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Power Businesses Technology

IKEA Is Saying Goodbye To Non-Rechargeable Batteries (cnet.com) 106

Ikea will remove all non-rechargeable alkaline batteries from its global home furnishings by October 2021, according to statement from the company emailed Wednesday. CNET reports: Aiming to reduce energy consumption and environmental waste with the move, the home furnishing giant cited the results of recent life-cycle assessment studies showing the environmental impact of alkaline batteries is higher compared with rechargeable nickel metal hydride batteries, when used in common household devices. The Swedish company, based in the Netherlands, said between September 2018 and August 2019 it sold about 300 million alkaline batteries globally. Ikea calculates that if all of its customers switched from alkaline to rechargeable batteries and recharged them just 50 times, global waste could be reduced by as much as 5,000 tons on an annual basis. Ikea added, however, that where required for an individual product to function, some lithium ion button cell batteries will be kept in the product range. "We are on a journey to inspire and enable people to live healthier and more sustainable lives within the boundaries of the planet," said Ikea Sustainability Development Manager Caroline Reid. "By phasing out alkaline batteries and focusing on our range of rechargeable batteries, we are taking one step on that journey, offering customers an affordable and convenient solution to prolong the life of products and materials and reduce waste."
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IKEA Is Saying Goodbye To Non-Rechargeable Batteries

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  • I don't know how common this is but in my community we can no longer bring disposable alkaline batteries anywhere for recycling; they all have to go in the trash*. I know I for one am not crazy about that as we use a fair number of them in my household. I just haven't been able to pick a rechargeable system yet that I like; clearly the time to do so has come.

    *In my community it was officially blamed on the e-cigarette (or whatever trendy name you want to use for it). Apparently too many people were putting the batteries from those into the battery recycling containers and that was causing all kinds of mayhem and safety concerns.
    • Years ago I too wanted to recycle them, although I'm astonished at the idea of e-cigarettes using alkalines. E-cigarettes took off long after 18650 and similar battery cells were easy to get, so it's a strange thing to hear. Anyway, I too was quite taken aback to learn that the garbage can is the only real place to put used alkalines. Now days I see that it fits in well with the theory that most forms of recycling are scams.

      Eneloop is a fairly reputable brand. I've heard that Amazon Basic rechargable batter

      • by robbak ( 775424 ) on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @09:57PM (#60559306) Homepage

        E-cigs don't use alkaline cells. Alkaline cells of the size they need don't contain enough energy. Instead, even the disposable ones use reasonable quality rechargeable Lion cells, which have the required shelf life and energy density, and are cheaper than the lithium primary cells which would be the alternative.

        • What about the one time use disposable vape pens?

          • by robbak ( 775424 )

            That's what I am saying - disposable vapes are fitted with good quality Lithium ion cells, because they are cheap, have enough capacity, and a long shelf life when fully charged. They could use smaller cells if they used non-rechargable lithium cells, but they would have to be custom made and therefore are more expensive.

            The reason they use good quality ones is that poor quality ones have lower capacity and tend to self-discharge, which would lead to them not lasting through a full use and going flat before

      • When buying Eneloops, only buy from Panasonic (yes, they sell through Amazon). Real Eneloops [eneloop101.com] are made in Japan even though their chargers are made in China.

        • You can also buy them from... IKEA. They have their LADDA line which is actually the same bettery as the Eneloop Pro: https://www.slrlounge.com/pana... [slrlounge.com]

          I bought a set for my VR or wireless Xbox 360 controllers, external flash, etc., and they work great.

          That said completely getting rid of alkaline batteries doesn't make sense. The batteries in your TV/AV remote controllers can easily last 5 or more years, as can quartz clocks and so on. I don't think it makese any sense to replace those with NiMh cells at all

          • The batteries in your TV/AV remote controllers can easily last 5 or more years, as can quartz clocks and so on. I don't think it makese any sense to replace those with NiMh cells at all.

            ULSD NiMH doesn't last QUITE as long, but they do last a long time. They can also last for years in those contexts, though perhaps not as many. If you accidentally put something heavy on top of your remote, and it lands on a repeating key, your alkalines won't last very long at all. On the other hand, I've had problems with NiMH batteries being too low-voltage to charge. I have only one charger that brings those back, my other two just refuse to charge them (including the eneloop charger, even the second ge

            • by heypete ( 60671 )

              On the other hand, I've had problems with NiMH batteries being too low-voltage to charge. I have only one charger that brings those back, my other two just refuse to charge them (including the eneloop charger, even the second gen one that charges cells individually.)

              I have a LaCrosse BC-700 that normally does really well with the eneloops. It also has issues charging batteries that have a voltage below a certain limit.

              I've gotten around this by charging both a low-but-not-critically-low battery and the one that's below the cutoff limit at the same time. I use a paperclip to connect the positive terminals of both batteries in the charger for a second or two. That's enough for the charger to detect the below-cutoff battery exists and it starts to charge it normally. I'd

          • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            In fact there is only one supplier for NiMH batteries in Japan now: Panasonic. So if a NiMH battery is made in Japan then it's an Eneloop.

            Might be normal or might be Pro, the normal ones have a bit lower capacity but more charge cycles.

      • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

        Eneloops are significantly more expensive than alkaline batteries, and can't hold charge for anywhere near as long. Also, pretty much all current "Ni-MH sold pre-charged" batteries are first gen Eneloop tech batteries. In my experience with them, it's generally worth getting third or fourth gen, because they'll last a lot longer (as in cycles).

        There's also a problem with size. You have to keep in mind that typical Ni-MH batteries (not low discharge) have a significantly higher capacity than low self-dischar

    • Mercury (Score:5, Informative)

      by JBMcB ( 73720 ) on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @10:10PM (#60559328)

      The only reason they collected alkaline batteries separately from trash was that they had a small amount of mercury in them, and they didn't want them ending up in an incinerator. Once they figured out how to make them without the mercury, it was safe to just throw them out. I know there are companies that recycle alkaline batteries, but from what I've read it doesn't make sense from an energy-use standpoint. That is, it costs more in energy to recycle them (you have to separate out the metals, which is energy-intensive) than it does to just refine ore.

    • I have done some research on recycling alkaline batteries, because we use tons of them at work in our products. As far as I can tell, the only part worth recycling is the steel casing. For some reason, the active ingredients are too mixed up to make recycling them practical. The article was quite old. Maybe we can do better now. We send boxes of spent alkaline batteries for recycling, but I would guess they are just disposed of safely, in such a way as to avoid fire and contamination.

  • by Rick Schumann ( 4662797 ) on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @09:18PM (#60559238) Journal
    Primary cells of the AAA, AA, C and D cylindrical types have a nominal terminal voltage of 1.5V.
    Similarly sized NiMH cells have a nominal terminal voltage of 1.2V.
    Many devices designed for 1.5V cells either won't function, will function poorly, or may stop functioning sooner due to this.
    Furthermore, NiMH rechargeable cells functionally don't come in sizes larger than AA, C and D are just a shell for a AA sized cell.
    Then there's the amp-hour capacity issue: comparing a AA alkaline primary cell to a AA NiMH cell they're not bad, but if you need C or D, not so great. A D-size alkaline primary cell is about 15000mAh, as opposed to the 2450mAh of these NiMH cells.
    Once you factor in the cell voltage and start comparing on the basis of watt-hour capacity, it's even worse.

    I'm not so much an advocate for contunuing to manufacture and use single-use primary cells as you might think, but many devices just aren't designed to use rechargeables. Change the designs so, for instance, a 4-cell AA device runs well on 4.8V instead of 6.0V nominal, and it's okay. But if you have older devices that don't give you the option of adding one more cell to make up the difference, you might find you're going to have a problem.
    • by Veretax ( 872660 )
      I hate to be devils advocate, having rechargeable batteries is great, but how many will stil just throw them out.
      • If the environmental breakeven is 50 charges then it almost never makes sense to use rechargeable. I've got a kid. Not many toys make it past two battery charges ...

        Many toys are either energy efficient or too boring to keep. Only the play tunes at bedtime toys use large quantities of batteries, and even for those, I'm only at about 10 replacements. I just changed the batteries in a favorite backhoe after 2 1/2 years of operation.

        • The only time in my life I was using rechargeable batteries regularly was when my parents bought me a portable cassette player. Those things chewed through AA batteries really fast.

        • Well, since they're not soldered into anything it's not like you can't take them out and use them in something else later. ;-)
        • Exatly the problem is buying crap toys that are thrown out after 5 minutes.
        • Well, I have two children and rechargeable batteries are a blessing. I use a Duracell 8 places charger, and it is always charging a bunch of them. Add to this 30 batteries for room temperature controls (recharged about twice a year, ten years of operation without a fault), and you get the picture of how much one can save in money and pollution using NiMH batteries. I only regret - as pointed out in TFA - that actually there are no viable solutions for recharging button-shaped batteries, and they are used ev
          • I only regret - as pointed out in TFA - that actually there are no viable solutions for recharging button-shaped batteries, and they are used everywhere. I wonder if one day technologies like supercapacitors could repalce them.

            I hear that there is a 2032 rechargeable on the market. I can even find them on Amazon. A bit pricey though.

        • I think the only AA-powered devices we have where we hit the 50 recharges are the Wii remotes.
          But I wonder if the 50 isn't a mistake. Looking at AmazonBasics, the rechargeables' financial cost payback time is about 6 recharges. Is it likely that the environmental payback time is a factor of 8 times longer?

      • I think that's the 'how dumb are people' factor. There's also the 'how good is someone at planning ahead' factor. NiMH cells don't charge in a short amount of time, they typically take overnight; some cells are 'fast charging' but those typically have a shorter lifespan because charging at a C/1 rate is harder on them than a C/10 rate. So if you need them for something you use all the time, you have to have at least 2 sets of NiMH cells around for it; more if it's something high-drain that's used very often
    • by Ichijo ( 607641 ) on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @09:48PM (#60559282) Journal

      A D-size alkaline primary cell is about 15000mAh, as opposed to the 2450mAh of these NiMH cells.

      No, D size NiMH cells are 10,000 mAh [thomasdistributing.com].

      I just wish more devices accepted 18650 Lithium-ion cells.

      • We're discussing Ikea though, and Ikea doesn't appear to sell D-size NiMH cells. Most places I've walked into don't seem to sell them either. Also do you know how long it would take to recharge those? Rhetorical question, I know how long it'd take. Most people aren't going to feel it's practical, especially at $15 per cell, and they'll still under-perform compared to an alkaline chemistry primary cell; 12WH for NiMH versus 22.5WH for alkaline. Between that and the recharge time at C/10 and I can see potenti
        • by Ichijo ( 607641 )

          We're discussing Ikea though, and Ikea doesn't appear to sell D-size NiMH cells.

          Then they should start, or they should stop selling devices that use D-size batteries, if they sell any such devices now.

          Also do you know how long it would take to recharge those? Rhetorical question, I know how long it'd take.

          At the recommended charge rate of 0.3C to 0.5C [batteryuniversity.com], it would take between 2 hours 0 minutes and 3 hours 20 minutes. Is that the answer you were thinking of?

          [NiMH cells will] still under-perform compared to a

      • It's rather common for them to sell NiMH "D" cells that are merely a AA sized cell in a casing. Actually not a bad choice, in some cases, for their very low weight (and avoiding the extra failure points of e.g. multi-AA to D cell adapters. e.g. these https://www.amazon.com/Energiz... [amazon.com]
      • by The1stImmortal ( 1990110 ) on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @11:37PM (#60559506)

        No, D size NiMH cells are 10,000 mAh

        Always wondered how people ended up using thousands of milliamp-hours as a common thing instead of just going back to the base unit of amp-hours.
        Especially for round numbers like 10,000.

        (I know it's from the source you linked here Ichijo and I'm not blaming you!)

        • Always wondered how people ended up using thousands of milliamp-hours as a common thing...

          I always wondered how people ended up using milliamp-hours when talking about energy storage, instead of using an actual unit of energy like milliwatt-hours, watt-hours, or joules.

          • by jabuzz ( 182671 )

            Because the amount of energy you can get out depends on the discharge current, and it varies wildly. So using an amount of energy stored for batteries is in general meaningless.

      • by jabuzz ( 182671 )

        Take a look, you can get AA, C, D and PP3 batteries now that are basically a Li ion cell with included discharge/charge electronics that charge using a standard micro USB lead and charger. Here are some examples

        https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0... [amazon.co.uk]
        https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0... [amazon.co.uk]

        That said there are a range of uses for which I would only ever use a primary cell. The first is things like wall clock, weather sensors etc. does not make sense to have a rechargeable when you only replace the battery once a year or l

    • Not sure how one company that is probably one of the last places I think of when I need batteries endangers the minute number of devices that require C and D batteries. Guess I'll just go to Costco when my boom box from 1986 needs some batteries replaced. Yes, I know there are still plenty that need them, but it's one companies decision, not a ban.

    • while I'm not disagreeing with you on the facts, I think you're missing a point here. It's IKEA saying they'll remove them from their home furnishings. Given that that they're not selling heavy duty flashlights or remote control cars, but rather, mostly clocks, wouldn't rechargeable batteries suit their product just fine? Like yeah, rechargeable batteries have it's problems, but given what I've used them for in past 2 decades, I haven't had a problem. Not clocks, small mp3 players, wii joycons, wall clocks,
      • Not necessarily disagreeing with you either, but I did touch on how suited a given device is to use NiMH instead of alkaline primary cells. One of the anecdotes I drew on is a friend who, like me, likes the 'Atomic Clocks' that auto-set themselves from the WWVB time sync signal. She uses NiMH cells in them for environmental reasons, but the displays on the clocks are always a little dim (if one can apply that word to reflective LCD) and you have to view them at an odd angle. Initially I told her "the batter
        • by jabuzz ( 182671 )

          What you suggest already exists in all common battery sizes. That is a lithium cell with integrated charge/discharge electronics than you charge from a standard USB charger with a microUSB lead. Here are some AA sized ones

          https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0... [amazon.co.uk]

          They give you a flat 1.5V voltage discharge curve. It's a brilliant idea and frankly putting the charger in the cell is genius. Everyone under the sun has access to a USB charger just about everywhere you go.

        • I've got one of those atomic clocks that I've had for years now. I just use plain alkaline batteries in it, because they last a long time. Long enough actually that I've had issues with them starting to leak. Anyway, I've measured the voltage on them when I finally change the batteries, and they get down to 0.95-1.0 V or so before the clock stops working right.

          Likewise, I have one of those AA-powered MP3 players from back when those were popular. I don't use it as much anymore, but back when I did I wou

    • A proper D or C NiMH cell would easily outstrip an alkaline (or, shudder, a zinc-carbon) cell. But many NiMH cells of that size are mostly empty space. Many are AA cells in a larger plastic shell.

      The fact that a AA NiMH cell can almost replace a D alkaline cell speaks to how much better NiMH cells are.

      • Mmm, no, alkaline cell capacity is higher than NiMH for the same volume. The tradeoff is the alkaline cell is one-time-use, and the NiMH can be recharged. As someone else pointed out there are real D-size NiMH cells you can buy, but they're expensive, and as I pointed out, a 10AH NiMH would take a considerable amount of time to fully charge, which likely makes them impractical so far as most people would be concerned.
    • by catmistake ( 814204 ) on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @10:06PM (#60559318) Journal

      Primary cells of the AAA, AA, C and D cylindrical types have a nominal terminal voltage of 1.5V.

      Similarly sized NiMH cells have a nominal terminal voltage of 1.2V.

      Many devices designed for 1.5V cells either won't function, will function poorly, or may stop functioning sooner due to this.

      Everyone says says stuff like this, but it just isn't all that true.

      New alkaline resting voltage is 1.65V, but as soon as you put a load on it, unless it is a very tiny load, voltage will sag to about 1.35V, then over load time curve steadily down to about 1.2V, then curve more rapidly down to 1.0V before dropping off the cliff at the end of it's capacity.

      Fully charged NiMH cells have a resting voltage of about 1.44V. NiMH resist voltage sag far better than alkaline, and some can handle as much as 8A and still ride the line at 1.2V for their entire discharge before dropping at the end of their capacity.

      So the list of electronic devices designed for alkaline that do not work work with NiMH is vanishingly small, and, generally, would be things with extremely low amp draw, like 5mA, that would not sag the voltage of an alkaline under load.

      • Not sure if I agree with your reasoning. You have to consider nominal voltage, not 'fresh out of the package presented with a >=10k-ohm DMM' or 'freshly charged complete with surface charge', because that's what you should be doing if you're designing something that's going to run off battery power. Also while the internal resistance of an alkaline cell and of a NiMH cell are similar (the NiMH actually being better in that regard, more suited to high current demand applications) they're both going to sag
        • You have to consider nominal voltage

          Nominal voltage only makes sense when a cell has a "nominal" voltage. NiMH does, very load independently they manage to stay around the 1.2V across much of their cycle. Alkaline doesn't. It starts big and then drops continuously. If you device is depend on voltages higher than 1.2V as you asserted, then you'd be throwing out an Alkaline battery that has more than half its rated capacity remaining.

          Device manufacturers take this into account and therefore there are very few devices on the market that actually

          • Considering that I've seen a number of devices over the years that didn't work well at all on rechargeables versus primary cells I still don't agree with you as completely as you'd like. Also consider that how well/thoughtfully something is designed is a factor. If the engineering was shoddy to start with and all Marketing cared about was $thing working properly on new batteries then it might not do well on partially discharged batteries regardless of chemistry.
        • You can compare the datasheets for the Eneloop and and a Duracell alkalines here:
          https://docs.rs-online.com/247... [rs-online.com]
          https://docs.rs-online.com/2a2... [rs-online.com]

          So of course the alkaline nominal voltage is 1.5 and the NiMh is 1.2 but I'm not sure it's a very useful metric to design around. Basically if you want to get decent usage out of an alkaline, your device needs to accept 1.6 and work until 1.1 volts or so. And for the NiMh cells... it's 1.45 to 1.1v. So unless your device only works with in the range of 1.6-1.45,

          • As I stated elsewhere the discharge curve, how flat it is, and how sharp the 'knee' is, are important factors, too, and as I just got finished writing above how well $battery_powered_device was designed is a factor to consider. I don't have an engineering degree but I've had a couple long-term jobs where I was given engineering tasks, and in both jobs it was battery-powered devices and systems, so while it's been a while I still remember quite a bit. There were things I worked on that worked fine with fresh
      • by green1 ( 322787 )

        "Vanishingly small"? I'm sorry, you obviously haven't looked at battery powered devices very often.

        My electronic door lock chews through alkaline cells in about 2 months and I'd love to use rechargeables instead, but it has a big warning on it not to do so and to only use primary cells. Looking online, many people have tried pretty much every type of rechargeable out there, they all lead to unreliable operation, and needing to replace the batteries on a near weekly basis. This is due to the lower voltage. U

        • by Khyber ( 864651 )

          "My electronic door lock chews through alkaline cells in about 2 months and I'd love to use rechargeables instead, but it has a big warning on it not to do so and to only use primary cells. Looking online, many people have tried pretty much every type of rechargeable out there, they all lead to unreliable operation, and needing to replace the batteries on a near weekly basis"

          Nickel-zinc. 1.6V, just slightly lower Ah capacity vs primary alkaline cells. But charging them can be finicky and their usual maximum

          • by green1 ( 322787 )

            charging them can be finicky and their usual maximum charge/discharge cycle count before reaching 70% capacity is around a meager 150.

            Well, you're really selling them there!

        • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

          For poorly made devices that require 1.5V nominal voltage, they actually make lithium rechargeable batteries. These devices aren't lithium primary cells, they contain a tiny lithium-polymer cell and voltage regulator chip. They require a special charger.

          And yes, the regulator chips are smart - when the lithium cell runs low, they automatically reduce the terminal voltage gradually to trigger the low battery warning.

          They even have 9V batteries that work in a similar way, the primary difference is you don't n

        • I would say your rechargeable door lock is not well designed. It chews through batteries like crazy because it actually expects the batteries to have around 1.5 V, so when they dip below that the lock doesn't work right. If you look at the discharge curve for an alkaline battery, they don't stay at 1.5 V very long under load, but they'll stay above 1.2 V or so for a long time. So most alkaline battery powered devices are designed to work down to 1.1 V or so in order to claim decent battery life. If your

      • The quick change for rechargeable from 'working' to 'dead' can be very problematic as not giving user much warning. This is an issue where you don't immediately have replacement batteries that are with you.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        These days most battery powered devices use boost converters anyway, or maybe they have a few cells in series and a buck or LTO regulator. So the battery voltage isn't all that important.

        Even stuff like torches are usually constant current LED drivers now, even the cheap ones.

        This used to be a problem, back in the day my Lego motors would only run really slowly on NiCd C cells, but not any more.

      • So the list of electronic devices designed for alkaline that do not work work with NiMH is vanishingly small,

        A product that relies on alkaline batteries giving at least 1.5V, even on small load, is badly designed. It will probably fail after using only 10% or so of the battery capacity. The thing is, would the customer notice? If the period between changing batteries is long enough, customers will believe they are getting good battery life out of the product.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • In other words, it's a pretty low impact announcement... They don't sell a whole lot that needs batteries. It's a furniture store.

        • by green1 ( 322787 )

          They sell tons of things needing batteries. look at their cabinet lights. Despite the fact they're designed to be permanently, and stationarily mounted, they use absurd numbers of batteries and have no hardwire option. They also chew through them in a couple of weeks.

          • They sell tons of things needing batteries. look at their cabinet lights. Despite the fact they're designed to be permanently, and stationarily mounted, they use absurd numbers of batteries and have no hardwire option. They also chew through them in a couple of weeks.

            They do sell other cabinet lights that are plug in. I have some in my kitchen.

      • I'm not forgetting that, actually, but it's only one factor amongst several contributing to overall performance. As I said to someone else I'd have to pull up the data needed to calculate everything out for an on-paper comparison, I don't keep all that in my head anymore.
    • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      >Primary cells of the AAA, AA, C and D cylindrical types have a nominal terminal voltage of 1.5V.
      >Similarly sized NiMH cells have a nominal terminal voltage of 1.2V.
      >Many devices designed for 1.5V cells either won't function, will function poorly, or may stop functioning sooner due to this.

      This is complete nonsense that has reality backwards. AA Alkaline operating range is ~1.5V - ~0.7V. All correctly built devices will accept voltage in this range as their operational voltage, because alkaline vol

    • If the voltage provided by NiMH is too low, you can switch to NiZn which has a terminal voltage of 1.6V.

    • One of the problems with some rechargeable technologies is indicating low battery, before the battery actually dies. This is fairly easy to do with alkaline batteries, as the voltage falls steadily from 1.5V at the start of life, to about 0.75V at the end of life, depending on how the battery is loaded. All you have to do is measure the battery voltage on a known load.

      With some rechargeable technologies, particularly Lithium, the discharge curve is virtually flat, up to the point where the battery is practi

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Not sure why they sell batteries. What do they sell that needs them?
    • by JBMcB ( 73720 )

      Mainly portable lamps, flashlights, and some small kitchen appliances.

      • by green1 ( 322787 )

        Many of their stationary lighting requires absurd numbers of batteries, with no hardwire option. I have 4 of their cabinet lights that use 6 AAA batteries each, they also only last a couple weeks to a month on a set of batteries. I gave up and modified them to connect to an AC adapter, but they sure aren't designed for it.

        I hate that so many products that are not designed to ever move also don't have the option of wiring them to power and insist on chewing through mountains of batteries.

        • Well that's their next evolution in replacing product lines that require a shit-tonne of batteries!?

        • That's really ridiculous. Batteries-only should be limited to things that are wireless by nature (remote controllers) or are reasonably expected to move a lot
          • by green1 ( 322787 )

            But the world is going the other way. "electric" used to be a synonym for corded. now it's a synonym for "battery powered", and while many electric devices should be battery powered, that should always be the last resort, not the first choice.

            20 years ago, every house built was pre-wired for motion and door sensors, and all those sensors were hardwired. Now they don't run wires, and all those sensors are battery powered. Worse yet, even if you have the pre-wire, most new systems can't use it and use batteri

  • by bobstreo ( 1320787 ) on Wednesday September 30, 2020 @10:25PM (#60559346)

    It works for AA, AAA, C and D cell batteries. 9v? nope.

    I can usually get more extra charges for the batteries (depends on a bunch of things) if the charger detects that there are no faults.

    It was a gift so the only cost is the time (and electricity) it takes to recharge, which it tells me when I toss discharged batteries into it.

    I have a bunch of AA nicads, which I either toss into their own chargers, or use one of the solar chargers I have around the house. I've had most of those batteries for over 10 or so years and only a couple of them have degraded to the point where they won't hold a charge anymore.

    • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      Most alkaline batteries can be recharged, but only a few times, usually less than ten . The problem is that during charging, gasses will form within the sell, causing rupture. You'll usually recognise it by cell leaking, and since electrolyte is usually corrosive, there better not be anything valuable under the charger.

      Notably, you can in fact recharge 9V alkalines just as well as AA, AAA, C and D cells. Chemistry isn't different. More likely, it's a limitation of your charger, because voltage and current c

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      The problem with recharging alkaline cells is that they leak. You might get a bit more use out of them but you risk destroying your devices.

      The IKEA NiMH cells seem to be made in Japan, which means they are re-badged Eneloops. They are extremely high quality and reliable.

    • 9v? nope.

      Shouldn't surprise you. Try putting 6 AAA cells in series and charging them. It probably won't work either. Why is that relevant? Well a 9V battery is simply 6 AAA
        + an extra A (apparently can't write the next smaller battery name because Slashdot thinks your post is ASCII art) cells in series.

      A 9V alkaline battery has an internal resistance of 1-2ohms. A AAA battery has an internal resistance of 0.15ohms.

      • by Megane ( 129182 )
        That's also why modern 9V batteries often don't fit. They're 1-2mm longer because of the length of 4A cells. Older 9V batteries were made out of six stacked rectangles. I had a 4A-style 9V that came packed with a device, and you couldn't fit it through the battery door with the connector attached. I had to take apart the device to get the battery in.
    • https://www.amazon.ca/Energize... [amazon.ca]

      9v rechargeables have been available for a while. The problem is the button cell batteries.

  • Waste can be further reduced if people dont buy half the crap that require batteries...
    • by green1 ( 322787 )

      Better yet if companies didn't design things that were never designed to move to require batteries instead of just plugging in to a wall socket!

      That and kids toys... There is no bigger use of batteries in this world than kids toys!

  • Rechargeable s don't have the same voltage as the other ones, 1.2V vs 1.5V for example.

    • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      1.5V alkaline is nominal voltage. It goes down rapidly as battery discharges. Near empty alkaline voltage is around 0.7-0.8V and hardware designed for alkaline batteries should accept it.

      Ni-MH cells are far better at holding voltage, staying steady at 1.2V until they're nearly empty. Which is why there is actually hardware that will have warnings against using alkaline batteries in it, because it won't accept such a big operational voltage range. It won't break, but it will usually stop working when alkalin

      • Devices made for the 3V 2032/2025 button-style batteries (cycling computers, car keys/remotes etc) regularly stop working when the voltmeter will still show ~3 V (new ones are some 3.3 V I believe). Are these just two small "1.5 V" alkaline cells in series, or do they use a different chemistry?

        • by aXis100 ( 690904 )

          Definitely different chemistry. 3V ones are lithium based, 1.65v versions are zinc-air.

        • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

          Those are lithium cells. You should NEVER use lithium cells in AA devices. Lithium cells are 3,7V nominal and they will kill devices that accept AA batteries.

          Problem is, they look the same, so you have to be careful about it if you use both alkaline and lithium cells of the same form factor.

  • It's all about naming that makes them product sell.
    It's a wonder that they didn't use a Danish name to rebrand this filthy product.

  • I don't think this makes sense for many common use cases. While rechargeable batteries are great for many things that use a lot of power, they make little sense for other scenarios. In particular, scenarios where batteries are seldom replaced because of low power usage or infrequent use.

    Some examples: E.g. my remote controls have batteries, but I don't replace the batteries every year. And I can't use rechargeable batteries for devices that I use very rarely, but which need to have power when I use them -

    • by mccalli ( 323026 )
      Interesting, however on the lifespan - I'm still using the same sets of batteries I got with my wireless keyboard and trackpad in 2010 - just rotating them. So 100 months is pretty realistic for some use cases I think.
  • by havana9 ( 101033 ) on Thursday October 01, 2020 @04:20AM (#60559888)
    A problem with NiMh is the self-discharge that is higher compared to the alkalines. In applications like wall clocks, remotes, SRAM backup and so on the current draw is very low so a NiMh self dischardes before a comparable alkaline will be depleted.
    • It's not significant in modern low self-discharge batteries. Standard Eneloops are advertised to hold 70% of their charge after 10 years. I'd estimate that I change batteries in my clocks yearly, and remotes every few years, so the amount lost is dwarfed by the amount used even in extremely low usage devices like these.

  • There are a lot of rechargeable battery technologies, and saving on the single-use alkaline batteries is a good goal. However, settling on NiMh as a standard is a poor idea. NiMH is limited in charge cycles, and has a 20% lower energy density.

    I realize it's a lot easier to have ONE corporate goal of ONE battery type. However, setting the battery type based on usage will result in more savings. Yes, some prices will go up, but since nobody competes with Ikea (crappy Swedish furniture with incomprehensibl

  • IKEA batteries and lightbulbs were crap IMHO anyway.

    But where rechargable batteries make sense (phones, electric toothbrush, cordless electric lawnmower) there are usually specific form factors and a charger build in so that you just need to plug theminto a power supply.

    Alkalines make great sense for low power, long standby stuff like remotes, wall clocks, smoke detectors, wireless keyboard/mouse.

    This is not the age of Walkman and Gameboy when I was a heavy user of rechargeble AA batteries that required a

  • I do not know if they are still on sale much, but the old zinc chloride batteries are cheaper than alkaline, so one might be tempted to use them in a non-demanding application. Don't bother, this is a false economy in nearly all cases. Someone did some some tests on this years ago (can't find the web page), and found many reasons to prefer alkaline over zinc carbon.

    1) Your money buys more capacity when you buy alkaline less frequently than the weaker zinc chloride.

    2) Modern alkaline cells have far better sh

  • by AndyKron ( 937105 ) on Thursday October 01, 2020 @06:20AM (#60560080)
    I don't care as long as they don't say goodbye to their Swedish meatballs and gravy
  • by brunes69 ( 86786 ) <slashdot.keirstead@org> on Thursday October 01, 2020 @07:06AM (#60560162)

    There are numerous applications where low cost alkaline batteries are preferred and almost required

    - Applications that are very low-drain spread out over a long period. Think remote controls and clocks.

    - Applications where batteries frequently sit for long periods without use, then need to be able to power high use for a short burt, then sit idle again for an extended period - children's toys.

    - Applications where you have to power a functional low-cost item. If I am selling a widget on local classifieds for $5, I am not going to throw in a $2 battery with it.

    - Outdoor applications in cold climates. NiMH batteries simply do not last in the Canadian winter.

  • How about the coin cells? Are they saying goodbye to those too?

  • Without proper infrastructure for the safe recycling of the wide varieties of rechargeable cells, the only option are relatively safe alkaline cells. Modern alkaline cells do not contain toxic metals and chemically degrade into relatively innocuous compounds when buried in a landfill.

    My state (California) does not permit me to discard alkalines in household garbage, but also does not offer any option for disposal that doesn't involve driving 15 miles to the worst part of town, parking outside a facility tha

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