Intel Talks With TSMC, Samsung To Outsource Some Chip Production (bloomberg.com) 28
Intel has talked with TSMC and Samsung about the Asian companies making some of its best chips, but the Silicon Valley pioneer is still holding out hope for last-minute improvements in its own production capabilities. Bloomberg reports: After successive delays in its chip fabrication processes, Santa Clara, California-based Intel has yet to make a final decision less than two weeks ahead of a scheduled announcement of its plans, according to people familiar with the deliberations. Any components that Intel might source from Taiwan wouldn't come to market until 2023 at the earliest and would be based on established manufacturing processes already in use by other TSMC customers, said the people, asking not to be identified because the plans are private.
Talks with Samsung, whose foundry capabilities trail TSMC's, are at a more preliminary stage, the people said. An Intel spokesperson referred to previous comments by Bob Swan, the company's chief executive officer. Swan has promised investors he'll set out his plans for outsourcing and get Intel's production technology back on track when the company reports earnings Jan. 21. [...] TSMC, the largest maker of semiconductors for other companies, is preparing to offer Intel chips manufactured using a 4-nanometer process, with initial testing using an older 5-nanometer process, according to the people. The company has said it will make test production of 4-nanometer chips available in the fourth quarter of 2021 and volume shipments the following year. The Taiwanese company expects to have a new facility in Baoshan operational by the end of this year, which can be converted to production for Intel if required, one of the people said. TSMC executives previously said the new Baoshan unit would house a research center with 8,000 engineers.
While Intel has outsourced production of lower-end chips before, it has kept the manufacturing of its best semiconductors in-house, considering it a competitive strength. Its engineers have historically tailored their designs to the company's manufacturing processes, making a shift to outsourcing of flagship products unthinkable in the past. As the provider of 80% of personal computer and server processors globally, Intel produces hundreds of millions of chips each year. That scale dictates that any potential supplier must create new capacity to accommodate Intel.
Talks with Samsung, whose foundry capabilities trail TSMC's, are at a more preliminary stage, the people said. An Intel spokesperson referred to previous comments by Bob Swan, the company's chief executive officer. Swan has promised investors he'll set out his plans for outsourcing and get Intel's production technology back on track when the company reports earnings Jan. 21. [...] TSMC, the largest maker of semiconductors for other companies, is preparing to offer Intel chips manufactured using a 4-nanometer process, with initial testing using an older 5-nanometer process, according to the people. The company has said it will make test production of 4-nanometer chips available in the fourth quarter of 2021 and volume shipments the following year. The Taiwanese company expects to have a new facility in Baoshan operational by the end of this year, which can be converted to production for Intel if required, one of the people said. TSMC executives previously said the new Baoshan unit would house a research center with 8,000 engineers.
While Intel has outsourced production of lower-end chips before, it has kept the manufacturing of its best semiconductors in-house, considering it a competitive strength. Its engineers have historically tailored their designs to the company's manufacturing processes, making a shift to outsourcing of flagship products unthinkable in the past. As the provider of 80% of personal computer and server processors globally, Intel produces hundreds of millions of chips each year. That scale dictates that any potential supplier must create new capacity to accommodate Intel.
Hell hath frozen over (Score:3)
The just ordered himself a space heater from Amazon.
WTF is wrong with Intel? (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe ARM and AMD stocks are worth even more than people thought...
Re: WTF is wrong with Intel? (Score:2)
Well, if somebody else was the decider... he'd be the CEO.
Clearly he's the only one they have. Or the rest is even worse.
In any case, that way they conveniently get to blame it on him when it fails. And since he won't work there anymore, nobody gets punished.
I wouldn't be surprised, if everyone's massively afraid there, of being the next one who ruined Intel even more.
In any case... looks like a downwards spiral that is about as likely to get turned around as corporate culture is. (Usually, outside of traum
What is right with TSMC? (Score:5, Interesting)
The CEO won't change the realities of current semiconductor manufacturing and they can't put off dealing with that.
Intel isn't much worse off than Samsung, but Intel didn't want to go down the road of disastrously low yields and swallowing the losses. They don't want to be dependent on TSMC so they are trying to see if Samsung will swallow the losses for them ... but I don't see it happening, if things don't change fast Samsung will be forced to throw in the towel as well.
TSMC basically has a two generation lead on the industry and Apple buys an entire generation of that almost exclusively, shit's all kinda fucked up in the semiconductor world. That's not on the CEO, if anything it's on ASML ... they are delivering machinery which doesn't just need a learning curve, it requires fundamental R&D to make it work. ASML are delivering half a machine and only TSMC has been able to develop the other half.
Intel needs better spies.
Re: (Score:2)
Is Intel still using hafnium-based high-k dielectrics?
Spying on TSMC won't help much if they are using a different process.
Re: What is right with TSMC? (Score:2)
Wat?
The whole point of why their 10nm failed was because of disastrous low yields. Which is precisely why AMD started using chiplets. And Intel stubbornly refused to do so. Giving them exactly the heap of shards they're now sitting in.
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Re: (Score:1)
The CEO won't change the realities of current semiconductor manufacturing and they can't put off dealing with that.
Your sentence is correct as written, but with a meaning different from intended. They can't put off dealing with having the wrong CEO. They are doing this in the wrong order. The board should get a new CEO first.
Re: (Score:2)
ded company
With TSMC already being short in capacity... (Score:1)
and Intel having been a dick to ALL the companies previously ... Good luck with that, Intel!
Althoug with both Intel and AMD using the exact same process node, we's see which design is actually better...
Provided Intel finally commits fully to chiplets.
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If Intel goes out of business, they will still have a patent portfolio that they can leach off of for a while. Cross-licensing agreements don't work when one party doesn't produce anything.
Did anyone else feel a tremor (Score:2)
Intel has slipped far behind (Score:3)
There must be enormous problems with Intel's development of 4 nm node process technology to consider this. Its probably so desperate that its setting aside its own prestige rather than lag so far behind the competition. Maybe it was losing Apple that was the last straw. 4 nm is probably extremely difficult but still its surprising how poorly prepared Intel is for it. Intel has dropped the ball again and again, it needed desperately to get into mobile but failed as well.
Re:Intel has slipped far behind (Score:4, Interesting)
I’ve never been a fan of Intel, but for the sake of the market I hope they get through it and continue to run their own fabs. More competition is always better.
Business Model (Score:2)
Intel needs to be less transparent. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Where did Intel go wrong? (Score:2)
Intel used to have best-in-the-world semiconductor manufacturing operations. But now they can't even get 10nm right while TSMC and Samsung are both working towards getting 3nm into mass production.
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Arrogance, greed and stupidity. And they messed it up before, several times and learned nothing.
Sort-of reminds me of Boeing.
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> And they messed it up before, several times and learned nothing.
The difference was during those times they had the muscle to stongarm their way out of these messes. None of their competition did.
In the 70s Intel was not the major player, the market was wide open and you had major sales from small vendors like Zilog and MOS. But then IBM chose Intel, and with that cash flowing in, Intel quickly ramped their production lines until no one could compete.
There were some really great CPU designs in the 80's
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Indeed. I do remember that well. Also disasters like the Pentium 4, for example. The good thing here is that this is now coming to an end. Interestingly, AMD can integrate ARM cores into their CPUs or make them all ARM, as desired. Not really surprising, except for the manufacturing process, AMD has been well ahead of Intel for a long time now and that manufacturing advantage seems to be history. But it is good to see the market being opened again. Except for gaming I have no workloads that are tied to the
Re: (Score:2)
In 2013, when it hired Brian Krzanich as CEO, who invested in almost anything but the core business. None of his investments paid off, so Intel basically lost 5 years of development and a lot of cash.
Will take a while to work (Score:2)
So Intel is essentially giving up on their own fabs. They will never manage to catch up with their own manufacturing if this do this. Does look like they have little choice though, especially as AMD made sure they cannot charge extortionist prices anymore for their CPUs.
But it will take a while to get this working and they will not get the same extremely optimized results they can get from their own manufacturing. Will be interesting to see whether their designs can match AMD at all when the manufacturing p
It ain't easy (Score:1)
Badmashi Status: All New Status (Score:1)
Would not be the first time Intel used TSMC (Score:2)
The cellular modems were fabbed with TSMC except for the last version, just before they sold the division to Apple. That division was purchased from Infineon who were already doing business with TSMC. It took Intel years to get the design working on an Intel process.
Those products also contained ARM cores until the last version.
A foot in the door move (Score:2)
Intel no doubt will burn a ton of cash booking the available fabrication capacity to screw AMD and probably ARM chip production.
That I am sure they think will buy them time to get their crap designs out the door, and to depress the sales of their competitors.