Tesla Says Solar Roof Is On Its Third Iteration, Currently Installing In 8 States (techcrunch.com) 133
An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: Tesla is currently installing its solar roof product in eight states, according to Elon Musk, speaking at the Tesla Annual Shareholder Meeting on Tuesday. The solar roof-tile project has had a relatively long genesis since being unveiled three years ago, in 2016. In addition to having installations run in eight states, Musk said the solar roof product is currently on version three, and that this version is very exciting to him because it offers a chance of being at cost parity with an equivalent entry-level cheap traditional tile, when you include the cost of utilities you'd be saving by generating your own power instead. Regarding timelines for wider rollout of the solar roof products at the costs he anticipates, his own words probably say it best: "I'm sometimes a little optimistic about time frames -- it's time you knew," he joked at the meeting.
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It is funny that you guys always compare Tesla to Amazon. Is every company that loses massive amount of money the next Amazon???
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One bad quarter (immediately after a tax credit cliff in their largest market, in the seasonal low quarter, during an international rollout with botched delivery timing) and Tesla is a company that "loses massive amount of money". Never mind that their negative FCF that quarter was the same as their positive cash flow in the each of the two previous quarters, and the profits/losses over that period roughly cancel themselves out.
Meanwhile, Tesla keeps reinvesting and keeps up its exponential growth (signifi
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Sure. Except in reality, that's a totally correct statement.
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Solar City and the roof continue to be a big loser
Other reports say that they've been selling the cells to be used in regular solar panels manufactured in the Philippines, because of demand.
That doesn't imply it is a big loser, it implies they're temporarily making money off their factories while still perfecting the product they want to sell more of later when it is perfect.
Re:How many per state (Score:5, Insightful)
That would make sense to me.
Trial a few locations to test different environmental factors, while iterating tile design and implementation methods. Soon you'll have accumulated enough improvements and have a cross section of different environmental factors addressed. Then you take the improved product and start rolling it out to a larger audience.
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So basically what every other tech company does: get suckers, errr, I mean customers, to pay full or inflated price to be beta testers on an immature product.
Re:How many per state (Score:5, Insightful)
Early adopters drive innovation. They pay through the nose, act as beta testers, and then, a few years later, people with more sense and less money reap the benefits.
Jesus, that's how the personal computer evolved. The first "home computers" had LED read outs and switches to program them. They cost a fortune, had damned little utility, but from them sprang companies building peripherals and from that ecosystem in the early and mid 70s came Apples, Commodores, TRS-80s, and so forth.
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Early adopters drive innovation. They pay through the nose, act as beta testers, and then, a few years later, people with more sense and less money reap the benefits.
Jesus, that's how the personal computer evolved. The first "home computers" had LED read outs and switches to program them. They cost a fortune, had damned little utility, but from them sprang companies building peripherals and from that ecosystem in the early and mid 70s came Apples, Commodores, TRS-80s, and so forth.
That's the only way that technology can be refined. The movers shakers and producers know this. It is the return on the investment later when the working class can afford it that really makes their funding worth it in the end.
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Re: How many per state (Score:1)
Exactly how are the wires from each tile being routed into the attic? Drilling a bunch of small holes for each tile in the baseboard will definitely lead to water ingress (leakage). Cutting out soggy ceiling sheetrock in a room is messy and expensive in addition to the plaster pattern never matching unless all sections redone.
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Simple you overlap the solar tiles just like you do regular tiles or shingles. Any holes are under the overlap of the row above. Or you put wire connectors along the back of each tile, the tiles connect together and on the edges you run a collector row that runs from the roof peak down to the edge with a sealed collector to feed the power into the home electric system.
This is not a
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I recall an article a long while back when it was first discussed. The topic was that installing these tiles, all wired together created an electrical net over your house and had the potential to cause quite a bit of wireless interference and cell phone blockage. How realistic those concerns are now, and after going through 3 versions of the tiles, I have no idea.
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all wired together created an electrical net over your house and had the potential to cause quite a bit of wireless interference and cell phone blockage.
And how exactly should that be possible if the solar panels create direct current (DC) and WiFi and cellular phones operate in GHz "AC" radio spectrum? Hu?
Don't you learn anything in school anymore?
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What part of " How realistic those concerns are now, and after going through 3 versions of the tiles, I have no idea." was unclear?
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They learned to use the contraction didnâ(TM)t, where appropriate. Clear you didnâ(TM)t learn this in school.
Wow, they never taught that word at my public school.
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A typical American-style roof lasts about 20 years. Tile roofs last about 50 years.
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For five weeks after placing my $1,000 deposit for a Solar Shingle roof, all I got from Tesla was an e-mail receipt. I did not get the promised phone call from an installation representative. So I called a supervisor in Las Vegas who, when I could get him to stop hyping the product, told me one of the eight locations was Morristown PA. Why there? Because Tesla has a warehouse there. That's the only criteria. He also told me they could not start installations in any community without established system inter
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If the library of Alexandria didn't burn down, we would have full solar power back in the 1500's, well in theory.
The burning of the Library of Alexandria is said to have set mankind back a thousand years. However I am not so convinced from that assessment. While thousand years of knowledge may have been lost. Society goes in spurts of changes, then it stops and allows these changes to lock in and become common practice.
The Amish are known as a religion that prefers a life style without modern conveniences,
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The Amish are known as a religion that prefers a life style without modern conveniences, however they are not living like Cavemen, they are basing their society from the lock in period of per-industrialism. However they are using technologies, such as steel, saws, plows, wheels and axles...
There are many different varieties of Amish and many doesn't oppose technology for the sake of it. They oppose technology that distracts from family values.
You can oppose TV's since they makes families talk less with each other while the village gets a projector to have movie nights for the community.
They aren't like Jehovas that will refuse a blood transfusion. Amish can very well have a community car or a phone to call modern emergency services in case of an accident.
Another common theme among Amish is to
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I figured I could post about the Amish without offending too many Slashdot, as a general example. Yes each Amish community will have different degrees and different sets of rules which they practice their faith. However for their view of technology opposing family values, they point to technologies that were created during the industrial revolution.
One could argue that the technology they use, could distract family values, but the values they have set, was locked in with centuries of using that technology
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There are many different varieties of Amish and many doesn't oppose technology for the sake of it. They oppose technology that distracts from family values.... Amish can very well have a community car or a phone to call modern emergency services in case of an accident.
Most Amish are permitted to have telephones, but they have to keep it in the barn. You can use it for emergencies, you can even prearrange a social phone call. But you can't have a ringer that will get your attention unless it only for big emergencies. You can't have a telephone in a modern configuration that allows it to interrupt your activities. If you didn't make an appointment to talk at a certain time, get on a horse and ride over to look for them, put some work into it. :)
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Solid, liquid, gas, plasma, pre-manufacturing, early development, concept stage, pure fiction.
Re:which states? (Score:4, Funny)
Vatican City, Tuvalu, Nauru, Paau, San Marino, Monaco, Liechtenstein and the Marshall Islands
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Could you elaborate on what data you were trying to find but couldn't, and what you're considering the fine print? It all looks pretty clear to me [tesla.com].
Have a big truck to ride but they aren't in it (Score:4, Insightful)
This announcement also announces a deal they have with Home Depot. Just one line but significant.
Home depot is selling the older product line but not the solar roof. That means it either isn't ready or Home Depot doesn't see any way they can sell it. When Home Depot starts showing it in their entryways that is when you will know that this project turned out to be a winner.
As for the delay -- Musk is blaming that on all the work they had to do to get the S3 production line up and running. Actually I believe that. A year or so back he was actually sleeping at the plant to get more time to work on the problems they had.
I wouldn't write off the Solar Roof just yet but they ain't out of the corral yet.
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So without a way to store your solar power your solar roof is pretty much useless.
That depends on how much power you use, and when. Or how big your solar panel is.
a) you could feed into the grid when not consuming it yourself
b) you could just have a small installation, covering the AC costs during daytime, plus a little bit extra for a TV and a fridge
90% of all German household installations have no battery, but that is because they are supposed to feed into the grid.
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No, that isn't the news. SolarCity was going to give Home Depot a great deal, and when Tesla bought them they just wanted to transition to a normal deal at the end, not keep Home Depot in any sort of exclusive position. The interest from Home Depot was based on being some sort of premium distributor. If it is just a regular product, it doesn't warrant the sort of special branded display they were doing.
It is precisely because it was not yet a winner that SolarCity was giving Home Depot a deal that might hav
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Huh? In a rationally run company with competent management - the only overlap between the Model 3 and solar roof product lines would be at the very top, in the C-suite. If the problems with the Model 3 caused disruption to the solar roof... Something is very,
Which states?! (Score:2)
Honestly, what a worthless article. If they are going to tell us that they are installing in eight different states then shouldn't they at least tell people which states they are?!
bah, very expensive (Score:1)
These things are insanely expensive. Just insanely so.
Now his 'rev 3' is apparently much cheaper. But not the language, they only are 'on par' with tiles when all the energy you save is taken into account.
So first? You'd only want to install these, if your existing tiles NEED to be replaced, or you're building new. Because otherwise, you're not saving a penny by installing these, you're just paying for a whole new roof out of pocket, for zero cause.
Second is, his numbers are based upon living in the sou
Re:bah, very expensive (Score:4, Insightful)
What a shame if they could only serve half of the ~600k new homes per year in the US alone (vastly more globally) and the roof replacements for a similar number of older homes ;) How would they ever get by.... ;)
(Tesla also sells conventional panels for people who don't need a new roof)
Hoping this iteration is pretty solid... (Score:4, Insightful)
I have need for a new roof before too long, and would love to use the solar shingles from here - they make way more sense to me than panels bolted on the roof, so I'm kind of holding out for them.
I looked at it before and the installation is pretty expensive, maybe gen 3 has got it cheap enough to consider as a more realistic roof for most people.
Some extra cost is warranted though when you consider how useful even marginal grid independence is, if the power went out it would be really nice to have a system like this keeping the house going. Also the fact that you generally use a PowerrWall battery with it means is has a well considered batter system and is not just solar panels providing power at the moment.
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Yeah, basically you have a home backup and a UPS included. ;)
(I wish they'd give switchover times in milliseconds for the Powerwall - but I've talked to some people who have it and they've not had problems with their computers during switchover, so it must be pretty fast)
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Yeah, basically you have a home backup and a UPS included. ;) :P
And hopefully you have enough single player games installed when the power around you and the internet goes dow
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I have Baldurs Gate on my laptop. With about 8h battery life I could play quite long. :P
But I have to admit, I don't grasp how the game works. I'm still in room 3 or 4
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Just go with standard panels like everyone in Australia does. There you can get 6.6kW of panels with a 5kW grid-tie inverter for USD2100 installed.
PV panels are so cheap now that everyone over dimensions them so they can drive the inverter at its maximum output under sub-optimal irradiance in order to maximise feed-in tariff revenue. (Single phase connections are limited to 5kW export.)
Solar Roof has some other benefits (Score:3)
I know normal panels are a lot cheaper, but the Tesla system includes the power wall battery in the price in addition to the tie-in, and on top of that they act as for-real roof tiles that will last a very long time and are stronger than standard tiles.. also probably more insulating.
I also am a bit dubious about putting a bunch of larger holes in the roof to hold the panels in place, seems like after ten years you'd have a higher risk of leaks from that even if they sealed them pretty well. I don't have l
Leaks are rare (Score:4, Insightful)
Just like anything else mounted on your roof (TV antenna, lightning rod, satellite dish), if done properly leaks are extremely rare [greentumble.com] and will show up right away.
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Do your research (Score:1)
I'd look at other people who've tried to get a Tesla roof before you give them money. Lots of stories of Tesla taking your deposit then nothing ever happens. Also, this is probably vaporware
None of Teslas products are competitivly priced (Score:3)
Way cheaper just to install normal solar panels on top of your roof even after factoring in the cost of tearing off old one and installing a completely new roof.
Much of what Tesla is peddling power walls, cars..etc is not only way over priced for the same capacity it's significantly more dangerous than other battery systems (e.g. iron phosphate) where weight and size constraints become mostly irrelevant.
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Way cheaper just to install normal solar panels on top of your roof even after factoring in the cost of tearing off old one and installing a completely new roof.
Assuming you want a roof covered with ugly solar panels. Many are willing to pay more to have a pretty house.
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Assuming you want a roof covered with ugly solar panels. Many are willing to pay more to have a pretty house.
I don't care. I think solar panels look cool on roofs.
Worthless Article (Score:2)
The only new information provided in the article is that Elon says the solar roof tiles are now being installed in 8 states.
Which states? How many homes? Can ANYONE get them now? How much does it cost in either of those states. No answers because the ONLY reason the article was written is because Elon said, "being installed in 8 states."
Some states require new houses have solar (Score:3)
Tesla would be wise to roll this out in states where all new construction houses and residential apartment buildings have solar and HVAC systems, such as California.
Go where the regulatory infrastructure works for you, not against you.
Durability & Cost (Score:3)
Bit of bad news there (Score:2)
A standard domestic solar installation, even with a battery, will not work when the grid goes down. I've just found out the reason is that the power company wants all generation off if linesmen are working on a fault.
You can buy the correct electronics, it'll have a thing called a load transfer switch. I have one (for other reasons), it is basically a huge relay that physically terminates the connection between house and grid.
looking forward to putting this on our roof (Score:3)
As it is, we have already replaced our hail-resistant shingle roof 2x in 10 years. Come the next time (assuming we are still here), we will switch to Tesla roof. It really makes good sense.
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How are the tiles tied together (Score:3)
I checked the Tesla site, but there isn't any info on how the tiles are actually connected. For instance whats the voltage of an individual tile, how many can you link in series to get X voltage? Then how many of those in parallel ? And connectors...pretty weatherproof I assume. Curious about how one would go about fixing a single cell if it were bad.
Hurry up dude! (Score:2)
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So called ideologic communism or in actual reality just tyrannical systems calling themselves communism?
Just curious.
Personally I don't think the ideology of communism has actually functioned in the world because if fails to take into consideration the fact that people are involved in all aspects of life. However, to say that what you refer to as communism.... aka authoritarianism in its many forms is equivalent to the ideological variant of communism seems to be somewhat lacking.
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Problem with capitalism. It works too well.
Problem with communism. Everything.
Good summation.
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and help streamline conversion to clean energy.
Greed and capitalist slavery will evolve into even more revolting forms of greed and ugliness.
Actually, communism actively prevents the conversion to clean energy. In my area the communist Peoples' Neighborhood Committee (AKA the HOA) has strict appearance guidelines that prevent supposedly private homeowners from using solar tiles.
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HOAs are the purest form of democracy you'll ever experience. They're pretty simple. You don't like how yours is run? Get off your fat, lazy ass and go to the meetings, and get yourself elected to the board. If your HOA is evil, it's only because YOU ALLOW IT TO BE. You're the problem, not your HOA.
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and help streamline conversion to clean energy. Greed and capitalist slavery will evolve into even more revolting forms of greed and ugliness.
Actually, communism actively prevents the conversion to clean energy. In my area the communist Peoples' Neighborhood Committee (AKA the HOA) has strict appearance guidelines that prevent supposedly private homeowners from using solar tiles.
If you want to look at how well countries under communism transfer to clean energy, just look at Cuba and Venezuela. Russia has made massive strides, but really the only one on top was the country that was doing the worst in most recent history. China literally had all of its citizens wearing face masks because of the pollution. They streamlined their factory system to have the pinnacle of efficiency, making mass production much cheaper than anywhere else but also the most technologically advanced. The Chin
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My HOA has the same rule, but the state laws (New Mexico) say they are unable to prevent solar so lots of homes have installed it anyway.
The Tesla tiles should make for an interesting argument some day because the HOA *also* has rules about what roofing tiles you can install. As the Tesla solar roof is both, I could be in a strange position of not having the better looking option available by the rules. The HOA may be able to enforce that I can only install the less attractive panels.
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An opt in (by moving) local people selected government seems very much like how radical libertarians think things should be handled to me.
People are free to associate and form groups that set rules for the group and enforce them. All in the form of private contracts.
Re: Communism will save (Score:1)
He's not completely wrong. Communism does have a very reliable track record of reducing energy consumption. But that's just because the entire economy collapses and nobody is consuming much energy at all. Once that happens, the power generation stations themselves tend to physically deteriorate, and sometimes even fail catastrophically, reducing energy consumption even more.
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that's just because the entire economy collapses
Ah yes, unlike capitalist economies, which never collapse. (do I need to throw a /s here?)