgary, Alberta blockchain company WestBlock on the mine project, is working to connect more homes on the nation to basic utilities. A short documentary detailing the project by Bitcoin mining hosting company Compass was released last week, framing the mine as a means to achieve sovereignty and economic prosperity for the nation. But some Dine are bristling at the idea of a foreign Bitcoin mining company getting access to dirt cheap electricity while residents in Navajo Nation live without basic utilities like power and running water.

Tyler Puente, who commented on a since-deleted Facebook post from Navajo Nation President Jonathan Nez's Facebook page about the mine's groundbreaking ceremony that Navajo leadership are allowing outsiders to take advantage of Dine, told Motherboard that he sees the Bitcoin mine as a form of "financial colonialism." "I think Bitcoin companies prey on communities like my own," said Puente. "My perspective is that we're being used." To some Dine, WestBlock project resembles a form of crypto-colonialism, a term that describes the exploitation of lands and resources by cryptocurrency and blockchain interests, often under the guise of progressive or egalitarian rhetorics for the host communities.

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A Bitcoin Mine In Navajo Nation Flares Tensions

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  • Then do something. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Kisai ( 213879 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @10:36PM (#61973453)

    The Navajo nation should require that 100% of it's residents in it's territory be connected to power before any "excess capacity" energy goes into the bitcoin mining. Otherwise, yes, it's exploitive, just like it was hundreds of years ago.

    • by anonymouscoward52236 ( 6163996 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @10:56PM (#61973511)

      Can't they just charge a price per kilowatt-hour just under what it costs in the lowest alternative, then pocket the difference? Then use that to pay for infrastructure upgrades? Or is the Navajo nation so corrupt that they will use the money to run off and buy liquor and booze or something? Surely a contract can be written to earmark the money somehow. It makes a hell of a lot more sense to draw long term revenues from the Bitcoin farm than to accept some kind of one-time offering for infrastructure.

      • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @06:28AM (#61974299)

        Read TFA. The energy was sitting there unused, that's why WestBlock was able to make this deal. Logistics make it too costly to build the infrastructure out to the rural areas. It's not WestBlock's fault that that situation existed, but it did. They are using generation capacity that wasn't otherwise being used, the utility is getting paid for that, and the Navajo is getting significant revenue from the land lease and taxes. Everybody wins, but there's always some bitch got to whine about it.

      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        I've been trying to get to the bottom of this. It seems that the Navajo power company had excess capacity. Due to lack of infrastructure they had 15MW of power they couldn't sell to anyone.

        The bitcoin miners came in and did a deal where they would pay low rates for half of it, with the idea being that at least then there is some ROI for the Navajo and they can use the money to build the infrastructure they need to get that power to members of their nation.

        The issue seems to be that the low price being paid

    • And it must be megawatthours, not megawatts each month.

      • by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @01:15AM (#61973779)

        And it must be megawatthours, not megawatts each month.

        TFA says "seven megawatts of power per month" which makes it clear it was written by an idiot.

        But it also says "enough to power 19,600 homes for a month." Seven megawatt-hours is way too little for that.

        The most plausible explanation is that the bitcoin mine consumes seven megawatts of power. That would be 360 watts per household, which is low but plausible for poor households in a mild climate.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Apparently they have an excess of 15MW of capacity. They sold half of it to the crypto miners, because they can't sell it to anyone else.

          It's not clear why they have an excess of 15MW. Maybe someone can fill us in.

          • If you had ever been to Shiprock NM area, it would be readily clear and apparent. There is zero infrastructure there and people live sprawled out along a single highway running south, and little dirt roads headed off into the desert. Building powerlines to all of these remote places scattered about would be crazy expensive. So likely they have the power, but no way to get it to them.

            Realistically the would have to move the solar panels to the houses, but that then involves batteries and all kinds of ot
    • They had the last 100-something years to do that though. The fact these people have no electric or water has nothing to do with a few months of Bitcoin mining.

      The energy was being produced and went unused, basically their government wasted tons of subsidies on green solar energy boondoggles when the community wasnâ(TM)t even connected to a grid.

      So you create production but you donâ(TM)t have demand, because they havenâ(TM)t been wired in, obviously if someone is willing to pay for the energy

    • by wiz32 ( 704346 )
      I live near the Navajo Nation I don't think you quite understand how large and dispersed it really is.
      • I live near the Navajo Nation. I don't think you quite understand how large and dispersed it really is.

        Indeed. The Navajo Nation territory is larger than 10 U.S. states but with way fewer people than any of them.

        It is bigger than West Virginia but slightly smaller than South Carolina.

        • The Navajo Nation and surrounding land is the only place I've hit "scan" on my car's FM radio and had it go around and around without finding anything.

    • by kenh ( 9056 ) on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @01:22AM (#61973793) Homepage Journal

      The indian nation could choose to do that, but who would build the infrastructure to make that happen?

      If anyone on the reservation wants electricity they need only go out and buy a bunch of solar panels, thats what the crypto-miners did...

      Oh, wait, they have no money, and since they dont vote they dont get infrastructure investments from politicians. If you were to wire the indian reservation, they'd then need more money to buy appliances and devices to use that electricity - but they have no money to fo that either. And if they somehow got someone else to fund and build the infrastructure, and they also found someone to give them tvs, washer/dryers, A/C, etc. how would they pay their electric bills? They still have no money.

      But yes, you captured their entire plight with your pithy retort that the native americans are suffering because they were weak negotiators... /SMH

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @07:16AM (#61974397) Homepage Journal

        The crypto miners didn't build the solar facility. The Navajo did, at least that's my understanding. Their problem is that due to lack of infrastructure they have excess power they can't sell. The crypto miners agreed to buy half of it at low cost and built their facility nearby. In other words they took advantage of the lack of money for infrastructure to get that energy to where it could be sold.

        The complaint now is that it's an exploitative deal. If it wasn't for lack of money to build infrastructure they could sell that energy for much more than the crypto miners pay.

        • The crypto miners didn't build the solar facility. The Navajo did, at least that's my understanding. Their problem is that due to lack of infrastructure they have excess power they can't sell. The crypto miners agreed to buy half of it at low cost and built their facility nearby. In other words they took advantage of the lack of money for infrastructure to get that energy to where it could be sold.

          The complaint now is that it's an exploitative deal. If it wasn't for lack of money to build infrastructure they could sell that energy for much more than the crypto miners pay.

          But they don't, do they? This is not the Canadian firm' fault, nor its obligation to fix. At this moment, the power plant in the reservation is in a better situation than before because it is selling excess power that was going to waste.

          We are focusing and blaming the wrong actor (the mining company) when we should be blaming local and federal government (and let's be honest, in-house racism and colonialism) for most people in the reservation lacking the means to connect themselves to basic utilities.

          Ye

          • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

            by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            Right, it's not the crypto mining company's fault or obligation to fix, but they are exploiting a bad situation for their own gain. It's morally distasteful, especially given the history.

    • Really confusing here. There seems to be excess capacity since the bitcoin miners can get power for cheap. The article seems to be slanted to give the idea that the miners are taking the power away from the residents. If I were to guess, the reason the residents don't have power isn't that the miners sucked it all up, but because there are no wires from the power plant to their homes. (to make it sound worse houses with no piped-in water is mentioned as well)

      If the miners weren't there, where would tha
      • by JBeretta ( 7487512 ) on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @03:52AM (#61974031)

        Is it possible that the profits from the miners could be going towards building out the infrastructure to send power to more homes?

        Trying to reason with people who are so convinced Capitalism is evil, is like trying to teach a pig to sing. They're so absolutely convinced that any transfer of money, for anything, is someone fucking over someone else.

        All this solar power, not doing a damn thing, and they freak out over it being sold, on the cheap, when it cannot be sold to the residents who aren't even hooked up to the fucking grid.

        Of course the profits should be put into building out the infrastructure. That's an absolutely logical course of action. Sell the infinitely renewable solar power for cash. Use said cash to finishing building the network. THEN kick out the bitcoin miners if there's not enough electricity left over.

      • The complaint is the deal with the miners is selling the electricity at such a low cost that the nation isn't getting much out of it. And that the miners would be willing to pay more for the electricity, thus providing funding the tribe needs for infrastructure that is sorely lacking.

    • by JBeretta ( 7487512 ) on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @03:45AM (#61974023)

      The Navajo nation should require that 100% of it's residents in it's territory be connected to power before any "excess capacity" energy goes into the bitcoin mining. Otherwise, yes, it's exploitive, just like it was hundreds of years ago.

      Why? They're using solar. Any electricity generated, and not used, is wasted. Those solar panels (or molten salt if that's what they're using) are sitting in the sun... If nobody is using the electricity then why the fuck wouldn't you sell it?

      Explain, please, how excess solar capacity, not sold, benefits these Indians in any way, shape, or form.

      Maybe use the revenue from selling the electricity, to finish building their grid? Think maybe that'd be a good use for the money? Then, when folks are hooked up and spare capacity is low, kick out the bitcoin miners. Doesn't that sound a bit more reasonable?

      You do understand how solar works, right? We get a new batch of sunlight, for free, every goddamn day. Anyone who wants to let solar panels idle, and not do a damn thing, probably eats paint chips and licks windows.

    • Navaho here. Every day I work in Bitcoin mines, breathing in toxic silicone and gpu dust. What to show for it? Barely enough to feed family. A few megawatts on good day. Have you tried to feed hungry children with megawatts? I wish white man never come.
    • The Navajo nation should require that 100% of it's residents in it's territory be connected to power before any "excess capacity" energy goes into the bitcoin mining. Otherwise, yes, it's exploitive, just like it was hundreds of years ago.

      If the mining rig is mostly solar-powered, then this requirement would be moot, for starters.

      Secondly, the power goes unused, so it is not a case that this mining rig is taking anything from people (who sadly aren't connected to basic utilities at all.)

      This is hardly colonialism, since the Canadian company isn't taking something from them (they don't have it.)

      Instead of blaming the Canadian company, we should be blaming ourselves, US of A citizens, for allowing US citizens to live without basic utilit

    • Require all navajo to be given free flying silver ponies before selling any electricity excess were not using. Passing laws would make that happen. Or they could sell that unused power, get some cash flow and use it to help people electrify their homes. But then they won't get the silver flying pony law passed

  • by MrNJ ( 955045 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @10:38PM (#61973459)
    WTH is "seven megawatts of power each month" supposed to mean?
    • It's technobabble for "this editor has absolutely no freaking idea how units of power or power capacity works".

      It is 100% common in stupid people. Editors can't be held to any kind of standard like understanding that there's a difference between megawatts and megawatt-hours now, can they?

    • I want five megawatts by mid-May.

    • by lsllll ( 830002 )
      It's actually not that much. About $1400/month in most suburban areas.
    • They must mean megawatthours.

      • Unfortunately not.
        They mean: the mining rigs are constantly drawing 9MW, which means: each hour they consume 9MWh.
        So the total energy is 9MWh * 24h * 30 days - something like 6,500 MWh.

    • 34.2 Libraries of Congress per month (which is approximately 28 football fields)
    • It says it right there in TFS, are you a numpty? consumes seven megawatts of power each month -- enough to power 19,600 homes

    • The “each month” is superlative, but presumably it is 7MW continuously, or roughly 5GWh/month. Retail value of that energy (close to source) would normally be around $50,000.

      Now, the real question to me is why the Navajo Nation hasn’t sought help if so many of their people are without electricity. A basic setup to provide basic electricity for a home without any other source of power is about $1,200, including 650W of solar, 2kWh of battery, and 250W inverter. The most basic solution is

      • They are bone-achingly poor, they lack running water, electricity, broadband internet, etc.

        As an 'independent nation' they don't pay state or federal taxes or vote in State & federal elections, so they are cut-off from all sources of 'free money' from the government for infrastructure projects.

        • I get that (and feel the pain), but the grant access and tax deductions are still available— they just might need to finance tax deductions via a third party to take advantage. Personally I know one nonprofit that will finance up to 35% of the cost, plus tax deduction based financing credit of 30%, and you are looking at extremely low cost to the end user.

        • As an 'independent nation' they don't pay state or federal taxes or vote in State & federal elections, so they are cut-off from all sources of 'free money' from the government for infrastructure projects.

          Why are you lying? Indians, even those living on reservations, have every right to vote in Federal and State elections. Off-reservation Indians also have the right to vote in local elections. All tribal members have the right to vote in tribal elections for that particular tribe.

          Native Americans have been allowed to vote in United States elections since the passage of the Indian Citizenship Act in 1924

          Some states have laws that have made that difficult, historically, but by and large those barriers a

      • Read the article.

        It is not so simple as "oh we have no power", and "the bit coin miners" make our life hard.

        While it is super bad written, especially the misleading headline, it is informative.

        In other words: they have power and water. But not everyone. And the local utilities are involved in the project and are upgrading the power and water grid.

        On the first picture in the article, you clearly the normal domestic power lines.

    • It's like saying gravity is 9.8 meters per second every second .

  • by leonbev ( 111395 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @10:38PM (#61973461) Journal

    If these Navajo were more business savvy, they would have offered the land at a discount in exchange for a portion of the power produced by their solar plant.

    Hell, they should still actually DO that if the Bitcoin farm wants to expand. The smart Native American tribes stopped complaining about the evils of capitalism years ago, and embraced it by building casinos and payday lending organizations. These folks should look into doing something similar.

    • it's water. Data centers are almost always cooled with the stuff, and the SW is rapidly running out of it. But people want to put data centers there because the lack of floods and hurricanes means you can run 365 days a year without incident.
      • If you have cheap electricity then you don’t need water for [evaporative] cooling. You might need thermal storage so you aren’t running compressors against the hottest ambient air temperatures in the day, but it isn’t that hard. (You might run backup cooling with cooling towers which require some water consumption, but a more typical configuration would be a misting system on drycoolers for backup only.)

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      It's hard to be savvy when you are poor. The choice facing them seems to have been sell to these guys for just above cost and at least cover the running costs of the plant, or get nothing.

      Ideally they could have taken a loan to cover the cost of transporting the energy to where it could be consumed, but presumably they were not in a position to raise capital that way.

    • To protect Indian tribes against unscrupulous banks stealing their land most Native Americans can't sign contracts that turn over land to non natives. This is a double edged sword because it means they can't gain bussiness cash flow by borrowing against their land collateral. This is why things like "Indian" gaming casinos and land leases are so important to the development of their own capitalization. But this means you have to leverage the startup costs by letting outsiders profit . Someone had to pay

  • by anonymouscoward52236 ( 6163996 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @10:40PM (#61973467)

    The absolute best idea is: The Navajo nation are obviously getting something back from letting them mine. If the deal is not sweet enough, then yes they should charge more to the business for power or force them to install power utilities for everyone else. (I'd prefer the "force them to pay more", since that generates ongoing revenue for the Navajo nation.)

    IN ADDITION though, the Navajo nation should have a lightbulb appear above their heads and go: "DUH, we can just mine crypto ourselves, since it's so wonderfully profitable and we have very cheap power!" (Even if they turn around and sell it as it's mined. This idea is just so obvious...)

    • by RobinH ( 124750 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @10:51PM (#61973493) Homepage
      Yes, that seemed rather obvious until you realize it's not about the power produced by the solar panels, but the power you get by claiming to be a victim of the agreement you willingly made. Clearly there's historical reasons for the situation, but I don't think blaming some crypto company that made a deal with them that's beneficial to both parties has anything to do with the situation they were in before that. But... Blame Canada!
      • by Arethan ( 223197 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @11:02PM (#61973529) Journal

        on land belonging to the Navajo Nation

        This is, hands down, literally all they ever needed to win this game.

        Indian reserves are sovereign and can make up all manner of laws outside of the norms of the US. They effectively operate as a mini-nation. If they want more money, they can just invoke a tax against all crypto mined within their lands, or an additional tax against power that is used to mine crypto, or a specific tax against companies that are or were named "WestBlock Capital".

        They're literally holding all the cards while crying all the tears. Grow up.

        • Whoops, +1 Insightful, posting to reverse misclick.
        • on land belonging to the Navajo Nation

          This is, hands down, literally all they ever needed to win this game.

          Indian reserves are sovereign and can make up all manner of laws outside of the norms of the US. They effectively operate as a mini-nation. If they want more money, they can just invoke a tax against all crypto mined within their lands, or an additional tax against power that is used to mine crypto, or a specific tax against companies that are or were named "WestBlock Capital".

          They're literally holding all the cards while crying all the tears. Grow up.

          This. There's nothing preventing the Navajo Nation from raising taxes, or working a deal with the firm to work with them (and the state) to help communities to connect to basic utilities.

          The bitcoin rig owners hardly operated in bad fate, if at all. They saw power unused, and offered to buy it at a discount. Now the power plant is making more money.

          Communities being disconnected are not part of that equation, because that problem is not one for the firm to solve. This is a public policy problem (where t

        • by nucrash ( 549705 )

          They can tax all they want, but enforcement is quite another deal. We are also talking about Native Americans. Few people have been screwed over as much as they have.

    • I'd prefer the "force them to pay more", since that generates ongoing revenue for the Navajo nation...

      Taxing them also allows the revenue to support water and internet.

    • The navajo nation does NOT have 'cheap electricity' - the canadian crypto-miners only have electricity because they had enough money to buy solar panels and the local utility ran power lines to their facility because they had sufficient funds to actually pay for their electricity.

      The Indians can't build solar panels, can't buy crypto-mining rigs, and likely couldn't even build a building to house the mining rigs. They have no money, all they have is land and no jobs.

  • There is no issue here
  • by schwit1 ( 797399 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @10:57PM (#61973517)

    The bitcoin miners came to the Navajo Nation with an idea and capital in exchange for electricity and giving a piece of the action to the Navajo.

    Are the miners consuming a limited resource?
    If this is a bad deal for the Navajo people that's not the miners fault.
    If the piece of the action is not spent wisely that's not the miners fault.

    If exploitation exists it's Navajo on Navajo.

    • by JoeRobe ( 207552 )

      I agree with this. This doesn't seem predatory. This seems like a win-win scenario but one of the winners is unhappy that they're not winning enough.

      I would say this was a bad deal to start with, but I'm not sure that's even true. This was an unused resource (and green, to boot!), and someone came along and said "we'll give you money for half of your leftover resource". You can either not take the money and keep status quo, or take the money and see no ill consequences. The money that they offer isn't

  • Hear me out .... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by King_TJ ( 85913 ) on Tuesday November 09, 2021 @11:16PM (#61973549) Journal

    I don't want to come across sounding like an asshole here. But it seems to me the native American Indian tribes really have gotten some pretty sweet deals from the Federal government that they continue to moan and complain about. America doesn't exactly have a great history or track record of "making things completely right again" for anyone we conquered or took advantage of over the years. But you can't hold current generations responsible/liable for previous wrongs they had no part of, either. It's a pretty HUGE deal that our government allows tribal lands to be pretty much sovereign, and they can have such financial windfalls as their own casinos, which often have arrangements where the tribe is the SOLE collector of their revenue.

    At some point, one has to ask why their own tribal leaders are cutting such poor deals for their own people, if they're agreeing to businesses setting up shop on their land and it's really not beneficial for them? In this situation, I fail to see how it's really anything other than "sour grapes", and the unfortunately all too common attitude of "they OWE me", just because they have what you want? Sure, I get that this bitcoin farm might generate and use enough power to provide energy for 19,000 or so homes. Ok .... but who paid to put all those solar panels up and for the rest of the power being used? If the deal says they have to share some of the power with the native tribes on the land, then that's that much more power than they had before, right? Do they think they should just sit there with no utilities until a company comes along, and then they should just solve that whole problem for them at no cost to them? Good luck with that.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      The US didn't "conquer" the Natives: they made agreements with them to stop hostilities. Except, in almost every case, the Natives abided by the agreements and the US did not. It's harder to find an agreement that the US has actually honored.

      I don't know the details of this bitcoin farm, but I'd bet heavily it's another case of non-Natives making promises, and the Natives left holding the bag. It's not just a fact of history: it's still happens.
      • Lets not pretend the navajos had electricity for their people, then decided to give it all to a few nice canadians for a few blankets and beads. All the Navajos have is land, which they are (apparently) leasing to the canadians for some money. What is the navajo nation doing with that rent money?

    • by jpapon ( 1877296 )
      So your argument is "Sure, we brutally murdered your ancestors, stole their land, and then forcibly moved whoever remained onto the leftover land that nobody else wanted.... but now we're *letting* you build casinos, so we're cool right?"
    • I don't want to come across sounding like an asshole here.

      If you're worried about coming across like an asshole it's better to pay extra attention to how you word the controversial idea than draw attention to the fact it's probably offensive.

      But it seems to me the native American Indian tribes really have gotten some pretty sweet deals from the Federal government that they continue to moan and complain about.

      Some sweet deals yes, but also some real terrible ones. For me the litmus test is the welfare of the native populations which isn't that great.

      America doesn't exactly have a great history or track record of "making things completely right again" for anyone we conquered or took advantage of over the years. But you can't hold current generations responsible/liable for previous wrongs they had no part of, either.

      Yet the current generations of American Indians are still living with the consequences of those previous wrongs.

      It's a pretty HUGE deal that our government allows tribal lands to be pretty much sovereign, and they can have such financial windfalls as their own casinos, which often have arrangements where the tribe is the SOLE collector of their revenue.

      At some point, one has to ask why their own tribal leaders are cutting such poor deals for their own people, if they're agreeing to businesses setting up shop on their land and it's really not beneficial for them?

      The best form of governance for aboriginal communities is a difficult que

  • First nation leaders have a pretty solid history of signing shitty deals with the white man.

    • "I think [...] companies prey on communities like my own," said Puente. "My perspective is that we're being used." New world order. Same old story.

      • by Blymie ( 231220 )

        Is it?

        NTUA continues to provide basic utility services to the mine. Moalemi said that tax revenue to the Navajo Nation for these utilities over three years is approximately $48,000 USD, not including worker pay. He added that the land lease revenue for the nation over five years is approximately $60,000 USD.

        So instead of "This is generating local revenue", the result is "Give us all the power you're using and generating"?

        Or is the result "Now that you've setup, and leased the land, and become revenue profitable, we want to change the deal and want more"? After all, setup costs were:

        MacLean estimated that the build cost between three and five million dollars, and that the mine now holds equipment valued at $20 million USD.

        So they spent $25M US to build and buy equipment, AND there are ongoing employee + energy costs, along with other incidentals. EG, equipment replacement / maintenance, taxes, land leasing, etc etc. They're making 1.5M per m

        • Wishful thinking about jobs etc. They places are only popping up on the map because of the high cryptocurrency prices at the moment. They facilities at best are temporary as they often come preconfigured in sea cans on wheels, ready to roll on to the next place to exploit.
  • by bradley13 ( 1118935 ) on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @02:43AM (#61973895) Homepage

    A bitcoin mine is pretty dumb. But - the Navajo feeling like they're being used? They signed a deal with the Bitcoin company, taking rent in return for use of their land. They negotiated the terms - if they don't like the amount they are charging, who is to blame? All too likely the real problem is: the money is flowing into coffers controlled by the tribal leadership, and the average tribal members never see a penny of it. There's a reason local houses don't have electricity or running water, and it's not the bitcoin mine.

    I grew up not far from reservations, and this is the absolutely typical story you hear all the time. "Poor us, woe is us". Those tribal members who leave the reservation and join modern society do just fine. They can retain their culture without sitting in a hovel and whining about it. Those who stay behind, moaning about how unfair life is? Eventually one's sympathy runs out, because they could leave. Or, they could tell the tribal leadership to get off its collective, corrupt duff and do something useful.

    I'm overgeneralizing, obviously - some tribes do better than others. But the continual "woe is us" while doing absolutely nothing to improve their situation? That gets seriously tiresome, and deserved to fall on deaf ears.

    • Those tribal members who leave the reservation and join modern society do just fine. They can retain their culture without sitting in a hovel and whining about it.

      Part of their culture is tribal life, so they literally can't if they leave.

      Don't get me wrong, I've seen the reality of tribal members fucking over tribal members first hand, like literally people stealing wood off their neighbor's house for firewood, and of course people kicking other people off the rolls so they aren't tribal members any more, because they are slightly less native — mind you, their other parents were Mexican, which frankly is another kind of "native" "American". Consequently I have

      • Part of their culture is tribal life, so they literally can't if they leave.

        Don't get me wrong, I've seen the reality of tribal members fucking over tribal members first hand, like literally people stealing wood off their neighbor's house for firewood, and of course people kicking other people off the rolls so they aren't tribal members any more, because they are slightly less native — mind you, their other parents were Mexican, which frankly is another kind of "native" "American". Consequently I have no illusions that tribal members are any more noble than anyone else. But let's not pretend that the modern world is compatible with their cultures, it ain't.

        I don't disagree that the two are incompatible as currently implemented. If indeed one doesn't want to "live in the white man's world" and instead clings to "tribal life" as their culture, then they're relegated to a life of shitting in outhouses and living with no electricity or water. Or to live with the dichotomy that exists on many New Mexico and Arizona reservations of a few that live large and the rest that live in squalor. Somehow the former find a way to reconcile modern life with their "tribal w

        • It doesn't have to be that way, but in this day and age I have increasingly less sympathy for those who won't endeavor to change their circumstances.

          The big problem is that others changed their circumstances for them. Their prior way of life is now unsustainable due to literally deliberate attempts to destroy it. Aside from relocating whole tribes to other tribes' lands that they didn't know how to live on, perhaps one of the most visible examples of that is the near-extermination of the American Bison. They were killed off to make room for farming and for cattle ranching. Whole tribes can't survive as they used to without them. Coastal tribes are affec

  • by rew ( 6140 )

    Get your F-ing units straight.

    Assuming that "7 megawatts" must be "7 megawatt hours". At 7MWh/month that's only 10kW... You could have that in solar panels on a residential home....

  • When do these units stop? It's OK to say
    - megawatts
    - megawatt-hours per month

    Megawatts per month just outs the illiterate

  • I had a quick scan of the comments on this thread. Apparently, many slashdotters are racist bigots.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Ed Tice ( 3732157 )
      You must read at -1 because most of the racist comments are modded into oblivion which means that the majority of the crowd here is not engaging in conscious racism. The reality is that poor people (including native American tribes) often have poor leverage when negotiating. At the time these deals were negotiated they were probably thrilled to have the income. Now they look back and feel like they didn't negotiate hard enough. They probably didn't and could have gotten a better deal if they weren't so d
      • I don't know how the comment about them getting sweet deals from Uncle Sam is modded +5. The government has broken nearly every treaty that was agreed upon for centuries. Not to mention the little genocide thing too.

        Most of the smart people left this site long ago. It's mostly old cranky conservatives now who don't understand new technology or immediately write off any findings because they know better than the people doing the research. The ban crypto comments are the best because this site used to post De

  • by argStyopa ( 232550 ) on Wednesday November 10, 2021 @07:17AM (#61974399) Journal

    This is all about envy.
    Native tribes control their land.
    They could, TOMORROW enact a new rule taxing bitcoin mining in their territories and there's little the company could do about it than pay or move. They are taking advantage of the situation today, but could suffer from it just as quickly.
    (Given my experience with most native tribes, they're likely as not to stupidly, sort sighted, kill the golden goose anyway.)

    But this is purely about envy. They're using SOLAR power, so we can't bitch about their consumption, so we find something else to complain about. Why not complain about the Kardashian's being billionaires while outside their mansions Los Angeles is swollen with homeless? It's the same dynamic.

  • Been a few mothballed powerplants coming back online with huge promises of highpay data center jobs and NG powerplants. See North Bay and Kapuskasing Ontario for the two newest plants. What I don't get is how they avoid grid tariffs and carbon taxes which essentially everyone else must pay. Not to mention building codes etc. IMHO bottom feeding people taking as much as possible from society and giving nothing but spoilage back.
  • Ok, I spent way too much time surfing around. There are lots of articles out there, all crappy in different ways. Here are a couple of facts that seem to be generally agreed:

    - The solar plant produces a peak of 8MW. An off-the-cuff estimate: they could average around 50MWh per day of energy production.

    - The Navajo initially invested in an "equity stake" in the bitcoin venture, back in 2017.

    - They sold their stake this year, at a substantial profit. Presumably, the plant still pays rent for the land.

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