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Portables (Apple) The Courts iMac Apple Hardware Technology

Apple Hit With Class Action Suit Over Lack of Dust Filters In Macbook, iMac (9to5mac.com) 208

Posted by BeauHD from the missing-pieces dept.
AmiMoJo shares a report from 9to5Mac: Apple is facing a new class action lawsuit claiming that it sells select iMac and MacBook models without needed dust filters. In turn, this causes issues such as display imprecations, slowing performance, and more, the lawsuit alleges. The iMac and MacBook lawsuit is being brought forward by law firm Hagens Berman Sobol Shapiro, which is a class action litigation firm that has gone after Apple before. Most notably, the firm won the infamous $450 million ebooks pricing case against Apple. Since then, Hagens Berman has levied other suits at Apple, including one regarding the performance throttling of iPhones. Hagens Berman's latest lawsuit reads in part: "iMac and MacBook owners have reported dark smudges and spots on the interior of the screens of their desktop computers as well as excessive slowness and break downs of their computers related to the lack of filter on Apple computers. The computer intakes air to cool its components, but with no filter, dust gets trapped inside. This affects the screen and logic board of the computer, leading to dust stuck behind the screen and gummed up motherboards, causing the computer to run slow and/or overheat."

Hagens Berman says "Apple refuses to remedy the defect," instead forcing affected customers to pay "more than $500 to fix this screen defect, and even more if they wish to replace parts integral to the computer's sped and performance." "We believe Apple owes it to the purchasers of these premium, high-end computers to pay for the widespread defect, and we seek to represent iMac owners to recover their losses in costs to repair this defect, or for their loss of use of their computer."
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Apple Hit With Class Action Suit Over Lack of Dust Filters In Macbook, iMac More

Apple Hit With Class Action Suit Over Lack of Dust Filters In Macbook, iMac

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  • Ummm (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nehumanuscrede ( 624750 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @10:13PM (#57750820)

    I don't believe any of the laptops, tablets or even desktops I've ever owned have come with filter systems on the intakes.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tsa ( 15680 )

      Me neither. But you can argue that Apple's obsession with thinness and irrepairability makes them necessary.

      • Me neither. But you can argue that Apple's obsession with thinness and irrepairability makes them necessary.

        But then, you can argue anything...

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by tsa ( 15680 )

          Indeed. I never had any of my Apple stuff overheating because of dust, so maybe it's just a maintenance thing. Some facts about the failing of Apple producs vs other manufacturers' stuff because of dust are needed.

          • Indeed. I never had any of my Apple stuff overheating because of dust, so maybe it's just a maintenance thing. Some facts about the failing of Apple producs vs other manufacturers' stuff because of dust are needed.

            Exactly. But NO ONE has as deep of pockets as Apple; so they are a lawsuit-magnet like no other...

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      It's not that common but Thinkpads often have them.

      • And I bet those particular models are bigger ones.

        The better quality the filter is, the larger surface area it needs to have. Even a coarse mesh needs an increased surface compared to a plain opening.

        The intake can't be placed on the bottom. That leaves the thin edges, as currently done, or on top around the keyboard.

        Or back-off on the heating/clock-speed.

      • Thinkpads have normally been built to be rugged laptops. Meant to be on factory floors. But MacBook are meant to go from desk to desk. In a rather clean room.

        • Our orgs T-series thinkpads don't have filters. They do have mesh over the intakes, but that's like sifting flour with chicken wire.
    • That's because it doesn't need filters, it's bloody components, especially the screen, aren't sealed.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by jtara ( 133429 )

      Every desktop I've ever owned had inlet filters.

      But even if not, they were easy to open up and clean out.

      These Apple products are not user serviceable. At best, you need special screwdrivers. At worst, you need to use a specially-designed cutting tool, and have a replacement gasket handy.

      • Every desktop I've ever owned had inlet filters.

        Mine too, but that just meant that once they clogged up the PC would start using the floppy, DVD drives, USB ports, etc as intakes and fill those with dust.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by antdude ( 79039 )

      Do they help at all? I was thinking of intake filters for my decade old PCs since they get so dusty easily since I live in a desert rural area. :(

      • Yes they can definitely help. You decide the compromise between better filtration, reduced airflow, and increasing the inlet size or ambient environment.

        A more effective filter will reduce the amount of dust that gets in, but it will also reduce the amount of air. You can either monitor your temps with an applet, or just pay attention if you hear the fans spin up on high.

        My computer is tucked into an opening in my desk, such that the airflow into the case and out of it isn't ideal. If I had thick, low-micr

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by antdude ( 79039 )

          Which air filters do you recommend to cover my case vents? Can I use tissues as my filters over them?

          • I just pulled a tissue from my box of generic tissues and found it was made up of three layers. Carefully peeling off one layer and trying to breathe through it, I was surprised it didn't restrict airflow as much as I expected. Paper tissues were originally made to be filters in chemical weapons masks, so that just might work. I wonder if it would break down over time and become particles that get sucked into the case.

            Manufacturers typically use a thin sheet of open cell foam. I don't have any specific bran

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by antdude ( 79039 )

              I have no pets, but I do have human hairs like my own. Ha. I finally got my two decade old PCs cleaned about 1.5 weeks ago. Wow, they were covered by snown storm after two years of not cleaning inside. :(

    • Re:Ummm (Score:4, Funny)

      by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Wednesday December 05, 2018 @12:54AM (#57751296)

      I don't believe any of the laptops, tablets or even desktops I've ever owned have come with filter systems on the intakes.

      Then why on earth are you wasting time talking to us? GET THEE TO A LAWYER!

      Time is money, man!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      It doesn't matter what everyone else does. What matters is if Apple designed their systems in such a way that dust can get into the screen and other problematic areas. This photo illustrates it well: https://www.hbsslaw.com/case-f... [hbsslaw.com]

      Apple are not the only ones to suffer from this problem, lots of other all-in-one systems do too.

      • Apple are not the only ones to suffer from this problem, lots of other all-in-one systems do too.

        Oh three other hands most all in ones are nasty cheap things. The fastest machine you can get from Apple is some sort of iMac which costs over 7 grand.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by epine ( 68316 )

          The fastest machine you can get from Apple is some sort of iMac which costs over 7 grand.

          I just don't get the love for quoting the stupid-money price ceiling.

          Did speaker wire teach us nothing? Did deoxygenated digital interconnects teach us nothing? Chalk one up for "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink".

          The largest price you can possibly pay is of concern to criminals, cretins, scoundrels, the insane, and marketing departments only (to spell it out in full retinal redundancy).

          • I just don't get the love for quoting the stupid-money price ceiling.

            Huh? If a shitbox low end all in one gets a bit crapper, who cares? If a 7 grand machine suffers the same fate, people are going to care. iMacs are high end items not low end, so the fact that other much cheaper machines are crap isn't any justification.

    • last 2-3 gens of apple laptops have been having dead keyboards due to dust.
      I've never seen any laptop having such issues with dust.
      You maybe have to clean the cooler grills after a decade of use, but that's it.

    • I don't believe any of the laptops, tablets or even desktops I've ever owned have come with filter systems on the intakes.

      Pretty much every modern desktop computer case comes with a magnetic filter on the intakes for the main tower and the PSU. Takes about two seconds to pull them off, clean them, and stick them back on. My desktop has an even better filter on the front panel that keeps almost all of the dust out of it and I can easily clean it with my vacuum or remove the front panel and wash the filter. It’s about $5 cheaper to use a case that doesn’t have these filters, maybe less.

    • My desktop has a dust filter on the intake. Every single laptop and netbook I have owned, including the 10 inch models, had an air intake. Some of those had filters on them as well.
      Then again, I don't buy overpriced garbage.

    • The high $$$ PC class machines, like toughbooks and industrial systems, are engineered to be highly resistant to dust infiltration.

      I don't think longevity is a design goal for consumer status symbols, though. :)

    • How about oil filters?

      If the 2015 MacBook had oil filters, it wouldn't have gotten into my screen.

      Yeah, I'm not making this up. It was on the floor of my trunk while I was packing, and the oil jug I put in the trunk before a road trip fell over, and turned out to have a hole.

      It's *really* weird to have 5W20 synthetic slowly oozing out of your screen . . .

      hawk

  • Our users realize that these are consumer products and, like a toaster, if it breaks they should just buy a new one [apple.com] be a good consumer and, stop complaining.

  • Pass the cost on (Score:3)

    by q-the-impaler ( 708563 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @10:39PM (#57750904)

    It's OK, Apple will pass the cost on to the consumer (including the legal fees to defend), just like the car companies markup and pass on the cost for all the safety features they are forced by law to install.

    Seriously though, this is freaking frivolous. I will not feel vindicated if Apple loses this, just more affirmed that if I start a company that makes a widget, it will end with more lawyers than widget makers before I sell it.

    • Yeah, they're barely surviving on the margins they have now, so they would be forced to raise prices rather than take slightly lower profit to keep their laptops at a marketable price point.

      • I sense your sarcasm.
        You don't have to buy Apple laptops. You make a consumer decision to do so. Put your money into laptops with filters if that pleases you.

  • No airbags on Macs? Sue, sue, sue. A kitty watching a bird video might bonk its furry head against the screen. Won't somebody think of the kitties?

  • Lawyers designing computers (Score:3)

    by mileshigh ( 963980 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @10:50PM (#57750940)

    Thanks for the design help, guys. 'Coz us engineers have no idea how to design computers.

    • Thanks for the design help, guys. 'Coz us engineers have no idea how to design computers.

      Precisely.

    • I was going to say... It's fine if you want to sue because the device breaks. It's fine if you want to sue because it degrades over time. But you don't get to sue because it doesn't have the exact mitigation for these problems that you think it should. Let the engineers do the engineering. Sue about the problem not the solution.

      ObCarAnalogy: When your car is overheating, you don't take it to the mechanic and tell them to replace the thermostat. You take it to them and say, "It's overheating, fix it". Y

    • Thanks for the design help, guys. 'Coz us engineers have no idea how to design computers.

      I fully aree. Eieers kow better tha ayoe else of how to desi a ood product ad there's o room every for cosumer recourse or leal challees.

      Posted from my Macbook Pro with that awesomely enieered keyboard made by people who kew what they were doi.

  • If you win, Apple will design out the problem of dust.. No ports, memory card slots, or ventilation. Everything will throttle to sub GHz speeds, and all wireless connections and battery charging. Sounds great until you see the resulting product also does not have a physical keyboard.

  • No experience. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Jfetjunky ( 4359471 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @11:13PM (#57751040)
    Obviously a complaint from someone with no experience on the matter. I work for a large electronics company. We used to sell equipment with filters for tha fans. Guess what? They plug up faster and cause the equipment to fail sooner than if it was there or not.
    Doesn't matter that they were serviceable/replaceable. Doesn't matter we talked about it in the manual. That's just the way it is.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      I also have commercial experience with filters and they work just fine. The point of the filter is that the dust can't pass through, so it accumulates on the outside where it can be wiped away.

      Some people use a vacuum cleaner but I don't recommend it because it can force the fan into overspeed and tends to suck air through the exhaust which might not be filtered.

      At the very least you need to design it such that dust that is sucked in cannot leave the cooling system, i.e. by sealing it with filters and gromm

    • The filters plug up because they are filtering the dust. It's not some kind of defect. I can't believe people don't understand this.

    • Obviously a complaint from someone with no experience on the matter. I work for a large electronics company. We used to sell equipment with filters for tha fans. Guess what? They plug up faster and cause the equipment to fail sooner than if it was there or not.

      Doesn't matter that they were serviceable/replaceable. Doesn't matter we talked about it in the manual. That's just the way it is.

      Spoken like the voice of experience!

    • Guess what? They plug up faster and cause the equipment to fail sooner than if it was there or not.

      Errr yeah that's the point.

      Doesn't matter that they were serviceable/replaceable.

      Errr no you entirely missed the point.

  • Compressed air anyone? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by LostMyBeaver ( 1226054 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @11:34PM (#57751108)
    Let's suppose for a moment that Apple includes an air filter in the laptops. Understand that we're not talking about a grill, a grill doesn't do much to stop dust. It would have to be an air filter.

    To produce an air filter to block particulates from entering the laptop, the filter would itself gather the particulates. This would require making the filter itself able to be cleaned. For this it would require some form of removable grill. A removable grill will require either screw holes or some sort of novel slide and release mechanism to be machined or molded from similar materials as the laptop body.

    The addition of said air filter will be of limited value if the filter can't allow air passage as well as block particulates. This means that there would have to be somewhat considerable surface area, low density, greater size, and/or a high power fan to assist with airflow as well as a corresponding power source to compensate for the additional draw.

    To make an effective air filter will add additional cost, weight, etc...

    The alternative is to facilitate effective use of compressed air through a directed nozzle.

    If there's an airflow path for cooling within the laptop that allows air to pass through in the first place, this is the path dust is following to clog the system. Therefore a high power burst of air in the reverse direction will be suitable to remove or somewhat release the particles and eject what would likely be a suitable amount from the chassis or bury in places of less importance.

    I believe if Apple loses this case, they should simply ship users a free can of compressed air with the correct nozzle for maximum effectiveness and future models should make it clear that compressed air is a suggested accessory on the side of the box.

    I think the air filter would be a generally unwelcome addition to the system.

    I also think that Apple needs to identify a means of suing this law firm for targeted frivolous law suits that don't actually represent the interests of the consumers but instead target companies who they believe they can exploit for large settlements.

    If Apple asks me, I will participate in a class action suit against this law firm for intentionally misrepresenting me and driving up the costs of products I depend on through frivolous litigation "on my behalf".

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Lifetime filters exist. Some high end vacuum cleaners use them. They can be cleaned and re-used easily.

      But actually they don't need a filter as such, that's just the layman language of the lawsuit. What they need to do is seal the cooling system so that dust which is sucked in doesn't escape and get into the screen and other problematic areas.

      In these all-in-one and laptop systems the airflow isn't through the case like a desktop PC, it's through the heatsinks that are connected via heatpipes to areas that

  • The firm name has a musical something to it... I envision it as a chorus for a catchy song.
    Sorry for being offtopic, it's just that I can't get it out of my head.

  • I suspect all this fiddling with the keyboard to make it ultra-thin, ultra-low movement is all about smoothing the transition to a fully haptic keyboard. This would allow Ives to make the MacBook slightly thinner again, and possibly it could be a second screen (Apple recently filed a patent for this concept).

    I don't know what the point of this would be, but I guess they need to keep 'innovating'. In my view, anyone who just wants to consume media is already using a tablet, and now that Apple has accepted st

  • Makes no sense (Score:3)

    by bradley13 ( 1118935 ) on Wednesday December 05, 2018 @06:46AM (#57751844) Homepage

    First, the screen is a separate, sealed unit. There should be (and AFAIK is) no open connection between the air ducts and the screen.

    Second, WTF do you want a filter? The air ducts suck in air, blow it over a heat exchanger and back out again. Who cares if there's dust in the air? It will generally just blow right back out.

    A filter is just going to clog up and cause the machine to overheat. And joe-average user will never clean the damned thing.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Have you ever opened a computer and looked at the heatsinks? They get clogged up with dust. Happens to laptops too. They need periodic cleaning.

      To make cleaning easier you can install an intake filter. Then the dust builds up on that and is easy removed without having to open the computer.

  • In turn, this causes issues such as display imprecations, slowing performance, and more, the lawsuit alleges.

    The screen curses you? Awesome!

  • Apple devices are designed to go "vintage"

    I just helped my elderly brother with his older core 2 duo iMac. Can't run chrome at all and Safari won't bring up many sites because it only supports TLS1.0. The OS cannot be upgraded past 10.6.3. Firefox seems to work barely, but this computer is essentially unusable for basic home computer tasks.

    All because Apple won't allow a newer OS to be installed. You could run Linux on a computer 25 years old.The latest Windows 10 runs OK on core 2 duo era computers.

    • Apple devices are designed to go "vintage"

      I just helped my elderly brother with his older core 2 duo iMac. Can't run chrome at all and Safari won't bring up many sites because it only supports TLS1.0. The OS cannot be upgraded past 10.6.3. Firefox seems to work barely, but this computer is essentially unusable for basic home computer tasks.

      I have a 27 inch imac in the same boat. I'm not going to whinge about ancient computers though.

      All because Apple won't allow a newer OS to be installed. You could run Linux on a computer 25 years old.The latest Windows 10 runs OK on core 2 duo era computers.

      Get one of those Vista ready machines form the same era and install W10 on it.

      The old Macs run Linux fine. I put Linux on my older PCs as well. Considering the price of Personal computers today, I paid 5K for mine in 1990, and the fact that they don't have a 2 year window of use, it is amusing what people complain about.

    • Apple devices are designed to go "vintage"

      I just helped my elderly brother with his older core 2 duo iMac. Can't run chrome at all and Safari won't bring up many sites because it only supports TLS1.0. The OS cannot be upgraded past 10.6.3. Firefox seems to work barely, but this computer is essentially unusable for basic home computer tasks.

      All because Apple won't allow a newer OS to be installed. You could run Linux on a computer 25 years old.The latest Windows 10 runs OK on core 2 duo era computers.

      As a former fanboy, I have piles of Apple products that are prematurely made useless by corporate choice.

      Would you rather pay $129 per version of macOS? Because I believe that is the tradeoff...

  • I've cleaned out a lot of computers, with a lot of dust.

    And this 500 dollar "repair" is a little silly. On an iMac, you simply attach suction cups to the glass, and pop the glass off. Give the glass a nice cleaning (I like Everclear or 91 percent Isopropal, and pop it back into place. I never thought about it, because it is just the sort of thing you do for someone as a freebee.

    For the bored: http://bored-bored.com/pc-whic... [bored-bored.com] No imacs though.

  • I love Imprecation [bandcamp.com], but that's probably not what you mean.

    Oh well. Bummer.

  • I just want my Mac to be as good as my Thinkpad.

  • What I'm getting from this is that people are finally getting fed up with Apple.

    Apple charges a completely ridiculous amount of money for purportedly best of breed hardware. And yet, especially lately, people are running into one systemic problem after another, and the only way to get them fixed is to fling class action lawsuits at Apple.

    Their last several generations of laptops have had the absolute worst keyboard made in recent history.

    Laptops that cost $3+k but are unrepairable and unupgradable. They a

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