MacBook Pro Teardown Confirms the New Keyboard Is Basically Just the Old, Good Keyboard 43
iFixit's teardown of the new 16-inch MacBook Pro confirms that the keyboard uses the more reliable scissor-style switches that Apple first introduced in its Magic Keyboards in 2015. The Verge reports: The switches on the 16-inch MacBook Pro are so similar to the standalone keyboard, in fact, that iFixit's report says that keys are interchangeable between the two products. The change comes after a long, multiyear debate between Apple and customers over the butterfly switches, causing Apple to revamp the mechanism multiple times to block debris and add extra strength. Apple was also forced to acknowledge that the keyboards were problematic, and offered an extended warranty program for those laptops. Per iFixit, the new keys also have more travel when you press them (about 0.5 mm more), and the keycaps themselves are about 0.2 mm thicker compared to the much-maligned butterfly switches. The teardown also notes that the clips that attach the keycaps to the switches appear to be more reinforced to make it easier to remove or replace them down the line.
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For that matter, I'm somewhat surprised that Apple doesn't make a mechanical keyboard that they sell as a "Pro" model. Too bad Jony Ive was so concerned with thinner when he could have been making things "more clicky" instead.
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MSI makes some laptops with mechanical keyboards, look into that.
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We can charge more!
Just my 2 cents
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Ascetics
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
Re: Still trash though. (Score:1)
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I think Razer introduced one last year - a gaming laptop with a mechanical keyboard. It was an ungainly thick beast though
Model M for Macs from unicomp (Score:5, Informative)
Unicomp (the company that inherited the Model M keyboard from lexmark, which in turn was a spinoff of IBM for printers, keyboards and such) makes a USB model M with Mac layout, flower/command key included. Check into it
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I've never really liked any laptops keyboard. If someone could figure out how to fold up an IBM model M into a laptop I'd probably buy that for the keyboard alone.
For that matter, I'm somewhat surprised that Apple doesn't make a mechanical keyboard that they sell as a "Pro" model. Too bad Jony Ive was so concerned with thinner when he could have been making things "more clicky" instead.
I personally prefer a laptop with a 1920's era mechanical "keyboard". The key travel is unrivaled.
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Ah, so you prefer laptops with the beefier and more solid 20lb form factor like the SX-64 and Osborne1, huh?
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Ah, so you prefer laptops with the beefier and more solid 20lb form factor like the SX-64 and Osborne1, huh?
Exactly! imagine a laptop. You open it up and it has the "keyboard" of a 1920's typewriter. Metal hinges and all, CLANK CLANK CLANK. Carriage return , DING!
amiright?
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I've never really liked any laptops keyboard. If someone could figure out how to fold up an IBM model M into a laptop I'd probably buy that for the keyboard alone.
Apple once made a laptop with a real keyboard in it. It was the original Macintosh Portable [wikipedia.org], which predated the Powerbook series. I believe you could get an accelerator which would bring it up to the same level as a IIci (68030/25) but it only came with a 68000/16. It also cost $7,300 in 1989... And the original model didn't even have a backlight.
Every Apple laptop since has had a crappy keyboard, though some have been more crap than others.
How are they trash? (Score:3)
Look, I also love the old clacky keyboards.
But I have been typing on the "old" MacBook Pro keyboard for many years now, and I find it to be awesome - as are the external magic keyboards. To me it's just the right combination of travel and sound, super nice to type on.
In no way are they trash, and the fact that my 2013 MacBook Pro, along with a 2011 MacBook Pro which both see daily use and have never had keyboard issue show that they have extremely good durability.
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Superkendall probably used bootcamp to install a suported version of Windows (or perhaps a hackintosh workaround for a newish MacOS), and the disassembly instructions in iFixit to replace the battery, as it is not soldered or glued in those models...
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If it takes you 40 hours, you are doing it wrong
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I'm cruising ebay and craiglist now for these old gems.
It does not make any sense to buy those old gems on Craigslist or ebay. It only makes sense to do that on machines you already own.
It would better serve your needs a new machine from system 76 or dell if you are into windows, a new mac, if you are into macos(x), o a new windows laptop from the ussual suspects.
Hint: House may have more than one person (Score:3)
Wow, how cool of you to use two computers every day.
Here's a thought - some people may have more than one person in a house?
My wife took over the 17" after I moved on to a 15", and works at home a few days a week using it - along with using it nightly for everything else including a lot of writing. So that keyboard has not any any break in use just because I'm not the primary user any more...
Re: How are they trash? (Score:3)
Iâ(TM)m using a late 2008 MacBook running High Sierra, which is still supported... At work Iâ(TM)m using a Macbook Air with the butterfly keys. I like the new keyboard better, but the old one obviously is more durable.
Ironically the butterfly keyboard is a fully mechanical keyboard with stainless steel switches.
Macsturbation (Score:1)
Re: Macsturbation (Score:1)
How any sane person can be a fan of any corporation is beyond me. Or maybe I'm right and it's either or.
Love the old keyboard and larger screen (Score:5, Interesting)
As an owner of the old 17" laptop, for me this is the spiritual successor - pretty large screen both in size and pixels, great keyboard, fairly beefy specs (if desired to configure it that way).
The nice thing is the new 16" may be heaver than the 15" model by a bit - but is still a tiny bit lighter than my older 2013 MacBook Pro! So it's a win all around to upgrade.
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Not a bad deal either for a MacBook Pro with those specs. I paid about the same for my 13" in 2017 without a touchbar, same size HD, and integrated graphics.
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I have.a 17" MacBook Pro from 2007. And it has the SAME kind of switches shown as first appearing "in 2015".
There might be some very minor changes in dimension or the like... but the mechanism is identical.
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"Great" is a bit strong. It's not nearly as bad as the butterfly keyboards but it's still fairly horrible to type on.
There is very little travel and no tactility so your fingers bottom out on every keystroke. For fast, accurate and comfortable typing you want positive feedback of when the key press has been detected and enough travel and resistance to avoid hitting the bottom of the keystroke hard, and instead just bounce back.
entertaining (Score:1)
It's entertaining to see these stories :)
I've owned a Mac for 5-6 years, including the one complained about with the keyboard. I've never understood why since it works without any issues. People get so butthurt about simple stuff that some people whine about, and it's like watching cockfighting.
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I've owned a Mac for 5-6 years, including the one complained about with the keyboard. I've never understood why since it works without any issues. People get so butthurt about simple stuff
I have a mac with one of those terrible keyboards. I mean you can dismiss any opinion you don't agree with as "butthurt" but it makes you sound like a bit of a plonker. I don't like the lack of travel or the feel of the keys. My typing is way worse on it than a proper laptop keyboard, so for me it is measurably, objectivel
Butterfly keyboard (Score:2)
It's quite nice to type on. I slapped a jelly cover on mine to keep the debris out and while it detracts from that niceness, it's still pretty nice. Wish Apple would've come up with a way to get the debris out easier or keep them out better. And when dust, a crumb, or strand of hair would get in my butterfly keyboard from time to time, a good going over with a Dyson handheld would clear things out.
Re: Butterfly keyboard (Score:2)
Good idea. I spilt some port on my 2007 MBP 6 or 7 years ago. The keyboard backlighting hasnâ(TM)t worked properly since. Given the age of the machine at the time, I was afraid to strip it down to clean it in case I killed the machine. Weâ(TM)re still using it, and the keys stopped sticking some years ago.
It's getting there (Score:3)
Hardcore fan, but glad the experiment is over (Score:3)
I'm really a hardcore Apple fan, but the butterfly keyboard of the 2016-2018 MacBook Pros really had reliability issues. I've got a 2016 MBP and always have to have canned air at home and in the office. Usually it's solved then, except when a piece of debris is really stuck and takes a week or so to loosen. Thank god I work docked (external keyboard/display/everything) during the day, but otherwise I'm happy to move to this new model.
I understand that loads of people actually didn't have any problem with the keyboard. But I think it's a failed experiment, and Apple more or less acknowledges it.
The big question is: will they update the keyboard for all other laptops as well?
It all comes down to money. (Score:2)
AvE on youtube said it best. Things only ever get re-engineered because of money. It sounds so simple but it explains why tech is infuriatingly becoming less and less repairable, even though woke companies try to seem like as if they care about the environment.
Products will get re-engineered it they fail too readily, either causing costs in warranty replacements, or poor sales of the product, or conversely, it’s too good, and they can cheapen the product and increase profits by driving some more sales