Please create an account to participate in the Slashdot moderation system

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Printer The Courts United States The Military Technology

Judge Blocks Release of Blueprints For 3D-Printed Guns (nbcnews.com) 401

U.S. District Judge Robert Lasnik issued a temporary restraining order Tuesday to stop the release of blueprints to make untraceable and undetectable 3D-printed plastic guns, saying they could end up in the wrong hands. Defense Distributed reached a settlement with the federal government in late June allowing them to freely publish the 3D files. NBC News reports: "There is a possibility of irreparable harm because of the way these guns can be made," he said. Congressional Democrats have urged President Donald Trump to reverse the decision to let Defense Distributed publish the plans. Trump said Tuesday that he's "looking into" the idea, saying making 3D plastic guns available to the public "doesn't seem to make much sense!" Eight Democratic attorneys general had filed a lawsuit Monday seeking to block the federal government's settlement with Defense Distributed. They also sought the restraining order, arguing the 3D guns would be a safety risk. Earlier today, Senate Democrats introduced two bills addressing 3D-printed guns. The first bill would make it illegal to publish 3D-printed gun blueprints. The second bill would require weapons to include at least one metal component with a serial number to make them traceable. Downloads of the 3D-printed gun blueprints have been suspended until Cody Wilson [the owner of Defense Distributed] reviews Lasnik's order. It is unclear how many times the blueprints were downloaded, but some news outlets say the online manuals have been downloaded thousands of times and posted elsewhere online.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Judge Blocks Release of Blueprints For 3D-Printed Guns

Comments Filter:
  • bittorrent (Score:5, Insightful)

    by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @09:16PM (#57046022)
    Hasn't this stuff been on Bittorrent for years? That's like trying to put a genie back in a bottle. If you don't want to see it, don't search for it on a Bittorrent search engine named after a harbor for rogue sailors. Also, it's not as if diagrams of firearms aren't in every encyclopedia and "How Things Work" book. Might need to ban libraries and machine tools too. I don't personally care for guns, but this order is a bit of a silly joke.
    • Eventually BitTorrent will not be routable on the Internet. Don't think it will happen?
      • Hasn't happened yet :D
      • It won't.
        • Re:bittorrent (Score:5, Informative)

          by 110010001000 ( 697113 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @09:40PM (#57046112) Homepage Journal
          Sure it will. After all think of the children/terrorists/copyright holders. Computing is more walled off than ever before. It is only a matter of time before only approved devices and software are allowed on the Internet. This already happens with the vast majority of mobile traffic.
          • Re:bittorrent (Score:5, Interesting)

            by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @11:12PM (#57046502)

            Computing is more walled off than ever before.

            False. I got access to the Internet in 1984, when 99.99% of the public had no access, and there were severe restrictions on what you could say or do. Commercial activity was illegal. I got my first domain in 1990, after filing plenty of paper forms and explaining to the US government why I needed it, and what I was going to do with it.

            I helped set up an office in Germany in the early 1980s, and we had to go to the post office to get a permit to operate a modem.

            • False. I got access to the Internet in 1984, when 99.99% of the public had no access, and there were severe restrictions on what you could say or do.

              Really? Who exactly was doing the restricting? This is the first I'm hearing of this.

              Commercial activity was illegal.

              Can you cite a statute? I know of no such law, and I'm pretty sure such a law never existed.

              • Re:bittorrent (Score:5, Informative)

                by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @01:34AM (#57047032)

                Really? Who exactly was doing the restricting?

                The federal government prohibited commercial traffic over any NSF (National Science Foundation) funded network, which at the time included most of the Internet backbones. The "no commercial use" restriction was not repealed until around 1990.

                • Yeah,
                  but the internet also existed outside of the US, and there never was such a restriction.
                  Why would it? You pay for the "phone" line ... what you do with it, is your business.

              • by Aereus ( 1042228 )

                You see, it was this little thing called ARPAnet funded by the Department of Defense and later the National Science Foundation. Commercial traffic wasn't allowed on it until sometime in 1990. Laws had nothing to do with it. I remember even into the mid 90s .com/net was $200/yr for registration and .org was $100 and you had to prove you were weren't using them for commercial purposes still. (only org)

            • and we had to go to the post office to get a permit to operate a modem.
              Then you are probably the only one who did that ...
              I know no one who went for a permit ... we simply plugged them in.

  • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by bongey ( 974911 )

      SCOTUS hinted in the Trump travel ban ruling that they were considering putting limits on injunction powers of judges. SCOTUS can set policy for judges.

  • Which if you ask me kind of lets the cat out of the bag on the NRA's purpose. They're not a gun rights lobby, they're a gun manufacturers lobby. And I don't see them taking kindly to the prospect of just anyone being able to manufacture their own firearms. Yeah, yeah, I know, you can barely shoot 5 rounds before it's ready for the junk heap. But give it 20 years and we'll see. And industry lobbies definitely think long term.
    • by El Cubano ( 631386 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @09:45PM (#57046124)

      Trump tweeted opposition to 3D printed guns

      Not really. Trump has tweeted opposition to lots of things, say illegal immigration. His tweets left no doubt in anybody's mind that he was opposed to it. On this subject he said, "that doesn't make sense." That is not opposition. That is hedging. After all, he is a business man and has become a politician. He is waiting to see which way things go in terms of public opinion and more specifically with his supporters.

      Which if you ask me kind of lets the cat out of the bag on the NRA's purpose. They're not a gun rights lobby, they're a gun manufacturers lobby.

      I do not see how the two are incompatible. In fact, manufacturers are likely aware that if they oppose things like 3D printed firearms, they will anger their customers. The same way that Starbucks kicking out the two black men (in Philadelphia, I think) angered lots of their customers even though it has nothing at all to do with their product. Yet, their customers expect the company to act a certain way. Gun owners would be the same way and would not take kindly to gun manufacturers opposing 3D printed firearms. Besides, those are not really competition for them.

      And I don't see them taking kindly to the prospect of just anyone being able to manufacture their own firearms. Yeah, yeah, I know, you can barely shoot 5 rounds before it's ready for the junk heap. But give it 20 years and we'll see. And industry lobbies definitely think long term.

      In general, companies would rather that their customers not have the option to switch away. Even health insurers (hello Obamacare, until the risk pools were gutted) and teachers unions (school vouchers == bad) are the same way. The difference is every body has to have healthcare (it's the law) and for the most part you don't get a choice of school for your kids. Firearms are totally discretionary for practically every individual who owns them, so the gun manufacturers cannot be as obnoxious as the teachers unions and health insurers.

    • by swb ( 14022 )

      The "gun manufacturing lobby" is such a tired line of BS. I don't even know what it means, nobody is being forced to buy a gun and you can't have gun rights without guns which means gun manufacturing. Gun manufacturing and gun ownership have a lot of interests aligned, it's entirely sensible that the NRA supports gun owners and gun makers.

      I don't understand the hype about 3D printed guns. Real guns are easier to get and actually work. You still need ammo. Plus improvised guns have been around for a lon

      • The "gun manufacturing lobby" is such a tired line of BS. I don't even know what it means

        The lobbyists and advocacy groups representing gun manufacturers. In general they want rules that encourage people to buy lots of guns. Restricting 3d printed guns would qualify though I don't know if they had anything to do with Trump's tweet or if it's just Trump doing something random.

        nobody is being forced to buy a gun and you can't have gun rights without guns which means gun manufacturing. Gun manufacturing and gun ownership have a lot of interests aligned, it's entirely sensible that the NRA supports gun owners and gun makers.

        Some, but not all. For instance, the gun manufacturing lobby would probably like more restrictions on private gun sales, though they're very leery of pissing off their customers.

        I don't understand the hype about 3D printed guns. Real guns are easier to get and actually work. You still need ammo. Plus improvised guns have been around for a long time -- zip guns -- the only thing novel about this is the "3D" part.

        Plus isn't 3D printing still not quite ready for prime time unless you're a pretty serious hobbyist? Not unaffordable, but putzy and technically challenging to produce good output.

        I'm more worried about pipe bombs than 3d guns.

        Not ready yet, but as the previous poster sai

      • I think the logic they are using is that gun manufacturers similar to "big tobacco". The idea is that "big gun" is tricking people into buying guns. 3D printed guns will take revenue away from "big gun". The thing is that there has been a long tradition of making and customizing firearms. People have made a business of tricking out guns (trigger jobs, patterns, etc).

        Making a gun at home has been fairly easy without a 3D printer and the results are MUCH better than a printer can produce. Will metal sinter
        • by swb ( 14022 )

          "Tricking people into buying guns"?

          I think the dynamic is probably different -- more like the world seems a lot more unhinged than it used to be, and so many states now allow concealed carry. To me that alone explains most gun demand. And the unhinged part isn't an NRA conspiracy, it's the output of the mainstream media. If anyone is to blame for tricking people, it's the media.

          The only way I buy into this concept further is that there's just more gun makers and diversity of firearms to choose from. The

    • by mentil ( 1748130 )

      Most people making '3d printed guns' are only printing the lower receiver, and buying a standard mass-produced stock/upper receiver/magazine. Furthermore, the lower receiver doesn't need to be particularly strong, and can thus last longer than 5 rounds even if made of 3d printed plastic.
      It is now possible to purchase small mills specifically made to finish full-metal lower receivers, those can withstand shooting hundreds of rounds, at least. Forget 20 years from now, it's available today.

    • Which if you ask me kind of lets the cat out of the bag on the NRA's purpose. They're not a gun rights lobby, they're a gun manufacturers lobby. And I don't see them taking kindly to the prospect of just anyone being able to manufacture their own firearms. Yeah, yeah, I know, you can barely shoot 5 rounds before it's ready for the junk heap. But give it 20 years and we'll see. And industry lobbies definitely think long term.

      Bwa! Yeah, it's Trump's fault, lol. And the NRA.

      If only Dems ran everything, and their pressure groups, we'd all be 3D printing guns left and right.

  • Let's ban sharp plastic objects, because bad people can use them to do bad things!

    If judges really want to do ban something dangerous they should ban the publication of information about re: CRISPR. It's more likely that someone will create a homegrown virus via CRISPR than kill lots of people with plastic guns.

  • by El Cubano ( 631386 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @09:28PM (#57046060)

    Can machine-age law be applied fairly to rapidly developing technology? Is [printing a gun] the same as [manufacturing] it? Is he being strung out in a Kafkaesque nightmare as a warning to others? Some [government] officials concede that it's too late to keep [it] from spreading and say that intimidating distributors is the only way they can hope to deter code makers.

    Those words were written in US News and World Report more than 23 years ago about the investigation into Phil Zimmerman for having given away PGP. Here is the real text (with the original words I changed in bold):

    Can machine-age law be applied fairly to rapidly developing technology? Is putting software on a computer the same as exporting it? Is he being strung out in a Kafkaesque nightmare as a warning to others? Some intelligence officials concede that it's too late to keep cryptography from spreading and say that intimidating distributors is the only way they can hope to deter code makers.

    I only had to change 8 words to make it a nearly perfect fit for the situation today.

    I know it is fashionable to hate guns here, but the reality is that lots of bad people have guns and have a complete disregard for the law. So, ridiculous laws (we have plenty, just look at Washington DC and California) only serve to ensure that law abiding citizens cannot get guns. It is the same as it was for cryptography. Criminals were getting it and using anyway, only people who respect the law were actually harmed by the law.

    As far as guns go, there are plenty of people who legitimately fear for their lives because of abusive relationships, living in bad neighborhoods, and countless other reasons. They need to be able to protect themselves because the police so often cannot or will not. There are lots of problems to fix, but more laws will not do the job when we so often fail to enforce the laws that we have now.

    • Those words were written in US News and World Report more than 23 years ago about the investigation into Phil Zimmerman for having given away PGP.

      And...I forgot the link: https://web.archive.org/web/20130616165334/http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/950403/archive_010975.htm [archive.org]

    • a bit more gun regulation it's anything but fashionable to hate guns on /.. Nerds love guns. I'm not going to waste time arguing whybut believe you me, /.ers love their guns.

      On a side note, there's plenty of people who legitimately fear for their lives, can't or won't handle a gun (or don't want one in the house with their children) but would like very much to keep their abusive ex spouses away from guns. Several of them get killed every year because it's damn near impossible to keep (perfectly legal)
      • I get where you are coming from. However, people intent on doing harm will do harm even without firearms. In just recent memory that I can recall there was a stabbing attack at a nursing home in Japan [wikipedia.org] (19 dead, 26 injured), a sword attack in Sweden [wikipedia.org] (3 dead not counting the attacker, 1 injured), and the truck attack at Ohio State [wikipedia.org] (11 to 13 injured, depending on how you count).

        As far as firearms related incidents, there are plenty of incidents where the perpetrators should not have had access to firearms i

        • Mostly I agree with your point but one correction. Sandy Hook was not a failure by any federal or local government agency, policy or procedure. The shooter was autistic, not mentally ill. He was not a prohibited person under the law. And on top of that, the firearms he used were not his, they were his mother's lawfully obtained and owned weapons. And when he decided to commit mass murder he first killed her in order to take those weapons.
      • by mentil ( 1748130 )

        How about we make it (relatively) legal to shoot others with a special projectile that is harmless at first, but causes death a couple days later... unless the shooter changes their mind in the interim (and administers a unique antidote, uses their private key to deactivate the explosive, etc.)? It'd work as a dead-man's switch so they wouldn't be 'out-gunned' despite not having instant stopping power, and would encourage people to reconcile instead of making permanent mistakes in a split second.

        • Sure, we can market those magical rounds next to the Unicorn feed and Hyperspace drives at the local Walmart. If I'm in a defensive situation I don't want to wait two days for my attacker to be stopped. The 100 lb coed does not want her rapist to have two days to complete the rape before magically falling dead.

          A firearm fires a small dense mass into the target, if target is a living being it exerts force of impact (that can kill on the spot if in the right location) and as the bullet penetrates the target
          • by mentil ( 1748130 )

            You're right, death is not the goal. However, giving a criminal two days to calm down and realize they're going to die unless they find and reconcile with their victim is a good motivation for them to turn themselves in. It's also a good motivation to not rape someone after they shoot you, since the law will have been modified so that they're not held responsible for your death; thus, your survival depends on not making them want you dead. The projectiles could have a code on them that can be connected to t

  • by Anonymous Coward

    At what point does Congress clean house? What law exactly was violated?

    Replace "guns" with whatever you choose in the statement "There is a possibility of irreparable harm because of the way these guns can be made" and it ends up being true, such as alcohol, cars...you name it.

  • by schwit1 ( 797399 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @09:32PM (#57046088)

    A federal court has issued a prior restraint on speech (it’s attempting to block the spread of information; it is not blocking the lawful home manufacture of firearms) that is already thoroughly and completely moot. The files are out. They’re all over the internet. They’ve been copied and reproduced. The judge’s order can’t change that fact.

    Moreover, Defense Distributed and the Second Amendment Foundation are hardly the only sources for online files or blueprints that enable a home manufacturer with a 3D printer to make a gun. I’m honestly unclear what the court is trying to accomplish here, aside from targeting the Trump administration and/or targeting a disfavored private company.

    https://www.nationalreview.com... [nationalreview.com]

    NB: Any gun that would be undetectable by a metal detector would be illegal under the aptly named Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988.

    • by mentil ( 1748130 )

      Perhaps they're trying to save face, doubling down on their idiocy and insisting they were in the right all along. It works for narcissists.

  • This is an BIG 1ST and 2ST amendments issue.

  • or Why the Judge Is Wrong and Abusing His Position While Being So.

  • Tempest in a teapot. (Score:5, Informative)

    by johnnys ( 592333 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @10:10PM (#57046224)

    Anyone with the use of their hands and a few tools from the local hardware store can make a "zip gun" from scrap metal. It doesn't take a genius to make such a gun, which will be just as effective as what comes out of a 3D printer. This is a well known and common criminal practice, for many years now. Sure, it's illegal but it happens all the time.

    But now we have a new way to make a "zip gun": Instead of a few bucks worth of hand tools and some scrap we need a computer and a 3D printer, which costs a LOT more! And usually the sort of people who have such equipment probably have something better to do than making stupid 3D printed zip guns.

    But this is so terribly scary that the media has to freak out and the gummint has to ban it. Lots of money, time and effort wasted over this non-problem. But the media and the politicians all have to keep us scared or we might start thinking for ourselves and they can't have that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    "Author Harlan Ellison describes the zip guns gangs used in 1950s New York City as being made from tubing used in coffee percolators or automobile radio antennas, strapped to a block of wood for a handle. A rubber band powered the firing pin, which the shooter pulls back and releases to fire."

    • The problem with your argument relating to improvised firearms is that while they've been around for ages, they haven't been getting that much better. What 3D printing offers right now may be roughly equal in quality, but 10 years down the line, maybe less, you're going to be able to produce some much more dangerous weapons that can actually withstand being fired repeatedly. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if 10 years down the line we've got fully 3D printed AR-15s and AKs (which famously only have a
      • by jonwil ( 467024 )

        When you have companies like https://www.80percentarms.com/ [80percentarms.com] selling AR-15 kits, 80% lowers and jigs that don't require any expert machinist knowledge and which can produce guns that are far superior to anything you can make even with the highest quality 3d printer currently available, I dont see anything to suggest 3d printing somehow makes it easier for people to get guns. (or for bad guys to get guns).

        • The thing about the stuff sold by companies like 80percentarms is that the "remaining 20%" parts they don't sell are the heavily regulated critical and hard-to-manufacture and parts like the bolt and bolt carrier. We're talking about businesses that are only legal because they just don't sell the parts necessary to make an actually working firearm as multiple critical components are simply missing in their catalog. Only way to make a working firearm from their parts is by cannibalizing a working firearm of
          • by jonwil ( 467024 )

            What do you think things like https://www.80percentarms.com/... [80percentarms.com] is?
            It looks like a bolt carrier assembly (including bolt) to me.

            You can buy something like https://www.80percentarms.com/... [80percentarms.com] plus one of their jigs and make a working AR-15 from it just by using the jig to complete the remaining 20% of the 80% lower included in the kit.

            • Well I guess the gun laws in the U.S have more loopholes in them than I thought (thou I suspect states like California have plugged this) because in most of the world critical components like bolts and bolt carriers do require you to go trough a similar amount of checks and paperwork as buying a whole working weapon and people hence just don't bother frankensteining their weapons. Putting on some finishing touches or even just manufacturing critical components from scratch yourself doesn't give you a pass f
      • The Defense Distributed plans already include an AR Lower receiver. Your argument is moot.

        There is already at least one 3D printer design that prints all but the circuitry and a few very basic metal parts for itself. The circuitry needed is an arudino or raspberry pi or similar micro-computer board a couple cheap electric motors available at any hobby/electronics shop. And the metal pieces are readily available at any hobby/electronics/hardware store.

        In short you can already print more 3D printers. You
  • According to FOSSCAD's github they've been publishing materials for 5 years. I'd say Cody is quite correct regarding the harassment, he's being targeted. FOSSCAD makes 3D printable firearms which is available online without restriction.
  • If they actually want to ban something meaningful, they shouldn't be going after plastic guns. They'd need to go after CNC metal gun parts [ghostgunner.net]. Those are just as untraceable, maybe moreso, and they're actually useful.

    Since they aren't doing that, they're just trying to look like they're doing something. They aren't.

  • http://www.andrewkaram.com/pdf... [andrewkaram.com]

    United States v Progressive, Inc. already handled this, with the United States settling and dropping its case, and The Progressive publishing how to make a thermonuclear weapon in WIDESPREAD PRINT November 1979.

    All assholes in office need to realize we've got prior case precedent against this prior restraint. Then they need to go the fuck back to school.

    • Yep, because releasing plans for building a nuclear bomb is totally the same thing as releasing plans for something someone can just hit print on their own (or their friend's) $500 printer.

      To be clear, it's a stupid ruling in the face of free speech and given the rest of the gun culture, but not quite as stupid as your comparison.

  • Knives bought at any store that sells knives occasionally end up in the wrong hands, too.
  • by JoelKatz ( 46478 ) on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @11:28PM (#57046560)

    Is there any recognized exception to the first amendment that allows the government to prohibit the distribution of accurate information on the grounds that it's dangerous to use or misuse? If not, and they're asking for a new exception to the first amendment, the minimum we should expect is a precise description of the contours of the exception.

    • Well, there is ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulation), but that only applies to an enumerated list of technologies with military applications, and I believe that the settlement mentioned in TFS includes a determination by the State Department that these gun schematics are not within that domain. We had the same argument over PGP, also decided in its favor, and certainly the conventional blueprints of guns have been freely publishable this whole time: http://www.sightm1911.com/blue... [sightm1911.com].
  • Whats next on the ban list?
    Books?
    Software?
    Math?
    Crypto?
  • Didn't the horse already bolt five years ago? I seem to remember New South Wales police posting videos on YouTube showing how easily 3D printed guns from Defense Distributed blew up, https://www.smh.com.au/technol... [smh.com.au]
  • Its already legal to make guns in the US without a license as far as I can tell, you only need licenses if you are selling or distributing guns or are making things that are restricted such as full-auto guns.

    Its also legal to post instructions online on how to make your own gun (again as long as they aren't for making things that are restricted).

    Why is a 3d printed gun any more of a big deal than any of the other ways you can build your own gun? What makes a 3d printed gun any different to, say, buying an A

    • Bingo, Heck for about $200 you can buy an epoxy resin kit that will allow you to mold several 100% Lowers. And the Epoxy resin isn't expensive to keep making more.

      Just mold your completely legal lower, buy rest of the unregulated parts and assemble your AR's. All legal requiring no special tools other than the mold that comes with the kit.
  • by Tjp($)pjT ( 266360 ) on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @02:10AM (#57047126)
    Precedent exists that if useful in a lawful manner it shouldn’t be prohibited. I can use the design files and a 3D printer creating metal components to craft the firearm in metal.

    The judge is ruling the government incompetent after the state department took years to reach this ruling. The judge cannot legislate from the bench. This ruling overrides the law in force and as determined at length.

    The ruling violates the long standing legal precedent of the lawful construction of firearms by individuals. One can make a pistol, rifle, revolver, etc. legally for ones own use. Legislating a tool that facilitates the action of making ones one firearm seems a blatant violation of those rights.

    The plastic firearms are already deemed a novelty. They don’t reliable fire even one shot. Yet there exist other methods to achieve the same results. I can form the same firearm design from bulk plastic. And it will be stronger. I can more easily create metal firearms more cheaply that are more reliable. $20 and a trip to a hardware store and I can craft a slam fire shotgun that requires less skill to fabricate.

    The Second Amendment to the US Constitution clearly says, “...shall not be infringed.” Not it’s a good idea not to, not maybe don’t infringe, not it’s ok to infringe in these circumstance. It says plainly “shall not be infringed.” So the government will have to show an overwhelming reason to infringe.

    The case of PGP encryption mirrors the same legal process in it’s ITAR case. The government lost. They will lose this fight too.

    The ruling amounts to prior restraint.

    Activist judges are defiling our checks and balances by creating law from the bench. Impeachment of the judge is the remedy in all cases.
  • Unless it's about guns, or something.
  • 1: First Amendment. WE WIN! If the Federal government has ruled on 1A protection, they're screwed.
    2: On The Internet. WE WIN! Once something's on the Internet, it's pretty much FOREVER. Hell, the original DefCAD stuff has been knocking around since the site was originally taken down.
    3: They're essentially trying to ban CAD files and 3D printers. That's just NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

    I think it's time to accept that trying to criminalize everything just because criminals could use it for nefarious purposes

A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention, with the possible exceptions of handguns and Tequilla. -- Mitch Ratcliffe

Working...