The Battle Over Chips is About to Get Uglier (yahoo.com) 74
"We're in a new world where governments are more concerned about the security of their digital infrastructure and the resiliency of their supply chains," Jimmy Goodrich, vice president of global policy with the Washington-based Semiconductor Industry Association, tells Bloomberg.
"The techno-nationalist trends gaining traction in multiple capitals around the world are a challenge to the semiconductor industry." At once highly globalized and yet concentrated in the hands of a few countries, the industry has choke points that the U.S. under the presidency of Donald Trump has sought to exploit in order to thwart China's plans to become a world leader in chip production. Washington says Beijing can only achieve that goal through state subvention [funding] at the expense of U.S. industry, while furthering Communist Party access to high-tech tools for surveillance and repression. China rejects the allegations, accusing the U.S. of hypocrisy and acting out of political motivation. For both sides, Taiwan, which is responsible for some 70% of chips manufactured to order, is the new front line...
Citing the need to promote "digital sovereignty," the European Commission is exploring a 30 billion-euro ($35 billion) drive to raise Europe's share of the world chip market to 20%, from less than 10% now. Japan is also looking to bolster its domestic capacity. At least one Japanese delegation traveled to Taiwan in May and June this year in the hope of convincing TSMC to invest in Japan, a person with knowledge of the visit said. But TSMC announced in May that it was building a $12 billion facility in Arizona, and the company declined to receive any foreign visitors seeking to woo it, said another person familiar with the company's thinking....
A focus of Beijing is to accelerate research into so-called third-generation semiconductors — circuits made of materials such as silicon carbide and gallium nitride, a fledgling technology where no country dominates. Yet without silicon capabilities it will be difficult for China to build a proper semiconductor industry, said a senior TSMC official. Another person from a company involved in third-generation chip production said designing them is an art, and even poaching a team of designers won't necessarily guarantee success. The consensus is it won't be easy for China to catch up, especially at the cutting-edge where TSMC and Samsung are producing chips whose circuits are measured in single-digit nanometers, or billionths of a meter. SMIC [a partially state-owned Chinese semiconductor foundry] would have to double annual research spending in the next two-to-three years just to prevent its technology gap with those companies widening, says Bloomberg Intelligence analyst Charles Shum.
The tussle raises the prospect of a broader decoupling of the global industry with two distinct supply chains.
"The techno-nationalist trends gaining traction in multiple capitals around the world are a challenge to the semiconductor industry." At once highly globalized and yet concentrated in the hands of a few countries, the industry has choke points that the U.S. under the presidency of Donald Trump has sought to exploit in order to thwart China's plans to become a world leader in chip production. Washington says Beijing can only achieve that goal through state subvention [funding] at the expense of U.S. industry, while furthering Communist Party access to high-tech tools for surveillance and repression. China rejects the allegations, accusing the U.S. of hypocrisy and acting out of political motivation. For both sides, Taiwan, which is responsible for some 70% of chips manufactured to order, is the new front line...
Citing the need to promote "digital sovereignty," the European Commission is exploring a 30 billion-euro ($35 billion) drive to raise Europe's share of the world chip market to 20%, from less than 10% now. Japan is also looking to bolster its domestic capacity. At least one Japanese delegation traveled to Taiwan in May and June this year in the hope of convincing TSMC to invest in Japan, a person with knowledge of the visit said. But TSMC announced in May that it was building a $12 billion facility in Arizona, and the company declined to receive any foreign visitors seeking to woo it, said another person familiar with the company's thinking....
A focus of Beijing is to accelerate research into so-called third-generation semiconductors — circuits made of materials such as silicon carbide and gallium nitride, a fledgling technology where no country dominates. Yet without silicon capabilities it will be difficult for China to build a proper semiconductor industry, said a senior TSMC official. Another person from a company involved in third-generation chip production said designing them is an art, and even poaching a team of designers won't necessarily guarantee success. The consensus is it won't be easy for China to catch up, especially at the cutting-edge where TSMC and Samsung are producing chips whose circuits are measured in single-digit nanometers, or billionths of a meter. SMIC [a partially state-owned Chinese semiconductor foundry] would have to double annual research spending in the next two-to-three years just to prevent its technology gap with those companies widening, says Bloomberg Intelligence analyst Charles Shum.
The tussle raises the prospect of a broader decoupling of the global industry with two distinct supply chains.
Catch me, I'm right behind you (Score:2, Troll)
Re:Catch me, I'm right behind you (Score:5, Insightful)
The US has a pretty good chance of plain catching Taiwan, instead of catching up. Taiwan can become a vassal of the US, or it can be slowly isolated by China until surrender is the only option. Given the Arizona plant, they seem to be leaning towards vassal of the US.
Of course China will threaten nukes if the US creates a formal defence pact with Taiwan, but TSMC might be important enough to risk it ... the US should have never let the situation fester this long. Nixon and Kissinger fucked up royally.
Re:Catch me, I'm right behind you (Score:4, Informative)
China has been recruiting TSMC talent lately. Very attractive packages to come and help them develop their domestic fabs.
Re: Catch me, I'm right behind you (Score:5, Insightful)
Very attractive until you want to take your holiday to see family in Taiwan and China gets paranoid about you never returning ...
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Oh they want you to bring your family too, pay for the whole thing.
Re: Catch me, I'm right behind you (Score:3)
Hostages.
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Seems unlikely. Word would get around pretty fast and they need lots of engineers.
Re: Catch me, I'm right behind you (Score:3)
If an iron curtain comes down in a new cold war all bets are off. You don't want to be in China if it happens.
Paranoid you say? I bet the ABC reporters who's 14 year old was threatened with arrest and had to seek refuge in an embassy thought the same.
China is fast getting NK tier of danger to visit IMO. Given how often I have insulted Pooh I'd never go there at the moment. I'd much sooner visit Russia, even thought Putler sends out assassins like it's going out of fashion.
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Have you ever been to China? I have.
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I doubt it confers immunity to normalcy bias.
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Another person from a company involved in third-generation chip production said designing them is an art, and even poaching a team of designers won't necessarily guarantee success.
I know you won't read the article but could you at least RTFS(ummary)?
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... the US should have never let the situation fester this long. Nixon and Kissinger fucked up royally.
With that logic it was Truman who fucked up by pulling the reins in on MacArther. What are you, fourteen? How about all the Presidents (you know, the one's who aren't Donald Trump) fucking up royally by selling out the chip industry (one of many) in this country and sending it overseas? But hell, you can save a sawbuck on your American iPhone, so, that's cool.
Why are you an AC? Get a userid. You have a head on your shoulders. You're right, Truman fucked that up good. He was a very hard worker, and also an idiot. A failed haberdasher. It's great that he had great help. Bad that he didn't listen, which earned him a lot of criticism at the time.
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China is neighther a republic nor a people's republic. It is a violent, murderous, genocidal totalitarian regime.
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China is neighther a republic nor a people's republic. It is a violent, murderous, genocidal totalitarian regime.
The Republic of China is the official name of the country that we are normally told is called "Taiwan".
Guess who insists that we call it "Taiwan"?
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China is neighther a republic nor a people's republic. It is a violent, murderous, genocidal totalitarian regime.
The Republic of China is the official name of the country that we are normally told is called "Taiwan".
Guess who insists that we call it "Taiwan"?
The USA, to make the distinction that it is independent from China?
China applies political pressure to call the country "Chinese Taipei" in many international forums. I imagine that is what they prefer.
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You are misunderstanding the question, RoC and PRC are two different countries.
Maybe you know something I don't? I thought the RoC ceased to exist in 1949. Any reference to RoC would refer to what most people consider China.
BTW, I'm surprised they didn't simply ask BHO for Taiwan when he was over there. I'm sure he would have said - go ahead and take it. He pulled back every carrier we had prior to his leaving office. December and even January was a prime time for them to simply say - It's ours. I knew someone at the time that was born in Taiwan. Her family was very concerned it would
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No RoC did not cease to exist.
Re: Catch me, I'm right behind you (Score:2)
Distort investment decisions (Score:2)
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Wrong perspective. The US doesn't need to catch up to the RoC, when the US can do something better: protect it.
TSMC can also open fabs in the US (or buy some from Intel once their foundry business becomes moribund) for geopolitical diversification.
Disappointing news (Score:2, Insightful)
I came here to read about fried potatoes and instead do I get to read about Trump again. Out of curiosity do I need to ask, what did Mr. Trump ever do that didn't turn ugly at some point? About anything the man has touched turned ugly, didn't it?
vote early and vote often (Score:1)
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I came here to see the Sinophobes take their token pot shots. But you're right, Trump is cancer on aids. Election Day will drag on for months in the courts, the stocks will enter a slow burn due to the uncertainty and his RWNJs will run rampant online and IRL. The only thing that can save America is a turn-out above 65% and that hasn't happened in decades. It will come down to the number of voters deleted from the rolls, the number of postal votes that don't get opened and the number that stay in their queue on the day.
No, it will come down to the moronic Electoral College system which routinely throws millions of votes in the bin because the states don't represent the way their voters voted.
Hanging chads, a few hundred denied from the rolls, some postal fraud. None of that - ALL of that added up - doesn't come close to distorting the result the way the college system does. That other stuff is a distraction from reforming one of the fundamental problems with the US voting process.
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And yet you fuckers never complained about it when the Democrats got elected.
There is no reason to complain when the electoral college vote is the same as the popular vote. It has only failed to do so five times in history. One of those times was a Bush presidency. Another time was Trump. It's called perspective, and you lack it, lackey.
The Electoral College was put in place a long time ago by people much smarter than you, so show some respect.
Intelligence by itself is barely worthy of respect. It has to be tempered with wisdom, or it only enables people to do shittier things faster and easier. The Electoral College was designed to preserve power for the older, smaller states. Then they to
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And when things didn't turn out as you wished - we got mobs, violent destructive mobs. Yours.
That narrative has been repeatedly debunked. You've got right-wing troublemakers showing up to peaceful protests specifically to cause problems under cover of protest, and cops supporting them and even egging them on. Even Trump's uninsignia'd bully boys didn't charge anyone. They just harassed protesters by rounding them up, then letting them go hours later.
The violent and destructive types are yours, not ours.
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And when things didn't turn out as you wished - we got mobs, violent destructive mobs. Yours.
So, basically, what you mean is that when the people are not represented properly they should shut up and take it rather than take up arms?
I'll let King George III know about your undying support in the colonies. He'll be pleased, I'm sure.
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And yet you fuckers never complained about it when the Democrats got elected. Then Clinton II lost and you guys proved that you will destroy the country to get political power back. The Electoral College was put in place a long time ago by people much smarter than you, so show some respect.
They got it wrong.
You're voting for a single seat. There is zero logic to the electoral college system and it sometimes gives the wrong answer. There's absolutely no argument you can give which says that having a vote and then giving the position to the loser makes sense.
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The Electoral College exists to stop people like you.
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The Electoral College exists to stop people like you.
People who get more votes than their opponent?
WRONG (Score:2)
The EC system exists for SLAVE holders. duh!
It all came down to compromises to get states to join up at the time.
Until 1 person = 1 vote you don't have equality. 90% were rural back then and now 90% are concentrated in cities and that trend continues.
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What is a poorly thought out political fad, if it's not Donald Trump?
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My name is Joe and I've created the Slashdot account in 2020 (at the start of COVID19 during lockdown). That's why I choose the nickname. I'm British and I don't live in the USA nor am I allowed to vote there. I don't get your comment apart from that you believe I was a Joe Biden supporter.
Re: Disappointing news (Score:2)
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Kettle brand is good. I find they have the best salt & vinegar, and it's surprisingly low in sodium, especially considering they have the salty taste plants crave. Only 6% DV sodium per ounce, and 6% DV potassium. Likely it's due to using good sea salt. (Not all sea salt is created equal).
If S&V isn't your thing, pretty much every flavor they have is good. Personal favorites for me include the dill and jalapeno. I don't know what the hell they do to those potatoes, but it's perfect. Lay's brought ou
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Well, thank you kindly!
Next time (Score:4, Informative)
Next time, don't put your country's entire manufacturing buziness into to hands of a cruel, murderous dictatorship.
Re: Next time (Score:3)
I've lived in both places, and I don't know either, but there's more evidence for the USA, imo.
Didn't someone famous once say that when you look out the window you tend to see yourself? I probably got that completely wrong.
Isn't it possible that both are correct? (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, Trump is a moron. And yes, PRC is a murderous regime that uses its mercantilist trade policy and slave labor to exert influence all over the globe. It's not sinophobia to want to insulate ourselves from this. The more products we're dependent on China for, the worse off we'll be. Didn't we learn anything from the PPE and pharmaceutical shortage? That's only the tip of the iceberg.
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Yes, Trump is a moron. And yes, PRC is a murderous regime that uses its mercantilist trade policy and slave labor to exert influence all over the globe. It's not sinophobia to want to insulate ourselves from this. The more products we're dependent on China for, the worse off we'll be. Didn't we learn anything from the PPE and pharmaceutical shortage? That's only the tip of the iceberg.
You should recognize that Trump isn't a moron and he has helped make America great again. He's brought back a lot of jobs and I've seen it. It's incredible. There is a moron running for President, his name is Joe Biden. I remember before Obama he used to be knocked out of the primaries in the first round, because he IS a moron. Besides, he's a stand in for Harris. I think we all know that. Probably from day one.
Two is a start. (Score:2)
Re: Two is a start. (Score:3)
Well, now it is more about entities in the chain from being under the control of the same government. Not sure I put that quite correctly but you get the point, I hope.
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Fabless Outfits (Score:1)
For both sides, Taiwan, which is responsible for some 70% of chips manufactured to order, is the new front line...
The fabless might be about to get fucked. Design operations that can't actually produce silicon might be in trouble.
Re: Fabless Outfits (Score:2)
it's not just about the chips... (Score:1)
It's about area control.
After US $ tanks (soon), they'll need to run the whole area Israel style - as an open prison.
EU has been methodically prepared to serve as Agenda's new "home".
It has been carpet bombed with state of the art surveillance that make Elon's Neuralink look like a toy:
https://www.reddit.com/r/consp... [reddit.com]
https://www.reddit.com/r/consp... [reddit.com]
Starlink and 5G are coming in soon:
https://www.reddit.com/r/consp... [reddit.com]
Digital currency is coming... (Score:2)
Real soon, after USD hits the ground, new digital bullshit currency is to be announced.
But in order to keep people from using their own choice, they need to control the equipment, so that their Crypto Shekel has no competition:
https://www.reddit.com/r/consp... [reddit.com]
This is all part of The Great Reset they keep talking about:
https://www.reddit.com/r/consp... [reddit.com]
What battle? (Score:2)
I thought the smooth vs ruffled battle ended long ago. There are only two, maybe three, companies which make ruffled chips any more.
People have made their choice. They want smooth chips.
*whisper* *whisper* *whisper*
Oh. Those chips. Never mind.
Arizona for a chip fab (Score:2)
Great place to set up a chip fab, if you never, ever want to run out of silicon to refine. Of course the shortage of fresh water might become an issue as the fights over the water rights of the Colorado river become more intense.
Re: Arizona for a chip fab (Score:2)
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Believe me, Intel is paying attention to the water rights fights, and putting in their two cents worth when they can. Desalination will solve the problem -- whenever there is the surplus power to run it, which probably means fusion. The trick is to not get caught in a bind between now and that eventual future.
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China already has water problems - demand is outstripping their resources.
What's old is new (Score:1)
China taking over high tech (Score:2)
I think it quite possible that Chinese industries could become significant or even dominant in semiconductor manufacture. The pattern for many years is for China to aggressively fund industries to support its economy, and this is steadily encroaching on areas such as design and development.
One example of this, that I have been observing for some time, is the plastic molding business. At one time, mold tools were designed and made in the UK, and shipped to China, to take advantage of cheap labour there for m
Forget about the Chips (Score:1)