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Facebook Privacy The Almighty Buck Hardware Technology

Oculus Will Sell You a Quest 2 Headset That Doesn't Need Facebook For An Extra $500 (pcgamer.com) 101

An anonymous reader quotes a report from PC Gamer: The Oculus Quest 2 is a hell of a lot of hardware for $299. In fact, we're convinced that Facebook is making a loss on each unit sold. Even so, that pricing is one of the main reasons it's the most popular headset on Steam and our pick as the best VR headset. Well, that and the ease of use. [...] The thing is, that price seems too good to be true, with no other manufacturer's VR headset close to the specs list of the Quest 2 -- in either tethered or standalone form -- hitting the same low, low price. That money gets you a robust virtual reality headset with 6GB of RAM, a Qualcomm Snapdragon XR2 CPU, 64GB of storage, 1832x1920 per eye display and a pair of controllers. [...]

But there's one factor that could potentially offset that price -- Facebook has access to a whole lot of your data. This is something the Oculus Quest 2 is upfront about: You absolutely need a Facebook account in order to use the device and it does have its data collection policies in black and white. Although what isn't quite so obvious is how much your data is worth to Facebook. At least it isn't without a tiny bit of digging.

There is another version of the Quest 2 that isn't as discounted as the consumer version, and that's the one aimed at businesses. The actual hardware is identical, but the difference is you don't need to login in with a Facebook account in order to use it. The price for this model? $799. There's also an annual fee of $180 that kicks in a year after purchase, which covers Oculus' business services and support, but that just muddies the waters a little. The point being, the Quest 2 for business, the headset from which Facebook can't access your data directly, costs $500 more. So that's looking essentially like the value the social media giant attributes to your data, which either seems like a lot or barely anything at all, depending on your stance.
The Supplemental Oculus Data Policy outlines what sort of data is actually being collected when you use the Quest 2. Such things as your physical dimension, including your hand size, how big your play area is using the Oculus Guardian system, data on any content you create using the Quest 2, as well as more obvious stuff like your device ID and IP address.
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Oculus Will Sell You a Quest 2 Headset That Doesn't Need Facebook For An Extra $500

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  • by Moof123 ( 1292134 ) on Thursday April 29, 2021 @06:30PM (#61329838)

    Hadn't heard it was still alive. All the fan bros have stopped claiming I'd need to make sure my next house would have a spare room to dedicate to VR.

    • by feedayeen ( 1322473 ) on Thursday April 29, 2021 @06:39PM (#61329842)

      People still play video games? Ugh, why can't Millennials grow up, walk up to a hiring manager, and get a 9-5 job for the next 50 years and be miserable like the rest of us. /s

      • by ghoul ( 157158 )
        What makes your comment so sad is that some Millennials did follow your advice.

        They got hired to QA test VR headsets for the next 50 years and are miserable from the headaches that too much VR will give you;)
        • by Dareth ( 47614 )

          They also got the "stress" from having a mortgage and "living in their own home".

    • by Anonymous Coward

      No kidding. I am still hoping this user

      https://slashdot.org/comments.... [slashdot.org]

      will show up again....

      There are a few things that nerds lose their minds over
      1) Space and Space Nuttery like colonizing the Moon, etc
      2) 3D printing
      3) VR

      • It is not a few things. You left out a whole bunch of other things in biology (gene editing, in-vitro gametogenesis, neuralink) and then there is fusion energy, superconductors, quantum computing, nanometer scale CPU, assorted new physics stuff.

        • You left out a whole bunch of other things in biology (gene editing {...} neuralink) and then {...} superconductors

          Well those actually are production, they are just not the shiny cyber-punky dreams that the fluffers^H ... the marketing sold to investors.
          The real-life usage is much more mundane and boring.

          Gene editing:
          - Nerds' dreams: Like BioShock's Plasmids! Instantly patch-in some genetic super power, with a simple jab!
          - Real-life: Now thanks to CRISPR-Cas9 some biology PhD students are able to transform a few cell-line a little bit more easily than with old-school approaches(*).

          Neuralink:
          - Nerds' dreams: Go on full G

      • I can only surmise that that user is in hospital having consumed his own shorts.

      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward

        No kidding. I am still hoping this user

        https://slashdot.org/comments.... [slashdot.org]

        will show up again....

        I'm still here, I just can't log in anymore because my password was written on my shorts.

    • VR has been growing every year. The UI has been getting better, and more software has been coming out, so now it's actually worth buying.

      Also, they've adapted it for the lazy, so you can play most titles sitting down. No need for the full room.

    • Lawnmower Man anyone? VR was supposed to be the Next Big Thing in the 90s. I've only had 1 co-worker try to sell me on it recently, and that was for porn (I'm guessing the money spent on this would go a lot further with actual hookers).

    • Hadn't heard it was still alive. All the fan bros have stopped claiming I'd need to make sure my next house would have a spare room to dedicate to VR.

      You must have been in a coma this past year which saw multiple triple A VR titles released along with the continued exponential growth of VR.

      You're right about one thing though: No one is going to claim you need a spare room dedicated to VR. Mind you I didn't know anyone who has ever claimed such a thing. Hell man it's 2021, you don't even need to be in your house to play VR games anymore. Grab your headset and head down to the beach or the park. https://www.oculus.com/quest-2... [oculus.com]

    • by bluescrn ( 2120492 ) on Friday April 30, 2021 @04:56AM (#61331296)
      VR was almost becoming a thing until Facebook pretty much killed it. PC VR was a very cool experience (for those who could handle the 'VR sickness'). But then Facebook discontinued the Rift, tied things to FB accounts, and focused on mobile VR.

      The Quest 2 is a pretty impressive device, and mobile may have been the future of VR, but mobile GPUs really aren't up it yet. You need a beast of a GPU to render a high-end game scene at a high resolution and FOV twice per frame (stereoscopic) at 90fps.
      • Oh please, Facebook didn't kill it, quite the opposite. Mobile VR is the future, mobile VR which can also be used as a PCVR headset, like the Quest series. Oh dear oh dear, you have to use a Facebook account on a device made by Facebook, just like you have to with playstation, xbox, nintendo, google, apple. It's not like you have to use the social media part of it, you can set about everything to off. It's actually thanks to Facebook VR is going somewhere for mainstream. But if you don't want a FB headset j
        • Oh please, Facebook didn't kill it, quite the opposite. Mobile VR is the future, mobile VR which can also be used as a PCVR headset, like the Quest series.
          Oh dear oh dear, you have to use a Facebook account on a device made by Facebook, just like you have to with playstation, xbox, nintendo, google, apple.
          It's not like you have to use the social media part of it, you can set about everything to off.
          It's actually thanks to Facebook VR is going somewhere for mainstream. But if you don't want a FB headset just wait a few weeks and HTC will show their new headset or buy a Pico Neo 3 which is also released in may.

          Facebook definitely did kill the VR market when they decided to make mandatory participation in the cancer known as social media a requirement to use a device that has nothing to do with social media. They aren't innovating anything in the VR space beyond using it as a tool to spy on you and siphon up even more data to sell you to advertisers. Facebook is constantly in the news for some new low they've sunk to, or some new violation they've committed that they pretend they didn't know anything about. Nothin

          • Oh please get your head out of your ass with your hatred for Facebook. You are really naive to think that a company like Apple for instance is any different, yeah they act like they care, but in reality they save everything to their servers, and get you hooked like a junkie is for heroin. Yeah, ofcourse not everything is happy happy joy joy with having to use Facebook, but as I said, you don't have to use the social media part, and you can switch off a lot of stuff. Again, Facebook did not kill the VR marke
    • Hadn't heard it was still alive. All the fan bros have stopped claiming I'd need to make sure my next house would have a spare room to dedicate to VR.

      VR ping-pong on Oculus is very cool. At some point your brain thinks the table is real and you will put your hands on it.

    • The Quest 2 is selling in the millions, and PSVR still sells and PSVR 2 is expected in 2022.

      My guess is that it's finally started going mainstream, which is why the hype has died down. Sure, it doesn't yet compare to console sales, but it's becoming a reasonably large market.

  • ... save $500.

  • You don't have to work, just sell your data for $500. And not just once, as many times as you want. Who wants it?

  • Rich early adopters abound and will enjoy testing while the rest of us can wait for hardware improvements, no TOS BS, and lower costs.

    • This stuff is well beyond the beta stage and prices have come down quite a bit already. The point is: lower costs are already here ($300) if you don't mind dealing with Facebook. If you do mind the TOS BS, the closest competitor on the market will set you back $700 or so. Still not a bad price, especially if you factor in the price of your soul.
  • by ctxspy ( 94924 ) on Thursday April 29, 2021 @06:51PM (#61329876)

    Facebook requirement is the #1 reason I did not even consider Oculus. I absolutely abhor when two completely unrelated things are arbitrarily made dependent on one another. I bought a pimax artisan headset. I like the wide field of view, works well with MSFS2020. I'm hoping in the next couple of years to upgrade my computer and headset again and get 4K per eye with good framerates.. I also want to buy a motion seat, just saw the yaw2 on kick starter. I think this is an exciting time for gaming - I haven't been interested in 20 years and now VR has rekindled my excitement!

    • by JaredOfEuropa ( 526365 ) on Thursday April 29, 2021 @06:59PM (#61329904) Journal
      You can imagine the outrage of those who backed Oculus kickstarter campaign back in the day, helping the company to put out a viable product, only to have the founders sell out to Facebook of all companies.
      • Yup. I held my nose when Facebook bought Oculus and still got one (they did have the best touch controllers), but the day they announced a Facebook login requirement to USE FUCKING GAMING HARDWARE is the day I swore the Rift CV1 would be my one and only Oculus product.

        • Yes exactly! The VR hype was starting to get to me. I started to look at all the hardware options and found that most of it was out of my price range. When I heard about the relatively cheap Oculus I was dead set on making the purchase as soon as I could scrape up the cash.

          Then I found out about the mandatory facebook login. Ah, hold up! Something not right about that creep ass shit. I dunno what it is, but I do know that I won't have any part of it. Fuck that, nope

      • You can imagine the outrage of those who backed Oculus kickstarter campaign back in the day, helping the company to put out a viable product, only to have the founders sell out to Facebook of all companies.

        Not really. Facebook poured a fuckton of money into Oculus with the promise that it would remain separate. There was no outrage at the time and the acquisition from Facebook has from a technology point of view been one of the most positive things for VR in general as the first step that actually brough VR from a niche oddity to something that a large technology company was interested in. People who were kickstarting Oculus had 9 years of great products to play with. The products themselves got even better a

      • Why? They got their headsets, and the current one is a completely new beast. As a backer myself, I have no problem with them selling the company to FB, if they hadn't DK2 would have been about the first CV1 and that would have been an awful thing. It's been a long time and Oculus actually succeeded in what they were set out to do, bring VR to the masses for a low price. And people crying about the so called promise by Lucky to not need a FB account us laughable and in fact is still true, as with the hardwar
    • Years ago I very much wanted Sony's Glasstron television glasses. While pouring through the fantastic tech details I stopped in my tracks when I read, "Not to be used more than two hours in one sitting." (paraphrasing) Well that was a bummer.

      Any such warnings on any of these VR sets? Or has technology advanced enough that this isn't an issue anymore.

    • How do you get 4k per eye if the screens are actually 1700*1440 each, as per their website at https://pimax.com/product/pima... [pimax.com] ?
      • The artisan is not 4K per eye. Their âoe8Kâ product is, I believe. Part of why I didnâ(TM)t get that was the price, and part was performance, in that current graphics hardware canâ(TM)t adequately power it anyway especially for MSFS2020.

        Hence I am hoping in a couple years it will be ready

        • My bad, read more into your comment than you put. Indeed, their 8k glasses are 4k resolution per eye. The rest should be fairly similar. How are the Fresnel lenses, do you notice them clearly versus smooth type lenses? Any optical effects?
    • Facebook requirement is the #1 reason I did not even consider Oculus.

      You should be happy that you were able to make an informed decision. I bought an Oculus before Facebook was a requirement and now it just sits here gathering dust. Wasted money. I could swear there were laws covering changing a sale after the sale has been completed, but here we are. They have my money and I have a useless piece of equipment that physically works but logically doesn't.

  • So take out the 180 bucks they don't charge for the first year of support, and you get 320 extra. Even then, don't exactly know if Facebook is overcharging developers from over BoM+R&D with this price, given they may either want to incentivise app development, or don't mind charging more to whoever wants to profit from software, but we can assume the former so let's say the actual cost is effectively 799.

    All that aside, let's not forget this is effectively an Android device, and despite the recent trend

  • by JediJorgie ( 700217 ) on Thursday April 29, 2021 @07:22PM (#61329984)

    > essentially like the value the social media giant attributes to your data

    That is BS. The difference in price is the combination of a 2 year warranty, 24/7 enterprise level support, and the loss of any profit from Software because the Oculus Business devices cannot access the Oculus Store.

    The Quest is a console. Its price is as low as it is for the same reason the Xbox and PS are priced the way they are, because they make a lot of money from software sales. That is not the case with the enterprise version because, as I said, enterprise devices cannot use the public store.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      My question is: If the hardware is identical can I buy the cheaper one and convert it to the more expensive one for free?

      • My question is: If the hardware is identical can I buy the cheaper one and convert it to the more expensive one for free?

        What for? Do you often buy a console for not playing games?

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Hmm, so can it not play games at all? I didn't realize that, just figured it meant you didn't need a Facebook account to play. If that is the case then this thing is dead to me anyway.

      • There is nothing to convert, you can upgrade it to a business account, but that will cost you.
    • Came here to say this. I use both commercial and business editions of the Quest for my job. If anyone has sincere questions about how it works, or some of the differences between the devices, I'm happy to answer.

    • Also, *everything* in tech marketed to businesses is typically sold at a premium.

  • If Facebook can afford to sell these at a loss and their competitors cannot, they should be investigated for antitrust. That's predatory pricing. Sony and Microsoft have long done a similar thing, and Nintendo was lucky to innovate their way into staying in business. While it's great that Nintendo was able to stay afloat, the strategy to make them unable to compete for the high-end graphics systems worked and could have easily forced them to sell. By selling at a loss, only other behemoths who can absorb gr

    • Selling things at a loss isn't worthy of an anti-trust lawsuit. I don't know why but it's legal.

    • by stikves ( 127823 )

      This is called the "razor and blade" model, named for Gillette razors. Inkjet printers do that, Gaming consoles do that, ad supported Kindles do that.

      Given Oculus comes with an app store, is more like a console having a subsidy there is not unexpected.

    • If Facebook can afford to sell these at a loss

      Calm down buddy. No one said any such thing.

      and their competitors cannot, they should be investigated for antitrust

      You can investigate them all you want. Selling loss leaders by themselves is not an antitrust violation. There are a lot of market related factors that need to be considered before something becomes an antitrust violation.

      That's predatory pricing.

      Which is only illegal in very specific contexts of the market.

      By selling at a loss, only other behemoths who can absorb great losses will be able to compete in the VR headset realm.

      I'm sure Sony, HP, Microsoft, Google, and Valve will really struggle. Now if you want to really get outraged, go buy a razor and shave. There's predatory pricing right there!

      • I think there's a key difference between a loss leader that requires such an abundant amount of revenue that only other behemoths can compete with and cheap commodities like razors (however, I'm fairly confident that modern safety razors are not sold at a loss, judging by their price and the cheap materials they're made of). Basically, the investment/liability in the loss leader becomes untenable for smaller companies and they are forced out of the market.

        You're right that this is only illegal in very speci

        • You're right that this is only illegal in very specific contexts, but my argument was that this should be one of those contexts

          Why? The loss leader in this case is not targeted at any competition but rather at market adoption itself. There is zero evidence that it is having a negative impact on competition.

          however, I'm fairly confident that modern safety razors are not sold at a loss

          They absolutely are. They are a textbook example and it's also easily verifiable. E.g. just looking at my local supermarket website a Gillette Fusion5 with 6 blades costs 34.99EUR, and the Gillette Fusion5 refill pack costs ... 34.99EUR, or 70EUR for a 12 refill. They literally give the razor away for free and always have.

          The argument ought to be about what should or should not be legal.

          Except

    • It is a simple loss leader product where Facebook plans to make up the loss by selling the data you have allowed them to collect for as long as you own the device to anyone who has a checkbook.

      THAT is the tradeoff with the price.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    that you're the product

  • I would love to see this figure cited if there's ever some kind of class action suit brought against Google or Facebook relating to the value of private information they vaccuum up and use in various (sometimes secret) ways.

  • There is one thing missing in the article : people who buy the "consumer" version of the quest 2 are likely to buy games from the oculus store, which includes a part for Facebook.

    So, when you're buying that "consumer" version, you get a discounted price, like when you buy a PS or XBox, which takes in account the revenues linked to the games that you'll buy.

    When you buy the professional version, you won't buy any game... so you get to pay the full price.

    The difference is not the value of your data... it's mo

    • The difference is not the value of your data.

      That might be true if it didn't collect so much data and require that data be attached to a FaceBook account. Facebook's primary revenue comes from selling data about it's members and their friends, even people who aren't on FaceBook.

  • I am willing to wager that in less than 1 year it will be cracked and someone will come up with a work around. they always jailbreak iPhone over time, and I am sure that Facebook does not have the better security than iPhone

    • And then what? You'll have a headset that has no services, and if it's 'free' software you want, you can already do that through sideloading.
      • should still have everything working, just don't need to give your data

        • Uhh, no it won't as for a lot of services to work, you have to connect to the facebook servers, so without account, no dice.. And to be able to buy stuff from the oculus store you need a facebook account.
    • The difference is that the headsets phone home when used and that opens an avenue for FB to brick it because you "broke the terms of service".
      • yep that could be true... yet that would bring up a load of problems with the federal government and the right to repair issues. there is enough to make a case now-a-days

  • by nehumanuscrede ( 624750 ) on Thursday April 29, 2021 @10:30PM (#61330520)

    The fact that the parent company is Facebook ensures I will never own one even if it were given to me free of charge.

    • Yep, same here. The day that Facebook announced they purchased Oculus I swear I heard doves crying outside my window.
  • Whats to stop someone simply making fake face book acounts and buying the $299 version ?
  • using this as proof of them selling data etc ?
  • by smash ( 1351 )
    ... how long until someone hacks the Quest2 hardware to flash the non-spyware firmware into it?
  • $500 of worthless useless data is a lot. The real question is why is such data worth so much when no one uses it to make money off of me?

    I respond to zero ads on purpose.(accidently clicks are annoying) I respond to zero brands because I saw the! On Facebook or Google and routinely use whatever tools I can to mark spam or in apportiate as I can.

    I get 100% useless ads so why is that data worth so much when it doesn't get me to spend any money on anyone's service who uses Facebook or Google ad services?

    Becau

    • $500 of worthless useless data is a lot.

      You don't understand how it works. It is not like you are selling a CD of information for $500. They are knocking $500 off the price to be able to get all the information they glean from your use of the device for as long as you own the device and tie it to your FB account which provides a ton of data including but not limited to demographic data, location data, relationship data, interest data, and the ability to connect you to other people who are not on FB through facial recognition software. That means

  • Now that we've got a good idea our data is worth $500 it should make it a no-brainer when there's any court cases with Facebook. I'd imagine that this even sheds some light onto the case in the UK about google tracking safari users who had "Do not Track"
  • It says you need a Facebook account, not your Facebook account.

    Just register a new Facebook account, never use it for anything and use it.
  • Lots of products have versions with relatively small differences that sell at very different prices. Itâ(TM)s a common strategy of price segmentation.

  • Maybe the writer of the article should actually do some homework before writing such an article. Business versions of the Oculus headsets (hell even with HTC) have always been much more expensive due to the nature of the license). Do some investigation in the actual hardware and you'll see the $299 is just slightly above the price of the actual hardware used. HP for instance has to get all it's earnings from the hardware itself, they don't have an app store where the actual profits should come from. Faceboo
  • as the cost of not having Zuck spy on your every move? Not bad but...

    Not using Occulus or Facebook ?

      That is priceless.

    Go take a running jump off a cliff Zuck and don't take a parachute with you.

  • This is why I like my Gen 1 HTC VIVE. Simple up front cost to buy it, no software tie-in, no stealing info about me. Was it expensive as all hell to be an early adopter? Yes, always is. Still, better than being spied on constantly.
  • Occulus sees themselves as entitled to "data on any content you create using the Quest 2." This is what's wrong with VR, and why it isn't going anywhere. VR is stalled because they have surrounded it with the walled garden way too early in its product cycle. Content (data) is where the innovation is. If they sell me a headset, they are basically saying they will take any content I create and load on the headset as their property. Also, I'd like to know how good the documentation (SDK) is before I buy anyt

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