The New and Improved MacBook Keyboards Have the Same Old Problems (theoutline.com) 99
Casey Johnston, writing for The Outline: Apple never actually caved to user complaints that its top-of-the-line computers developed sticky or dead keyboards very easily, despite having now been served with several keyboard-related class action lawsuits. In June, the company offered to repair computers with these keyboards for free for four years following the date of purchase (the cost of being without their computer notwithstanding). It claimed only a "small percentage" of users were affected. I was one of them, several times, and there were many, many others. Compared to this time last year, its computer sales are down ten percent, and not a few people have been holding off on purchasing any computer from its line in fear of getting stuck with a keyboard that doesn't work.
In July, Apple slightly redesigned the very low profile butterfly keyboard on its MacBooks and MacBook Pros, not because "a small percentage" of the previous version was rendered useless by a speck of dust, the company said, but to make it quieter; it even invited the tech press to try it out. iFixit teardowns of the hardware revealed that, in fact, Apple had added a silicone membrane under the keys that looks quite a bit like it's meant to keep dust and debris from lodging under the key and locking it up. Was that the idea? No, Apple unequivocally said. [...] But checking around online, it appears the new keyboards have the same old issues. They may be delayed, but they happen nonetheless. The MacRumors forum has a long thread about the the "gen 3 butterfly keyboard" where users have been sharing their experiences since Apple updated the design.
In July, Apple slightly redesigned the very low profile butterfly keyboard on its MacBooks and MacBook Pros, not because "a small percentage" of the previous version was rendered useless by a speck of dust, the company said, but to make it quieter; it even invited the tech press to try it out. iFixit teardowns of the hardware revealed that, in fact, Apple had added a silicone membrane under the keys that looks quite a bit like it's meant to keep dust and debris from lodging under the key and locking it up. Was that the idea? No, Apple unequivocally said. [...] But checking around online, it appears the new keyboards have the same old issues. They may be delayed, but they happen nonetheless. The MacRumors forum has a long thread about the the "gen 3 butterfly keyboard" where users have been sharing their experiences since Apple updated the design.
Re:Cool, journalism for tech support (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Cool, journalism for tech support (Score:5, Informative)
You know, not everyone who uses a mac is a whiny millennial.
Indeed. I have a MacBook, and I am a whiny boomer.
Several people in my office use MacBooks and ALL of them have problems with sticky keys, so it is not an uncommon problem. Sometimes turning it over and shaking the laptop while tapping the key will clear the problem, but sometimes the stuck key is permanent.
The worst key on my laptop is the "w", so I just try to rephrase sentences to avoid w's, or I just use an external keyboard (as I am doing now).
The week turnaround for the repair seems like it is intentional just to discourage people from doing it. It should take about 30 minutes, and could be done at the Genius Bar while you wait.
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The only way you'd have a 30m turnaround on these keyboards if an all-out system replacement. The keyboards are tack-welded to the case in about 50 locations. It's nuts.
I'm rather sick of this pursuit of thin at all costs. Give me something useful and use that extra few mm for more battery, not less. I strongly suspect it's Ive who's behind this continuous pursuit toward two-dimensional computing.
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You know, not everyone who uses a mac is a whiny millennial.
The worst key on my laptop is the "w", so I just try to rephrase sentences to avoid w's, or I just use an external keyboard (as I am doing now).
The week turnaround for the repair seems like it is intentional just to discourage people from doing it. It should take about 30 minutes, and could be done at the Genius Bar while you wait.
Their repairs generally take about that long. It's annoying, but it's free. Makes more sense to do the repair than wonder about with malfunctioning laptop.
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Mac's are status symbols for looking at, not for actually using.
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Therein lies the solution. To implement, you will need a claw hammer, a footstool and a couple of 6 inch spikes. With the Apple logo facing out, get up on the stool and nail the device firmly to the wall about 6 feet up in a conspicuous place so its awesome industrial design can be fully appreciated by everyone in the room.
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"It just works" is the byline of Apple products
That hasn't been true since about the iPhone 4 days. I figure that is roughly when quality started going really south (the obvious iTunes case which was always a disgrace aside).
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"It just works" is the byline of Apple products
That hasn't been true since about the iPhone 4 days.
It's never been true.
Just use the touch screen. (Score:2, Funny)
If the keyboard isn't working then just use the touch screen.
If apple really got it's way (Score:1)
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Keyboards are a solved problem. (Score:1)
Ever since Cherry [wikipedia.org] has been making keyboard switches, there is no reason to use anything else.
Buy one. I recommend Blue. Plug into your computer. Throw away old keyboard, whatever it was.
Problem solved.
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Since we're talking about laptops, it must be mentioned that some models (not all) in MSI's GT series use mechanical keyboards.
Also, Cherry is not the only game in town. There's also Matias (Alps-like), Topre (capacitive), Unicomp (buckling springs), and so on.
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I rather like the Topres on my hhkb pro
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That's annoying to take with you with the lappy when travelling a lot.
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Cherry switches are indeed fantastic (I too prefer blue).
However they are no longer the only game in town. Razer now do their own line of mechanical switches, and I've found them to be just as good. Razer Blackwidow keyboards with green switches are truly beautiful for typing.
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Cherry has been making keyboard switches since the 1960's.
The Cherry MX key switch was introduced in 1983 already.
It would be more fair to say that there has been a revival in mechanical keyboards in the last eight years or so.
Back in the '90s and early naughties, Cherry made the switches mostly for special-purpose keyboards such as point-of-sale, military etc.
Keyboards aren't the only problem (Score:3, Informative)
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Re:Keyboards aren't the only problem (Score:4, Insightful)
People who clean up dog shit for a living probably aren't dog lovers forever.
You're typing wrong! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:You're typing wrong! (Score:5, Insightful)
And here lies a problem for Apple fans. They think that their fandom is opposed by a fandom for Samsung mobile devices.
Which is wrong. People don't fanboy Samsung products. They just use them.
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The problem with this kind of discussion is that you're making generalizations about how other people use their devices.
Truth is, you don't know.
...and you certainly haven't met the gaggle of galaxy-gear wearing geeks around me. Fanbois with the latest toys from Samsung exist...
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People don't fanboy Samsung products. They just use them.
That's one of the better slogans I've heard from a Samsung fanboi.
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Mac OS X is superior to Linux and Windows, that's why.
You spelt awkward piece of shit wrong.
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They aren't. What you're seeing is Apple fans complaining to Apple and being ignored. A lot of Apple people are looking to move outside the Apple ecosystem because there's quite a lot of worry about the future of Macs and macOS in general. These articles complaining about the keyboards and the lack of refreshes of macOS desktop hardware are people trying to get the message to Apple to please fix their shit.
People are also complaining about the iPhone's high prices, and the iPhone XR was possibly a reaction
Apple used to have really good keyboards. (Score:5, Interesting)
Form over function rules these days, it seems.
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Leave it to an AC to think there was ever an "Apple ][e", and then comment on it while acting knowledgeable. Nope. It was an Apple
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I'm old enough to remember when chiclet keyboards were a thing on low-budget computers, and how much people hated them. When laptops started using them almost exclusively, lots of people I know cursed them. Personally, I still can't use a laptop keyboard. They SUCK.
Only Apple could think the design was so great, that they made them standard even on their ultra-expensive desktop computers, where thin profiles and limited key travel isn't desirable in the slightest.
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Have you tried a Thinkpad ultrabook keyboard? They are very thin, maybe a millimetre or two more than a Macbook, but the keyboard are excellent. Decent amount of travel and feel, usual Lenovo quality and robustness, and very easy to replace if you spill something on them.
Repair yourself (Score:1)
The first step in Reparative Therapy is to get rid of all Apple devices. Only then can the repairing truly begin.
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I still have three iPods, three SE/30's and I think a Quadra 650. Oh, and a Powerbook 165c.
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As for Apple, they are overpriced and overrated junk.
FTFY
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I suspect the same thing that happened to Microsoft is is now happening at Apple, i.e. corporate politics and not the custom
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We'll know if that's true when they finally unveil their so-called "low-cost MacBook Air replacement" laptop. If it also has those fucking butterfly hinges, you'll hear about a lot of people dropping Apple and switching to Windows and Linux.
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The MBP kills me. What kind of "Pro" product won't let you upgrade even the memory or the hard drive? After 3 years, they'll clearly have much faster, larger NVMe SSDs that would breathe new life into the laptop. But no, they made their own custom interface, and do weird things with the very few 3rd party options on the 2015 models. Newer models won't even let you swap them out. They've ripped out all the useful ports (gig ethernet!) with just a pair of thunderbolt and usb ports and require dongles for
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I have an early 2011 MBP. When that thing dies buying a new Apple MBP will be a big step backwards in usability and enjoyability. So I'm already paying more attention to Linux and laptops from other brands to get used to the fact that one day I will be forced to leave my beloved MacOS behind.
The same holds for my iPhone and iMac BTW.
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I stopped caring about this. The hardware retains its value quite well. When I want to upgrade, I simply sell the machine and get a new one with the specs I want.
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I think whoever was responsible for this keyboard screw-up is reluctant to admit it, and Tim Cook is not man enough to call them out.
I think what happened, is that after the keyboard debuted (in the 12" MacBook, in 2015), they thought they could get the reliability up. They figured they'd simply chip away at the problem until they're near the original keyboard its reliability numbers. But that turns out to be a lot harder.
I have the feeling that is happening elsewhere as well. Look at how the CPUs are developing, or the RAM size. SSDs seem to keep improving in Apple laptops, but progress on other components is a bit... lackluster.
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oh? which laptop do you have that is available from multiple vendors?
I normally agree with you but this is an asinine comment.
Not that uncommon at all (Score:2)
I own and use a 12" MacBook and a 15" MacBook Pro. Both have intermittent sticky key issues. On the 12" the comma stayed down for a couple of months and Apple refused to recognize this, because when they inspected it the key magically went back up. Not sure I have the patience to go fix it if they replace the keyboard and the same problem repeats. Will wait for a better fix.
Using external keyboards for now.
I am such a lucky bastard.... (Score:1)
Things like this at Apple make you ... (Score:1)
... wish even more Jobs was still alive. Cook can't kick ass like Jobs did and never will be able to fire the lousy management that decided crappy is good enough for today's high end Apple hardware just because it's cheaper. We will sadly witness the slow demise of Apple ....
Near Zero Resale Value (Score:2)
With the serious keyboard quality problem in the current Apple laptops, the resale value will plummet to near zero on these models. Who wants to spend much to take on some other user's problem?
Might be overblown as an isuse, but ... (Score:2, Interesting)
It's still a valid complaint.
I work for an employer who bought dozens of these new Macbook Pro 13" models to deploy to our creative professionals. So far? I've only had one person complain about keyboard issues, and he was one of our I.T. guys. (To be honest, he's kind of rough on his gear anyway. His Windows laptops he's had in the past are always scratched and dented up and covered with stickers, etc.)
I have one of these new Macbook Pros too, and although I don't use it as my primary machine, I do take
Right... (Score:2)
Alternatively, not a few people have decided that overpaying for average-at-best and generation-old-at-worst hardware isn't necessary. I'm not saying they've finally realized that Apple treats non-mobile users as second-class customers, they just have no real reason to upgrade until some arbitrary OS update isn't available for their computer because the sales guys w
No, you really are "using it wrong." (Score:1)
Really easy fix - just tell the user not to treat their laptop like a fucking place mat in a greasy spoon diner. I've had at least a dozen personal Apple laptops over the years and tested and worked on thousands more. Never had a key go bad on any of mine, and any time I've ever seen a problem with a user's keyboard, they were 99% of the time a slob who spilled food crumbs and who-knows-what-else into their keyboard and track pad. If you insist on treating your precious technology like a baby's bib, then ge