Microsoft Unveils Surface Laptop 3 With AMD Processor (venturebeat.com) 48
At its Surface event in New York City today, Microsoft refreshed its Surface Laptop with updated specs, USB-C support, and AMD Ryzen 7. From a report: This is the first time a Surface device has been powered by AMD. Furthermore, while the Surface Laptop 2 only came in a 13.5-inch size, the Surface Laptop 3 is available in 13.5-inch and 15-inch flavors. The Surface Laptop 3 starts at $999 (same as the Surface Laptop 2 and the original Surface Laptop). The 15-inch version starts at $1,199. The Surface Laptop 3 is available for preorder today and ships on October 22. Panos Panay, head of engineering for all of Microsoft's devices, said the Surface Laptop has the highest customer satisfaction of any laptop in its class. He shared that the trackpad is 20% larger, the hard drive is removable, and the laptop is now available in a machined aluminum finish.
Security matters (Score:5, Interesting)
If you're installing Windows 10 ... (Score:3)
Then security is aready out.the window.
Unless you're talking about Microsoft's security. E.g. from the user.
Re:If you're installing Windows 10 ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Care to back up that claim. Like show us a current list of active unpatched exploits against the OS? Or are you happily repeating a 10 year old meme without realising that there are very VERY few bugs discovered or attacks on OSes directly, and that pretty much the only malware people will come across exclusively targets applications or the end user stupidity.
I'm genuinely curious if you were going for a ha ha funny, or just don't understand security.
No, I'm talking about MS owning your PC. (Score:1)
And intentionally leaking/leeching everything they possibly can. To make, not earn, money off of you, manupilate you (ads), and forward that data to anyone with money of a government document.
What drugs are you on, for missing that guess by so much, by the way? ;)
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What drugs are you on, for missing that guess by so much, by the way? ;)
I'm on the kind of non-drugs that allows someone to maintain a point in a conversation. Seriously you converse like a schizophrenic, you need some better drugs. Or at least take all your ADHD medication at the same time.
As for handing over anything to a government, I guess you missed the fact that the government is complaining that MS is suing them rather than actually handing over information. But hey you have your narrative right, regardless of how little you seem to understand about what is going on.
Re:Security matters (Score:5, Interesting)
Don't be silly. The reality is no one cares. Not end users who realise the speculative execution is such a low risk to them, and most definitely not the vendors who are able to shovel whatever they want down user's throats.
This is nothing more than a price conscious decision. Hell the rumours that MS would go this way because of an offer too good to refuse from AMD have been circulating for the best part of 4 months already.
Then there's those of us who wish AMD would show a little more reckless disregard of basic security principles so we could also benefit from more speed. I mean your front door of your house isn't made with dead locked plate steel is it?
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No one? You sure about that? The work arounds for the intel security issues dropped performance so badly that my data center guys are actively replacing everything intel. Intel is dying in data centers due to this.
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No, it was the security issue. See, they patched the servers because of security but then performance dropped because they wanted security, which is causing them to drop Intel.
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And perhaps you should apply your own logic and ask what it was that caused the performance change that caused the change in purchasing decision. Or did your science class only deal with simple p
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No one? You sure about that? The work arounds for the intel security issues dropped performance so badly that my data center guys are actively replacing everything intel. Intel is dying in data centers due to this.
I'm sure the datacentres aren't actively installing Surface Laptops. So yes. I completely stand by my statement, NO ONE CARES.
I have always said from the beginning, datacentres are the only places where this is relevant. For everyone else there's no benefit to running the mittigations.
Re:Security matters (Score:4)
Really? Then you should probably fire your data center "guys" and get people in there that know what they are doing. And at 98% of the server market, I doubt seriously that Intel is dying any where.
I think in the context of a new laptop (Score:2)
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Leave it to an Intel fan to flip the slowdowns with Intel hardware into a snipe against AMD. Really?? You're wishing a product was less secure so it could run a little faster, but still essentially be broken? I guess Intel really is the right product for you.
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leave it to an AMD fan to "feel sniped" at by a statement of merit that also contains provable facts!
I guess snowflakes are your favorite meal.
I like both AMD and Intel... and I also hate them both. Like any self respecting scientist or engineer... we go with the facts and not our petty butt hurts. Yes, our ranks are indeed filled with morons and snowflakes too... per the Universal Laws of stupidity this is unavoidable.
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Leave it to an Intel fan to flip the slowdowns with Intel hardware into a snipe against AMD. Really?? You're wishing a product was less secure so it could run a little faster, but still essentially be broken? I guess Intel really is the right product for you.
Are you daft? The only Intel device I have in the 6 computers in my house is the Surface Pro 3.
Yes Really! For all the security gripes against Intel I truly wish that AMD thought of sloopy spec exec for a speed boost. I do wish my produce was less secure, maybe you missed the comment about my front door. But I wish my devices were faster in exchange for a completely irrelevant security vulnerability much the same as I made my front door out of wood with a normal door handle because I don't want to have to w
Factually false. Even grandmas care a lot. (Score:2)
Actually, here in Germany, old people care the most! More than even tech people.
And Germany is mostly old people!
(Hell, my now dead grandma still knew the Gestapo personally!)
I am pretty certain, that nowadays people like you, with your views, are actually the main cause for people not caring!
You don't treat non-geeks as being of age. Instead of being a leader in your field, you not only follow them, but you also expect them to not care. So they just fall into the mold. Especially kids. Which rely on the g
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I am pretty certain, that nowadays people like you, with your views, are actually the main cause for people not caring!
People like me who advise others to think and analyse risk are a cause for people not caring? Look if a basic risk analysis results in people not caring, then they never knew what they should have cared about in the first place. ... like dead grandma.
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AMD was held back on mobile platforms by the lack of Thunderbolt support. Now they have that they are starting to make inroads.
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Dell even has a support article [dell.com] about all of their computers with USB-C ports that don't support Thunderbolt.
The real issue is that up until recently AMD didn't have good chips, and until more recently good chips that fit in the TDP budgets that most laptops target. Now with the newest Zen 2 architecture they've got both a design and process lead over Intel
Programmers hate AVX512s living guts though. (Score:2)
Don't expect anyone to use that extension in his code. Let alone demand it.
Especially now that Intel is one big bonfire behind a jet engine. ;)
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Thunderbolt seems to be common on business and workstation laptops now. HP and Dell love their docks.
It's great, you just plug in at your desk and get network, monitor, USB devices and charging through one little cable.
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Bah, screw the mobile market :) Have you seen that new Epic processor that AMD just hocked up? 64 cores and 128 treads, 128 PCi 4.0x lanes. Now that is a processor that makes you sit up and take notice.
"... in its class". Nice qualifier there. (Score:2)
Is that the "too limited for a laptop, too fat for tablet" category that only Surface devices inhabit, and that exists at the crossover point between "I bought an iPad to look good" and "I bought an SUV because it combines all the disadvantages from all car categories, with none of the advantages; just how I like it!"
What's wrong with an SUV? (Score:1)
An SUV can be pretty useful. Four wheel drive in modern cities is useful in snow and heavy rain/flooding. If you make a mistake with a curb in an SUV the chances of damaging anything are much less high.
Also they have more space, in the case you want to go on a trip or pick a few people up from the airport.
Yeah maybe they are overkill for a day to day commute, but the gas milage of the modern SUV is mostly not THAT different from the average car.
All that said, I agree with you about the Surface. :-)
Just to be clear... (Score:2)
...you are talking about true SUVs (like a Suburban or a Navigator) and not crossovers (which are tall hatchbacks)?
Then yes, SUVs are useful.
Those are called jeeps. Or trucks. (Score:2)
SUVs are basically normal station wagons, usually with front wheel drive, but so-bad-it's-useless 4WD is possible too, so they can't be used offroad. With raised suspension for extra-shitty handling, made extra-big, so they fit in no (unamerican) parking spot, are extra-heavy, extra-slow or -wasteful, extra-expensive, yet have no more space inside, and due to the extra mass, they are notoriously really bad in crash and roll tests.
Plus, they look butt-ugly. Like the opposite of a sports car. All that's missi
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Four times nothing is still nothing, and all cars come with four wheel braking. If you want decent traction in difficult conditions fit appropriate tyres. Take a look on YouTube there are plenty of videos demonstrating two wheel drive cars out performing four wheel cars with appropriate tyres.
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Four wheel drive helps a lot when you live in a marginal city for snow (like Philly), where dedicated snow tires make little sense, but the occasional snow storm pushes the limits of the so-called "mud and snow" tires that are popular here. Beyond 4-wheel-drive, ground clearance is the single most important feature if you are going to be on roads that have not seen a plow - again, back to Philly, which does not plow any side streets. Still, an SUV is not necessary - a jacked up car like a Subaru is more tha
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Dedicated snow tires have not been necessary for a while. Things like the Michelin CrossClimate, Continental All Season Contact etc. mean you only really need dedicated snow tires if you are right out in the sticks.
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"Is that the "too limited for a laptop, too fat for tablet" category that only Surface devices inhabit,"
You misspelled "ChromeBook."
My Surface does every thing I want and expect of it. My ChromeBook? Not even fucking close.
So you don't want to do anything with it? (Score:2)
And hence don't need a real keyboard?
As I said: It would be a nice tablet ... if it didn't contain high-end hardware on a battery and case that aren't made for being used as a computer.
So sure, if you want to use it as a tablet, while wasting money, CPU/memory/storage power, like a true SUV driver, then go right ahead! Just make sure your money goes to some fund for the mentally retarded or education, instead of Microsoft.
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None of that power or memory is wasted. Space, maybe, because I don't have a ton of shit installed, but it all runs at the same time and is heavily tasked to back and forth, while mobile out in the desert. I don't try gaming on it, but I still tax the hell out of the GPU with Google Earth with several hundred thousand MRDS entries, geological overlay, satellite feed overlays, etc (my dataset brings GTX1080s to their knees on a full state-scale zoom-out. I have to run about 5,000ft elevation to get any decen
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It looks like you've been confused by the stupidly confusing naming around this stuff. The thing that's between a laptop and a tablet is the "Surface", with trim options called the "Surface Pro" and the "Surface Go". In contrast, the "Surface Laptop" is, well, a laptop. It's MS's answer to the MacBook Air, with somewhat better specs and a somewhat worse OS. And then there's the Surface Book, and a Surface Pro that isn't the other Surface Pro, and Microsoft really needs to fire about half of their Naming Dep
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As I commented elsewhere in this thread, I work for an employer who standardized on the Surface Pro tablets as standard issue for our new hires, years ago. That means we're invested in Microsoft Surface docks at all of those desks, attached to external displays, keyboards and mice. So for us, the ability to order a "real" notebook with standard keyboard and hinged lid on it that's still essentially a Surface Pro on the inside is a benefit. People who object to the keyboard cover and tablet form-factor can
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They are referring to the Surface Laptop, not the Surface Pro. The Surface Laptop is an ultrabook. They should probably have given it a different name to avoid the confusion you ran into.
Microsoft is using both, for now... (Score:5, Interesting)
The 13.5" Surface Laptop comes with an intel 10th gen core
The 15" Surface Laptop comes with an AMD chip.
Since the AMD chip used in the 15" laptop is a "Surface Edition", probably was made by AMD's "SemiCustom" division. The same division that produces the processors used by the PS4 and XBoxOne... Most likely Microsoft tuned the Gen1 Mobile Ryzen coress to boost a tad the speed (more Mhzs, slightly bigger Caches) and tuned the included Vega graphics (slightly more speed, slightly higher processing core count) since Ryzens with Navi are not available yet.
It behooves Microsoft to go Full AMD in the X-64 Surface line, since they already have a sizeable bussiness with AMD courtesy of the XBox, but not until AMD ups their game in low wattage applications (think mobile processors), portable graphics (i.e. mobile procesosrs with navi), and integrated peripherals (i.e. integrated Thunderbolt 3 ), but this is a small step in the right direction.
Solid upgrades (for a change, from Microsoft) .... (Score:3)
I was starting to get really irritated with the last few Microsoft Surface Pro revisions. We standardized on them to deploy where I work (at least for employees requesting a Windows laptop vs. a Mac - as we're a mixed environment). And I can practically interchange a Surface Pro 4, 5 or 6 with people and they'd never know the difference. They're really just very incremental upgrades that, IMO, barely warranted labeling them new models. (The main thing is that you spec them with at least a Core i5 CPU and minimum 8GB RAM, with "power users" getting a 16GB, 512GB SSD, Core i7 CPU.)
I've given a couple of people the original model of Surface laptop in lieu of a Surface Pro, too. (Cases where they said they really don't want the keyboard cover instead of a regular laptop keyboard and hinged lid.) I even went that route myself, after trying to use the Surface Pro for a while. The flimsy keyboard cover was terrible for trying to type on it while riding the train in to the office in the morning. I'm reasonably pleased with the Surface laptop, other than the relative lack of ports when not using it with the Surface dock. But this new model actually sounds like a worthy upgrade, if you gain the ability to swap hard drives in it and a 15" screen option. Not sure going with an AMD processor was on my "must have" list, but the Ryzen is a great CPU and I'm definitely not opposed to it here.
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I was starting to get really irritated with the last few Microsoft Surface Pro revisions.
I wasn't. Incremental upgrades on that platform is precisely what a lot of people work. Don't mess with the platform. If you have to mess with something release a different product line.
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There's nothing wrong with consistency.... but the point is, you had to keep paying higher prices for the newer models, and weren't getting much value for the extra cost. I resorted to combing web sites and stores like Micro Center for discounted deals on the previous models when ordering new systems for users, because I could literally buy 16GB Core i7 comfigurations with 512GB SSDs for the same price they were asking for the current model of Surface Pro in a Core i5, 8GB, 256GB SSD config.
Does it have a decent keyboard yet? (Score:2)
Microsoft's keyboards on the previous generations of the Surface line are abysmal IMHO.
A space bar is not supposed to be lumpy.
And keys are not supposed to have a surface more slippery than the teflon pads on the underside of my mouse.
And we in Europe/South America/Japan and other places that use a vertical Enter key would like it properly sized, please! Do not copy Apple's design mistakes!
Or- and hear me out guys... (Score:2)
"The 15-inch version starts at $1,199."
Or you could buy a real laptop for the same amount.
Straight off of Amazon:
Get an ASUS ZenBook- comes with 13.3” Full HD Flip S Touchscreen, 8th Gen Intel Core i7 Processor, 16GB DDR3, 512GB SSD, Backlit KB, Fingerprint, Windows 10 Pro, etc etc etc.
Or for $850 maybe an Acer Aspire 5 Slim Laptop- 15.6" Full HD IPS Display, 8th Gen Intel Core i7-8565U, NVIDIA GeForce MX250, 12GB DDR4, 512GB PCIe Nvme SSD, Windows 10, etc etc etc.
Or for $899, how about an HP Pavilion
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The problem is you only listed one good device there. Every time I give an Acer a chance it disappoints with shoddy build quality. HPs have issues as well, but the Pavilion you list isn't an ultrabook, it's a brick. The Zenbook is the only one I'd say is good but you failed to list a link or the price and the $999 one I searched up doesn't have flip or a touchscreen so it's not apples = apples.
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Those were the first few I found in a price range of $899 to $1200. The point is that there are loads of good laptops out there for the price or less that will do pretty much everything a Surface does. The Surface may have some niche applications, but nothing that couldn't be accomplished at a lower price. Hell, for that matter there are plenty of equally capable tablets out there for less than a Surface.