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Power

Wind Replaces Coal As Main Source of Power In Germany (heise.de) 329

Qbertino writes: Heise.de, a German tech news publisher, reports that wind has replaced coal as the main source of power in Germany. From the report: "The share of renewable energies in the amount of electricity generated and fed into the grid domestically rose from 42.3 percent in 2019 to 47.0 percent last year. At 25.6 percent, wind power was the first renewable energy source to have the highest share of the amount of electricity fed into the grid in a given year, replacing coal as the most important energy source. In 2020, 5.4 percent more electricity was generated from wind power than in 2019, when the share had been 22.8 percent..." (Sidenote: Paragraph translated by deepL in seconds; [I] find it quite feasible as a German and English native speaker. Color me impressed.)

This is not much to brag about yet because Coal is still buffering large parts of the nuclear fission exit Germany is doing, but it's a good milestone. By and large, the article concludes that Germany's exit from nuclear fission is going in the right direction.

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Wind Replaces Coal As Main Source of Power In Germany

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  • by K. S. Kyosuke ( 729550 ) on Saturday March 06, 2021 @08:04AM (#61129944)

    This is not much to brag about yet because Coal is still buffering large parts of the nuclear fission exit Germany is doing

    The fourth chart on this page [cleanenergywire.org] paints a somewhat different perspective than the sentence above seems to be suggesting, namely a rapid decline of coal in the past several years.

    • by Uecker ( 1842596 )

      Yes, the sentence is misleading. Coal was never buffering a large parts of the nuclear fission exit in Germany.

      One could claim that it would have been possible to exit coal faster by delaying the fission exit, but this something else.

    • by tomhath ( 637240 ) on Saturday March 06, 2021 @09:05AM (#61130072)
      The first few graphs depict energy generated in Germany, but ignore energy imported in the form of oil, gas and electricity generated outside the country. Scroll down a bit farther to the chart labelled "German energy sources' share in primary energy consumption" and you'll see a more honest picture.
      • but ignore energy imported in the form of oil, gas and electricity generated outside the country.

        1) Since this is about electricity, oil imports are not relevant here.

        2) Gas as a source is already included.

        3) Electricity imports are practically inconsequential when total amounts of generated electricity are considered, and Germany is a net exporter anyway.

      • depict energy generated in Germany

        No, they depict electrical power generated in Germany. (Hence your confusion, perhaps?)

      • "German energy sources' share in primary energy consumption"

        Primary energy consumption and generating electricity are two VERY different things. Germany can have 100% green power, and 0% imported electricity and their primary energy consumption would still list things like oil and gas, which Germans consume regardless of if they use electricity or not.

  • by dmay34 ( 6770232 ) on Saturday March 06, 2021 @08:08AM (#61129952)

    Coal is more expensive, more polluting, more dangerous, and generally dumber energy source than just about anything else.

    It's no surprise, financially or otherwise, that it's being quickly replaced.

  • "Main source of power" infers that it meets 50% or more of the power requirements. I think a more accurate verbiage is "Largest source of power".

    • It's definitely the *main* source of power as far as merit order in power grids is concerned -- *main* in the sense that you use it first whenever you can. Is that not an applicable definition of "main"?
      • For what it's worth I interpreted "main" as "over half". I actually thought "wow Germany is over half on wind power?!", until I read the summary.

        I think there's ambiguity in the word "main" that would be eliminated if they used "largest"

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        "main' is a bullshit term. Wind only exists on the grid because coal and gas and other sources can provide reliability. Wind provides zero reliability. WIth over 60GW of capacity, they still see total wind output drop below 2GW rather frequently, it even happened earlier this week.

        You can eliminate all of Germany's wind and they can still supply their needed electrical generation. They really can't shut any coal down without adding gas.
        • does that say there is not enough wind to generate the power or they have got a lot of power from some other source else so they had to shutdown the turbines (as it was easier) as they weren't needed.
          • Germany generally does not curtail wind. Wind has first dispatch priority. The low output is all that wind can produce at the time because of low wind conditions across the country including offshore.
        • Wind only exists on the grid because coal and gas and other sources can provide reliability

          "Mammoths were not the main source of food for mammoth hunters because *occasionally* they hunted deer." Do you see how ridiculous that claim sounds?

          • Wind only exists on the grid because coal and gas and other sources can provide reliability

            "Mammoths were not the main source of food for mammoth hunters because *occasionally* they hunted deer." Do you see how ridiculous that claim sounds?

            I see how you entirely miss the point of my statement.

            • That's an easy thing to do when the point is hard to find.
              • Its pretty simple. Wind power in Germany is not feasible on its own. It is not reliable, but a grid must be, therefore a grid with wind is only as reliable as the other sources.

                This is a simple concept.
                • Nobody disputes that, but that is in no way in contradiction with the statement that wind is the main source of power in Germany, or one of several main sources of power. Just like mammoths were the main source of food for mammoth hunters but that doesn't mean that mammoth hunters *only* and exclusively ate mammoths.
                  • "main" is a subjective term, and its not one anybody but some ignorant reporters would use. The 'main' source of reliable power is NOT wind. The 'main' sources that keep the grid stable are not wind.

                    There's nothing wrong with wind, people tend to get all worked up when we point out the facts that we need other sources in order to enable the use of wind to begin with.
        • with batteries? My understanding is those extreme drops are very temporary. Australia has had a lot of success with large scale batteries doing just that. There were stories about it here on /. .
  • Apologies if this is really dumb, but I don't really "get" the push for declaring wind as the end to fossil fuel power generation. Let me explain and perhaps someone can tell me why I'm wrong.

    So wind is unreliable, it blows sometimes, not others so you need a base load. AFAIK this is simple fact. Therefore the more wind generation you have either you need a base load that can turn on a dime or you need to have a grid that lets you import and export power rapidly to someone else that can take your peaks and

    • mrfaithful, I fear you are labouring under a misapprehension.

      The argument you have stumbled into is not to do with science, technology, or even public policy.

      It is essentially religious.

    • by ATPtechie ( 6601442 ) on Saturday March 06, 2021 @10:00AM (#61130184)
      The simple answer is BATTERIES. I live near a "battery" surrounded by wind farms in western Michigan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] . It is a 1.3 Square mile reservoir -- 110 feet (34 m) deep, 2.5 miles (4.0 km) long, and one mile (1.6 km) wide which holds 27 billion US gallons (100 Gl) or 82859 acre-feet of water. It is up-hill along the bluffs / bank of Lake Michigan. When the wind is blowing, water is pumped uphill, and when the grid needs energy, water flows downhill through reversible turbines producing over 2,000 Megawatts even if the wind is completely calm. Of course there are other kinds of batteries to buffer power demand, and wind isn't the only kind of power that needs buffering. This "battery" finished in 1973 to buffer nuclear power in the grid that includes Chicago.
    • by Rei ( 128717 )

      Discussed here [slashdot.org]. Also, the word you're looking for when you write "baseload that can turn on a dime" is "peaking" - although the cheaper wind, solar, and storage get, the less it's actually needed, and if current trends hold will be entirely unnecessary by the end of the decade.

    • by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

      "It blows sometimes"

      Small scale yes, large scale no.
      https://earth.nullschool.net/#... [nullschool.net]

      With a big enough grid there won't be much variation. But still other methods are needed such as having 100,000,000 electric cars in Europe that can charge up depending of current electricity price and sell some electricity back to the grid if the owner wants to allow that. Pumped hydro has a lot of potential, How much pumped hydro energy storage could we get if we went for a project as big as the channel tunnel?

      • How much pumped hydro energy storage could we get if we went for a project as big as the channel tunnel?

        I could get behind wind if the breathless stories of massive rollouts also included paragraphs saying "and it will be partnered with hydro/battery/etc. to store the excess which could provide N hours of full load in the worst case." Instead it's all about selling it on the grid. I'm probably just getting a false impression from the media. There's a strong probability that the people who know what they are doing have a sensible plan but the meat is being lost in the translation to political point scoring in

        • by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

          Renewables are the only form of energy that are long term sustainable, it makes the most sense to invest in that especially given how clean and cheap they are and costs are still dropping.

    • by ljw1004 ( 764174 )

      Therefore the more wind generation you have either you need a base load that can turn on a dime or you need to have a grid that lets you import and export power rapidly to someone else that can take your peaks and help you ride out your valleys. All good so far? My problem is that doesn't this imply that they are just exporting their problems with their wind farms? Germany has lots of green power but they do so at the expense of say, France, who are providing them nuclear when they need it and helping them consume wind power when they don't. And so in reality it's just a race to get the most "green" power you can and try not to be the bag holder for the bulk of the dirty base load generation that enables all these "green" nations.

      Nuclear power can't turn on and off on a dime. It has the slowest switching time of any of the fuel-consuming resources.

      Nuclear is basically green isn't it? i.e. hardly polluting. I thought the ideal was to have a combination of nuclear and renewable energy sources.

      Who cares if the wind is in the North of the country and nuclear is in the South? or if the wind is in the central part of Europe and the nuclear in the West? I don't understand why your analysis cares about Germany vs France.

      • I don't understand why your analysis cares about Germany vs France.

        Germany stopped nuclear for political reasons, my assumption is that someday France will want to do the same. That's it, that's the lynchpin of my argument. If that never happens then it's just down to economic factors about how much each nation charges the other for whatever power they need and making sure the generator of last resort doesn't abusively raise prices.

    • Worth a read if you are worried about the last century paradigm of "baseload"

      The baseload myth [reneweconomy.com.au]
    • by Halo1 ( 136547 )

      So wind is unreliable, it blows sometimes, not others so you need a base load.

      The larger the geographic surface area, the more constant the production becomes. Switching to a larger degree of renewable sources requires strong interconnections across the entire continent (and if possible even beyond, like Northern Africa; geopolitical issues come into play then though, although we've never been reluctant to buy their oil).

      In addition, you indeed need baseload and buffers. The VITO (Flemish Institute for Technical Innovation) made this excercice for Flanders in 2012, to transition to 1

    • by k2r ( 255754 )

      Overrated.

      > Germany has lots of green power but they do so at the expense of say, France, who are providing them nuclear when they need it

      Germany provides France with power when they have to shut down their nuclear power plants in summer, again, because the colling water is too hot. This happens frequently and it will happen more frequently because of climate change.
      We have an European grid to support each other.

  • I don't know how many of you are history buffs... but a couple times they went to war with the world. And it was actually close!
  • Wind Power (Score:2, Funny)

    by gosso920 ( 6330142 )
    "It's a trap!" - Texas
  • The weird thing about wind is, at least to my superficial knowledge, it doesn't seem to rely much on new technology. (Even the blades are fiberglass rather than carbon fiber still for the most part.) It seems like something we could have got to where we are 20 years earlier. True or false?
  • The key to minimizing your losses in the stock market is to diversify.

    One day, there will be no wind and no sun for a whole week, and no fission nor coal nor gas nor oil power. Germans can stay warm though on smugness.

  • by sxpert ( 139117 ) on Saturday March 06, 2021 @01:26PM (#61130848)

    is that they needed to add tons of methane peaker plants, which went from 20% to 29% according to https://www.cleanenergywire.or... [cleanenergywire.org]

  • by iamacat ( 583406 ) on Saturday March 06, 2021 @10:16PM (#61131908)

    Unless dangerous old design of course. Otherwise, we are already incurring significant harm from climate change and any unnecessary carbon emission will make it even worse. Just build whatever new carbon neutral capacity makes sense in your area - solar, wind, nuclear, hydro, biogas. Once again, pointless drama and political posturing gets in a way of solving serious problems.

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