Some Texans Surprised Their Smart Thermostats Are Being Raised Remotely (wfaa.com) 252
Slashdot reader quonset writes:
With the heat wave gripping Texas, and in an effort to prevent another collapse of the power grid as happened in February during cold weather, Texas is, for the third day in a row, asking residents to conserve electricity. Some people in the Houston area have come home to find the temperatures in their homes are still warm (in the high 70s to low 80s) despite their air conditioning running all day!
A local Texas reporter tells the tale: The family's smart thermostat was installed a few years ago as part of a new home security package. Many smart thermostats can be enrolled in a program called "Smart Savers Texas." It's operated by a company called EnergyHub. The agreement states that in exchange for an entry into sweepstakes, electric customers allow them to control their thermostats during periods of high energy demand. EnergyHub's list of its clients include TXU Energy, CenterPoint and ERCOT.
They spoke to one Texas resident who obviously wasn't even aware of what he'd agreed to when the smart thermostat was installed. As soon as he found out, he immediately unenrolled from the program, complaining "If somebody else can manipulate this, I'm not for it."
A local Texas reporter tells the tale: The family's smart thermostat was installed a few years ago as part of a new home security package. Many smart thermostats can be enrolled in a program called "Smart Savers Texas." It's operated by a company called EnergyHub. The agreement states that in exchange for an entry into sweepstakes, electric customers allow them to control their thermostats during periods of high energy demand. EnergyHub's list of its clients include TXU Energy, CenterPoint and ERCOT.
They spoke to one Texas resident who obviously wasn't even aware of what he'd agreed to when the smart thermostat was installed. As soon as he found out, he immediately unenrolled from the program, complaining "If somebody else can manipulate this, I'm not for it."
Not a surprise (Score:3, Insightful)
Many municipalities in the US have had this in one form or the other for decades even before smart thermostats as an optional program you can enroll in. When you enroll they make it very clear they can turn off your AC for periods of time. They install special equipment that allows them to do it, but the smart thermostats make it easier to do. So just because some dummy said he didn't know about it doesn't make it news.
Re: Not a surprise (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes. We were enrolled in such a program in CA in the late 70s as I recall - in exchange for the ability to throttle the A/C during peak demand for periods of 15 or 30 minutes, the power company gave us a cash discount on our bill each month, no matter what.
The idea was they could shed load to avoid buying electricity from elsewhere, firing up a power generator, or start cutting power randomly.
I think it was a great program.
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However, when we got our AC system replaced recently, the system cam
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I just had a Ecobee smart thermostat installed by my power company. I'm in Las Vegas and we're getting 110+ temps and each afternoon, between 5pm and 7pm, my thermostat raises my 75F up to 79F. Apparently that 4 degrees helps power consumption. Who knew? I hardly notice the difference.
Pwned? (Score:3)
The big print states âBy participating in the Program, you agree to allow EnergyHub, Inc. and your thermostat provider to remotely access your thermostat to make brief, limited adjustments to your thermostat temperature setting at times of peak electricity demand in the summer.â
This is reasonable: itâ(TM)s the program.
However, the T&Cs state âoeDevices may automatically download and install software, firmware and other updates. By registering, you agree to receive such updates.â
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No, that actually is quite reasonable. Automatic updates are pretty common and normal thing. You not liking it, or choosing not to agree to it, does not in any way make it unreasonable.
And hence the the effect of the oft-mentioned 'slippery slope'.
Once it becomes 'common and normal', it becomes 'reasonable' in the eyes of the masses.
Private property rights are being co-opted more and more and more, by entities which make millions by doing so. Be they thermoststs, phones, tractors, computers, etc, 'sell it
Re: Not a surprise (Score:5, Interesting)
As a non-american I'm more surprised that these kinds of systems are in use in the US.
Surely the "freedom" and capitalist way is to have the market set price of electricity for every hour (or quarter hour) of the day, and let consumers of electricity decide if it's worth running the AC at 70F when electricity costs are the steepest?
To me this would be the job of a smart thermostat, it would look at weather forecasts, and look at day-ahead electricity prices, and perhaps decide to ventilate and cool the house a bit extra cold during the night when power is cheaper, pop out all the shades, ventilation to minimum and allow the temperature to ride slightly during the most expensive time of day, taking also into account when people tend to be home or not, and the price sensitivity of the people paying the power bill.
Some of these things are already possible in markets where power is sold spot-price+margin to consumers.
The smart thermostat described in the article isn't really smart, it's just a remote controlled thermostat.
Re: Not a surprise (Score:5, Insightful)
Surely the "freedom" and capitalist way is to have the market set price of electricity for every hour (or quarter hour) of the day, and let consumers of electricity decide if it's worth running the AC at 70F when electricity costs are the steepest?
Yeah you got that in parts of Texas, and what happened? People complained when they were charged $1000 for using electricity in one day as their contract stipulated. Morons used their power and then went winging to their politicians when they got a bill, and the politicians were out for blood against the power companies, while at the same time looking to green energy (because you can't go after power companies directly, you need a scapegoat).
Capitalism is only convenient when someone else pays. Yes you can charge me variable rate, as long as that rate is less than a fixed rate. Yes you can control my smart thermostat, providing my house isn't warmer than I want when I get home. - Signed: Morons.
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So Texans run their AC all day to keep the house cool just so they don't have to suffer through waiting 4 minutes when they get home?
Reminds me of a discussion I had with someone in Botswana while we were talking about places where it gets quite cold in winter. He remarked that it must be nice not to have to run the refrigerator a good part of the year. I just stared at him blankly as I had no way to tell him without embarrassment that we kept it running all year.
"If somebody else can manipulate this, “ (Score:5, Insightful)
"If somebody else can manipulate this, I'm not for it."
Welcome to your next blackout, I hope it was worth it.
Re:"If somebody else can manipulate this, “ (Score:5, Insightful)
Obviously there are too many selfish people who will ruin it for everyone else.
No smart thermostat? Imminent black out? Household power consumption current greater than X kW? Just shut off the whole house. Why let people who want to live in a dessert and also wear a sweater indoors take everyone else with them in a blackout because of the massive power they consume?
Because in a real capitalist society (Score:3)
they could buy what they want and use not be tied to a state backed monopoly that never upgrades or invests in their infrastructure.
How is the onus not on the power companies?
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I was surprised by the bit in the summary that talks about having the AC on all day while the owner is out, so it's cool when they get home. What an insane waste of energy, do people actually do that?
Re:"If somebody else can manipulate this, “ (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually, yes, they do, but I think it's because of a false belief regarding how to efficiently keep a house cool.
I was just telling my mom on the phone earlier that my house was a little warm after I got home from grocery shopping, because my ecobee turns the AC off when I leave. I'm in Texas btw.
She immediately quipped that she never does that, because she's been led to believe that's less efficient than if you left it at your desired setpoint all day. The idea begin that the AC will run more once you get home, getting down to your desired setpoint, than if it would if you just left it all day.
I had to explain to her that, through trial and error, I could assure her that it would take less time to get down to my setpoint than the amount of time the AC would run while I wasn't home. I think a lot of people have a false perception of that.
That being said, I am not not enrolled in this program precisely because I don't want anyone manipulating my thermostat. My electricity plan isn't limited, so I should be able to use as much as I want/need to use, and be charged appropriately. That's also, btw, why I laughed at the people getting $18k electricity bills in February; those variable rate plans were always insane, and I wouldn't have dream of signing onto one. The people who did and thought they were getting a stellar deal gambled and lost; I have no sympathy.
Re:"If somebody else can manipulate this, “ (Score:5, Informative)
I had to explain to her that, through trial and error, I could assure her that it would take less time to get down to my setpoint than the amount of time the AC would run while I wasn't home. I think a lot of people have a false perception of that.
It isn't about the time the AC runs, but about the cumulative energy use: time times power. The power draw of a heat pump is in a complicated way dependent on the temperature difference and air flow rate. Your AC will run at maximum power and - possibly - lower* CoP during a short time, while your mom's AC runs for a long time at a lower power draw. It's likely thst your strategy uses less energy, but you can't know that for sure without actually measuring the power consumption.
* The CoP is thermodynamically higher at a smaller temperature difference (hot indoors), but typically the CoP goes down when the heat pump is moving a lot of heat.
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> It's likely thst your strategy uses less energy, but you can't know that for sure without actually measuring the power consumption.
Daily is probably harder to measure but we would all agree, I think, that if it were a weekend house one could set the AC to 110F on Sunday afternoon and then have it kick back to 75F early Friday morning, right?
I mean, without measuring.
Re:"If somebody else can manipulate this, “ (Score:4, Interesting)
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It's a tricky position actually, since you are BOTH correct.
For short periods of time you are correct, even though the energy savings will be minimal.
But for longer absences, especially with only moderately insulated places your mother is correct. That's because if the AC is off for an extended period of time it will not have to only remove the heat from the air, but also the stored heat from the objects in the house - including the house itself. And since the house would likely be closed up when you are go
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On interesting and successful experiment I've been using is to leave the exhaust fan on. It basically sucks the hot air out of the top of the ceiling. It's extremely cheap to run and removes 15cfm of the hottest air in the house.
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Except as the house heats up, less thermal energy transfers in to the house from the outside. Once it reaches equilibrium, the thermal transfer stops. At night, the transfer will even reverse for free. That is, rather than paying for electricity to pump that heat energy out of the house, it's going voluntarily at no cost.
You also need to consider the temperature gradient the A/C is working against. Effectively it is pumping heat uphill in normal operation. So when the house is warmer inside, the hill is no
Re:"If somebody else can manipulate this, “ (Score:4, Informative)
Absolutely false [debtroundup.com], if you're only concerned with energy efficiency. But if you're on a time-of-use plan with peak pricing around the time you get home, it can be cheaper to start the A/C a little earlier before the higher electricity rate kicks in. Maybe that's what she was thinking of?
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My electricity plan isn't limited, so I should be able to use as much as I want/need to use, and be charged appropriately. That's also, btw, why I laughed at the people getting $18k electricity bills in February; those variable rate plans were always insane, and I wouldn't have dream of signing onto one.
I'm on a variable rate tariff but it has an upper limit to prevent me getting hit with insane costs. It's 100% renewable energy (no nuclear or fossil) and at night sometimes the rate goes negative, meaning I get paid to use energy.
If the thermostat thing was similar, limited to say 30 minutes and +2C, I'd be tempted to sign up. The tariff should be a lot cheaper and the effect on myself minimal, while saving the electricity company quite significant amounts of cash.
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Also, plenty of stuff around the house rots, melts, and otherwise behaves poorly when exposed to temperatures like that all day, repeatedly.
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First, there may be pets, and plenty of things are not happy being stored at 95F. So the AC may be set to something that keeps things bearable, like 88, and then half an hour or so before the person goes home, it should dial it back to 78 or whatever their normal setting is. There's a lot of latency in the process. If the AC was completely off all day, then it probably needs to run more like an hour before it can get the temperatures down. This is why even basic, non-smart thermostats have timers on them no
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I'm in Illinois - not even the hotter south. The last couple days, running the AC all day didn't get the house below 80 until well after dark. Turning it off while gone would have made it settle even higher.
Re:"If somebody else can manipulate this... (Score:2)
lol... I am on the central coast of California.
The high today was 66 degrees, sunny with a strong breeze blowing in off the ocean.
I haven't lived in a house or apartment with heating or cooling (other than opening/closing the windows) in over a decade.
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Which is one of the reasons it has become so expensive to live in California. It's really some of the best climate and scenary in the world in large areas of the state.
The other reason being restrictions on using land in large areas of the state (with the benefit of hindering or preventing urban sprawl)
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Yeah, because unless your system is massively oversized, if you let the temperature rise without bound during a very hot day, you'll never get it down to something comfortable to sleep in by the time you want to sleep.
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> Obviously there are too many selfish people who will ruin it for everyone else.
You might get a fairly big surprise, with your one size fits all policy. The meter doesn't know what the power is going to. Could be a marijuana grow operation. Could be life support for a dozen elderly people. Could be the special super-low temp freezers for COVID vaccine.
In two out of three (of those) hypotheticals, you could be in a world of hurt for turning off the power simply based on consumption data.
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"If somebody else can manipulate this, I'm not for it."
Welcome to your next blackout, I hope it was worth it.
Actually the backlash isn't too surprising, I can see why someone remotely taking control of your thermostat and changing the temperature would feel pretty damn invasive. Especially in this case where the person had an infant.
And really, all they had to do was put "control" back in the hands of the user by saying "you can set your thermostat to automatically adjust if the price jumps by $X", it's the same thing, but way less outrage.
Or even less invasive, have the thermostat set to beep/alert (or phone aler
Re:"If somebody else can manipulate this, “ (Score:5, Informative)
"If somebody else can manipulate this, I'm not for it."
Welcome to your next blackout, I hope it was worth it.
Interesting because you are blaming the victims here. They are literally paying money for power companies to keep the system working in all conditions. The ONLY reason this is because Texas doesn't follow federal regulations. You can claim about "regulator burden" and the like but the rest of the US doesn't have these power issues because of the regulations and yet power companies are doing just fine.
Texans are the victims here and ERCOT is the perpetrator.
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Interesting because you are blaming the victims here.
These people opted in into a smart savers contract that is explicitly made for the purpose of cutting peak demand and giving a payback to the customer. These people are not victims.
I completely agree that Texans are victims of a nonsensical and corrupt political system. But what do I know, I only have some friends in that area but I‘m German myself. We neither have AC nor blackouts.
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And the Texas legislature (which could force u
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So, there is not enough power for everyone, but you would still want to keep home comfortable at 72 degrees instead of 75. How about letting it all crash; like the blackout a few months ago, and have a warm welcoming home at 90 degrees?
This is still the "prisoner's dilemma" problem. If enough people are willing to let their thermostats go up a few degrees, them a small selfish population can continue having arctic conditions at home. However if everyone does it at the same time, then power grid fails.
Don't
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"... I'm not for it."
While his lack of trust is admirable, it's short-sighted and thus, selfish. The short-term consequence is obvious, everyone shouting "gimme, gimme", will cause another black-out. The long-term consequence is failing to ask why there isn't sufficient power: He should be demanding that his government ensure uninterrupted power, which they've already failed to achieve once this year.
Texans are getting the government they deserve which endangers their future comfort and safety.
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You REALLY don't understand CA's utility issues. (Score:3)
Indeed, in more civilized [places than California], infrastructure has not been cost-optimized to the point of black-outs, yet. But I guess raising the profits of utility companies is worth some black-outs to the voters in California.
You REALLY don't understand California's utility issues.
The state government imposed a series of regulatory schemes on Pacific Gas and Electric (calling the initial version DEregulation, of course) that hamstrung them, made them vulnerable to exploitation by organized crooks (e
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Or are the "electric companies" you're referring to the flock of ducks (such as the renewable energy schemes) that are nibbling the shambling zombie into the true death?
By the way: I'm quite the proponent of renewable energy. But I'm not a fan of scam corporations that exist to eat government subsidies that should be going to people who install it in their homes, or force PG&E to transport (and provide peaking generation for) energy the scam company buys cheaper from renewable energy sources and split
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PG&E is no innocent snowflake of a company, from my own experience with them. Tried to double bill me and my landlord. Fortunately, I'd kept all my utility bills. When the landlord got billed for my electricity, and came accusing me of having failed to transfer the electricity bills to an account of my own, as required in the lease, I had all the documentation I needed to show him that I had done the right thing and it was the scumbag utility company that'd messed things up. Funny that the error was
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But even if "not investing into the grid rather than down-regulating certain users" is only to raise their profits from some negative value to a smaller negative value, ...
Where are they going to get money to invest? They're BANKRUPT. That means they owe more than they have, and asked the government to keep the creditors from taking their stuff away and leaving the grid off.
And good luck getting anybody ELSE to give or loan them money. Would YOU invest a bunch in a company whose shareholders just had the
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Gotta love a government which while operating one of the richest economies in the world is unable to provide everyone with reliable electricity. I wonder what their plans is once significantly more EV's hit the roads, something which is heavily incentivized by the CA government too.
Re:"If somebody else can manipulate this, “ (Score:4, Interesting)
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Nonsense. To fully charge an EV at home should cost you between $3.00 and $8.00 total, which is nowhere near monthly electricity cost. Plus you can charge in the middle of the night when usage is low. You're just promoting more FUD about EVs.
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~$5 for a 10->90% charge at standard Texas power rates for a Tesla Model 3 SR+. Usually charged overnight when there's plenty of power in the grid.
Who is surprised by this ? (Score:3)
So people enrolled into a plan that allows their provider to control their thermostats when during energy shortages. And they are surprised when the Company remotely changes the settings ? Nice
Again people, do not put smart anything in your home or auto. Sadly many Autos come with these things and I am sure many new homes have these devices connected and embedded
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I'm amazed you've managed to post to /. using your mechanical typewriter but, I'm not sure what kind of pigeons you're using to read the posts so quickly.
Mechanical typewriter (Score:2)
You can tell by the use of the word "sadly."
This is really not a bad thing? (Score:5, Interesting)
If your power generation capacity is below consumption, you have to shed load. You can either do that catastrophically by waiting until failsafes trigger and eventually knock out your entire grid, by cutting off entire districts at once (preferably ones with people that can't afford political connections), or by lowering average energy consumption over the entire population.
The last method is the least invasive one.
Sure, they should've fixed their situation earlier by integrating the grid with neighbors, investing more in crisis management and lowering energy usage. But that's all Captain Hindsight stuff that - while it should still be done now in order to fight the next crisis - is completely irrelevant to the current one.
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Yeah but the first method (catastrophic failure) is capitalism, the second one (cutting off certain neighbourhoods) is a combination of racist or classist depending on whom you ask, and the final one (lowering the average) is communism. And we can't have communism in Texas of all places.
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I see you have heard of Governor Greg Abbott.
Yes. (Score:2)
This is really not a bad thing?
Yes, because this teaches energy companies that they can play fast and loose with energy generation while not having to provide the energy capacity that customers paid for. In the short-term avoiding completely failure is good. However, if the result of doing so it's to conclude that you must increase power generation capability then it's a bad thing because instead of being an emergency fail-safe it becomes a crutch.
Do you think people want to pay for subpar service that is hobbled to to put more money i
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Sure, they should've fixed their situation earlier by integrating the grid with neighbors, investing more in crisis management and lowering energy usage.
They have had two major crises in the last decade. We are WAAAY past the point of this being about hindsight. This will happen again.
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But that's all Captain Hindsight stuff that - while it should still be done now in order to fight the next crisis - is completely irrelevant to the current one.
It's entirely relevant to the current crises on their grid since it's the exact same shit that's been going on since at least the mid 90's. Almost every year. And they still haven't done shit about it other than rake in more profits while not investing in both failsafes against cold, and in consistently running at capacity that is around 90% in ideal conditions .
welcome to "smart" things. (Score:4, Insightful)
The humorous part is that they pay for the privilege of being screwed. "Smart" devices are owned by corporations, not the people who bought them. The fact that people keep buying these devices means the abuse will go unabated.
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of being screwed
If your idea of getting screwed is my house to be slightly warm in exchange for not having a sudden and uncontrolled blackout then hold up a second and let me get some lube because this sounds quite pleasant.
Re:welcome to "smart" things. (Score:4, Interesting)
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"in exchange for an entry into sweepstakes" (Score:5, Funny)
Re:"in exchange for an entry into sweepstakes" (Score:4, Funny)
Good hacking oportunity (Score:2)
And letting some script determine the temperatures randomly in all those house on a day by day basis.
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They're turning up others' temperature (Score:2)
Ironically, and tragically, they're turning up the thermostat for everyone including generations for millennia, as past generations have for us. If we wish they hadn't, we could change our culture to stewardship over self-indulgence.
Not my thermostat (Score:2)
As soon as he found out, he immediately unenrolled from the program, complaining "If somebody else can manipulate this, I'm not for it.
And he'll be one of the first to complain when they have outages ! See how well your A/C works with NO electricity !
In all seriousness, I don't like the idea that others can control smart t-stats (our utility can't, at least to my knowledge), in this case, it's only being done in conditions that may warrant the need to do this. They presumably weren't doing this 2 months ago when electric demand was manageable.
Some Texans too stupid to read an agreement they s (Score:2)
Fixed that for you.
The same Texans.. (Score:2)
Sure. You can adjust ... (Score:3)
Re: Sure. You can adjust ... (Score:2)
I put a pin lock on mine it's all digital and easy to figure out the set point.and how to change it. Before it was all digital nobody complained.
During the summer, even guests will notice the temp set point of 28c (about 80F) and whinge or set it to coldest setting.
But that just wastes power. It seems to be some kind of idiotic "we deserve absolute perfect comfort all the time" thing going on. There is no reasoning woth these stupid people that they're just wasting electricity and water. I Notice that other
These people did sign up, after all (Score:3)
The Smart Savers Texas is an optional energy saving plan that users explicitly opt into, allowing their thermostats to be raised when energy is in peak demand. I fail to see the issue.
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Half of them had no idea that's what they'd signed up for, presumably because the language used at the time was sufficiently obfuscatory and they weren't paying enough attention to realize something was up. I doubt that the language used was in any way fraudulent, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that they seriously buried the fact that you were giving them the right to adjust their thermostat.
Given other actions of the various providers on the Texas grid, this is absolutely no surprise to anyone.
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for me, this wording is *extremely* confusing.
>> Every time you participate in a temperature adjustment event
The subject in this sentence is you, even though it is not you that will participate but them that will make you participate. It really looks like you're going to be in control. Classic manipulation.
going for broke for sure (Score:2)
There's a simple solution even if they mandate. (Score:2)
Why no congestion price for electricity? (Score:2)
Why there is no peak hour pricing for electricity? I remember three time zones, business, evenings, nights & weekend for long distance calling not so long ago. Uber has congestion price. London introduced congestion pricing for all vehicles entering the city in 2003.
The reward should be a lot more than a chance to enter a sweepstake. Of
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Why there is no peak hour pricing for electricity? I remember three time zones, business, evenings, nights & weekend for long distance calling not so long ago.
Hello. Where I live they charge more for electricity from 2pm to 7pm, Monday through Friday.
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I made the some of these thermostats (Score:3)
A typical utility will use the last 10% of their infrastructure less than 20 hours a year. If you worked it out the cost for that marginal electricity in terms of fixed capital costs is likely in the $50 to $75 range. The ERCOT max was $7.77/kwh (I think it is now $9). Which means if your utility can buy the electricity for $7.77 they have to buy it. Over that price they can have rolling black outs. Also as the price approaches the ERCOT max many companies are under contract with the utilities to shed demand. The savings by having regular consumers shed load are significant. From an environmental perspective we are essentially subsidizing fossil fuel by having electric plans that only vary by 100% between the lowest price and the highest since renewables when they are available are always cheaper. The night time cost of electricity in many parts of Canada and the USA is close to 2 cents (yes, it goes negative in Ontario, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan but that's political stupidity) since wind and hydro can easily handle the demand. If we let people pay 2 cents at night and capped the daytime price at 80 cents the savings would be huge. One pilot I worked on in Oklahoma offered people two bills and they got to pay the lower. One bill was the traditional 15 cents off peak and up to 25 cents on the peak. The other plan was free electricity sometimes at night but the peak was 77 cents. The median savings of people who took advantage of the more variable rate was $50 per month and since Oklahoma Gas and Electric had such a high participation rate in this program, had they extended it to the entire state they would have been able to cancel construction on 2 billion dollars worth of peaker plants.
Then the politicians got involved. They wanted 100% of the savings passed on to the consumers. OG&E is guaranteed a return on their capital investments so they logically said screw that and built the peaker plants.
26C? And they are complaining? (Score:3)
Leaving the aircon on all day? Is that even a thing? I assume it is for people with solar, because that just is smart thinking, but otherwise..
I live in Australia, so not a stranger to hot weather. Leaving the air con on during the day is unthinkable. Sure, start it up an hour before you get home remotely, if you can, but all day?
Yes, I have taken into account that grids don't like people all turning on their large appliances at once, but that's what they have peak providers are for.
Just boggles the mind. Air con all day at LOWER than 26C.
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Texas malls are like meat lockers all year, with the doors constantly opening and closing. They're literally too cold, you wind up getting a total shock between the air conditioned car, the parking lot, and then the mall...
But Texas basically also invented driving excessive trucks around town all year, so the takeaway here should just be that Texas is still wasteful as a sort of hold over from the days when oil money was everywhere.
DRED and DRM for Airconditioners (Score:4, Informative)
I'm in Texas and enrolled in this program. (Score:3)
I held off for a few years from signing on, but I figured eh, why not give it a shot and see what happens. It was very clear what I was signing up for and how it worked. It did trigger in my house this past Thursday, raising my thermostat 4 degrees between 3pm and 6pm. The whole family got Rush Hour notifications on our Nest apps, so it wasn't a surprise. I had the option to turn the thermostat back down. However, since it wasn't THAT long to deal with, we toughed it out and enjoyed cooler air as the temperature automatically went back down after 6pm.
I honestly don't understand how anyone got surprised by this. Every step of the way it was clear what was going to happen. If someone else is signing up on your behalf, or if you're getting a free thermostat from an electric company... gawddamn read the fine print, people. Don't blindly give someone control to your shit, but also know nothing's stopping you from turning it back down yourself.
Re:Same old game plan... (Score:4, Funny)
Step 1: Notice that thermostats are being raised remotely.
Step 2: Get your gun.
Seriously? Step 4: *Talk* people into changing things? This isn't California, pal.
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This is *Texas*, though:
Step 1: Notice that thermostats are being raised remotely.
Step 2: Get your gun.
Heh. We just watched Texans not do exactly this recently. And they missed their opportunity to change the locks when Cruz left!
Re:Same old game plan... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is *Texas*, though:
...where people set their aircon to "arctic" then go out all day.
Apparently.
Re: Same old game plan... (Score:3)
The wildlings do that here in Phoenix.
Re:Same old game plan... (Score:5, Insightful)
Step 1: Offer people rewards for letting you change their thermostat
Step 2: Change their thermostat at peak demand times to keep the grid running
Step 3: Listen to whiners who didn't understand what they were signing up for.
Step 4: Post crazy conspiracy theory on Slashdot.
Re:Same old game plan... (Score:4, Informative)
Admittedly, this was different smart t-stat brands, so maybe the t-stat vendor makes a difference too. Nothing was hidden here. "We want to be able to change this setting so we can manage peak energy demand". Soo they did what they said they were going to do? The thing they stated clearly upfront? Quick, where do I hire a lawyer to defend myself against this egregious example of a company acting in accordance with the rules?!?
Re:Same old game plan... (Score:5, Informative)
The rules are not clear. Texas is using excessive complexity to hide price gouging from electricity customers. Ought to see how complicated some of the electricity plans are on their Power To Choose website. Need to bust out the calculus and probability theory to accurately estimate the real costs. However, they do follow a fairly simple pattern of offering a narrow sweet spot or two in which you get a great rate. Like, if you use between 950 and 999 kWh in a month. Stray outside that, and you get shafted. They do that to game the rules of the Power To Choose program.
For example, I signed up with Frontier Energy, for just 3 months. All communication was electronically, except for the notice of just when my contract would expire and I'd be automatically moved to a "month to month" plan at more than 3x the rate. That notice, those scumbags sent via snail mail. Technically within the law, but meant, of course, to be missed. Electricity providers in Texas pull every shabby trick there is to fool customers into overpaying.
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The rules are not clear. Texas is using excessive complexity to hide price gouging from electricity customers.
The rules about energy pricing in TX are an absolute cluster, I agree. But the part where they say "if you sign up for this program, you can get a discount" is, I am quite sure, explicit where it says "this program means we can adjust your thermostat". I would bet money there wasn't just a checkbox that said "Click here for discounts!" with no explanation.
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I'm sure you can just vote with your wallet, or your feet [sarcasm] and the Market will correct itself [ROFL sarcasm]
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Ought to see how complicated some of the electricity plans are on their Power To Choose website.
And here we have the internet which gives all an advantage. The ability for one or a few to figure out that complexity and share their work with other. Neat huh? I'm glad someone invented the internet otherwise I'd have to mail everyone a letter expressing one's feeling on the current situation.
Re:Same old game plan... (Score:5, Insightful)
Listen to whiners who didn't understand what they were signing up for.
Was it clearly stated in the sales pitch, or buried in 300 pages of legal jargon?
C'mon, we're tech people, here. We all know how much crap there is in a typical EULA and how you automatically opt-in to being screwed in any way the company can imagine. You think a smart thermostat company will be any different than a software company?
Re:Same old game plan... (Score:4, Insightful)
Your post shows absolute ignorance of the process that most Texas are subject to in choosing their provider.
Go check out the ERCOT Market Place" where these "Deregulated" consumers choose their provider. What they see is a scrolling list of around 1000 plans with a few numbers including base rate, max rate (which isn't the actual max rate just the max rate under normal circumstances), KWH break points on rates and couple of other estimates depending on their min/avg/max KW/hr usage per month. Many of these plans have words like "Saver" in their plan name, not all of which include these smart thermostats. Details like the ability to auto-adjust said thermostats are buried in the contract fine print PDF that they can choose to download. Just like details about extreme market situations and the ability of ERCOT to set rates thousands of times higher than normal may also be buried in these contracts. Everyone is just choosing the plan that given limited information and no fine print seems like it work best for their consumption pattern. It is impossible for a human to single handedly read all of these contracts and make rational comparisons across them or to even understand them without the help of specialized and very expensive attorney.
Most of these plans contain big lies since they present cost caps and then contain weasel words regarding ERCOT that really mean those cost caps are complete fiction.
There are very few non-deregulated cities in Texas and they are under enormous political pressure to join ERCOT. The non-deregulated cities have collective commercial bargaining power which the state does not like and these city utilities do not screw their customers during events like snowmageden.
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Re:Same old game plan... (Score:4, Interesting)
The smart thermostat I had installed a few weeks ago was entirely free. It talks to my wifi and I can go to a webpage and adjust it from anywhere, also it has an phone app that allows the same thing. All I have to is allow the power company to raise my temp setting a bit when theres a need. Checked out the Echobee thermostat they installed on Amazon and its a $139 item. We're currently in a high temp situation (I think we're gonna get to 114F today, Las Vegas ya know)..
and I noticed my thermostat shows its been readjusted from my normal 75F up to 79F.. Hardly even notice the difference..
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I think modern AC technology must be much more efficient than my creaky old unit.
It is. I have an about 3500 square foot house which is one of those that comes with two HVAC units. I spend 95% or more of my time downstairs. The original units were installed in 2004 or something like that. I generally left the upstairs unit off. When the main unit (the high capacity one that runs the downstairs) died, I replaced it with a new unit and paid a bit more to get a higher capacity and Energy Star rating. It manages to keep the upstairs decent, and I use that upstairs HVAC unit only to circula
Re: (Score:2)
So I put in a window unit and my bills *dropped* while the house is actually cooler.
I think modern AC technology must be much more efficient than my creaky old unit.
I bought my (small) house 9 years ago, and it didn't have central air. I figured I'd get that installed eventually, but since they had just put a new furnace in, I decided to go with a couple window units for a while.
Anyway, I'm still just using those. They are surprisingly cheap to run, allow me to cool just the room I'm in, and if one breaks I can just replace it very easily and affordably.