Party Is Over For Dirt-Cheap Solar Panels, Says China Executive (reuters.com) 170
The president of a top-10 maker of solar panels said the global solar power industry is about to lose a major competitive windfall as prices of Chinese-made solar panels begin to recover after a collapse last year. "The party is definitely over," said Eric Luo, president of China's GCL System Integration Technology Co. Reuters reports: Solar panel prices tumbled around 30 percent last year after China, the world's largest producer, cut subsidies to shrink its bloated solar industry, pushing smaller manufacturers to the brink of collapse. To raise cash and stay afloat, manufacturers cleared inventory and diverted sales offshore, sending prices into a downward spiral - offering up a windfall for solar power generators and investors in solar farms.
Luo, speaking to Reuters at the World Economic Forum in the Swiss ski resort of Davos this week, said GCL's vertically integrated business model cushioned it from the downturn in prices as its solar farms benefited from cheaper panels. The pain will mostly be felt by smaller Chinese producers, which lack international supply chains, triggering industry consolidation or forcing them to close, he added. Luo said solar panel prices were already stabilizing and he expected them to rebound by 10 to 15 percent as the Chinese industry consolidates over the next year or two. Luo also said that China was getting to the point where the solar industry could operate without any form of subsidy. Northwest China, where the sun is more plentiful and land is less expensive, has already reached that point, he said.
Luo, speaking to Reuters at the World Economic Forum in the Swiss ski resort of Davos this week, said GCL's vertically integrated business model cushioned it from the downturn in prices as its solar farms benefited from cheaper panels. The pain will mostly be felt by smaller Chinese producers, which lack international supply chains, triggering industry consolidation or forcing them to close, he added. Luo said solar panel prices were already stabilizing and he expected them to rebound by 10 to 15 percent as the Chinese industry consolidates over the next year or two. Luo also said that China was getting to the point where the solar industry could operate without any form of subsidy. Northwest China, where the sun is more plentiful and land is less expensive, has already reached that point, he said.
Bright side (Score:5, Informative)
The good news is there are now at least 23 companies making solar panels in the USA, and their prices are becoming more competitive. It'll get even better once the dumb trade war is over.
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Yeah lost 2 grand on that one with Molycorp
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The decoder-ring for your statement is "trade war."
That shows that when you say "panel," you only mean final assembly of the parts.
If the trade war continues, expect old chip fabs in the US to be converted to making the whole thing.
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I didn't say "US solar companies". I said companies making solar panels in the US.
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Where do they get their chips, though? I thought all the foundries moved overseas.
And the other shoe drops. (Score:2)
China pretty much has cornered production on solar panels.
Now they'll start ratcheting up the pricing.
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Now is the time to buy a house in California before the solar roof prices drive everyone to live in tents in the city parks.
Yup (Score:2)
Cheap now, EXPENSIVE later (Score:2)
Dumping (Score:2)
This was simply dumping to dstroy competitors
Funded by China
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Yep! Exactly. They tried to dump substandard quality panels on foreign markets like the USA, hoping they'd put the competition under. But ultimately, it didn't work and China is tired of paying so much to subsidize their manufacture, to keep selling them below their cost. A lot of the companies offering the "no money down solar loans/leases" were using the cheapest panels they could source from China, and people wound up with PV solar installations that degraded, only outputting 60% or so of their rated pow
Price is dictated by the ROI (Score:2)
Oh man she is off her rocker (Score:2, Funny)
She actually talks about using direct solar heating to replace an immersion heater for heating a cup of water.
Yeah deer no worries, have your tea ready in a trice, let me just sight the Fresnel Lens on the sun and the water will be hot in a jiffy.
Then she complains nuclear doesn't have a sufficient energy profit and we should directly generate and employ motive power from intermittent sources. Yeah be real nice having a band saw directly powered by the wind or hooked up to a Stirling Engine in a concentrati
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Parabolic heliostat leading to a large thermal mass via waveguide with a mirrored hatch through which cup can be interposed into beam path. Direct heat when sunny, indirect via heat exchanger at other times. Also suitable for kinetic output with turbine (stirling a poor choice for high power).
Direct motive energy from wind to perform non time critical tasks. Flywheel in evacuated enclosure with magnetic bearings to extend availability.
Argument from incredulity rejected. Engineering knowledge and imagination
Thanks (Score:2)
Parabolic heliostat leading to a large thermal mass via waveguide with a mirrored hatch through which cup can be interposed into beam path. Direct heat when sunny, indirect via heat exchanger at other times. Also suitable for kinetic output with turbine (stirling a poor choice for high power).
Direct motive energy from wind to perform non time critical tasks. Flywheel in evacuated enclosure with magnetic bearings to extend availability.
Argument from incredulity rejected. Engineering knowledge and imagination impugned.
Next.
That's even funnier than the crazy woman.
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Perhaps you should up what "intermittent" actually means.
I'm in Thailand, Isan, since 5,5 month. There were two rainy days and two cloudy days. Sun goes up at 6:30 and sets around 17:30. Absolutely nothing "intermittent" here ... same for the Sahara or Australia.
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You're under-rating concentrators...but not as much as some people overrate them. I've seen someone set up on the sidewalk using a concentrator to weld plastic. So they can be used and be useful. But she had to move as the sun moved. Inconvenient, at best.
I think concentrators could be quite useful in places where there's a lot of unshaded space to do something requiring focused moderate heat with someone already present to do the stuff...because someone's going to need to adjust the angles every so oft
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The number of batteries I would need (I already have ~ $9k worth, a couple tons weight) - to use fewer panels but install concentrators which cost near
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The lady I saw using it wasn't living off the grid. She just wanted to weld plastic where there was sun, but no source of electricity. She wasn't using it as a replacement for grid electricity, but as a specific source for a specific project in a specific place. (OTOH, to justify the investment, she must do it fairly often.)
Like I said, concentrators are usually oversold. But they do have some used.
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You can do many things with "unreliable solar power" ... or with wind depending on places. ... depending how busy you are with refilling .... to water one parcel of a
My plan is to use only electric pumps (most are electric anyway), to irrigate the farmland of my wife.
At the moment they use a mobile pump with a gasoline engine and place it whee ever they need it, it has a tank for about 6h, so if you want it to run longer than that you have to drive there and refill it.
Usually you run it 4 days, 2x 6h or so
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I'm in Thailand
That's the problem. To manufacture solar PV cells and an adequate power grid, you need an advanced industry. You can install a small hydroelectric power plant [wikipedia.org] in the middle of Africa, or on the top of Andes and it works and everyone can maintain it for decades with a worker toolbox. The same goes for a diesel or petrol or gas power unit. But solar? You can do maintenance only if you have access to an industrially advanced society: a society that could not sustain itself on solar alone.
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You can do maintenance only if you have access to an industrially advanced society: a society that could not sustain itself on solar alone.
What has that to do with me living in Thailand? Thailand is an industrial advanced society. Hence they e.g. have faster internet even in the most rural areas than anywhere in the US.
I simply pointed out to the parent, that where I live, during this part for the year, I have reliable 13.5h solar power: every single day. However: our power comes from the grid. And as we on
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What is that thing where the sun is completely unavailable no matter if there is cloud cover or not ?
Oh yeah I think they call it nighttime.
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What is that thing where the sun is completely unavailable no matter if there is cloud cover or not ?
Oh yeah I think they call it
... low demand hours!
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Wait, you thought outdoor lighting was the main source of electrical demand?!?! LOL
Well better that (Score:2)
Than thinking people don't use power at night.
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Except when you already know that that is the lowest load part of the day, then it shows that you're merely intellectually dishonest; you don't have an excuse, like the stupid guys do. You're just pure flamebait.
LOL Intellectually dishonest (Score:2)
Coming from the man who said
Wait, you thought outdoor lighting was the main source of electrical demand?!?! LOL
Yeah all that lighting is because that's the only thing going on, and that's exactly what I was saying / sarcasm
Except when you already know that that is the lowest load part of the day, then it shows that you're merely intellectually dishonest; you don't have an excuse, like the stupid guys do. You're just pure flamebait.
What's your excuse ? Pretending that people don't use power at night or that a solar thermal system at your home for heating teais anything other than ridiculous
Face it, you aren't thinking about this. You're a zealot that reacts badly whenever it's pointed out the emperor has no clothes.
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Everybody knows that at night there is no sun and a PV panel does not work.
So you are flamebait dumbass, thats all.
As your parent tried to explain you unpolitely: the load curve is at night the lowest. Depending on country 40% of peak, or even 20% of peak: because everyone is sleeping ...
Even a dumbass like you knows that ... so why flaming around? To look smart? You failed.
Says the guy in "Dry Thailand" (Score:2)
https://weather-and-climate.co... [weather-and-climate.com]
Yeah 6 months without rain in one of the wettest countries on earth
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Thailand is a big country.
If you want a weather report about where I live, try Nakhon Phanom or Sakon Nakhon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
"Yeah 6 months without rain in one of the wettest countries on earth" see, how easy you can make na idiot out of your self? What has the last recent 5 - 6 month to do with the other 6 month were we have rain season? Oh, up here the rain season is only 4 month ... dumbass.
Cherry Picking by any other name (Score:2)
Thailand is a big country.
So you picked a small part of a large country that isn't representative of the whole and accused me of making a dumbass of myself ?
Well you may be right, I did think that the fact life goes on after sunset would have been enough to make even the biggest idiot think twice. I had no idea I could be so wrong.
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No, dumbass. You picked a small part of the country, namely the capital: Bangkok.
And probably you never looked on a map either. I live what is the equivalent of the "mid west" in America. Bangkok is the equivalent of Mami.
No idea why you are so stupid to answer more and more stupid answers to this thread. I'm here since 130 days consecutive since mid October ... since then we had about 3 days with rain. One day where it rained very long, perhaps even 6h. And two ... hm, was it three days? , where it rained
You have actually been to Thailand ? (Score:2)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Thailand's climate is influenced by monsoon winds that have a seasonal character (the southwest and northeast monsoon).[52]:2 The southwest monsoon, which starts from May until October is characterized by movement of warm, moist air from the Indian Ocean to Thailand, causing abundant rain over most of the country.[52]:2 The northeast monsoon, starting from October until February brings cold and dry air from China over most of Thailand.[52]:2 In southern Thailand, the northeast monsoon brings mild weather and abundant rainfall on the eastern coast of that region.[52]:2 Most of Thailand has a "tropical wet and dry or savanna climate" type (Köppen's Tropical savanna climate).[53] The south and the eastern tip of the east have a tropical monsoon climate.
Thailand is divided into three seasons.[52]:2 The first is the rainy or southwest monsoon season (mid–May to mid–October) which prevails over most of the country.[52]:2 This season is characterized by abundant rain with August and September being the wettest period of the year.[52]:2 This can occasionally lead to floods.[52]:4 In addition to rainfall caused by the southwest monsoon, the Intertropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ) and tropical cyclones also contribute to producing heavy rainfall during the rainy season.[52]:2 Nonetheless, dry spells commonly occur for 1 to 2 weeks from June to early July.[52]:4 This is due to the northward movement of the Intertropical Convergence Zone to southern China.[52]:4 Winter or the northeast monsoon starts from mid–October until mid–February.[52]:2 Most of Thailand experiences dry weather during this season with mild temperatures.[52]:2:4 The exception is the southern parts of Thailand where it receives abundant rainfall, particularly during October to November.[52]:2 Summer or the pre–monsoon season runs from mid–February until mid–May and is characterized by warmer weather.[52]:3
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Unfortunately your wiki article is wrong ...
The northeast monsoon, starting from October until February brings cold and dry air from China over most of Thailand.[52]:2 :D dry wind ... since october, dumbass.
This actually what we have at the moment
But it is not called monsoon ... no idea who wrote the article. Monsoon means rain season ... depending on where you are it starts around august and ends around december.
If you would read the stuff you quote, you would clearly see: we are in the dry/cold seasons si
Everyone but you is wrong (Score:2)
https://www.statravel.co.nz/th... [statravel.co.nz]
https://www.weatheronline.co.u... [weatheronline.co.uk]
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What is about those links?
Something wrong? Do they need prove reading?
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What is about those links?
Something wrong? Do they need prove reading?
Well maybe not, but they do prove proper use of pronouns and prepositions.
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Most people in Thailand don't need power at night, except for the fridge, and for that they have a thing we call a grid.
Dumbass ....
That would be the Thailand where it doesn't rain (Score:2)
https://weather-and-climate.co... [weather-and-climate.com]
Gotta say though I love your ability to look at satellite imagery of your country lit up like a christmas tree and claim nobody is using power
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I never said nobody is using power.
I said in Germany night load, aka base load is around 40%.
And in Thailand it is lower.
So shove your satellite images where no one sees them, as you are obviously to dumb to draw conclusions from them :P
Sure (Score:2)
Most people in Thailand don't need power at night
Must have been that other Angel'o'sphere
So many of you around.
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You are mixing up street lights with people.
I'm often coming home late. Around 20:00 most people in my town are in bed ...
No idea about what you want to argue.
Sure they are (Score:2)
The same way you are at quarter past midnight your time engaging in argument on an electrically powered computer, but in the dark of course for you.
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And a computer as mine, how much power does it use?
Why do you try to prove you are an idiot, I don't get it.
The factory next door with over 1000 workers was closed ... I think the power it drew before dwarfs my computer, but perhaps you know better ...
All the shops are closed ... and at midnight (I was actually sleeping at midnight already) 90% of the Thai in rural Thailand are sleeping, should be a no brainer. But no, it is not, as you like to argue about stuff, you have no clue about.
If you repeat that often enough you might believe (Score:2)
You might want to try positive affirmations though tell yourself your smart.
It just might work better than saying stupid things
All the shops are closed ... and at midnight (I was actually sleeping at midnight already) 90% of the Thai in rural Thailand are sleeping
When the majority of the Thai population is urban.
So while your factory is shut down the night clubs in Bangkok are going full bore.
But then again keep on replying on your magic computer that doesn't use power, with all the other people who aren't in bed by 8:00 pm ?
Around 20:00 most people in my town are in bed .
LOL do you go around tucking them in
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So while your factory is shut down the night clubs in Bangkok are going full bore.
And in comparision to a factory, how much power does a night club use?
LOL do you go around tucking them in
Unfortunately not, my GF/wife does not allow me.
However when we come home from the super market (which closes at 20:00) we pass many many houses.
What is wrong with you? Is your telepathy failing you? You live on the other side of the planet and believe to know more than one who is living at the place you are scrying? Perha
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My telepathy ?
I'm not the guy claiming to know the habits, of everyone in the town where I live let alone the entire country.
I am also not the guy who thinks the area where I live represents the entire world
Most of all I am not the guy, who somehow thinks solar isn't an intermittent power source that isn't available more often that it is.
Oh and because I am kind I will answer and earlier question of yours. You wanted to know why you kept coming back to this thread ? It's because you are so horribly wrong on
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I am also not the guy who thinks the area where I live represents the entire world
Yes you are.
I pointed out to some GP post that *here* we have since about 5 month sunshine from 6:30 to 18:00 *every day* except 3 or 4.
So his brain dead idea about intermittent sunshine is bollocks.
You jumped in with the the stupid idea that people/countries use at night the same amount of power as they do at day, they don't.
And that is true FOR EVERYWHERE ON THE WORLD.
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I pointed out to some GP post that *here* we have since about 5 month sunshine from 6:30 to 18:00 *every day* except 3 or 4.
Yes that 18:00 to 6:30 doesn't count for you ?
Oh and now are people in bed by 6:00 PM ? Not using the AC, or the Heater, The Television, The Stove , Charging The Electric Car.
Oh wait, not only are those things you that you need constant power sources for, they are things that trying to use solar directly for won't work at all. They are all electric.
Dude, you don't need to argue with me, you need to see a priest and get a religion you actually realize you have.
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The point is not what the PEOPLE do but what the COUNTRY does, and as industry and business is closed, the power consumption is roughy half at night.
How dumb are you?
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The point is not what the PEOPLE do but what the COUNTRY does , and as industry and business is closed, the power consumption is roughy half at night.
How dumb are you?
O"rlly ? Tell me oh enlightened wizard of electricity is 2/3rds (the correct answer by the way) greater or less than zero ? And just where does that 2/3rds come from when your non intermittent power source isn't there ? Oh and lets not talk about the months when it isn't clear and the days are shorter.
Once again go see a priest. Get a religion you will at least understand you have instead of one that has you thinking you have none. That way you will at least stop bringing shame on yourself and your family.
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At night I don't need solar power, plain and simple ... unless I produce > 50% of my power by solar and can store the excess power ... wich is unlikely.
Go google what a "load curve" is ...
You probably the dumbest hobby electrics expert on the internet.
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At night I don't need solar power, plain and simple ... unless I produce > 50% of my power by solar and can store the excess power ... wich is unlikely.
And you don't need it in winter when the days are shorter and you need more to heat your home, and you don't need it in the rainy season aka the monsoon season in your country, and you don't need at night when you are in the hospital and your factory doesn't need it all day every day.
But really you are right you never need solar, because every country in the world has built their power grids around always available dispatchable power not intermittent sources. Go figure.
Get thee to a nunnery
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We talked about Thailand, especially the place where I live, Isan.
So: no we don't have in winter significantly shorter days. The rainy season has most of the time extremely fixed time periods during wich it is raining. So if it rains today from 16:00 till 18:30, it will do "the same" tomorrow.
because every country in the world has built their power grids around always available dispatchable power not intermittent sources. ... perhaps you missed the
No, they have not.
Examples:
UK, Denmark, Iceland and Germany
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We talked about Thailand, especially the place where I live, Isan.
No you specifically talked about that. I talked about the world in general
UK, Denmark, Iceland and Germany ... perhaps you missed the news.
UK gets 21 % of it's power from nuclear
http://www.world-nuclear.org/i... [world-nuclear.org]
Iceland gets most of it's power from geothermal. (Not solar Not intermittent and Dispatchable)
Denmark and Germany import electricity from other countries and still have the highest electric rates in Europe likely the world at 41 cents per KWH last I looked.
Not even bothering to read the rest of your rant
You're a religious maniac and you don't even understand it. G
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On the other hand, https://weather.gc.ca/city/pag... [weather.gc.ca] note the sunrise and sunset times, about 11:45-16:30 as well as the cold temperatures.
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That's misrepresenting what she was saying. Simply it is easier to harvest heat from solar rather than electrical energy and it's far more efficient than generating electricity and then using it to heat water.
Googling solar water heaters, a typical home can get a system for around 5 to 6000 before grants. It saves around 800 a year. If you have the money it's a good return and it does work on a cloudy winters day. If you own your own home it's a reasonable option.
Power generation pretty much is too expens
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Simply it is easier to harvest heat from solar rather than electrical energy and it's far more efficient than generating electricity and then using it to heat water.
It makes plenty of sense to have both thermal and PV systems. However, the thermal systems are grossly more prone to failure, and anything likely to produce return trips to the roof has a cost, albeit a fractional one — in lives. Most of the deaths from solar involve falling off of roofs, and solar installer is a fairly dangerous job as a result.
Power generation pretty much is too expensive for individual homes,
It depends on where those homes are located. PG&E is claiming that they're going to have to significantly increase rates in order to go forward. Most PG
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In Southern California, where there's a lot of air conditioner use, and in the northern central valley (ditto), it does make a lot of sense. The heavy use and the heavy generation happen at the same time. Along the coast, where air conditioner use is minor, it's a lot more problematical, as heavy use tends to happen around 5-7PM, when the sun's not helping much. If the grid couldn't port the electricity generated in midday from the coast inland and to the South, photoelectric would be a horrendous proble
No that's verbatim what she said (Score:2)
That's misrepresenting what she was saying. Simply it is easier to harvest heat from solar rather than electrical energy and it's far more efficient than generating electricity and then using it to heat water.
No that's verbatim what she said, she literally said to use solar thermal to replace a $2 immersion heater. She also literally said to use windmills for direct manufacturing.
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You are actually better off from an efficiency perspective with PV and a heat pump hot water heater, unless you need higher than 120F water. Running it from the bathroom exhaust in the winter and indoor air in the summer and you are golden.
Logic being that you are decoupling hot water demand from sunshine, so both resources are fully utilized. Off-grid the math is different, as well as when you need 140F water.
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> Yeah be real nice having a band saw directly powered by the wind
You mean like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6FxG3ll-lw
Try looking at a real sawmill (Score:2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Not someone's tourist trap
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She claims EROEI on PV is 3:1. Sure, in 1987 maybe. Current panels have "harmonized EROIs between 8.7 and 34.2".
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"Harmonized", as in after you cook the numbers starting from ideal conditions and applying some BS reasoning?
No, as in, when confronted with data from various sources, you try to correct for the methodological differences to put the results in a meta-study on equal footing.
It is highly doubtful that solar is viable without relying on fossil energy
*This* is an actual example of "BS reasoning", seeing as manufacturing of solar equipment is primarily electricity-intensive.
and EROI also ignores materials inputs, associated mining, and eventual disposal
Of course it doesn't, why would it do that? Cradle-to-grave analysis is a thing nowadays.
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If some other region was say 10% away from the best then 4x as much would be 40% away and sure that work.
I don't understand that part at all.
You're not the only one who say it like that but it seem completely retarded, why not say 1/4 as good or 3/4 less instead?
Because it's an equivalent, and in my mother tongue your suggestions would be completely retarded.
Re: low energy density (Score:2)
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The sun is still free, and there are more companies making solar panels in the USA and Canada than ever. Some of their prices are competitive with China, too. One US company is about to open a big plant in Mexico.
Your vibe doesn't have to be harshed.
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Good. More jobs for us then.
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This only had a major effect on big commercial users like solar farms. Residential customers will be buying panels from domestic or Japanese/Korean brands most likely, complete with long warranty periods.
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At some point the buyer will go for a solution with mirrors and molten salt. instead.
A PV farm is lick and stick, routine maintenance and panel cleaning aside. A molten salt concentrator array needs all the same kinds of maintenance, and more besides, and if it goes wrong it can also be a serious problem. It's got more moving parts, liquids, etc. and all that has to be inspected on a regular basis.
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Heliene Solar is based in Ontario and manufactures its panels in Miinnesota.
https://www.heliene.com/ [heliene.com]
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No, he said 100% of the sloar panels are "rebranded Chinese garbage".
Heliene Solar is a Canadian company that makes its panels in the USA.
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I modded you up on accident so am posting to undo mod
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I didn't mod either of you because I ran out of mod points so I couldn't waste a mod point commenting to unmod a mod. mod.
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The problem with renewable energy is not so much the price to do so but the cost of not running non renewable energy. Power plants are built on the basis that there is going to be a return on investment. Truth is they get paid both to produce and not to produce in order to return that investment.
Taking Ireland as an example, i work in this market, demand can vary between around 3000 MW to 6000MW typically on a daily basis, Sometimes demand can reach higher or lower. So at minimum demand there is at least
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At one point in the future, you will overbuild the generation capacity and control load by intermittently synthesizing ammonia to replace fossil fuels used for the same purpose today. Just the current global consumption of ammonia would necessitate several hundred GW of extra average generation, so there's plenty of room for load management.
There is no way that will ever be economically efficient. Syn fuels are great but not a panacea. They have 2 basic inputs to make them: heat and fuel-stock. The fuel-stock is easier but still you need a lot of it and hopefully we can use plant material instead of coal. The real problem is that the heat needs to be consistent and of a specific temperature (at least 500C to be efficient) and getting that from electricity is very hard/inefficient/expensive. To make it efficient you really need nuclear (sp
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The problem with renewable energy is not so much the price to do so but the cost of not running non renewable energy.
... you need enough standby generation to cover those low days and they are going to get paid if they run or not.
THIS. I'd upvote you to 6 but I don't have any points, never mind cascading points.
All these guys with renewables forget they're not 100% dependable and unless you want to be in the dark you need a backup source ready to go within seconds, not construction years. And 10x overproduction is great, but at night none of the solar banks are busy. I want an average load-out with peaks, but I've got variable input that ranges from 0-200%. NOT the same thing.
It's kind of interesting what tesla is doing in Australia
THAT. Besides pushing trains or water uphill or sp
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Solar for the patsies, coal for China. China is building as much coal generating capacity as US has in its entirety ... the few PV projects are only value signalling.
Without subsidy levelized cost for solar has to be cheaper than fuel cost for coal plants they have any way. That's less than a $0.01 per kWh, solar is getting close but it's still at least a decade off barring some technological leap AFAICS.
Re:Rent, workers (Score:5, Informative)
>That's less than a $0.01 per kWh
Huh? "CN: Usage Price: Electricity for Industry: 35 kV & Above" from https://www.ceicdata.com/en/china/electricity-price
0.870 RMB/kWh = 13 cents USD/kWh
The US price for industrial power is lower across the board:
https://blsstrategies.com/docs/news/News_181.pdf
20 year solar PPAs are being signed for delivery this year at 1.4 cents/kWh. More realistic numbers for China are between 4 and 6 cents. That is precisely why China announced they were no longer offering any support on PV installs. Yet in spite of removing those incentives, current predictions are for ~45 GWp of installs this year in China alone.
It's not hard to see why: PV can be installed incrementally, one panel at a time. Therefore you can easily ramp up and down with supply-n-demand, labor availability, access to cash, etc. Wind and natural gas are next in line in scalability, the former ~1.5MW per install and the later around 200 kW in most cases. But for something like a reactor, it's 1 GW or nothing. This really skews the financing side toward the renewables.
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They have the coal plants any way, as well as the personnel to man it.
The _levelized_ cost of solar has to compete against the _fuel_ cost of coal.
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No, they have externalized costs that they already consider to be greater than any savings.
And the coal cost is higher than PV. The only reason China uses any coal is for total capacity.
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Not with the real cost of solar in China to China for solar vs coal.
If coal was more expensive than solar in China then coal would not be considered.
Coal is still been considered now in 2019 so it is still cheaper energy than a new large solar project.
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The lowest cost energy project that can power a factory to make exports 24/7 wins Communist party backing.
A coal, solar project would be considered.
Coal projects can still win on price so they get given approval. No more just doing solar to show solar is getting used more.
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Coal can still be considered vs a new large solar project.
China wants the lowest cost of energy 24/7. So no factory has to pay more for energy at any time of the day/night.
A supported solar project with all its costs still allows coal to be cheaper.
Communists want low cost power to drive jobs and exports.
Coal power just keeps the energy going 24/7 at a fixed price.
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Solar for the patsies, coal for China. China is building as much coal generating capacity as US has in its entirety ... the few PV projects are only value signalling.
Without subsidy levelized cost for solar has to be cheaper than fuel cost for coal plants they have any way. That's less than a $0.01 per kWh, solar is getting close but it's still at least a decade off barring some technological leap AFAICS.
Exactly.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/j... [forbes.com]
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IIRC, the last time I investigated solar most of the cost was installation, not materials.
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This story is about the domestic prices in China, not international market prices.