Follow Slashdot blog updates by subscribing to our blog RSS feed

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Open Source Printer Apple

Has Apple Abandoned CUPS, Linux's Widely Used Open-Source Printing System? Seems So (theregister.com) 120

The official public repository for CUPS, an Apple open-source project widely used for printing on Linux, is all-but dormant since the lead developer left Apple at the end of 2019. From a report: Apple adopted CUPS for Mac OS X in 2002, and hired its author Michael Sweet in 2007, with Cupertino also acquiring the CUPS source code. Sweet continued to work on printing technology at Apple, including CUPS, until December 2019 when he left to start a new company. Asked at the time about the future of CUPS, he said: "CUPS is still owned and maintained by Apple. There are two other engineers still in the printing team that are responsible for CUPS development, and it will continue to have new bug fix releases (at least) for the foreseeable future." Despite this statement, Linux watcher Michael Larabel noted earlier this week that "the open-source CUPS code-base is now at a stand-still. There was just one commit to the CUPS Git repository for all of 2020." This contrasts with 355 commits in 2019, when Sweet still worked at Apple, and 348 the previous year. We asked Apple about its plans for CUPS and have yet to hear back.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Has Apple Abandoned CUPS, Linux's Widely Used Open-Source Printing System? Seems So

Comments Filter:
  • by FudRucker ( 866063 ) on Friday October 16, 2020 @11:03AM (#60614758)
    fork it and put it on gitlab or github, build a circle of good and well known & trusted developers and the problem is largely solved, printing has not changed that much, just keep it maintained, patched and drivers updated for new printer models
    • Why fork it? Submit changes to Apple's open source repository.
      • if apple abandoned CUPS then fork it so it wont be under apple's roof, that way if apple decides to delete their CUPS repository nothing will be lost, if not fork it then mirror it to somewhere apple has no control like gitlab or github, i am sure if some developers decided to keep CUPS going they would be sorely disappointed if one day they find all the work gone because apple moved it or deleted it
        • by drnb ( 2434720 ) on Friday October 16, 2020 @11:40AM (#60614944)
          It doesn't sound abandoned. "There are two other engineers still in the printing team that are responsible for CUPS development, and it will continue to have new bug fix releases (at least) for the foreseeable future."

          Apple just deleting their repository? Oh come on man.

          Forking sounds a bit premature and counter productive. Just submit to Apple for now. **IFF** they act unreasonably then consider forking.
        • Also Apple didn't abandon it, the sole guy who seemed to be actually working on it, who happened to work for Apple, moved on. So a better article would have had a reference to that open-source sustainability metric whose acronym I can't remember. In particular CUPS seems to have had a bus factor of one.
      • Why fork it? Submit changes to Apple's open source repository.

        Why the hell do you want to make changes? Maybe after ~20 years this simple, basic tool is finally finished. Maybe thrashing the code on the clock was more about that clock than the code?

        • CUPS is a simple, basic tool? It is apparent that you do not have the slightest clue about anything to do with printers or printing.

          • Some of the firmware I write... talks to POS printers in restaurants.

            You're right though, I don't have the slightest clue about printers. I only know what the software does, the printer itself is a black box to me.

    • Apple is deprecating support for print drivers in macOS, pushing the AirPrint and IPP Everywhere protocols. There's a new Printer Working Group.

      https://www.pwg.org/ [pwg.org]

      Older and specialty printers will be a problem for some time, I'm sure.

      • Going with AirPrint and dropping print drivers is a very Apple-like decision. It should "just work", after all.

        Are specialty printers even able to connect to Macs? And are the majority of those specialty printers owners using them with Macs?

      • by printman ( 54032 )

        Um, the Printer Working Group has been around since 1991, and was the organization behind the creation of the Internet Printing Protocol workgroup in the IETF.

    • by Curupira ( 1899458 ) on Friday October 16, 2020 @12:02PM (#60615114)

      Already done [github.com], and Michael Sweet is very active [github.com] in this fork.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Aighearach ( 97333 )

        And unlike Apple's, it has open tickets they haven't got to yet, and they're actively thrashing the code with commits like "Cleanup comments/coding style to match contribution guide" which is work that should have happened, and then been closed (following the open/closed principle as this is systems code not a game) over a decade ago.

        • by amorsen ( 7485 )

          which is work that should have happened, and then been closed [..] over a decade ago.

          So you are complaining that the new maintainers did not travel back in time and fix things 10 years ago?

          • by segin ( 883667 )
            No, they're complaining that the old maintainers should have done this 10 years ago to begin with.
    • by mpol ( 719243 )

      It is already forked by the main author, Michael Sweet:
      XCS [github.com]
      It is labeled as an experimental fork of Cups.

      It still unclear what will happen in the future. Will Apple pick up Cups development again, or do they leave it as it is? Will Michael Sweet keep on with this effort and will all Free Software projects have to switch from Cups to Xcs?
      There is no rush for decisions, the current situation is fine, but in some years time something will have to happen.

    • fork it and put it on gitlab or github, build a circle of good and well known & trusted developers and the problem is largely solved, printing has not changed that much, just keep it maintained, patched and drivers updated for new printer models

      Let me explain: Many years ago, Apple hired the main developer of cups, presumably for a good salary, acquired the copyright (it's still GPL licensed, but I think Apple has the copyright), and paid the main developer to continue developing cups which he did very well.

      Some time in 2019, he left Apple, did no more submits, and is quite willing and capable of building a circle of ONE good and well known and trusted developer.

  • the last few years i've used airprint laser printers and my apple stuff just prints to them with no set up or whatever

    • by _xeno_ ( 155264 )

      AirPrint is a set of proprietary Apple extensions over IPP [wikipedia.org]. (Essentially it adds discovery of available IPP servers using Apple's proprietary discovery protocol, but there are a bunch of AirPrint extensions to the IPP part as well.) So, yeah, CUPS is probably dead, because the New Hotness (as far as Apple cares) are printers that support AirPrint, which isn't open source and as far as I can tell isn't an open spec either.

      It's also very common for Apple to just kind of quietly stop supporting things without

      • by MikeDataLink ( 536925 ) on Friday October 16, 2020 @11:28AM (#60614874) Homepage Journal

        For example, "Time Machine," their backup solution, still exists, but they no longer sell the "Time Capsule" - basically a special Apple home NAS device - required to actually use it. And it also doesn't work on APFS devices, since it requires their old HFS+ file system to work, and all current Macs use APFS. Which means that it's not technically dead, but it may as well be.

        Not exactly. When Apple disco'd Time Capsule they allowed any vendor to offer it. So all you need is a Synology or QNAP for example and you're good to go.

        https://www.synology.com/en-us... [synology.com]

        • Or, with this being Slashdot after all, you can simply host your own time capsule server via SAMBA, granted with some non-default extensions compiled in.
        • Time Machine backs up to any external disk. Time Capsule was just Apple's own version of a backup disk integrated with a router. The hardware project was abandoned because so many competing routers and backup disks existed, and there was no special advantage to combining the two.

      • by borad ( 458090 ) on Friday October 16, 2020 @11:33AM (#60614908)

        I must live in bizarro world, then. Time Machine still works perfectly well on a current system paired with a plain old hard drive set to HFS+

        • I must live in bizarro world, then. Time Machine still works perfectly well on a current system paired with a plain old hard drive set to HFS+

          I use a combination of one SD card + one hard drive to have two backups of important but small computers. And I wish Sandisk would create some SD card that you can insert into a MacBook without sticking out.

      • basically a special Apple home NAS device - required to actually use it.

        The Time Capsule was nice because it was a WiFi hub and Time Machine backup disc.

        But Time Machine still works great today - either by connecting any local external hard discs and opting to use it for Time Machine, or you can also set up Time Machine over a network shared drive. I do both at my house and have not had any issues.

        The same thing likely applies to CUPS: it's not officially dead, but it's not going to see any more updates fr

        • by dfghjk ( 711126 )

          Time Machine never worked great. The best thing you can do for a Mac is leave that garbage disabled.

          • Time Machine never worked great. The best thing you can do for a Mac is leave that garbage disabled.

            Now that is stupid. I have seen NAS drives where it didn't work well, but whatever we have at work works perfectly fine, and at my home it works perfectly fine for me.

      • by gtall ( 79522 ) on Friday October 16, 2020 @12:17PM (#60615202)

        You cannot Time Machine back up to an APFS disk from Catalina or before. You can with Big Sur.

      • by bjb ( 3050 ) on Friday October 16, 2020 @12:20PM (#60615216) Homepage Journal

        ...it requires their old HFS+ file system to work, and all current Macs use APFS.

        Yes, it does still require HFS+ for the Time Machine storage volume, but lets not create confusion here. First, the service doesn't care that you're backing up an APFS or HFS+ volume. Second, when Time Machine creates a backup repository on your backup drive, it creates an HFS+ Sparse Bundle. That could live on an APFS volume happy as a clam. So in other words, Time Machine does use HFS+, but does not care what filesystem you have as long as it can create the sparse bundle on it.

        (FWIW, I have Time Machine running on an APFS system and the backup is on an APFS disk as well, so I know this works!)

        • (FWIW, I have Time Machine running on an APFS system and the backup is on an APFS disk as well, so I know this works!)

          Off topic and out of curiosity, is the APFS a Hard Disk or an SDD? I'm just curious because it's sort of my understanding that APFS isn't so great for spinning media...

          • Off topic and out of curiosity, is the APFS a Hard Disk or an SDD? I'm just curious because it's sort of my understanding that APFS isn't so great for spinning media...

            The other way round. HFS+ was created long time before SSD, so some assumptions about speed are wrong, and AFPS fixes that so it gets a speed up on SSD drives compared to HFS+. On spinning drives, that speed up is not there because HFS+ always knew how to run fast on spinning drives.

      • by printman ( 54032 ) on Friday October 16, 2020 @06:23PM (#60616646) Homepage

        > Essentially it adds discovery of available IPP servers using Apple's proprietary discovery protocol, but there are a bunch of AirPrint extensions to the IPP part as well.

        Um, DNS-SD and mDNS and ZeroConf (Apple marketing name Bonjour) are IETF standards - nothing proprietary there. IPP Everywhere uses the same protocol. Similarly, none of the IPP stuff is proprietary (I know, I wrote the PWG specs...) Just the marketing is proprietary... :/

  • I find I save considerable memory and cpu by disabling cups and cups-browsed on my underpowered 10 year old laptop.

    • *@*-samtop:~$ ps aux | grep cups; uptime
      root 1290 0.0 0.0 105660 13228 ? Ss 12:11 0:00 /usr/sbin/cupsd -l
      root 1351 0.0 0.0 303676 10736 ? Ssl 12:11 0:00 /usr/sbin/cups-browsed
      lp 1395 0.0 0.0 86420 5792 ? S 12:11 0:00 /usr/lib/cups/notifier/dbus dbus://
      lp 1396 0.0 0.0 86420 5920 ? S 12:11 0:00 /usr/lib/cups/notifier/dbus dbus://
      * 10147 0.0 0.0 14428 1048 pts/1 S+ 14:10 0:00 grep --color=auto cups
      14:10:54 up 2:00, 1 user, load average: 1.00, 1.25, 1.12

      Odd, I'm not seeing that at all on my 7 year old laptop.
      It is however running a modern OS.

  • That's the problem with Apple. If they support standard protocols, they do a terrible job of it. Windows file sharing is pretty much standard but brutally supported in OSX. You have to use the top menu Go->Connect to server, you can't just enter the path in Finder like with all the other OSes; at least I don't see a way.
    • Theres a number of ways of integrating into AD networks with OSX, including automounting of shares etc. Its just not obvious as its sysadmin kinda stufff. The problem is a lot of companies have sysadmins that wouldnt know which ways up on a mac (hint: go to the spotlight, search for 'directory utility' and then do the same search on google)

      • Or, since it is (supposed to be) unix, I guess it would be smb://1.1.1.1/shared_folder.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • How do you enter smb:// in Finder? And yes, in windows you can enter \\1.1.1.1\shared_folder in both the start menu and explorer. You're right about Windows not supporting SSH but at least they support something. I have searched for a field in finder to enter a path.... even a local path would be nice rather than clicking through directories.. so if macos has that please let me know.
        • by pnutjam ( 523990 )
          windows 10 also supports ssh from the console, try it.
        • Command-K to connect an smb share by its path. Command-Shift-G to go to a path.
        • by Malc ( 1751 )

          How do you enter the user name in that Microsoft proprietary UNC path?

          On the Mac:
          smb://domain;user@1.1.1.1/share

          On Windows you have to go to a command prompt:
          net use z: \\1.1.1.1\share /user:domain\user
          (or authenticate with the IPC$ share then go back to Explorer)

          Always use the command line on Windows because itâ(TM)s way faster than Explorer and allows you to change the authentication user

      • by pnutjam ( 523990 )
        Windows 10 supports sftp at the windows console.
        You can just click > type "cmd" > then run "sftp user@hostname"
    • I just save an alias folder to my server and macOS automatically connects when I click on it.

      • Which is awkward because then if the folder is on the desktop you have to expose your desktop or go to it in the finder before you can go to it. Also there are around 20 different folders that I want to do to.
    • Using Samba between Linux and Linux is perverted and lacks many native things. Or converts back and forth each time.
      And NFS, while seeming to be standard, apparently can't and shouldn't be used over a non-always-online connection, plus some other quirks.
      sshfs, while being nice, also feels very non-native. I mean, FTP behind the scenes? That's a paddling!

      None of those seem viable for /home/$user/. Especially if it should also be mountable on Android and be compatible with some offline-caching.

      • I use a file manager to mount samba on android all the time. For multi-purpose file sharing on all OSes Samba is definitely the way to go unless you need strict permission management. I just wish it was better integrated in macos that's all.
      • by Bert64 ( 520050 ) <bert AT slashdot DOT firenzee DOT com> on Friday October 16, 2020 @01:14PM (#60615512) Homepage

        NFS is designed to be reliable, in its default state if your connection to the server dies it will wait for the connection to come back... Any reads or writes that were in progress will wait until the server returns.
        Samba is not, if the server dies then reads/writes will fail.

        NFS can be configured - see the hard, soft and intr mount options.

        A few years ago i was playing music (from an nfs share) on my laptop, i took my laptop away for the weekend and obviously the music stopped... When i brought it back and reconnected it to the original network, the music resumed from exactly where it had stopped.

  • by drnb ( 2434720 ) on Friday October 16, 2020 @11:29AM (#60614882)
    Maybe its a solved problem and the project has moved from development mode to maintenance mode. The standard mature and fully implemented. That happens with standards and libraries sometimes.

    Also an original developer leaving when the project goes from development to maintenance mode is a thing that happens as well. Its a good time to handoff something. Move from the old familiar to the new shiny thing.
    • maintenance mode.

      Then maybe they should maintain it because there's been a steady string of pull requests and bug reports come through for a long time. They only stopped responding to them in 2019.

      • drnb is shill level +9000.
        He will pathologically defend any decision or criticism of Apple to the digital death. Don't bother.
        • by drnb ( 2434720 )

          drnb is shill level +9000. He will pathologically defend any decision or criticism of Apple to the digital death. Don't bother.

          LOL -- silly little troll. I am actually platform agnostic. Windows, Linux, macOS, Android, iOS ... don't care. I have no reluctance to criticize Apple when they actually do something wrong. Here its just premature.

          • LOL -- silly little troll. I am actually platform agnostic. Windows, Linux, macOS, Android, iOS ... don't care. I have no reluctance to criticize Apple when they actually do something wrong. Here its just premature.

            You're a liar too. Funny.

  • by Glasswire ( 302197 ) on Friday October 16, 2020 @11:46AM (#60614990) Homepage

    Apple which has never been comfortable being compatible for things they don't have to, will likely keep moving away from standard *NIX system environment. Standby for the 'enhanced' Apple command shell....

  • Why the obsession with an always changing code base?

    If your code does not approach a perfect state, with fewer and fewer changes, until it's not worth more effort anymore, I'm sorry, but you're doing something wrong.

    Something like moving goalposts instead of doing that in a fork or rewrite.

  • Read TFA and comment #7:

    https://www.phoronix.com/forum... [phoronix.com]

    "Michael Sweet has been developing PAPPL [*1], probably as a replacement for CUPS."

    *1) https://www.msweet.org/pappl/ [msweet.org]

  • I can install CUPS from the usual package managers of software brought over from Linux, do I need Apple's CUPS for anything?

  • Unplug that fax machine too. Just stop it.

"Experience has proved that some people indeed know everything." -- Russell Baker

Working...