More Airlines Ban MacBook Pros In Checked Luggage (bloomberg.com) 98
Qantas airlines is now restricting MacBook Pro laptops from checked-in luggage on concern that batteries could catch fire. All 15-inch versions of Apple's MacBook Pro must be carried in the cabin and switched off, Qantas said in a statement Wednesday. The rule went into effect Tuesday morning. "Rival Virgin Australia went further on Aug. 26, banning all Apple laptops from checked-in luggage," adds Bloomberg. From the report: Australia's two biggest airlines join a growing list of carriers and jurisdictions across the world cracking down on the portable computers out of concern some could self-combust. The models in question are some 15-inch MacBook Pros sold from September 2015 to February 2017. Apple issued the recall in June, saying "in a limited number of older generation 15-inch MacBook Pro units, the battery may overheat and pose a fire safety risk." Singapore Airlines Ltd. and Thai Airways International PCL have already stopped passengers from taking any of the affected models on their aircraft.
But surely St Jobs would save the plane? (Score:5, Funny)
Surely he'd appear hovering over one wing in a glowing turtleneck and tilt the crashing plane back the right way (because the air was holding it wrong).
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Mildly amusing so I modded funny. However, Jobs ain't coming back in any form. He was an avowed atheist, I don't expect he is NOW, but I'm pretty sure you don't come back from where he went to.
Careful, if you aren't very nice to people Santa won't bring you any presents.
Re:But surely St Jobs would save the plane? (Score:5, Insightful)
If I were God I would reward atheists for not making up some bullshit to follow when I clearly didn't offer any hints to my existence. Sometimes the wrong answer is the best answer if you can demonstrate your methodology instead of taking a wild guess.
Re: But surely St Jobs would save the plane? (Score:2)
That depends on which god you're talking about. For example, Yaweh clearly requires that he's the top priority in everybody's lives. He's also very inconsistent about whether you'd die if you saw him, and as of recently, may or may not have changed his mind about homosexuality, depending who you ask.
Compare that to Allah, who says that anybody who doesn't believe in him, or that Mohammed is his prophet, will be burned by an evil djin. In his book this deer with a woman's head (somebody must have fucked a de
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" Yaweh clearly requires "
depending on which letters they used to compile which bible.
Yahweh and Allah are the same god.
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Go tell some Deash or Taliban schitzo that they're worshipping the god of the jews and see what happens to you.
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Bits of the OT is full of well documented Babylonian creation myth, so even Yahweh/Jehova is a bit of an amalgam. If there were trademark law for religions someone would have lost the lawsuit.
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Yaweh clearly requires that he's the top priority in everybody's lives.
Is there any evidence of this, or is this hearsay? Could be fake news even, a rumor spread intentionally to deceive us.
Compare that to Allah
Technically the same dude. The Christians alone argue for there to be at least three aspects of divinity, why not multiple personalities as well?
or that Mohammed is his prophet
Allah never told anyone except Mohammed this. I guess it boils down to if we believe Mohammed or not. Unless of course there is some physical evidence to back that up. I'd be satisfied with a PGP signature on some stone tablets.
And then there's Zeus who doesn't care if you believe in him, but he might randomly hit you with lightning bolts.
Zeus is way less stu
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I'd be satisfied with a PGP signature on some stone tablets
But then we'd have wars over which public key is the true public key of God.
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"I guess it boils down to if we believe Mohammed or not"
Who wouldn't believe some guy hearing voices in his head and who married a 9 year old.
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As science is starting to show that things in the Bible really did happen, wouldn't it be something if it's all true and the atheist are the stupid ones?
No penalty for believing and living your life in an ethical manner.
The part about Hell probably is BS by the way. There is no hell in the Jewish religion. I think some others think that as well.
What I can tell you is I've know some very strong atheists that didn't believe until they had a near death experience. Then every one of them believes.
Oh wow, oh wow
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He's dead, so he doesn't realize anything.
OH, I see, you still believe in child fantasy and ancient myths with no basis in reality.
Great. Just what we need less of.
Pff, hipsters (Score:5, Funny)
The 15" MacBook Pro is just an overpriced Samsung 7. Sensible arsonists buy the latter.
Please, ban them all; just provide an outlet... (Score:1)
Perhaps if the batteries were not permitted in the cabin, and required to be stowed away safely, manufacturers would once again sell devices with removable batteries. For good measure, extend the ban to phones and wireless headsets; maybe we can also get headphone jacks back. (This may be taken as a joke, but if someone steps on a dropped phone or earbud, that could potentially start a fire.) Things which are flammable and known to spontaneously combust, really should not be permitted in such an environment
Re: Please, ban them all; just provide an outlet.. (Score:2)
Where are you proposing people put their batteries then? Itâ(TM)s either in the cabin or in checked luggage. In checked luggage theyâ(TM)re already banned, so are you proposing not being able to travel with batteries, and therefore useful electronics at all?
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The underlying point, as I understood it, was that manufacturers would have to make devices with removable batteries if they wanted people to be able to fly with them.
Which in theory, might a good idea... but if the ban on installed batteries were truly universal, it's gong to face some pretty major hiccups when dealing with people with certain medical conditions or disabilities.
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The underlying point, as I understood it, was that manufacturers would have to make devices with removable batteries if they wanted people to be able to fly with them.
And if they aren't allowed in the cabin, and aren't allowed in checked luggage, where are you proposing people "fly with them"?
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One would think that the fact that he even mentioned "removable batteries" in the first place would be a pretty big clue that the batteries would only being banned if they are in a device.
The batteries themeselves would still be allowed on the plane, just not installed. Given concerns that one might have with people simply installing batteries once they are through the checkpoint, the obvious thing to do there would be to not permit batteries in the cabin at all.
But there'd be no problem with batterie
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Perhaps if the batteries were not permitted in the cabin, and required to be stowed away safely, manufacturers would once again sell devices with removable batteries. For good measure, extend the ban to phones and wireless headsets; maybe we can also get headphone jacks back. (This may be taken as a joke, but if someone steps on a dropped phone or earbud, that could potentially start a fire.) Things which are flammable and known to spontaneously combust, really should not be permitted in such an environment.
Since you appear to be aware of the concept of spontaneous combustion, please feel free to elaborate as to where hundreds of removable batteries are to be "stowed away safely", as they sit 20 feet below your passenger seat in a metal tube flying at 35,000 feet.
It's one thing to speak quickly without thinking, but it takes real effort to do that in writing.
Re:Please, ban them all; just provide an outlet... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Please, ban them all; just provide an outlet... (Score:4, Informative)
The infamous Boeing 787 batteries ended up in a shielded box at the tail with a hole for the molten slag to pour out of, which is about as close to that as you're likely to get.
https://www.netairspace.cc/pic... [netairspace.cc]
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How about, you know, anywhere that isn't *in* a device?
Or is there evidence that the batteries can still spontaneously catch fire even when they are not installed in anything?
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How about, you know, anywhere that isn't *in* a device?
Tell me how you're realistically going to enforce that rule as airlines literally count the minutes in between getting planes on the ground and getting them in the air again as quickly as possible. You gonna X-ray scan every passenger again at the gate to catch all the smartphone junkies who put their batteries back *in* their devices after going through security the first time? Institute a stop and frisk policy as they board? I'm sure confiscating "contraband" will go over well too. You think the cryin
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By not allowing the batteries in the cabin in the first place.
But since they are removable, they can be stored in checked luggage.
And by not being installed in anything, they cannot spontaneously combust on account of faulty electronics.
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They used terms like:
"addiction","junkies", "spoiled millennial ", "Precious ".
They aren't a deep thinker.
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"addiction","junkies", "spoiled millennial ", "Precious " lol, you're an idiot.
And you could STILL PLUG IN THE DEVICE.
Since TSA currently looks at your electronics, that would be where you check carry on electronics and batteries and have the batteries .
Some see you using your device when it isn't plugged in? That's a clue. Plus,. you are presenting a Nirvana fallacy. Which based on your post doesn't surprise me, sine you know, you're dim.
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You appear determined to erect straw men without actually thinking, but airlines are already successfully (or not) enforcing many other obnoxious policies, often more for theatrics. It doesn't have to be perfect to be an improvement, and even if removable batteries were the only positive result, it would be worth the cost. Nowhere was it suggested that laptops/phones can't be used, only that they would need to be externally powered, or at least powered by something that isn't an imminent fire hazard.
HP recalled six million LS-15 power cords due to fire and burn hazards. Those were powering external laptop power supplies, so stop assuming that an external power source would or could never be an imminent fire hazard. Even the infamous Samsung Galaxy 7 fire hazard only affected 1 million devices under recall.
And as much as I despise it, non-removable battery designs came about for a reason, so I'd hold judgement on whether or not it would ultimately be a "positive" result, or worth the cost (I can almos
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Or is there evidence that the batteries can still spontaneously catch fire even when they are not installed in anything?
Absolutely they can, if overheated or crushed, or any of a number of things happen. While they should be stable in the conditions on an airplane, it's the mfg flaws that are the concern. If the electrodes come in contact with each other (even if just from thermal expansion related to heat), it's a giant fireball.
I would think they're safer in a cabin than in the less controlled environme
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Don't forget how baggage handlers throw bags around when loading the airplane. When a battery is physically damaged, it may take a while for it to begin overheating and start a fire. By that time the plane could be airborne.
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In a sealed container. Why does that need to be spelled out to you? Are you really that dim?
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In a sealed container. Why does that need to be spelled out to you? Are you really that dim?
Let the average baggage handler get a hold of your "sealed" battery, tossed into a large box with a few hundred others per flight, exposed battery terminals and all. Why does the instability of batteries and the risk of rough handling need to be spelled out to you? Are you really that ignorant?
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Since you appear to be aware of the concept of spontaneous combustion, please feel free to elaborate as to where hundreds of removable batteries are to be "stowed away safely", as they sit 20 feet below your passenger seat in a metal tube flying at 35,000 feet.
It's one thing to speak quickly without thinking, but it takes real effort to do that in writing.
Speaking of writing without thinking, how much volume do you imagine that hundreds of batteries will take? Stick them in few partitioned/sealed cases with inert atmosphere and appropriate sensors/etc. (All together, about 1 cubic meter to safely isolate them.) It would add a bit of trouble to the baggage check process, but I expect that applies to any hazardous materials. Pretending Li-Ion batteries are not hazardous is daft, especially if someone had intent to do harm.
There are over a billion Li-Ion batteries charged up at any given time on this planet. And thousand of plans in the air at any given moment. Tell me again how many have been downed by this "hazardous" risk? Tell me how many who intend to do harm have been successful in using Li-Ion as a terrorist tool?
And a "few" partitioned/sealed cases translates into every single aircraft being retrofitted by an FAA/TSA mandate, which means that "few" is tens of thousands. Not to mention the logistical challenge with
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I think you are missing the point that airlines would prefer to be the exclusive source of your entertainment, and would prefer to charge you for whatever entertainment you are enjoying. Preferably a tiered model where the more bored you are, the more they can rob you blind.
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Any evidence to support this? Or is this just general 'if I bash a business I'll get some mod points'? Recently I have been mostly flying JetBlue, and you get free movies, free TV, free SiriusXM, and free WiFi.
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Would they still do that if they didn't allow devices?
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TIL: Someone paying for something is the same as them being robbed.
Appsung, Sampple (Score:4)
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Samsung makes both luxury and good value products.
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Yes, and whether you buy a phone, tablet, washing machine, or robot vacuum marketed through infomercials*, they will all burst into flames at the slightest provocation.
* I couldn't quite believe my eyes when I saw it. I don't normally watch TV as such but I was in a hotel at the time. You know the writing is on the wall when they have to stoop to infomercials.
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the infomercial demographic is the same one who would benefit from robotic vacuums. It's a smart marketing move.
"burst into flames at the slightest provocation."
well, that's not true. It's bad there have been a little over 100 fires, but that have been specific types of devices, and out of millions of them. So clearly not at the slightest provocation.
It's bad, but it's not the nightmare scenario you are trying to make it out to be.
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I admit, it's hyperbole. But washing machines that can burst into flames are hilarious.
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Samsung makes no reliably good products any more. They went over the Sony arc years ago. Plenty of good manufacturers out there, but Samsung is the new Sony.
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Some of their phones are decent. Headphone socket, SD card slot, wireless charging etc. Their version of Android used to be quite bad but over the last few years it's become decent. They don't even bundle much of their own crapware any more.
Re:Appsung, Sampple (Score:4)
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" I personally don't care about any connection between scripting and the UI."
but clearly the poster does and that's his complaint.
"I guess you don't know how to use it then"
that from a person who needs a corporation to install his tool. lol.
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Hmm, I've found it very useful as a developer. Sure, there are some obscure commands to deal with obscure OSX things, but I can live without knowing all of that. How is bash in Linux better at "standard unix concepts" than bash in OSX? Maybe OSX doesn't have /proc but that's hardly standard. Sure, I can't respond to Outlook emails by using the shell, but I can't do that in Linux either. Granted, command line support has been diminishing over time with more focus being given to Xcode asn iOS life suppor
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In the shell, the applicaiton appears like a directory. No special tools needed. You can move it as a single unit by treating it as a directory, and you can manipulate the internals by looking at the files.
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Yes, Finder has a problem with this. The shell however does not.
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LOL. What kind of hacker needs a corporation to spoon feed them their tools?
The hacker bar just keeps dropping.
Much less have enough trust in a corporation to not have tampered with them.
Bloomberg is shoveling shit again... (Score:2)
I doubt Quantas is "Banning _ALL_ 15" MBP's" any more than they banned ALL Samsung phones over the Note bonfire. Quantas may have taken steps against those models which may be affected but not on unaffected older and newer models.
Hey Bloomberg! How about some PROOF of your unsupported allegations that China was hacking the world with "rice sized" composents on motherboards? It's been over a year. SURELY you've been able to find proof by now, no? Because repeatedly shoveling untruths makes everyone distrust
Re: Bloomberg is shoveling shit again... (Score:2)
Virgin is banning all MacBooks. All sizes.
Re: Bloomberg is shoveling shit again... (Score:1)
And a hearty thanks for contributing to the discussion goes out to the Apple PR rep.
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I doubt Quantas is "Banning _ALL_ 15" MBP's" any more than they banned ALL Samsung phones over the Note bonfire.
You doubt Qantas is banning all specific model macbooks over the fact they banned all generic manufacturer devices? Don't be stupid.
Re:Bloomberg is shoveling shit again... (Score:4, Insightful)
Qantas isn't going to spend money training staff to recognise the affected models, or waste time arguing with passengers about whether their particular machine is affected or not. It's far simpler to just ban all 15" MacBook pros.
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And this trend is worrisome, as I have work trip schduled in two weeks and I have a 15" Macbook Pro from 2015 (that is not affected by this issue). If my airline or airports decide to ban all 15" Macbooks from 2015 then I'm in trouble. I would at least need to know well enough in advance that I can arrange to get a loaner laptop or go through the hassle of migrating to a new model. (some people with an affected model are waiting until the newer Macbook with the better keyboard arrives rather than the cur
Why would you check a laptop? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would you check a laptop anyway under any sort of normal circumstances? Any expensive electronic gear like that is coming with me in the cabin where it is considered just fine anyway. Checking a laptop is just begging for theft or damage. I understand there are corner case reasons to check something but who is really doing this?
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Probably too much to carry what with their iphone, 12.9 inch iPad , apple headphone dongles and a massive superiority complex. You can't fit all that in overhead luggage.
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Use a battery pack? (Score:2)
I actually carry my Macbook Pro with me so I can use it's battery to charge my iphone, Pixel 3XL and 12.9 ipad Pro. And I wish I was joking
Why not just carry a portable battery pack if you don't plan to actually use the Macbook Pro in flight? They're really inexpensive and practical. I've been doing that for years and it works great for long flights. With my phone I don't even need to bring cords because it charges wirelessly which is darn convenient.
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Why would you check a laptop anyway under any sort of normal circumstances? Any expensive electronic gear like that is coming with me in the cabin where it is considered just fine anyway. Checking a laptop is just begging for theft or damage. I understand there are corner case reasons to check something but who is really doing this?
If you need to cary 3 or more laptops around for work along with other specialized/delicate electronics that you'd rather not check, and are flying international with tight connections and don't want to be running through the airport and passport control/etc carrying all of that.
I used to work for for a cruise line where I was flying around all of the time with a personal macbook pro, a company PC laptop for email/reports/programming audio DSP speaker processor, and a company macbook pro for audio editing,
Corner cases (Score:2)
If you need to cary 3 or more laptops around for work along with other specialized/delicate electronics that you'd rather not check, and are flying international with tight connections and don't want to be running through the airport and passport control/etc carrying all of that.
Refer to my comment about corner cases. The number of people carrying 3+ laptops around with them through airports with no other good options is a rounding error. It just doesn't happen much. You appear to be the exception that proves the rule. It would take some pretty exceptional circumstances for me to trust my laptop to checked luggage.
For 4-5 years I flew 85,000+ miles a year, often with expensive tools and equipment in my checked luggage. Never once have I had anything stolen.
Consider yourself lucky. I have flown far less than that most years and have had things stolen from me as well as lost luggage that I never got back or got back in b
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" exception that proves the rule."
uhhhg. What rule are you talking about? is there a 1 device limit rule that this prove be stating an exception?
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For my day job, I used to fly with a Pelican case with 6 (Lenovo) laptops in it as training machines. That case went into the hold until that wasn't permitted any more.
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I check them all the time. I have enough shit with me in the cabin without carrying around another device around. When I can get away with it what comes with me on my carry-on is a tablet, headphones, my passport, my phone, and a bottle of water.
Use the overhead bins (Score:2)
I check them all the time. I have enough shit with me in the cabin without carrying around another device around.
What are you talking about? You just put the laptop and other stuff in the overhead bin unless you plan to use it. You don't have to have it in your lap. I fail to see the problem here. I usually travel with a single 55L backpack that carries everything I need for most trips and don't check any bags. Fits easily into overhead bins and under seats and (usually) holds a week's worth of stuff easily including all the electronics I normally travel. Plus I don't have to worry about the airline losing my st
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In Australia, you're limited to 7kg of carry on. You can take a separate 'laptop bag', but they regularly will weigh your main carry on at check-in or at the gate, and if you're taking the piss with your laptop bag they'll weigh that too.
I'd never check my laptop but I've certainly struggled with managing my carry on weight because of it. I imagine people with heavy chunky laptops (mine is a 13" and very light) would struggle if they only want to deal with one bag.
Dimensions vs weight (Score:2)
In Australia, you're limited to 7kg of carry on.
That's kind of dumb if everything you are bringing with you fits in a modestly sized backpack with no checked luggage. Here in the US they often have dimensional restrictions for bags (though this is inconsistently enforced) but no meaningful weight restrictions on carry on. If you are going to weigh the bags you should weigh the passengers too. (yes I know why they don't) The cost to the airline is in how much total weight a passenger brings with them including themselves + their luggage so weighing th
I thought all batteries were banned in checked (Score:2)
I thought all batteries were banned in checked luggage and should be in carryon?
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What it should be is all Lithium-Cobalt based chemistries. They're the only group of readily available battery chemistries that catches fire.
Same type as what the 787 Dreamliner uses for its inboard battery. Boeing are idiots these days.
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Except it's not about the battery. The battery catching fire is the result of the device.
So if the device is properly designed, it's a non issue.
The only idiot here is people talking about something they know nothing about .
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That's what TFS said. They all go in the cabin, where they can be spotted and dealt with if they begin to smoke.
Singapore Airlines and Thai Airways are banning them from aircraft altogether.
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Depends on the airline. Cathay allows up to 15 batteries in a checked bag, as long as they're smaller than 80WHr and installed in a (powered off) device.
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No. Only free batteries are banned in checked luggage. Those inserted in devices are typically fine. Some carriers will differ.
QANTAS does not allow free batteries in checked baggage, but will allow up to 100Wh batteries condition free if inside a device, and up to 160Wh batteries if inside a device and the device has a physical on/off switch that is protected against accidental activation. A Mac book pro is half of that and passengers may check up to 15 of these devices in baggage at once.
If that sounds lu
Apple (Score:3)
but but then what will the TSA goons steal? (Score:1)
Checked Luggage of laptop = Licence to steal with (Score:2)
Checked Luggage of laptop = Licence to steal with the airlanes saying we are not at fault.
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Install a tracer.
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So what you're saying is you're getting a new laptop on travel insurance?
Keep your repair receipt (Score:2)
I carry the repair receipt for my MacBook Pro's battery replacement when I travel for this reason. Haven't had an occasion to use it yet, thankfully.
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The advice above is valid.
From today's news: Both Singapore Airlines and Thai Airways also recently instituted policies around the MacBook Pros. In a statement on its website over the weekend, Singapore Airlines said that passengers are prohibited from bringing affected models on its aircraft either in their carry-ons or in their checked luggage "until the battery has been verified as safe or replaced by the manufacturer."
So Singapore Airlines is a go with a repair receipt.
This is going to be a mess... (Score:2)
How on earth are the airlines supposed to know which laptops are affected? It’s not all Apple laptops, all MacBooks, etc., just a specific range of models and dates, and only if the owner hasn’t had the battery replaced. I can’t imagine how they can know that.
Did I miss something? (Score:2)
I've had airline telling me no LI-Ion battering in checked luggage for a number of years now.
This week I see several articles about the MacBook specifically not being allowed.