Over 50 PC Games Are Incompatible With Intel's Alder Lake CPUs Due To DRM (pcmag.com) 74
An anonymous reader quotes a report from PCMag: Intel has posted a release that the hybrid CPU core architecture on Alder Lake can be incompatible with certain games, specifically some protected by the anti-piracy DRM software from Denuvo. This was confirmed in our review of the Core i9-12900K when we tried to run the hit AAA Ubisoft title Assassin's Creed: Valhalla, part of our processor benchmark suite. The game would crash halfway through the test run, or simply not boot in at all. The errors occur because Denuvo's DRM software will mistakenly think the so-called "Performance-cores" and "Efficiency-cores" (P-cores and E-cores) on the chip belong to two separate PCs, when in reality the two types of processing cores are running on the same Alder Lake processor. (This P-core/E-core design is a new trait of Intel's chips with Alder Lake.)
Intel was originally mum on which specific games were affected, making it unclear the scale of the problem; the company cited "32" in pre-release briefings to the tech press. Whether these would be marginal titles or blockbusters we did not know, as hundreds of games use the Denuvo DRM scheme. But on Thursday, the company published a list of every PC title known to it that has incompatibility issues with Alder Lake. It spans 51 games, including For Honor, Mortal Kombat 11, Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order, and Shadow of the Tomb Raider, as well as the Assassin's Creed: Valhalla game we observed the issue on. Intel says it is working with game developers to roll out a software fix, although the company notes that some of the affected DRM-protected titles can run fine, so long as your PC is on Windows 11. In the meantime, the company says it has come up with a workaround that can run any of the affected games on Alder Lake. But it'll do so by placing the efficiency cores on standby. "According to Intel, 22 of the games won't work on Alder Lake under both Windows 10 and Windows 11," adds PCMag. "[T]he remaining 29 titles [...] will suffer incompatibility problems, but only when run on Windows 10. So owners can also solve the issue by updating their PCs to Windows 11 or using the Scroll Lock workaround if available."
Intel was originally mum on which specific games were affected, making it unclear the scale of the problem; the company cited "32" in pre-release briefings to the tech press. Whether these would be marginal titles or blockbusters we did not know, as hundreds of games use the Denuvo DRM scheme. But on Thursday, the company published a list of every PC title known to it that has incompatibility issues with Alder Lake. It spans 51 games, including For Honor, Mortal Kombat 11, Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order, and Shadow of the Tomb Raider, as well as the Assassin's Creed: Valhalla game we observed the issue on. Intel says it is working with game developers to roll out a software fix, although the company notes that some of the affected DRM-protected titles can run fine, so long as your PC is on Windows 11. In the meantime, the company says it has come up with a workaround that can run any of the affected games on Alder Lake. But it'll do so by placing the efficiency cores on standby. "According to Intel, 22 of the games won't work on Alder Lake under both Windows 10 and Windows 11," adds PCMag. "[T]he remaining 29 titles [...] will suffer incompatibility problems, but only when run on Windows 10. So owners can also solve the issue by updating their PCs to Windows 11 or using the Scroll Lock workaround if available."
two separate PCs?? does that messup other software (Score:2)
two separate PCs?? does that mess-up other software?
Do some things think it's an VM??
Re:two separate PCs?? does that messup other softw (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not sure why publishers keep using it as it has pissed off a lot more honest customers than prevented copyright infringement.
So that doesn't say much for other, properly engineered software.
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I'm not sure why publishers keep using it
Because it pleases the shareholders. Plus, as much as it sucks, it just needs to slow down the people cracking it long enough for the initial sales. Companies are starting to acknowledge how it's affecting the paying player base, but enough players have to be willing to boycott for it to gain traction.
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Plus, as much as it sucks, it just needs to slow down the people cracking it long enough for the initial sales.
100% true. Unfortunately, once there *is* a crack out in the wild, it serves no beneficial purpose whatsoever. Companies should be patching out the DRM once a crack is circulated.
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Why is user software even allowed to know about CPU details, anyway?
Isn't one of the OS's responsibilities to abstract away device-specific characteristics in a manufacturer/model-agnostic way?
fuck, they shouldn't even know what brand it is. "But my optimizations" well, see, correct functionality is more important. Software is a liability, causes systems to crash, eats up resources and is generally allowed to run unconstrained by default. That's absurd. By default, a program shouldn't even have read access
Re: two separate PCs?? does that messup other soft (Score:3)
You can't write deeply multithreaded code without knowing the number and kind of CPUs. For example, some functions might want to run on a low power core but not a high power core. And some operations benefit from hyper threading and others don't. Some operations need to stay on a dedicated thread.
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It asks for those from the OS. If allowed, it gets to run. It doesn't get to ask the CPU directly.
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Why is user software even allowed to know about CPU details, anyway?
A few examples:
Every few years we seem to get a new set of instructions for increased performance in performance intense code, Think stuff like MMX, SSE, AVX, etc. If you can't query the CPU details, you can't pick the best code path.
Hyperthreading is a mixed bag. For some workloads its a big boost, but for others it doesn't help. Highly multithreaded code might benefit from knowing how many cores vs threads there are.
Sometimes CPUs have bugs in them. Querying the CPU details can enable workarounds if neede
-march=native (Score:2)
Every few years we seem to get a new set of instructions for increased performance in performance intense code, Think stuff like MMX, SSE, AVX, etc. If you can't query the CPU details, you can't pick the best code path.
I guess in theory, the game publisher could distribute the game and its engine in source code form or at least some intermediate representation, to be compiled for a particular computer's CPU on that computer. Then only the compiler would need knowledge of what code path is best.
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Like every C# based game engine already does?
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Unity doesn't do that. It's always generated native code at build time. Modern Unity versions compile the C# to bytecode, then convert the bytecode to C++, then compile that with a native C++ compiler. (And it's far slower than it sounds)
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All of those are the OS's responsibility.
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Also, no access to hardware timers. By default you shouldn't even know what fucking time it is.
Every video game that isn't a traditional roguelike or otherwise strictly turn-based would then have to ask the user for permission to use animation timers. I doubt many users will activate any button other than "allow".
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However when it comes to Denuvo, it's the entire point of the software not to be satisfied with some abstraction. According to Denuvo's rationale such an abstraction that's done by some other piece of software could prevent it from distinguishing between different machines this defeating their intended activation limit implementation.
Hence
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> Denuvo is impossible to crack
*does search for Denuvo Cracked*
"Latest version of Denuvo has been cracked in a little over two weeks"
"Denuvo DRM cracks seem to be happening faster and faster"
"Denuvo 6.0 has been cracked"
"Denuvo cracker arrested"
either you're a paid shill dumbfuck or worse, just a colossal dumbfuck for free
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The strength of "uncrackable" Denuvo is that it is different with each game since it's included in the game source instead of being added atop it. This means that despite the experience and knowledge of cracking previous games each release is a unique challenge.
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Defeating custom copy protection by each author and software house has been a solved problem since the warez boards of the 1980s. .
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To be pair, DRM is a steaming pile of shit that's caused a lot of issues since its ill-advised inception. I'm not sure why publishers keep using it as it has pissed off a lot more honest customers than prevented copyright infringement.
FTFY.
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Maybe some anti-debugger or anti-emulation crap.
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Daybreak game instabans? (Everquest, etc.) (Score:3)
I wonder if using this chip will get one banned from Daybreak games, be it Everquest, Everquest 2, or others. From what I read, they do not tolerate, and will check for virtualization and treat it as an active exploit.
Probably the best thing to do is move to a less stringent MMO that doesn't care as much if the game runs virtually, although it can be said that cheats can be then done through the hypervisor layer.
Helpful list (Score:5, Funny)
That's a great way to decide what games not to buy.
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Re: Helpful list (Score:1)
Yar har har (Score:4, Insightful)
The game crack community has already saved the day here. Not to say that game publishers shouldn't be held responsible for broken DRM, but when all else fails we can always fall back to old reliable.
That said, purchase the game in question before cracking it. Support the developers!
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I do not support assholes who claim I'm a thief by default.
I use this list as a list of games banned from my PC. Did anyone already find out what publishers these games belong to or do I have to figure that "do not buy from these crooks" list myself?
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EA has been on that list for at least a decade now.
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Really is there any shock? (Score:5, Insightful)
The errors occur because Denuvo's DRM software will mistakenly
Yeah all DRM software requires hacky checks at the end of the day, unless the hardware itself has some manner to enforce DRM (which that touches on the most recent chips). As games age, any hacky DRM eventually gets in the way of playing the software on newer machines. Hence the reason why people say that EOL patches should include a removal of the DRM or "even better" stop using DRM protections altogether.
I'm not getting into a debate on if we need DRM or not. I'm pretty sure everyone can guess where I am on the topic, but that's not important. All DRM protections age like shit. There's never been a DRM scheme that's been a rock star on a long term basis. Now the Assassin's Creed: Valhalla is a bit of a more extreme case of this. This title is 2020 is chip is 2021 so for a year difference to break a DRM is a bit extreme, but I mean shit, it's not unheard of.
But with all the recent TPM 2 and newer schemes of DRM trying to stay ahead of those who pirate games, yeah this is going to happen and it happening as titles age will become a way more common thing. But this is their road they all wanted to go down, so plenty of things for them to learn all along the way. Their ship to wreck in my opinion.
DRM or anti cheat? (Score:2)
DRM or anti cheat?
this seems more like some anti cheat thing
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I wonder if the thinking behind it was trying to catch games that are installed on a shared disk - it sees the single install is being accessed from "two different processors" and assumes someone isn't ponying up with their filthy lucre.
but for steam games why need to this added BS (Score:2)
but for steam games why need to this added BS
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Steam DRM is minimal and cracked within minutes for the most part. So many steam games support Denuvo and other 3rd party DRM systems (there's a nice warning on the game's steam page when this happens).
What I see happening for DRM is social DRM. You can download a game from a site and it activates. Or you can download the file for offline install, but you will need a key. The key will be derived from private information you likely will want to keep private - e.g.
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Modern anti-cheat software is a form of digital rights management.
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All DRM protections age like shit
To this day, I still remember that the last verb starting with "b" in the verb list for King's Quest IV was "bridle". This is because I lost the manual and all of the other questions it would ask on startup were things like "what is the third word in paragraph 4 on page 17 of the manual". If you restarted it enough times though, it would eventually ask about the last verb starting with "b" on the verb list and I remembered that it was "bridle", so I still got to play the game. Those were the days! DRM has n
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which that touches on the most recent chips
Hardware doesn't enforce DRM. Hardware just does what it's told and stores security keys. The overwhelming majority of DRM isn't defeated by fooling the DRM into not triggering, it is outright stripped from the games. It's the reason why (in the case of Denovo) the pirated versions of the game have .exes that are typically somewhere between 1/4 and 1/10th of the size of the original release. Using hardware to enforce DRM is a fools errand and won't actually prevent any of the attacks.
Hardware security won't
Who knew (Score:2)
Monopoly Plus and Tourist Bus Simulator must be a lot more popular than I thought if piracy of those titles is such a concern.
Smells fishy -- bad fishy, not sushi fishy. (Score:2)
Denuvo's DRM software will mistakenly think the so-called "Performance-cores" and "Efficiency-cores" (P-cores and E-cores) on the chip belong to two separate PCs ...
It thinks it's running on two separate PCs, on literally the same PC, at the exact same time?
Re:Smells fishy -- bad fishy, not sushi fishy. (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm guessing that it periodically saves it's fingerprint of a system and if that check is scheduled on a different core, suddenly their fingerprint mismatches.
Probably not expecting to change systems all of a sudden, but they probably thought someone might save a memory snapshot or something to get past a DRM check, so they periodically recheck to see if maybe they were a resumed memory snapshot.
That's my guess.
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I'm guessing that it periodically saves it's fingerprint of a system and if that check is scheduled on a different core, suddenly their fingerprint mismatches.
Interesting... Can't you pin a process to a processor (or core)?
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I dont think you can even see the running DRM process, so you cannot pin it anywhere.
who'd be a gamer? (Score:1)
Blast from the past: Scroll Lock (Score:2)
The last time the Scroll Lock key was actually useful was back in the 1980's when various DOS systems existed. Even then, it wasn't terribly useful. Intel's workaround feels hacky and unreliable. Turning on Scroll Lock keeps a video game from crashing because the hardware/BIOS/UEFI recognizes that and some CPU cores stop functioning? Yeesh. I don't want to think about how that nightmare works. It's like the old Turbo buttons but now done entirely in software. Also there's a good chance that there are
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Turbo buttons, fuck yeah, those were the days. My PC would go from "slow" to "almost-as-slow." And it had a light to let you know you were in turbo mode, too.
Yeah no (Score:1)
Avoiding this steaming pile. Can we focus on the cores for us unix people with work to do?
New improvements break games? Dont Care.
how is this different? (Score:3)
Yet another reason (Score:2)
to avoid big publishers like the plague they have become and instead turn to indie devs. They generally don't have the money to waste on useless DRM that only pisses off your paying customers but doesn't keep cracks at bay for even a day.
Hacky CPU meets Hacky anti-cheat. (Score:2)
This is utterly excepted ever since anti-cheats have been attempting to bind their 'licensing' to specific machine loadouts.
Ubisoft was one of the first ones to have shit like this with their 'Good for 3 activations' DRM that would trigger when you so much as added a hard disk to your system.
Now with Intel basically showing your system different CPUs in different threads and different processes, it's completely unsurprising it's causing issues :D
Time to End the Business Model (Score:2)
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Aren't we tired of this business model around DRM in games?
I make a point of buying games on GOG.
BUT, the games on GOG are often out-of-date (compared to Steam), without alternate OS support, and without proper multiplayer support.
And then half the games are simply not available.
I guess market doesn't care enough for a viable competitor to exist?
Wintel bites again (Score:2)
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So owners can also solve the issue by updating their PCs to Windows 11
What a marvelously happy coincidence for Microsoft.
Stupid DRM (Score:4, Interesting)
It is bollocks. You don't need DRM to have good sales. You need good games.
Case in point: All these top selling games are DRM free on GOG, and still selling well:
https://www.gog.com/games?page... [gog.com]
CDPR puts all theirs games on that platform, and they still make money. Heck, they even made tons of money on the disastrous Cyberpunk launch. So, there is no excuse.
(Okay, *some* DRM is fine, sometimes, in limited context. But not Denuvo, Sony, or other things that interfere with the kernel, or plain old prevents legitimately purchased content from playing. Anything that will not run on Linux / Wine is also a no-no).
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I still remember when Doom Eternal was released. It accidentally included a Denuvo free exe in the subdirectory. Just remember that. This company paid a fortune for Denuvo and then bypassed it themselves. Deoom Eternal sold extremely well, despite it's "day 0 crack".
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All these top selling games are DRM free on GOG
I make a point of buying games on GOG these days.
BUT, the games on GOG are often out-of-date (compared to Steam), without alternate OS support, and without proper multiplayer support.
And then half the games are simply not for sale (available only on Steam).
I guess the market doesn't care enough for a viable competitor to exist?
Amiga flashbacks (Score:2)
This brings back memories of all the Amiga games with copy protection schemes that used move sr, <ea> and crashed if you had anything better than a literal 68000.
Sounds like (Score:2)
A Beowulf clusterfu*.
If they can't run on the new Intel, they'd presumably have had problems with SMP machines, which I assume are still around. Nor would they have tolerated Wine running on a MOSIX cluster.
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I do know, yes. Built my own opteron 2-way SMP box for home use. But distinct processors will not seem like the same processor. Yes, the Intel box is asymmetric but shares too much to be true AMP, so would be slower than two dedicated processors.
It looks like some software updates are needed (Score:1)