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Printer HP

HP Printers Try To Send Data Back To HP About Your Devices and What You Print (robertheaton.com) 143

Robert Heaton: Last week my in-laws politely but firmly asked me to set up their new HP printer. I protested that I'm completely clueless about that sort of thing, despite my tax-return-job-title of "software engineer." Still remonstrating, I was gently bundled into their study with an instruction pamphlet, a cup of tea, a promise to unlock the door once I'd printed everyone's passport forms, and a warning not to try the window because the roof tiles are very loose. At first the setup process was so simple that even a computer programmer could do it. But then, after I had finished removing pieces of cardboard and blue tape from the various drawers of the machine, I noticed that the final step required the downloading of an app of some sort onto a phone or computer. This set off my crapware detector.

[...] It was a way to try and get people to sign up for expensive ink subscriptions and/or hand over their email addresses, plus something even more nefarious that we'll talk about shortly (there were also some instructions for how to download a printer driver tacked onto the end). This was a shame, but not unexpected. I'm sure that the HP ink department is saddled with aggressive sales quotas, and no doubt the only way to hit them is to ruthlessly exploit people who don't know that third-party cartridges are just as good as HP's and are much cheaper. Fortunately, the careful user can still emerge unscathed from this phase of the setup process by gingerly navigating the UI patterns that presumably do fool some people who aren't paying attention.

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HP Printers Try To Send Data Back To HP About Your Devices and What You Print

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  • two years ago i bought one of their all-in-one color laser printers, the big ones with the scanner on top. Right out of the box the damn thing was unable to print straight lines, it printed the same exact wiggle at a regular interval. Doesn't take much to imagine there's something out-of-round or a gear has a wiggly tooth somewhere.
    Maybe they should stick to the fundamentals before building-in software no one asked for.
    And yes I don't have a car so I had to carry that dumb thing from and back to the store i

    • I used to buy HP but both the hardware and the drivers got increasingly crappier. At some point I got rid of the noisy, slow piece of crap HP all-in-one, and got a cheap-ish Xerox all-in-one color laser. Brilliant little machine, quiet, does what it needs to do, and has decent drivers too. My only niggle is that the menu on the printer needs a little work.
  • by MobyDisk ( 75490 ) on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @10:07AM (#59203308) Homepage

    My Android phone came with an HP printer driver. It was amazing, because it auto-discovered my printer on the network (it isn't even a wi-fi printer, it's ethernet) and let me print from my phone. The printer has features that connect to the HP cloud but I don't use them. At some point about 2 years ago, the android printer driver suddenly required me to agree to an EULA that talking about monitoring and phoning home. I began to suspect that the way this worked is that the printer phoned home to HP, and the print job was sent to HP, then back to the printer. I never investigated it since there is no way a sane person would agree to that EULA. I just print from my computer. The phone is a too small of a device for reading and printing documents anyway so it was rare for me to even need it.

    • by I4ko ( 695382 )

      Bonour Airprint. Practically every printer these days supports it, no need for drivers and such. Except for some broken HP printers, that won't present it unless they talk with an HP driver to "activate" first. After that they work just fine with no connection other than to a standalone dhcp server with no routes to anywhere

    • by NoMoreACs ( 6161580 ) on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @11:12AM (#59203746)

      My Android phone came with an HP printer driver. It was amazing, because it auto-discovered my printer on the network (it isn't even a wi-fi printer, it's ethernet) and let me print from my phone.

      You can thank Apple for creating (and releasing as OpenSource) both the Bonjour Discovery Protocol and the AirPrint driverless Printer Protocol. I think they released both around 2003 or so (actually, Bonjour is the Zeroconf Discovery Protocol that formed the basis of the AppleTalk network, which dates back to about 1987).

      But that's of course from the Company that doesn't Invent anything.

      However, the "phoning home" crap is all on HP.

      • You realize there were other standards prior to Bonjour (Service Location Protocol for one) but Apple would force Bonjour on anyone making drivers for Mac OSX or installing iTunes on PC. Since Microsoft didn't force people to use a particular standard for Windows, anyone making drivers for Mac and had to use Bonjour would just use Bonjour on both Mac and Windows.

        So, they didn't really invent anything novel, just strong armed everyone into using their standard by gatekeeping on OSX.

        If you see that as a good

      • by Viol8 ( 599362 )

        There's nothing particularly clever about flinging a broadcast UDP packet onto a LAN saying "I'm a printer, this is my name and data port" etc.

        And its LAN only, it doesn't work beyond the local router. The OP must have given some info to HP knowingly or otherwise for it to match his phone to his printer because these days IP address alone is no guide.

  • They have been doing this for around 20 years.
    Click bait headlines suck.

    • by Misagon ( 1135 )

      We know that, but the general public does not understand the scope of what they are clicking OK to.

  • by AlanObject ( 3603453 ) on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @10:09AM (#59203322)

    This again.

    Long ago the entire printer industry settled into a sales model where the printer you buy is really cheap (sometimes even $0) in exchange for the user buying high-margin ink supplies. Canon, HP, Brother, Epson --- they all do it and they couldn't break that model if they tried. The market would rush to buy the $320 (loss leader) printer instead of the $820 printer (some margin) of the same specs each and every time.

    At the beginning there was a technical barrier to entry of making the ink supplies that held the "deal" in place so it worked for the manufacturers. Not for long. Soon cheap alternatives came up including ink re-loaders and reversed engineered cartridges. And we all know how it goes from there. Of course they are going to try to find a way to force you to buy their ink supplies. Paper, as well.

    What I find so tiresome is the endless outrage over this. People like the cheap printers but don't like the annuity that they have to pay that comes with it. But they forget what the deal was, just like a first grader getting burned on his first scam transaction in the school yard. Grow up people.

    • Re:It's the deal (Score:4, Informative)

      by I4ko ( 695382 ) on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @10:13AM (#59203348)

      Epson big tank printers are actually not bad.

      • Actually the other way around. My last experience was with an Epson tank printer at my daugther's kindergarten - brand new. I installed, filled-up the tanks. The teacher printed about 50 pages and after two weeks she called me it doesn't print anymore. She used for two days, then not for two weeks. The ink has dried on the heads and the printer was useless. Like the one above, every experience I saw with ink printers was a bummer. Basically you pay 20 - 30$ for a cartrige to print once or twice and if you
        • My recent experience was similar. It was just last week I finally recycled the $300+ printer I used a couple times and that Epson didn't want to talk to me about.

          I was a huge Epson evangelist 20 years ago, too. My loyalty was theirs to keep, but they didn't bother.

          I'm never going to buy another inkjet. It is less painful to just go to the copy shop if I need to print. And in the end, cheaper. If I need to print a lot some day, I'll go with a laser printer.

      • We have had two Epson printers in our house. The one from twenty years ago worked great for over a decade, but the later one clogged soon after we got it and it wouldn't clean. Took it back, and the second did the same thing. Gave up and replace it with a Canon. There is a downside to builtin print heads that cost as much to replace as a new printer costs.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by bob4u2c ( 73467 )
        Depends on how much and how often you print.

        I remember users throwing out 9 month old ink jet printers attached to their computer because it wouldn't print. The cartridge was almost full, the device showed plenty of ink, but the nozzles were clogged (cleaning cycles and/or alcohol wipes did nothing to unclog them). So they would go check out how much the color ink cartridge cost, see a new printer was only a few dollars more and buy the whole thing again. Then they would print a few pages and 9 months
        • I have a Canon BJC-8200 inkjet now close to 18 years old. I seldom use it, but have no problems because this Canon model successfully caps the head after printing, keeping the ink from drying out in the head. I use only Canon inks, because (with a different printer) I've had problems with non-OEM inks: faster fading, colors that don't match the OEM ink, and a clogged head. Similarly, I use only the Canon photo paper, because the other photo paper brands I've tried don't properly absorb the ink and it beads
          • by dwywit ( 1109409 )

            That's been my experience with Canon inkjet printers, and Canon inks. I've had three of them over about 15 years.

            Yes, the inks cost a lot more than 3rd-party brands, but the fade rate is years, vs. months for cheaper brands.

            Now, as to long-term support - the only reason I replaced #2 is that Canon didn't want to supply drivers for Windows 7, and it just wouldn't work with the XP drivers.

      • Failing that, the heads built into the printer clog, making the machine useless, and an expensive heap of plastic.

    • by sjames ( 1099 )

      But of course they 'forgot' the deal because not only were they never asked to agree to it, the manufacturers do their best to hide the terms of the deal or even it's existence from the buyer.

      In fact, it's less deal than it is a combination of a (somewhat) sneaky trick and a strong sense of entitlement on the manufacturer's part.

  • I've used HP printers. I've noticed options to send statistics (number of pages printed and ink levels), but never anything that would indicate that HP would know I was trying to renew my passport or that I print my mom's birthday card at home. I allow my printer look for newer firmware versions, but that's it.

    • by HiThere ( 15173 )

      Personally, I don't even let my HP talk to the internet. It keeps telling me that printing will soon be prohibited, but outside of having to push an extra button on the printer it's caused no problems in the last year. I use the driver from Debian.

      N.B.: There may well be newer firmware, but I don't let my printer talk to the internet, so it will never know.

      That said, that "warning message" is both extremely annoying and explicitly threatening. So I follow stories about what other printers are recommende

  • by apetrelli ( 1308945 ) on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @10:11AM (#59203336)

    No more cartridges, just ink. It costs much more, probably the double of HP printers, but at least I can *just print* without feeling bad for the action.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Do the nozzles still get clogged up or does it fix that too?

      Personally I switched to colour laser. They are a bit bulky but you can get the cartridges cheap now, from companies that recycle them mostly by refilling and resetting the counter chip.

  • by sinij ( 911942 ) on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @10:13AM (#59203346)
    When TVs record all your conversations and send them elsewhere and printers save copies of everything you print and send them elsewhere.

    Is there any privacy violation egregious enough to get masses outraged into demanding change?
    • by TWX ( 665546 ) on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @10:19AM (#59203404)

      Is there any privacy violation egregious enough to get masses outraged into demanding change?

      No, because people don't generally directly feel the effects of these privacy violations. Only when people lose their jobs, lose their finances and other resources, and find themselves spurned in their relationships with others and know that it's a result of these privacy violations will they really desire to force change.

  • by thegreatbob ( 693104 ) on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @10:15AM (#59203372) Journal
    Needs a new laser head (Second time it has burned its laser out, visibly scarred). Unfortunate, but once I manage to find one, this 25 year old printer will be back in service.
    • I like reminiscing about when replacing the fuser only took about 30 seconds.

      • Open the back, two screws. Whole module just comes straight out. The connector is integrated, so no wiring to fiddle with either. An overly wordy instructional video on YouTube is a whole 2 minutes long.
      • Even the laser scanning head is straightforward, a few screws to remove the upper shell, and IIRC it's held in place with 4 or 6 screws, and fed with a small IDC cable.
        • Yes, I've replaced those laser units before. Usually what damages them is the machine being jolted as the polygon mirror spins up on its air bearing.

          Another thing I miss about the old printers was metal paper guides. Everything now is cheap ABS plastic that is so easy to break or deform in just a little time. On the other hand, the laserjet 5si weighed about as much as my car, so I really don't miss that.

  • Proprietary software devices shouldn't get Internet access unless it's on purpose. Use a VLAN and a subnet for good measure.

    • by TWX ( 665546 )

      There's the conundrum though, if a vendor actually provides security updates, the device might require Internet access, or in the case of things like Daktronics' current series of RGB marquee displays, they have done-away with using a proprietary application on an end-user PC, switching to a "connect to Daktronics' website, change the display, the display will phone-home and update itself" model. It may not be possible to entirely prevent the device from connecting to the Internet if it is to function opti

    • by amorsen ( 7485 )

      If you VLAN it away naively, Bonjour stops working.

      You can get around that by doing selective bridging onto the printer VLAN, or by doing Bonjour proxy. Alternatively you can run a proper printer daemon on the regular device network that prints to the printer using standard IPP.

      Either way, it is a pain.

  • by TWX ( 665546 ) on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @10:16AM (#59203386)

    One has to ask when the submission makes Garrison Keillor look the soul of brevity.

    • "And that's the news from Lake Privacy-Be-Gone, where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average."

  • HP..need i say more (Score:4, Interesting)

    by drewsup ( 990717 ) on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @10:17AM (#59203394)

    This is the same company that got taken to court for pushed firmware updates that bricked your printer is it had compatible cartridges installed. HP and Lexmark are the worst offenders for expensive cartridge shenanigans.
    Stick with Canon or Brother for low end stuff.

    • by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

      This problem began when they started selling the printers below cost under the idea of profiting from the ink. I wouldn't be surprised if some company started giving away crappy cars if you sign-up for an exclusive maintenance contract.

    • Never buying any Lexmark printer for our organization ever again. We purchased a few hundred (not by me) and several had bad imaging units out of the box. Large white streaks top to bottom of the page when printing.

      Contacted Lexmark support, explained the problem, and was told we needed to send over copies of print diagnostic pages for their "engineers" to look at. Which I did.

      Kept pestering them about getting replacement units because these were still under warranty and never got a response. Sent a fina

    • by Slayer ( 6656 )

      Got burned by Canon as well. Bought an entry level LBP7110CW because it was "supported under linux". Installed the driver, yep, it worked out of the box. A few months later an Ubuntu update broke the driver, and Canon support told me to sod off ("we don't support linux"). Hasn't worked under linux ever since.

      Last Canon printer ever.

  • ... Settings for my Brother printer and deselected:

    ControlCenter4

    Brother Industries, Ltd. (“Brother”) uses Google Analytics, a web analytics service provided by Google, Inc. (“Google”) in the Brother software(s) that is/are specified above (“Software”). Google Analytics collects traffic data using “cookies.” The data collected is used to analyze and better understand how you use the Software. For more information about how Google handles your information, please see
    .

    By using Google Analytics, Brother collects traffic data that are non-personally identifiable information (“Traffic Data”) such as your Brother device model and how you use and navigate through the Software. Brother will use the Traffic Data solely for the improvement of the Software or any other products/services of Brother, and Brother’s marketing/research activities, product planning or any other related activities for the benefit of Brother’s customers.

    If you agree to provide your Traffic Data to Brother and Google through Google Analytics, please tick the check box “Send Information” below. If you choose not to provide your Traffic Data, please do not tick the checkbox. You will still be able to use all the functions of the Software even if you choose not to provide your Traffic Data. If you tick the checkbox below, any other user of the Software that is installed on your device will be deemed to have agreed to provide his/her Traffic Data to Brother and Google.

    • ...but how does Google Analytics get involved with a printer driver?

      • ...but how does Google Analytics get involved with a printer driver?

        By me or you clicking on the check mark that allows this.

        Here's the land mines:

        - Google Analytics collects traffic data
        - The data collected is used to analyze and better understand how you use the Software
        - For more information about how Google handles your information (it's "them" not "us")
        - By using Google Analytics, Brother collects traffic data
        - Brother will use the Traffic Data solely for the improvement of ... (but what about Google Analytics?)
        - Brother’s marketing/research activities (Google Ad

      • ...but how does Google Analytics get involved with a printer driver?

        You didn't think Google came up with the idea of Google Cloud Print out of the goodness of their hearts, did you?

        They want to collect every possible bit of information about every person they can, then use what they learn about you to make money. That is their business model, after all.

  • Go on the HP Web site and download the "Basic drivers" for that model. Go into the Internet Usage and other functions and uncheck all the boxes that would allow the driver to send info to HP.
    This has been going on for years.
  • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
    a different brand of printer?
    One that just prints.
    • Care to tell us which magical device that would be?

      It bet it comes with ink you can refill, too.

      • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
        1. Try an online shop.
        2. One with a search function for "printers" that allows brands to be selected.
        3. Don't select the printer brand that sends data.
  • by hackertourist ( 2202674 ) on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @10:35AM (#59203496)

    Way back when I remember trying to install a printer driver from CD-ROM. The installation process proceeded to dump 300 MB of data on my system (a large amount of data at the time, making the "printer driver" larger than any application install) which consisted of drivers for basically every HP printer ever made, plus a bunch of crapware (big, complicated application for checking the ink level, things like that). And it wanted to update every other week (which was another 100 MB installer).

  • Of course they do. Why else would they want a gateway when setting up networked printing? We just set ours at a fake IP address and be done with it.
  • I haven't done much with iptables to log, block, or otherwise mess with outbound packets but maybe I should start, eh? I could see filling out all the forms and then blocking anything coming from the printer's MAC address from leaving the LAN. Unless they have something hiding in a driver or the printer that prevents it from operating unless it's allowed to phone home with your registration information, etc. -- which, IMHO, would be the Kiss Of Death to any future sales -- all they'd know is that I bought a

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • HP LaserJet 1050a + hplip + USB cable WFM since 2008. Only issue I have has come up since I moved back to the US, where I can't buy model 301 ink cartridges for it in the stores--have to order them online from a European distributor at about twice the cost or just load up on them whenever I go back to visit. Fortunately, one set of 2 (1 colour and 1 black) cartridges will last me 6+ months, so I got a 2-year supply pretty easily last time I was in Stockholm. Really irritating that HP sell a printer and ink

  • "...I wanted to use the extremely convenient feature where the printer scans a document and sends it to you via email, but then I got scared that HP would purloin my email address, associate it with my printing data, and ship this information over to an online ad retargeting platform. I’m not a lawyer and I can’t be bothered to properly parse their privacy policy to understand whether this technically falls under “product usage” or “sharing with third-party services”, or

  • Clearly someone not too technically adept has a personal beef with HP skewed by a distorted anecdotal experience.

    1) I don't buy inkjets for myself, but every HP printer (inkjet, laser or otherwise) has had an option to not install "Instant Ink" or similar unnecessary components. Sometimes you need to check "Advanced Setup" at the beginning but anyone with the slightest IT experience knows to do this already.
    2) You can always download the "basic driver" from HP's site and install that instead.
    3) If you don't

    • by krray ( 605395 )

      Are you my twin? I mean, you nailed it.
      ! inklet, buy a laser, just the driver please, etc.
      Just ... "DITTO". Including the post...

    • 1) I don't buy inkjets for myself, but every HP printer (inkjet, laser or otherwise) has had an option to not install "Instant Ink" or similar unnecessary components. Sometimes you need to check "Advanced Setup" at the beginning but anyone with the slightest IT experience knows to do this already.

      Well that makes it all better. Even though the vast majority of people don't have any "IT experience" at all.

  • Is not to use the installer that comes with it or the download for the OS. Use the Windows server based drivers, which contain the INFs specific for the printer and configure it the hard way.

  • by FilmedInNoir ( 1392323 ) on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @11:55AM (#59204028)
    https://www.ldproducts.com/blo... [ldproducts.com]
    I hope Robert Heaton gets the help he needs. Medication, meditation, electroshock therapy, whatever it takes.
  • Take off and nu... no, just kidding. There ought to be some setting or configuration on the router that prevents the printer from sending anything out of your LAN. That's if you can trust your router. Who can trust anything? Might as well just send nudes to HP. If you're in a situation that requires the printer to be on the Internet, I'd get sophisticated about the firewall. I wouldn't trust the click-box to do what it says if I actually cared. Added bonus? You might find them really being up to no

  • by PPH ( 736903 )

    The offered printer drivers and apps aren't going to work with my system anyway. I just unbox the HP printer, plug it in and it works.

  • Seems like an opportunity for your Pi-Hole to block this sort of thing from leaving your network. Does anyone know if it does, or could?

  • I wont defend hp for shady activity but with most people using a smart phone what does the author expect printers are for real computers only?.

    As to hp ink service that sends data back the cartridges are bigger than the ones you can buy the hp printer i own i recon it saved $170 usd based on the used cartridges printed output compared with buying idiot cartridges for the same page output.

    While an idiot printer is great i think thr reinvention of printing is keeping it relevant

  • by coastwalker ( 307620 ) <acoastwalker AT hotmail DOT com> on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @12:42PM (#59204324) Homepage

    Current best practice business management obliges you to see the customer as an enemy to be defeated and subjected to lifelong extortion. The Mafia had it right all along with their protection rackets. You sell the customer some trifling piece of hardware and get them on to a subscription of some sort. Eventually you should be able to up-sell them to the point where their employer pays their income directly into your affiliate bank and you actually own them. Remember "The customer is the enemy and must be destroyed completely".

  • HP regularly sends out automatic printer firmware and driver updates. This will require all those privacy-violating checkboxes you unchecked, to again be unchecked and re-submitted before the printer will work again. Without you there to set it up for them again, your in-laws will cluelessly click on OK without reading anything or changing any of the default settings, thereby tacitly agreeing to HP's terms.
  • ...anymore

    Many years ago, my wife bought an HP inkjet printer.
    Every time you printed a document, it left a process running.
    She had to reboot periodically to clear them off the machine.

    I installed software updates as they came in from HP,
    and in all the years that we owned the printer,
    they never fixed their driver.

  • Some people just need to get over themselves.
  • I've been on the technical side of IT for over 30 years and have dealt with all manner of printers. Here's the sad truth - HP makes good printers from a hardware perspective, but their drivers are bloated to the point where I stopped buying or recommending their printers.

    I recall having to run an HP-supplied cleanup utility if I wanted to completely uninstall their drivers, and the utility had 4 levels of uninstall. Which basically amounted to "Would you like to (i) Uninstall, (ii) Really Uninstall, (iii) R

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