SD Cards Are About To Get Insanely fast (betanews.com) 81
The SD Association announced today that SD cards are about to get faster than ever, thanks to the SD 8.0 Specification. From a report: With SD Express technology, which is based on NVMe and PCIe, you will eventually be able to buy an SD card with speeds nearing 4GB/s! "SD Express uses the well-known PCIe 4.0 specification and the latest NVMe specification (up to version 1.4) defined by PCI-SIG and NVM Express, respectively. SD 8.0 specification provides two transfer speed options for SD Express memory cards. The two transfer speeds are accomplished by supporting either PCIe 3.0 x2 or PCIe 4.0 x1 architectures with up to ~2GB/s and with PCIe 4.0 x2 technology with up to 4GB/s. SD Express cards offering PCIe 4.0 x1 architecture use the same form factor as defined for SD 7.0 specification cards with a second row of pins to deliver transfer speeds up to 2 GB/s. SD Express cards supporting dual PCIe lanes (PCIe 3.0 x2 or PCIe 4.0 x2 technologies) have three rows of pins," said the SD Association.
Why Not Quad? (Score:2)
Looking at the images in TFA, could have just gone straight to quad channel quite easily and saved a generation of releases... or maybe they're just seeing what the uptake will be like first I suppose.
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Re:Why Not Quad? (Score:5, Interesting)
Nothing in the SD card form factor will support those kinds of speeds anyway. Too much heat dissipation, lack of big RAM caches etc.
Remember that SD cards are designed for portable devices, speed is only one factor alone with power consumption and heat dissipation.
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In the meantime, my new 3D Printer has crappy USB 2.0 interface and its SD Card slot writes at 4 MB/s.
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Your 3D printer probably needs to read the card at something measured in B/s, so what's the big deal?
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It probably doesn't need to write to cards either.
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Actually due to the way the firmware is written it is possible that some printers can timeout because of how slow they read SD cards. You get this with printers trying to print GCODE with lots of comments in them, specifically those embedding images. They start streaming the file out byte by byte and after 4 seconds of not actually reading a valid command they watchdog reset themselves.
Mind you the limitations on those printers is usually a crappy 8bit microcontroller.
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The limitation is badly written firmware and/or badly setup watchdog timers. It has nothing to do with them being 8-bit.
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Why is that apalling? The CPU is controlling three or four motors and maybe a couple of sensors. That's what microcontrollers are for.
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A decent controller is also doing a fair bit of math (interpolating curves, calculating acceleration/deceleration going into corners, the extra work needed for delta machines, etc.), updating the display, reading the front panel, etc. in addition to just sending numbers to the steppers. It's nice to have a bit of headroom in a realtime environment if for no other reason than being able to update the steppers more often, particularly when relatively fast 32-bit controllers are cheap. Smoothies are preferre
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8-bit doesn't mean it's slow. But the vast majority of hobbyist 3d printers are based on pretty standardized open source hardware, so if you think 32 bit is the bomb, just build or buy a 32 bit controller. Hell, you can cram a Raspberry Pi 4 in there if you want. Consensus seems to be that there are lots of other parts to upgrade that make a whole lot more of a difference.
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8-bit doesn't mean it's slow.
For math, yeah, it kinda does. The 8-bit ATmega chips require at least four register load instructions to perform even basic addition/subtraction for numbers bigger than 8 bits, and then at least two addition instructions. This is substantially slower in total clock counts than doing the same thing on something like a Cortex M3. On top of that, the ATmega is running at 16 MHz and the Cortex is clocked almost eight times faster. That's not to say ATmega chips are bad - they'r
Re: Why Not Quad? (Score:1)
I'm looking to upgrade mine and primarily need a controller with lots of extra well documented I/Os, a performant MCU with lots of memory
preferrably also TMC5160 controllers and motor closed-loop. My printer is heavily customised with non-standard extra peripherals.
I've been looking at SKR 1.4 turbo and Duet 3D.
Anything in particular you can comment on, or recommend before I take a deep dive into the traditional time & monetary investment in the wrong thing?
Any experience would be helpful.
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I had looked into getting a Replicape to put on my Beaglebone Black, but those use TMC2100s for the steppers, so they may not have the current handling you need, and I'm not sure they're even made anymore. I'd also looked at the Duets, but at the time they were a little more pricey. I hadn't really looked for anything that had the 5160s simply because I didn't need that much current handling. I ended up putting a Smoothieboard v1 on my delta, but I suspect that probably will not be enough to do what you
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It's appalling to people who think that everything in the world from microwave ovens to light bulbs need an Intel i7 and 8gb ram.
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I don't know what kind of tiny trinkets you're printing, but most of my files are measured in megabytes.
Sometimes the problems we have with SD cards is not necessarily the read speeds but the non-compliance with SD timings standards. Going with faster SD cards simply insures cards that comply with those standards, the read/write speeds are not necessary.
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...Going with faster SD cards simply insures cards that comply with those standards, the read/write speeds are not necessary.
We still market and sell our gasoline-powered automobiles in the 21st Century using the idiotic power metric of horses.
While I see your point regarding standards, the Bullshit Artisans in Marketing will ensure read/write speeds are "necessary".
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3D printer files are measured in kilobytes, but hey let's bitch about that performance impact at 4MB/s.
WHAT???
I am right now printing a design which has a GCode of 110 MB. And it's not even a big model, it is 104.65mm x 104.65mm x 154.76mm. There are Gigabyte-sized GCode files out there.
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In the meantime, my new 3D Printer has crappy USB 2.0 interface and its SD Card slot writes at 4 MB/s.
And if either of those were the limiting factor they would be addressed. The reality is your 3D printer is operating at mechanical maximum speed not at all limited by USB 2.0, but rather limited by the CDC library pretending to be a COM port operating at 115200 baud, and even then it's actually possible to overflow the input buffer while sending it commands to move in a circle, i.e. even *that* painfully slow speed is faster than your printer can handle.
So if you want to spend money for no reason why not ju
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There are other factors, except merely inserting a SD card in and choosing "print" from the printer menu. With OctoPrint you can monitor the printer's behavior and which commands are being sent, also send commands from the terminal and so on and so forth. There are models which print better directly from the SD Card than printed via OctoPrint, which points to the problem you already mentioned: "the CDC library pretending to be a COM port operating at 115200 baud". I print complex models directly from printe
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It could also be the SD card, as many SD cards are not terribly fast. People also don't understand the class system either. The class system is designed around devices like digital camcorders that do continuous writes to the SD card for writing video. People buy a class 10 SD thinking it must be the best, but all that does is say you can write at 10 MB/s continuously to a non-fragmented card. If you're writing lots of small files, writing to fragmented card, or doing reads, performance can vary signific
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So what you're saying is they should have gone "Fuck everything, we're doing quad-channel!" style.
Hope they pay attention to security (Score:3)
Yet another removable PCIe-based interface - hope they learn from Thunderbolt 3 and don't just allow open DMA. Did nobody pay attention to the DMA issues with Firewire?
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Yet another removable PCIe-based interface - hope they learn from Thunderbolt 3 and don't just allow open DMA. Did nobody pay attention to the DMA issues with Firewire?
I think what Firewire conclusively proved is that it's an incredible non issue for nearly everyone except for those of us hiding from state actors.
Re: Hope they pay attention to security (Score:3, Interesting)
Or from me. Cause this is how you turn your city into a botnet. Every office you are invited in has a PC. Everyone you talk there, can be made to leave for a minute. The hardware for doing it can be bult by any crafty teenager at a computer club.
And there's nothing like having your own personal botnet. The proxy capabilities alone are worth their weight in gold.
Please stop your deluded self-comforting
blackeyer arguments. Everybody groans. Get a grip on reality.
Look at me. I'm the state actor now! :)
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You've now been indexed. You're no threat at all; if you do it, They will know right away and shut you down.
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Do you want to turn your city into a botnet? Because that's how BAReFO0t turns your city into a botnet. /Archer
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Clearly not even it's own mechanical designers did because the port keying was insufficient to prevent 25-30 volts unregulated flowing backwards into the ground pin while you are fumbling with connections under the desk. I liked that external drive
So, you are basically saying... (Score:5, Interesting)
1) There is an external connection directly to the local bus that a random bit of kit can be plugged into. (whoo boy, I cant wait for the blackhat love on that one.)
2) (derived from 1)-- It should now be possible to install a legit NVME style SSD inside an otherwise crippled chromebook, via exploitation of this exposed bus, using an adapter.
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1) There is an external connection directly to the local bus that a random bit of kit can be plugged into.
Yes, another one. We've been there with all fast interfaces, and the world didn't end. Unless you're hiding from the CIA you'll be perfectly fine.
Re: So, you are basically saying... (Score:1)
Riight. And you probably.also still believe Wikipedia is the encyclopedia that "anyone can edit"... --.--
How mich do you /need/ that comforting delusion of yours, to get through the day?
Look! a conspiracy theorist, hiding under the floor boards, lurking behind the shadows! He's going to get you! ... and tell not everything is sunshine and candy floss, ... and then what?
But Apple and Dell both say SD cards are dead (Score:2)
Apple dropped it completely from laptops, and all of the new Dell laptops leave the card sticking out so you canâ(TM)t safely leave it in.
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Yup. I used to keep my micro-SD card adapter in my laptop's slot, but my latest Dell leaves it sticking out, so now I don't always have it with me. Does anyone still use full-sized SD cards? How about just switching to micro-SD slots?
Re: But Apple and Dell both say SD cards are dead (Score:2)
With the new standard, full-size SD slots in 6"+ phones & tablets might not be a bad idea, space-permitting. At least, to give the first few generations of SD-express cards a little more breathing room for things like sram cache, heat-removal, etc.
Gen-1 devices could use tiny discrete components in a SD-size enclosure, gen-2 could shrink them to purpose-built ASICs that can fit inside microSD-size enclosures.
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Well, if this leads to SD cards being the next generation of PCMCIA cards, then yes, full-sized cards have a new purpose. But I think the things people would want are already available as USB devices, so it would be a challenge to produce a SD-card format product at a competitive price.
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Re: But Apple and Dell both say SD cards are dead (Score:2)
Apple is dead. -- SD cards
(It just doesn't know it yet. But the moment Jobs died, its fate was sealed.)
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I think they dropped it because the speeds weren't up to spec with what people expected from their high end phones. At least that's what I've always heard, other than the excuse of limiting expandability to enhance profits. Maybe now that they don't have that excuse, they can bring back SD cards.
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I remember Apple's argument from one of their Keynotes was that recent cameras had wi-fi anyway so SD card readers were obsolete, or something to that effect.
Paraphrased: if you're a dirty peasant who can't afford an expensive ultra-high-end camera then you can't afford our luxurious laptops anyway, so screw you.
Wait, what? (Score:3)
This is a tech post??? Who let this through? Don't they know that this site is all about politics?
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Don't they know that this site is all about politics?
Msmash wrote:
about to...
...followed by:
eventually
Surely there's enough stupidly-applied spin here to qualify, at least in spirit.
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Politics? I though this was the official website for COVID-19 news!
And what of the killer app? (Score:1)
with speeds nearing 4GB/s!
I'm struggling to watch porn at the current blazing speeds!
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Nevermind the fact that almost noone can view it properly (yet), and most homes are physically incapable of supporting a realistic ratio of screen size to viewing distance anyway, megapixels are to many photographers and videographers what MHz/GHz were to gamers a decade or so ago. It's the next big thing and almost everyone simply MUST have it, whether they actually need it o
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The good thing about high resolution is that unlike 3D there's practically no drawbacks. Once the technology is mature there's no major price difference, if you're too far away or you have too poor vision you simply don't see it. It's not like you need some obnoxiously expensive camera gear to go higher either, the Blackmagic 6K is $2500 + a decent prime. The upcoming Canon R5 is doing 8K and probably retailing for $4-5K. The Snapdragon 865 is supposedly even bringing 8K video to cell phones, even though I'
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Will make your porn look like a nature documentary (Score:2)
Hold My Flame. (Score:2)
Stand by....the Zero-To-HOLYWTFISGOINGON speed record for hardware spontaneously combusting (previously held by unstable Samsung batteries) will soon be destroyed by "insanely fast" memory cards...
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Everyone is obsessed with transfer speeds, physical speeds, etc. All I want is a faster coffee machine. I've been waiting for three minutes now!
Oh wait, this is the radar machine.
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If you use it correctly, the radar machine IS a faster coffee machine.
This is marketing fluff (Score:2)
The interface isn't why SD cards are slow. The storage is why they're slow. This is just marketing fluff.
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No that's not really the case at all. Sure cheap SD cards have cheap storage and are slow, but no amount of fancy NAND or magic controllers will make an SD card read more than 250-300MB/s. There are very real speed limitations on the interface.
XQD and CFast2 memory cards proved there is a market for faster cards, the SD Association is simply catching up to try and prevent becoming irrelevant.
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Then why is NAND flash so much faster when I use a parallel interface and a microcontroller?
The interface is the whole bottleneck, other than that I can build it however fast there is money to justify.
I'll wait (Score:2)
After the 'Insane Mode' always comes the 'Ludicrous Mode'.
Chips (Score:2)
I just can't help wondering why we don't call SD cards a chip. Because well, basically that's what it is - a painted piece of silicon.
Amazing technology, but zero protection against environmental issues apart it small size itself making it somewhat shockproof. Getting your phone x-ray'd at the airport is a nice way to fry a less lucky SD. I'm wondering how this shrinking technology relates to things like lifetime, ESDtolerance and retention. In other words, if it'll still be reliably usable to carry around
Re: Chips (Score:1)
To distiguish it from other kinds of chips. :)
And I don't mean the edible kind.
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My SD cards have gone through x-ray scans dozens of time and I've never had a single issue.
Mine all went fine too except that one time it's fried.. Probably a slight overdose because they stopped the belt and scrolled back and forth couple of times to examine my other stuff... Was working fine on the plane, was straight dead SD card when i powered the phone getting the luggage. If found it peculiar too. Admitting any electronics could be damaged equally chance though and that it could've been something else than the scanner.
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Most electronics are pretty resilient again x-rays. In fact they routinely use x-ray machines for inspection at assembly houses.
I suppose it's impossible to rule out any possibility but it seems like there's an equal chance that it finally gave up the ghost due to some sort of mechanical failure or damage from a long-ago ESD strike. Early flash chips especially were infamous for gradually cracking through due to assembly issues. It was amusing to take apart a broken flash drive only to find the IC visibly s
This will need cooling. (Score:1)
I wonder how they solved cooling..Because AFAIK, PCIe 4 bridges have a large heat problem.
And I donâ(TM)t see that working for basically a chip in a plastic isolation.
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Can't wait to see SD cards made with a titanium casing.
That's great and all, but ... (Score:3)
Can we figure out how to label the cards and ports so you know what are the fast ones?!
The current list Class 2,4,6,10 U1, U3 UHS-I UHS-II, UHS-III, SD SDHC SDXC SDUC (I,II,III, and I express!) is a dog's breakfast.
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Yeah! Let's do the same clusterfuck that the USB group did and retro-actively rename all the older SD speeds!
Raspberry Pi (Score:4, Interesting)
Does this mean the Raspberry Pi will finally have a decent SSD subsystem?
The existing SD card is a poor substitute for a SATA drive.
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And a SATA drive is a poor substitute for a portable electric grill.
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Short answer: No.
Long answer: No.
Only middle-to-high-end systems will be fast.
Low-end systems will continue to be the same speed; they could already easily be faster if that decision was going to be made.
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Brought to you (Score:3)
Brought to you by the same people that made 1 Gbit Ethernet adapters on USB 1.0 dongles.
UHS-II cards already overheat in some readers (Score:4, Interesting)
In my personal experience. And we are talking open-air readers. And UHS-II cards only go to about 300 MB/s. I can't imagine what's going to happen with the heat at 4 GB/s when the card is inside of a camera, smartphone or other device.