Oregon Supreme Court Approves Measure To Limit Self-Checkout Lanes (gazettetimes.com) 406
nickwinlund77 shares a report from Corvallis Gazette-Times: A petition to limit each grocery store to two self-checkout kiosks can move forward to signature gathering for a state ballot measure. On Friday, the Oregon Supreme Court certified the attorney general's description of the proposed measure. Backers need 112,020 signatures to get to voters' ballots in November. Filed in July, Initiative Petition 41 is backed by the Oregon AFL-CIO, a coalition of labor groups representing about 300,000 Oregon workers.
"We have been consistently concerned about the impacts of technology and automation on the livelihoods of working people, especially when they have no voice in how technology is used in their workplaces," Graham Trainor, president of the Oregon AFL-CIO, said in a statement. "You can see expansion of self-checkout machines in stores across the country and in Oregon." He said jobs are lost as a result. The AFL-CIO contends self-checkout kiosks make customers feel socially isolated, particularly elderly people, and that the kiosks let stores rely more on part-time workers and leaves workers "feeling devalued." They also claim self-checkout stands make it easier for minors to buy alcohol and for people to steal from stores. The measure would give the state Bureau of Labor and Industries enforcement power and let it issue penalties for stores that provide too many self-service stations. "Today's customer wants convenience and less hassle when shopping," said Joe Gilliam, president of the Northwest Grocery Association, an industry group. "This is evident in the growth of online shopping for local pick-up and home delivery. This measure is tone deaf to what the public is demanding in the marketplace."
He said that self-checkout lets customers check out more quickly and privately. He said presuming that self-checkout machines would replace workers is "simply untrue."
"We have been consistently concerned about the impacts of technology and automation on the livelihoods of working people, especially when they have no voice in how technology is used in their workplaces," Graham Trainor, president of the Oregon AFL-CIO, said in a statement. "You can see expansion of self-checkout machines in stores across the country and in Oregon." He said jobs are lost as a result. The AFL-CIO contends self-checkout kiosks make customers feel socially isolated, particularly elderly people, and that the kiosks let stores rely more on part-time workers and leaves workers "feeling devalued." They also claim self-checkout stands make it easier for minors to buy alcohol and for people to steal from stores. The measure would give the state Bureau of Labor and Industries enforcement power and let it issue penalties for stores that provide too many self-service stations. "Today's customer wants convenience and less hassle when shopping," said Joe Gilliam, president of the Northwest Grocery Association, an industry group. "This is evident in the growth of online shopping for local pick-up and home delivery. This measure is tone deaf to what the public is demanding in the marketplace."
He said that self-checkout lets customers check out more quickly and privately. He said presuming that self-checkout machines would replace workers is "simply untrue."
Not surprising (Score:5, Insightful)
Until recently, they didn't even let you pump your own gas in Oregon. Maybe now those unemployed pump attendants can get jobs as checkers, while the rest of the world moves on.
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For most of the state, you still can't.
Those lucky enough to live in eastern OR (hello from umatilla county!) can, but the rest of us are stuck waiting on a surly gas pumper to stop chit chatting with the girls in the other car to do something you can very easily do yourself.
Re:Not surprising (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Not surprising (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm a little surprised they don't require you to have a pothead hanging around to plug in your car safely.
Re: Not surprising (Score:4, Insightful)
Instead, why not spend that money and effort on improving our schools, creating accessible job training programs, and building opportunities for careers people actually want?
How shit are your gas stations? (Score:2)
I'm from central/western Europe, so I may not know, but over here ALL gas stations have a large roof. And the nozzle handle is not more dirty than any door handle. In case you reall need to clean up, there are paper towels, and a toilet. (In Germany they are cleaner than in the US. In France... not so much.) But since no gas can spill, given the built-in stopper when you pull it out or gas reaches the nozzle, that paper is only for other purposes.
And you don't pay at the pump, but go into the little shop, m
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"I'm from central/western Europe, so I may not know, but over here ALL gas stations have a large roof. And the nozzle handle is not more dirty than any door handle. In case you reall need to clean up, there are paper towels, and a toilet."
And plastic gloves if you want them, for Diesel for example.
"And you don't pay at the pump, but go into the little shop, maybe grab a snack or drink, and pay everything at the checkout."
I prefer to pay at the pump, being located in Luxembourg, where gas is cheaper than in
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Found the Oregon resident.
Re:Not surprising (Score:5, Interesting)
.
But thanks to a new law that went into effect on January 1, customers can now pump their own gas in Oregon, though only at stand-alone gas stations in counties with fewer than 40,000 residents. Elsewhere, the ban still holds.
I think they and NJ are the last two holdouts in this area. In the other 48 states, as one article put it, "every day, tens of millions of Americans in 48 states pump their own gas and—miraculously—manage to avoid setting themselves on fire or drowning in gas."
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Hurr durr, I wonder if that's why we do it that way, or if we just know that having somebody else do it is a luxury that is nearly free because of economies of scale, and that also reduces wait times in cities? And prevents gouging of people who need help doing it, like the elderly and disabled?
What if it costs somewhere between nothing and a penny, prevents exploitation of people with special needs, increases convenience, and is generally a luxury, all at the same time?
But at least you didn't set yourself
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Nothing is stopping gas stations from offering the service if people want it. The fact is that given a choice people will choose the self pump stations. But you don't want to give them the choice.
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No. Some special interest, 300,000 cashiers in this case, is telling everyone else what they really want. ("They" is ambiguous on purpose in this case.)
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And prevents gouging of people who need help doing it, like the elderly and disabled?
Gouging? Then make it illegal to charge extra for a filling station employee to refuel a vehicle. I didn't even think of this until fairly recently when I saw a gas station cashier fill up a car for someone with a handicap license plate. The filling stations have policies and practices in place for the disabled already, either to comply with disabled access laws or to just be good neighbors.
and that also reduces wait times in cities?
If pumping fuel for customers makes things move more smoothly then I'd expect filling stations to offer this servic
Re:Not surprising (Score:5, Insightful)
why is a grandma with an oxygen tank driving a vehicle?
if you're not fit to move 10 feet to refuel your vehicle then you're certainly not fit to drive it.
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You just accidentally took away "full service," and grandma is dragging her oxygen bottle up to the pump to fill it. Sure, she'll manage, but we don't do it that way.
I didn't "accidentally" anything. Nice job on cutting my post short in your quote, as I already explained why this concern is bullshit. Again, filling stations already provide this service at no charge, either because the law requires it or because it is just good business. There's also no law that says "grandma" cannot give the attendant a buck or five as gratitude, and by doing so this also encourages good business.
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We have gas stations that only sell gas, nothing else at all, and have no attendants on site at all. You are forbidden by law from having such a thing.
There are also times when one wants to buy gas without interacting with another person. You are forbidden by law from such a thing.
You remind me of the sort of person who was against eliminating Indiana's ban on Sunday alcohol sales.
You are like a deaf man telling people with hearing how unnecessary hearing is.
Re:Not surprising (Score:4, Insightful)
Here in NZ, people are free to fill their own cars.
But several filling station brands here still provide a free attendant service if people want or need it.
It’s not difficult, and it’s not a case of “either force them to provide it or they will gouge the needy”. Something’s broken in your society if that’s the case where you are.
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Your government legally prohibits you from doing something the rest of the country does every day and you thank them for it?
Is that Stockholm syndrome?
I've only ever had gas pumped for me maybe twice in my 30+ years of driving. It's not a luxury to be disallowed to pump gas. It would be a huge pain and waste of my time.
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No, you still can't pump your own gas in Oregon.
No, this is not even going to get on the ballot. Self-checkout is very popular here.
It isn't about jobs, though. That has nothing to do with how people view either of these situations here.
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Yep, they provide shit service which is why I won't use the curb-side options they're trying to push out.
I use self-checkout just because of bagging. I don't know what grocery stores are doing but employees doing bagging are horrid. When I've used checkout lanes with people I've tried to order the items I put on the belt in order to influence how they bag everything and I still get them doing things I don't want like mixing the raw meat with the fresh produce or loading heavy items on top of lighter items w
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Now now, those of us in NJ still can't pump our own gas; so we also will not be moving on with the rest of the world.
Self checkout sucks. (Score:4, Interesting)
Machine: "please place unbagged item in bagging area"
"god dammit"
Machine:"please remove unscanned item from bagging area"
"fuck off stupid robot"
-- repeat half a dozen times. --
Machine: "please select the number of store provided bags" (don't get me started on that stupid ordinance)
If skynet and the rise of machines ever occurs, it will be after a few decades of this sort of frog boiling -- but we can clearly see their intent. Rather like a tiger cub playfully growling and trying to rip off the zoo handler's fingers.
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My local shoprite now has more self checkout (13) lanes than manned lanes. One person oversees them all but my food isn't any cheaper...
My local Lowes only has one or two open manned checkouts, of the four self checkout lanes only one accepts cash and the scale on that one always complained of unexpected items for half a year. Half the time one or more is out of service.
My local Home Depot has completely switched to the self scanning lanes manned by a total
Re:Self checkout sucks. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Another great question would be, if the self checkout and assisted checkout both have lines, which line are people more willing to wait in? (the self checkout line)
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That would only be a great question if the deck wasnt completely stacked.
The self-checkout line probably has 4+ self-checkout stations; vs the assisted with just one. (moving it faster)
The self checkout stations tend to be smaller and less convenient to use for large shopping carts full of purchases, so the line self-selects to people with smaller numbers of items. (moving it faster)
The self-checkout line is primarily used by people who know they arent going to have a problem with self-checkout. (ie everyth
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I tried ordering through the automated mcdonald's kiosk. You can add patties and cheese, which the workers ignore.
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I go to the self check out, I scan my items. If it complains about something not on the scale I hit the "Item in cart" button and move on. See I'm smarter than the self sca
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There's no reason to suspect that lowering costs would translate into lower prices. That's not how what economics dictate would happen except in very rare cases of perfect markets.
I suggest you look up oligopolies.
Re:Self checkout sucks. (Score:5, Interesting)
I won't use the self check-out lanes.
Generally, when I shop I purchase quite a load, but even when I've tried to use it for small items it is a hassle.
The latest funtastic time is if an item doesn't have a price in the system. It just beeps and then locks waiting for an attendant. It didn't actually say what was wrong and after the third try I gave up. It was then with a human we discovered the issue.
The only time I found self-checkout of any value was during a huge snow storm. The store doors automatically unlocked and lights turned on. However, no employees actually made it to the store. There were one or two self check-out lanes at the time and everyone actually used them. There was a story on the whole ordeal and the lack of theft. I just assumed the employees were understaffed and busy.
Re:Self checkout sucks. (Score:4, Interesting)
Sounds like you need self-scanning.
I realise that this may blow a few people's minds here... but it's possible to scan your items as you put them in the trolley, either using a dedicated bit of hardware, or your phone with an app. As you go, the device tells you how much you've got in your trolley and can also tell you about specials and multi-buys or whatever. I guess they could even offer recipes and stuff, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
When you want to pay, you just put the device in the slot, or scan your phone's QR code and the cash machine shows you your purchases and asks you for money. You pay and leave. On some occasions, a store worker may look at your receipt and in your trolley just to make sure you're not taking the mickey.
Although in truth, I almost never do this any more either - we just buy it all online in the first place.Same supermarket, same products - no scanning, no checkouts, no driving, no screaming kids, and no queues.
It sounds to me like Oregon has none of these facilities available. It does seem to have pump attendants and queues at supermarket checkouts though.
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Same sort of hassle in Iceland, just in Icelandic :
I wouldn't mind checking my own groceries, if only the machines weren't designed around the presumption that all customers are trying to steal from the store. As if a thief would be so dumb to ever bother setting an item they were trying to steal in the bagging area in the first place : It's insulting and annoying to have the machine constantly giving me commands because I took too long to do something / did something too quickly / set something down fo
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That sounds like the way it was 10 years ago here. The machines get better when they upgrade. The new ones work quite well these days. You're in a small market, it will take a little time.
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They're getting a lot better, the ones at Fred Meyer can now scan produce and then weigh it.
Also, the "frog boiling" thing is complete bullshit, it isn't a thing, and it has been refuted many times. You've probably already been told that many times, stop saying it, you look really stupid.
Oh, and I don't know which is better, not having plastic bags blowing down the streets all the time, or the fact that it triggers you. Every time you get mad at basic environmental stewardship, a spotted owl giggles and sha
You suck. (Score:2)
My procedure, here at Rewe in Germany:
- Put backpack on scale in the right, and select "own bag" on the screen.
- Scan items and put it in my backpack.
- Throw in coins into the large hole or put bills onto the slot.
- Grab change and put it in my wallet.
- Take my backpack and walk out.
If I have no backpack with me, I start by grabbing a bag from the shop, scanning it as my first item, amd putting that there wherr the backpack would be. No screen input needed.
Notice how except for "own bag" I never had to touc
No vested interests here ... look over there --- (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yeah, let's not let the market, ie customers, vote with their feet as to which model they prefer. Government knows best, for all of you.
The summary says that if 112,020 (or more) people sign a petition then it may be added to the ballot. Then the populous would need to vote for or against it.
How is that government deciding for us?
Take it easy, it isn't ALWAYS a battle. (I wasted a mod point to post this)
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You can't vote with your feet (Score:2)
Grocery stores are heavily subsidized in a wide variety of ways (roads that bring them their goods, schools that educate their workers, and lets not forget farm subsidies).
Furthermore the wealthy that own them also push a "Job Creator" narrative every time we talk about taxing them to pay for social services and threaten us with unemployment and death (since in America if you don't work, you don't
Union moves like this give conservatives fuel (Score:5, Insightful)
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having too many is bad customer service. I don't mind stores using them but having 1 associate managing 8 kiosks does not end well when it's busy.
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I avoid them. If I have a gift card, buying alcohol, or heaven forbid the item weight doesn't register correctly.... then there are the machines getting locked up.. or waiting around 2-3 minutes for an employee to come and sign in to let me continue.
Sounds like a local problem at your supermarket. That kind of situation costs me at most 15 seconds. Also weighing? You still use that archaic system?
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Both cherry tomatoes and grapes are bundled inside a container with a barcode and you end up weighing it at checkout.
Peanuts you might have me there. I think they have plastic tubes loaded with nuts that you can fill a bag with. I've never bought those that way so I don't know how they handle it but my guess is that it's similar to the bulk rolls I've bought before where you just have to do item lookup at checkout. Regardless, it's an overall minority of items available at the store, and low volume specialt
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You'll find that on this issue it is only Conservatives that agree with the Union.
Customers demanded it because they understaffed (Score:2)
No enemies? Sorry, it's the Unions... (Score:2)
Somebody back 18 years ago tried to tell me at Syracuse that these machines had no enemies, so there's nothing that could go wrong. Now look where we are... the unions are trying to get more jobs out of limiting these machines.
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If they manage to get it on the ballot, the results will show this union to be what we call "the exception that proves the rule."
The only way it gets on the ballot is if they cheat and force union members to sign it. But private unions aren't popular here. Most public employees are unionized, but few private sector workers are. We're liberal, but individualist. We love self-checkout.
It is their job to try, but that is also why most people don't want to pay dues. Except in the public sector, then they don't
Get real (Score:4, Insightful)
>"He said jobs are lost as a result."
"Buggy whips"
>"The AFL-CIO contends self-checkout kiosks make customers feel socially isolated"
And they make others feel more empowered and less annoyed when they don't WANT social interaction. Especially since they are typically SINGLE LINE arrangements, which is also MUCH fairer and much faster.
>" leaves workers "feeling devalued."
Not the ones I have seen, who oversee several machines and help people in a far more interesting and less boring way.
>"They also claim self-checkout stands make it easier for minors to buy alcohol"
I am guessing this is nonsense. If you try to check that out, then it stops and calls for a cashier approval.
>"and for people to steal from stores."
Why is that Oregon's government's concern? Don't you think the stores are more interested in doing what is best for their revenue? I suspect that stores who think it is too risky will simply not use them. IT IS THEIR MONEY THEY MIGHT LOSE.
If they wanted to do something, they shouldn't limit how many self-checkouts, but make sure there are limits to how few regular/non-self-checkout lanes there are. Because some stores do have too few of those, for when you have too many items or actually expect to need to deal with a cashier. But you know what? That is ALSO the store's concern, not the government's. Piss off too many customers and they will complain and/or go elsewhere.
Look, I *HATED* the kiosks when they first came out. Not because of the concept, but because they were SO HORRIBLE. Too slow, too crappy (the machines would get confused and stop and call for help all the time), sometimes with no cash option, and usually with no remote scanner for large items. Seems everyone else hated them, too. My local stores ripped them all out, as a total failure, after just a year or so.
Then, a few years later, they reappeared. And guess what? They fixed every single problem I listed, above (and more). Now they are generally a pleasure to use. And I mean ALL of them. Walmart, Target, Home Depot, Wegman's, every single one I have used now is fast, easy, featurefull, and accurate.
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This is what these people don't understand. There are no new jobs for the people being replaced. I like to make the argument of automation being the new NAFTA. People at detroit didn't just get "shiny new jobs" to replace what was lost to Mexico's "cheaper labor".
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But that is no excuse to legislate poor work practices in order to keep jobs.
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>"But that is no excuse to legislate poor work practices in order to keep jobs."
Exactly.
It is silly to try and legislate obsolete jobs to remain. Those workers can do something else, and hopefully something that is productive. Yes, over time, it does require people have new/more skills and abilities.... but that has always been the case. The result is that, on whole, employees have less overall work, more "interesting" [less menial] work, and everyone has a better standard of living due to those facto
I'm tired and it's been a long day (Score:3)
TL;DR; Buggy whip makers were put out of work. So were the Luddites. They were not immediately employed in new jobs with new tech. There was decades of unemployment, war and social strife following the Industrial Revolution that they just gloss over in 100 level History classes.
Tell me what jobs are going to replace the 20+ million jobs about to be automated. Be specific.
Don't say biotech, that was the answer in the 90s and
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Why is that Oregon's government's concern?
You're confused. This is happening at an early stage of a direct democracy process.
They've been allowed to start the petition process. If they get enough signatures, then it goes on the ballot as a ballot measure. Then we vote no, because we don't want this, it is a stupid idea, everybody agrees, left, right, center. We actually have many more sides than that, but this is the one issue that everybody agrees on.
We've had direct democracy since 1905. We have no Ebil Gubermint that tells us what to do; we the
For what it's worth: (Score:2)
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The problem is that jobs are being lost much faster than these people are dying. The people that these machines replaced still need to work 20 or 30 more years. What do we do with all those people when the truth is that no "new jobs" exist for them?
The automation problem is the same thing that happened in Detroit. Except now automation will be everywhere, and not just confined to the automotive sector.
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1. By "Detroit" I meant NAFTA and factories relocating to Mexico, taking Detroit down in the process.
2. I'm talking about automation in general, not cashiers. You have to be very dense to try to steer your argument in that direction
3. "people just don't like self-checkout and want to force their opinion on others" yeah no, you're not steering your argument in that direction, you flipped your car and you're in the ditch now.
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2. I didn't steer my argument anywhere. The law in question here is about cashiers specifically, and not about automation as a whole.
3. The majority of people only care about automation if it means things will cost more/less, if it means they'll lose their job, or if they're directly interacting with the automation and it annoys them... life self-checkout or automated phone trees.
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Oregon doesn't have "employment problems." We have less people willing to sacrifice their lives to the grind. That results in statistics that confuse people from some places.
We also have a strong Unemployment Insurance system that leads to more confusing statistics.
And even when there is no line at the attended-checkout, most customers will choose the self checkout. And in fact, many customers bag their own groceries at the attended checkout; it is uncommon for a store to even have "baggers," and most peopl
Modern Day Luddites (Score:5, Insightful)
While the term luddite is thrown around quite frequently, these union thugs are the exact modern analog to the historical luddites. They want to destroy technology because they fear loss of jobs. Pathetic.
Who is this "public" that demands self-checkout? (Score:2, Interesting)
Does anyone use self-checkout for any reason other than "The line was too long at the regular checkout"?
The process is much slower and more error-prone. It doesn't even save on staff as much as you'd think. They have to have an employee standing by to rescue customers when they or the machine screw up. True, they only need one employee for about four self-checkout stations but the throughput of those four stations is barely more than one human staffed checkout.
I still think legislating how many self-chec
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The only time I DON'T use the self-checkout is when I'm buying alcohol, since I know I'll require an interaction with an employee, anyway. In every other instance, I use the self-checkout.
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The stores I shop at, I scan the alcohol, the computer at the attendant station beeps, they glance at me and press a button, and the machine tells me to bag my wine.
Although, I do first glance at them to see if they're busy, in which case I'll scan it at the end.
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Yeah I do. Sometimes I just don't feel like interacting with someone and making idle chit chat. Sometimes I'm tired, had a bad day, or not feeling well and just want to do my thing and get the heck out as soon as possible. Also I'm usually faster than the cashier is at ringing things up (maybe that comes from being a cashier in my youth, who knows?). I usually use one unless they're all bac
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Is "idle chit chat" an american thing? I live in Argentina and I NEVER had a chit chat with the cashier, or anyone else in line.
I've also heard american workers are required to smile all the time. That's not a thing here either.
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Yes. Oregonians. There can be a line at the self-checkout even while there are completely open attended checkout lines.
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I love self-checkouts. I'm far faster than any checker, even when I have to key in a code. AND I don't have to do the fake pleasantries. Plus I'm never comfortable with strangers doing things for me.
They're a win/win for me.
The grocery store âoesocialâ club (Score:2)
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I donâ(TM)t need somebody looking out for my social well being at the grocery store.
We are all very relieved to hear that, Mr. Binks. Thank you for sharing.
What about the farriers? (Score:2)
Every gas station should be required to have a farrier shop in the back with a blacksmith to make horseshoes -- countless thousands of blacksmithing jobs were lost by the technological invention of the car, and it's only fair that these unnecessary jobs be brought back. Since Oregon already requires that gas station attendants pump gas, then the farrier can also pump gas if he has and downtime in between shoeing horses (assuming he can successfully complete the extensive safety training that I assume Oreg
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It turns out, no special training is needed to be the person stuck inhaling the gas fumes so that I don't have to.
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you can't wipe your own
Careful with that, you might start a new fetish.
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It might not be new.
We're also the leading state in strip bars and escorts.
Chic-fil-a ordering kiosks (Score:3)
I went through the Chic-fil-a today around lunch time. They have the usual drive-through horrible microphone +speaker ordering system everyone has. But the ones around here don't use it. They pay people to stand outside of the kiosk and as you for your order. It's 3x as efficient as the kiosk. I said "I want a chicken sandwich" and the guy said "Grilled, spicy, or regular?" I said "spicy" and he replied "wait... headset chatter... that will take 3 minutes longer, is that okay?" I was in a rush to get to a work meeting (I know, sad that I don't have 3 minutes...) so I said "regular is fine." He swiped my card and the food was ready when I got to the window.
They had 3 people doing this at once, with 3 cars. Had this been any other fast-food restaurant, using the regular kiosk system, it would have taken much longer.
The lesson here is: Use technology when it works, and abandon it when it doesn't. Maybe it is time to automate-away the state legislature...
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I see you can write, so you do know the words. If you also learn to read you'll discover that nobody is going to ask the State Legislature's opinion. They don't set policy, they don't choose what the rules are, their job is figure out the budget, and other administrative matters. And pass uncontroversial laws, because anything controversial will get referred to the People for a direct vote.
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I'll use them (Score:5, Insightful)
When they give me a discount. The store is saving money by not paying people and they certainly aren't passing those savings on to me.
Re: I'll use them (Score:2, Insightful)
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This is how great the current system is. In the olden days I'd be stuck behind you in that line, or you'd be stuck behind me. Now we don't even have to share a line.
More Quickly? Balderdash! (Score:5, Insightful)
"Self checkout" lanes are invariably slower than going to a human cashier. And the frustrations are pretty high. I'll do self-checkout if I have only a few items and no coupons, but for a shopping cart full of groceries and some coupons? A human can run that through ten times faster.
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It's a ballot measure, not a law. (Score:3)
Moving on.
This is truly fucked-up. Automation is good! (Score:2)
Look, *nobody* wants to be a cashier!
It is a mind-numbing job, that insults the human intellect, and is only taken out of desperation. I.e. lack of better choices.
Being able to automate it away is the best thing ever. Now we can focus on doing something better, while the dumb machine generates wealth all by itself.
The real *problem* is not people losing shit jobs. It is losing their *income*. The little wealth they have.
The *real* real problem is that the wealth generated by those machines is never ending u
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No. YOU wouldn't want to be a cashier. Neither would I. But there are plenty of people completely fine doing that job, and a lot of other menial tasks. In fact, most people are like that.
But let's go back to your affirmation: the machine is now generating wealth. It's generating it for the Walton family, not for the cashier. What do we do with all
Self driving next for them? (Score:2)
Self driving next for them?
Say trucks and taxis must have an paid safety driver in them when on the road?
False Promises (Score:5, Interesting)
I hate the self checkout kiosks. I'm an IT guy, I'm a technology guy, and I love me some gadgets. But I hate the self checkout kiosks.
Why? Because of the anti-theft measures. Scan something, better be able to bag it or put it on the scale, otherwise you're blocked. You can't put the large items back into the cart, everything has to stay on the scales until the entire transaction is completed.
Maybe kiosks make sense if you have 12 items or less, but trying to checkout in the grocery with a full cart of stuff is one of the worst shopping experiences ever.
And if you do get blocked because the weight difference isn't right or you don't have room on the scale for the item or another bag or whatever, god forbid this happens when the store is busy and the one person they have helping folks at different comfort levels with scanners check out their items... You'll stand there waiting for so long that all of these potential "time saving" measures are lost.
I don't have to do this in the regular lane. I can bag and throw back into the cart, put big items directly in the cart, etc. No anti-theft issues since there is a person other than me scanning the stuff.
So I'll continue to wait for the person to scan my stuff for me.
If, however, they ever do get that concept of "just push cart thru scanner and all is done", I'll think about using the automated checkout. But it would seem that most stores have given up trying to advance passed the self-scan checkout kiosks...
This has happened before (Score:5, Interesting)
The same thing will likely happen here. Retail stores are trying to compete with online stores. Self-checkout lanes help lower their costs, and thus helps them compete with the lower price of online stores. Some (many?) of those stores will not be able to compete, and will close. Resulting in more jobs being lost than if they'd just allowed self-checkout lames.
Unions are fine when they fight against stupid or unfair management practices. But when they oppose streamlining a business to make it operate more efficiently, they're shooting themselves in their own foot.
Re: (Score:3)
In the 1980s, factories wanted to automate - add robots to their manufacturing lines - to lower their costs. Unions feared the loss of jobs and fought this tooth and nail, managing to keep most robots out of the factories. As a consequence, two decades later when container shipping dropped overseas transport costs through the floor, manufacturing (+ shipping) ended up cheaper in China. So all those U.S. factories closed, replaced by new factories built in China. Instead of some union jobs being preserved running the robots in automated U.S. factories, every single one of those union jobs was lost when the factory jobs were outsourced entirely to China.
The same thing will likely happen here. Retail stores are trying to compete with online stores. Self-checkout lanes help lower their costs, and thus helps them compete with the lower price of online stores. Some (many?) of those stores will not be able to compete, and will close. Resulting in more jobs being lost than if they'd just allowed self-checkout lames.
Unions are fine when they fight against stupid or unfair management practices. But when they oppose streamlining a business to make it operate more efficiently, they're shooting themselves in their own foot.
You'll never get anywhere trying to argue the law of unintended consequences. People that don't get it won't finish reading your comment and are much more likely to call you a name.
obviously slanted (Score:3)
But how the hell is a self checkout quicker than a teller? Self checkout you have to scan and put away your stuff. Manned checkout you put away while someone else is scanning. You also don't get lost in the menu trying to find the whole wheat kaiser bun when all you see is 20 different white bread options or whatever. I can't see how amateur scanning things once a week can compete with someone doing 10+ checkouts an hour.
Luddites... (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
You shop at Wally World, you're just livestock to them. Why would you expect customer service? Even at Fred Meyer (Kroger) there is a customer service worker for every 6 self checkout stations, and you can easily summon them via eye contact.
And then you just walk out the door, unimpeded.