Video Raises Concerns About Excessive Thermal Throttling On 2018 MacBook Pro With Intel Core i9 (macrumors.com) 177
Last week, Apple announced new MacBook Pros, including a 15-inch model that supports Intel's 6-core 2.9GHz i9 processor. YouTube Dave Lee managed to get his hands on this top-of-the-line device early and run some tests, revealing that the laptop gets severely throttled due to thermal issues. 9to5Mac reports: Dave Lee this afternoon shared a new video on the Core i9 MacBook Pro he purchased, and according to his testing, the new machine is unable to maintain even its base clock speed after just a short time doing processor intensive work like video editing. "This CPU is an unlocked, overclockable chip but all of that CPU potential is wasted inside this chassis -- or more so the thermal solution that's inside here," says Lee.
He goes on to share some Premiere Pro render times that suggest the new 2018 MacBook Pro with Core i9 chip underperforms compared to a 2017 model with a Core i7 chip. It took 39 minutes for the 2018 MacBook Pro to render a video that the older model was able to render in 35 minutes. Premiere Pro is not well-optimized for macOS, but the difference between the two MacBook Pro models is notable. Lee ran the same test again with the 2018 MacBook Pro in the freezer, and in cooler temperatures, the i9 chip was able to offer outstanding performance, cutting that render time down to 27 minutes and beating out the 2017 MacBook Pro.
He goes on to share some Premiere Pro render times that suggest the new 2018 MacBook Pro with Core i9 chip underperforms compared to a 2017 model with a Core i7 chip. It took 39 minutes for the 2018 MacBook Pro to render a video that the older model was able to render in 35 minutes. Premiere Pro is not well-optimized for macOS, but the difference between the two MacBook Pro models is notable. Lee ran the same test again with the 2018 MacBook Pro in the freezer, and in cooler temperatures, the i9 chip was able to offer outstanding performance, cutting that render time down to 27 minutes and beating out the 2017 MacBook Pro.
2018 MacBook Pro - Alaska Edition (Score:5, Funny)
For maximum performance, use outside during the winter.
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"IT department have been informed that there are performance issues with the standard laptop issued to all employees due to thermal problems. As a stop-gap measure to resolve this problem, we are turning down the temperature of the office air-conditioning by 20 degrees. All staff are advised to wear thick woolly clothes including gloves and hats. Arctic jackets will be provided upon request."
Re:2018 MacBook Pro - Alaska Edition (Score:5, Funny)
On the bright side, that might make the windows visible at the new Apple campus. Whether by condensation or frost.
Re:2018 MacBook Pro - Alaska Edition (Score:5, Funny)
So "you're holding it wrong" became "you're holding it at the wrong location".
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no..its a new OS to blame (Score:1)
Re: 2018 MacBook Pro - Alaska Edition (Score:1)
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You're holding it wrong. Hold it in the freezer compartment.
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I'm sure there is an opportunity for someone to come up with a refrigerative cooler plinth that you can sit the laptop on that will be able to supply cool air for optimum performance. Combined with a suitable battery pack, you will be able to have optimum performance on the road too.
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it's not what "we" wanted.
it's what they told us that we wanted because IT IS CHEAPER TO MAKE IT LIKE THIS. there's more profit. it's just cost optimizing while making it more expensive.
we didn't ask for unexpandable everything maximally cost minimized crap that in theory might work faster than the previous model in some situation if it's stuck in a freezer.
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Or go with Ryzen instead of i9. Intel's 8 core desktop parts are clearly running hot.
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The i9 in the MacBook Pro is the 8950HK, a six core mobile CPU, not an eight core desktop part.
The fastest Mobile Ryzen currently available is the 2700U, a four core CPU. Between the lower core count and fewer instructions per MHz than Intel, it is not competitive in performance with the 8950HK. A slightly higher performance 2800H has been leaked but not officially announced; it's still a four core CPU but with higher clocks and a GPU with more stream units enabled. Those tweaks still won't make it competit
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Re: 2018 MacBook Pro - Alaska Edition (Score:2)
And fewer USB ports!
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It has only one button, and they press it before it leaves the factory.
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There is this thing called closing the lid and this handy thing called a power cord which allows you to place it inside the freezer and close the door. It should fit in most home refrigerator freezers.
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Apple just needs to release the portable freezer accessory.
He's holding it wrong (Score:3, Funny)
The spokesperson clearly explained that you're supposed to hold it with your fingers inside thick gloves (but not too thick, because those keys are tiny) because you're supposed to hold it inside a walk-in freezer.
Usage (Score:1)
Isn't this why everyone spends money on a desktop for work and gaming and goes cheap on a laptop to watch videos and read news? Or are people doing it wrong?
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They are more netbooks, tablets, phablets than laptops. They are designed to be media consumption devices, not for software development.
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No, it's why engineers focus on thermal design as an important issue when designing laptops. Or at least, they're supposed to. I have a high-end laptop and it rarely throttles, even under constant heavy load. Why? Because it wasn't designed by amateurs. Stop making excuses for crap. This isn't rocket science, this isn't something new that humans are only just starting to figure out; engineers have been successfully designing laptops for given thermal loads since probably before you were born. If you adverti
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To be fair, the Apple engineers may well be capable of doing the necessary design; it's possible the discussion went something like, "Well, we could do A, B and C but it's going to delay production by a year" but the business/marketing managers said, "But we want to be able to announce it offers performance level Y by next month" and went ahead. Either way, it isn't acceptable. Apple have the cash to absorb a launch delay like that, but they are probably afraid of longer-term erosion of public perception of
To enjoy the product fully (Score:3)
Benchmarks now need a temperature setting.
Don't know what to do (Score:2)
When I started work here, I had the choice between a Macbook Pro and a Surface.
The Surface had Win10 and came only in 13 inch. So I went with the Macbook.
Now don't get me wrong, it's quite usable, but there are so many annoyances that I might just as well have bit the bullet and gone with Win10.
When it's time for new hardware, I just wonder whether there'll be a Surface that doesn't try to be a Macbook or perhaps I'll be allowed to buy from another brand.
Bang for buck wise, neither option makes me tingly al
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Not surprised (Score:2, Insightful)
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Then don't buy it.
I'm trying to understand the problem here. One is looking for a laptop that runs their favorite flavor of Linux, has long battery life, USB-A ports, SD card slot, go out and spend many kilobux on an Apple, then complain it does nothing what they wanted it to do and cost too much money. At what point in this did it become anyone's fault but their own?
I didn't watch the entire video you linked to but the guy started out with saying he wanted to run MacOS but was experimenting with Linux.
Wow (Score:2)
They sure are making it easy for me to get a Dell and throw Mint on it. Looks like my last MPB will be my 2011. This is simply unacceptable.
Technical Comment (Score:2)
yeah, yeah, so thin ... but:
Isn't this the point of the eGPU strategy? To offload real computational work onto a dedicated device that is properly chassied for the job?
The real question might be why spend the money on an unlocked i9 instead of an eGPU. If you want an ultrathin laptop that can rip through any video and not get hot you might be living in 2029.
Re:Technical Comment (Score:4, Interesting)
yeah, yeah, so thin ... but:
Isn't this the point of the eGPU strategy? To offload real computational work onto a dedicated device that is properly chassied for the job?
The real question might be why spend the money on an unlocked i9 instead of an eGPU.
This... I've got a 2015 MBP, but I'm running 3 monitors off a GTX 1060 in an external case. At this rate, I'm thinking my next machine should be the lightest, smallest, longest battery life laptop out there for traveling purposes, with a pair of eGPUs at my home and office.
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Once again (Score:5, Informative)
If you want to do real work for extended periods of time, you get a desktop.
Unfortunately, Apple has crippled their desktops so you're out of luck there as well.
It's almost as if Apple doesn't understand what a computer is for.
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It's almost as if Apple doesn't understand what a computer is for.
They don't even know what a computer is [youtube.com], so how would they know what it is for? ;)
Re:Once again (Score:5, Insightful)
It's almost as if Apple doesn't understand what a computer is for.
Based on how many they still sell, I'd say they know exactly what a computer is for; their target audience*
* = Actual computer skill not required. Packaged by fashion, not function. Contents may settle after shipping.
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They still seem to have a lot of momentem in the graphic design/print. I don't get it frankly, they're rapidly changing print system leaves them with some annoyances, Adobe was slower to embrace GPU acceleration on them, they lack affordable mid range solutions.
All of that, they still seem to be the more popular option.
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The thing is, there was a significant time where OSX was more of a nuisance than Windows (transition to Intel had significant times when you couldn't be sure what software would run ideally, same for transition to OSX).
Multiple times where print driver broke between versions
Print drivers in general suck on OSX (eg large format Epson and HP printers)
This is more prepress related, but Inability to print to PDF with acrobat distiller is an issue
Lack of GPU accelerated filters in Photoshop was an annoyance
64 bu
Re: Once again (Score:2)
I've yet to find an OS that "just works" whether that be Windows, Linux or Mac OS. They're all infuriating in different ways. For example UI designers might one day realise that when the user is typing, the UI should not interfere with that by giving focus to any other windows or dialog boxes.
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My biggest frustration on OSX (posting to hopefully be corrected) is the lack of copy paste in Finder Windows.
On Windows with explorer and Linix with any file manager I've used, I can select the address bar, copy that text, then paste it into any open or save browser. I use this dozens of times a day, and in OSX, I need to browse my open and closes each and every time (the location changes).
Also, less frequent, but very useful, is being able to type the address into the file management window (for example w
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I suspect the reality is that they think they understand their market because they haven't run out of momentum yet and they are continuing trends that worked in the past, but that in fact they are burning goodwill rapidly and it will bite them soon.
Apple's market is people who want a computer as a means to an end, and to not have to do a ton of research or matiannce.
How this plays out in reality is their sales are highly sensitive to word of mouth but not so much to actual reviews or technical specs, as tho
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Apple computers are for writing Apple apps for Apple iPhones.
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It's what people use to make the apps you run on your iPad.
Counterpoint - two reviews that had no issues. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Counterpoint - two reviews that had no issues. (Score:5, Interesting)
Austin Mann didn't do any real performance tests at all beyond some HEVC video conversion that on the latest hardware is done almost entirely on the GPU (and doesnt take that long)
Craig Hunter's review quite clearly shows once there is a CPU bound task working on >= 3-5 cores in his particular workload the expected per-core performance scaling demonstrated on comparable CPUs in the iMacs is not achieved. He kind of gives this a pass since is comparable to their previous (equally shit) design, but this is due to thermal throttling. The only other thing he benchmarks is eGPU workloads which is not relevant to the issue at hand.
There is no doubt that Apple could have delivered a better thermal solution, a better keyboard, more ports, lower engineering costs, lower assembly cost, a more competitive supply chain, (and probably a lot of other better t hings) if they were not after the eternal conquest to build something that is so stupidly thin for a group of users who are asking for the opposite.
Mojave (Score:2)
The Mojave desert can get as hot as 130 degrees. Clearly, Apple Mojave is more than just a marketing moniker - it's an aspiration!
Apple is losing it (Score:4, Insightful)
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and result is something that cannot keep up with its own engine
This is nothing new. There are a large number of devices on the market which thermally throttle. That said it is all Apple's fault since they were the ones that fetishised thinness. The Macbook Air performed horribly compared to laptops with the same CPU on CPU bound tasks for this reason. They aren't the only ones either. I get a 40% speed improvement on CPU bound tasks by pointing a fan at the back of my Surface Pro 3. The benefits are less good on the SP4 where I only get a 5% increase but none the less
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New iPhones 8 are thicker and heavier than the 7...
Uh, after Bendgate, making that form factor slightly thicker probably isn't a bad idea. Just saying.
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Now:
- Tim, we tried a lot, but we can't implement this feature without adding that thickness / removing that thing / losing this
- Ok, you did your best, let's add that thickness / remove that thing / lose this
Before:
- Steve, we tried a lot, but we can't implement this feature without adding that thickness / removing that thing / losing this
- Try more.
Concerned (Score:3)
My deity Apple, look where you are now. Your phones are too thin and fragile, your laptops are too thin, your keyboards are too thin and now your laptops are too hot too. Nobody sane wants your stuff anymore! I think my 13" 20111 MacBook Pro was the best laptop you ever made. Why not take a good look at it and learn from that?
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You may complain all you like, visitor from the future, but Apple does not currently have a time machine.
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Hahaha, I hadn't spotted that one! Drat :)
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He probably typed it on an Apple keyboard.
Apple pricing (Score:2)
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You forgot to factor in the Apple-Tax, then it adds up.
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Not surprising. And have you seen how much they charge for extra soldered-in RAM? They have a captive audience.
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In the video at 0:23, he configures the machine from i7 to i9. The price jumps by $300, but the price difference between i9-8950HK and i7-8850H is only $188.
Different CPUs, different sockets. Different sockets means a different logic board. What are the chances the i9 logic board costs more?
m
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iCaddyshack (Score:2)
"...ran the same test again with the 2018 MacBook Pro in the freezer, and in cooler temperatures, the i9 chip was able to offer outstanding performance, cutting that render time down to 27 minutes and beating out the 2017 MacBook Pro."
So, the answer is to put all the fanbois in the freezer?
Correct me if I'm wrong Sandy, but if I kill all the fanbois, they're gonna lock me up and throw away the key. - Carl Spackler
Apologies to Godwin (Score:2)
So, the answer is to put all the fanbois in the freezer?
Using a furnace had already been taken...
No news here (Score:2)
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I'd guess it has more to due with a lack of proper heat sinks than vents. There's only so much you can do with such a thin chassis.
According to Apple, they are not at fault (Score:2)
It's Intel's fault you know.. That I9 chip dissipates too much heat for the heat sink and fan.
(sarc off)
Seriously, I think that this is a symptom of Intel's recent FAB issues. Where they not trying to move to a smaller process and having issues getting their yield up high enough to turn a profit? I'm guessing that Apple designed for the expected power/performance and got disappointed. Then the marketing decision was made to release the I9 based systems regardless of the heat buildup performance roll bac
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Yeah, there's honestly no reason to put an i9 in a laptop form factor. But even their desktop computers have roughly the same airflow and use laptop parts.
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duh (Score:1)
It's not just the new i9s. (Score:1)
When I replaced a former software engineer at a startup, I was given his old MacBook Pro with an i7 in it. During unit tests, the i7 got so hot that it was thermal throttling down to about 15% of its normal capacity. I was picking up the laptop and flailing it through the air to make the unit tests run faster since as far as I can tell the aluminum chassis of the laptop was being used as a heatsink for the CPU.
Finally, I disabled thermal throttling at the OS level (I'd installed Ubuntu rather than MacOS a
Perfect Example (Score:2)
This is a great example of why you don't buy the brand new shiny object the day it's released.
( Applies to all things electronic, games, etc. )
Be patient and let the unpaid beta-testers find all the problems with it first.
Will save you a lot of headache.
Not a new poblem (Score:2)
MacRumors Double-Speak (Score:2)
[quote]Premiere Pro is not well-optimized for macOS, but the difference between the two MacBook Pro models is notable. [/quote]
Article about the latest model has thermal issues and they randomly take a swipe at the software used in testing. Yet, isn't the issue going to be a problem for all software?
Sites like these can't help but be bias. Triggers me when writers let it leak out like that.
You are all missing the point (Score:2)
Think of them like dumb blondes, no one actually cares if they are incapable of doing a job, just so long as they look pretty and in a couple of years you can replace them with the next new model.
Hey Tim, takes your eyes off the bloody small screen, yeah you know the iPhone. LOOK for gods sake.
I have used Mac since the mid 1980's, I have now bought a PC laptop and run Linux on it.
I am am about to replace 200 Macs w
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That's not true, my first MPB in 2007 killed any other laptop at the time. I was more than willing to pay the $2k+ for it.
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That's not true, my first MPB in 2007 killed any other laptop at the time. I was more than willing to pay the $2k+ for it.
I agree. I bought a 2013 MBP after a succession of Thinkpads. At the time I bought it you couldn't get another laptop with the hidef screen, aluminium chassis, battery life, weight and SSD for a comparable price. It was expensive, but you got a lot of stuff you couldn't get otherwise for that price.
In the time since, other laptops have caught up on those features, but Apple prices kept their premium. For me the value is not there now, but I guess they have decided that appealing to pro users just isn't wort
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Yes, and it was the same with my 2011 MBP.
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Apple has form on this too. There was a model back in the Core 2 days that had way too much thermal paste installed so overheated. And then they undersized the charger to make it smaller, relying on the battery to provide extra power under load (and thus shortening its life, and it was glued in of course.
Many of their products seem to be a mixture of marginal design for aesthetic purposes, user hostile policies and poor testing.
Re:Apple's lack of focus (Score:5, Interesting)
-2007
When the 15" MacBook Pro had a frame with hinges attached to it instead of them sensibly being attached to a backplate, so they constantly broke like paperclips.
-2008
When the graphics chips were dying on all the Apple computers. Apple was forced to help by a class action lawsuit. How that worked? They put an Apple diagnostic disc into your computer to decide whether they may or may not help you, based on whether the test passes. Of course, it can't work if you don't have a functional graphics chip.
-2009
"Unibody" 15" MacBook Pro. Except it was made out of 2 pieces stuck together with adhesive. Not only that, it was so well designed with such build quality, the fan exhausting the heat these MacTurd Pros built up, was positioned to exhaust into the adhesive directly. End result: Computers falling apart everywhere.
-2010
A1286 model with the 2850 board, which was failing because the sensors would keep the fans at 1000 RPM when FinalCut Pro was rendering and running a video for 20 minutes straight.
-~2010
iPhone 4 comes out. $600 phone that you could not hold in your hand without dropping a call. Apple is not at fault, it's your fault for not holding the phone correctly on your fucking face!!!
-2011
820-2915 board comes out. Throttling the CPU out of the box with no dust, at 70 fahrenheit room temp. A $2000 machine, throttling and functioning worse than a shitty $300 Acer at that time.
-2013
Apple TrashCan Pro gets released. 2015 models start having major graphical issues that may cause distorted video, no video, system instability, freezing, restarts, shut downs, or may prevent system start up. AMD's FirePro D500 (high-end model) and D700 (built-to-order) GPUs are affected. Apple launches repair program in Feb 2016...
-2011-2013 line of MacBook Pros including Rentina line between 2012-2013 having premature death caused by design flaw with the GPU, which lead to a Class Action Suit, which lead to a repair program only 4 years after the facts.
-2016
Apple shitPhone 6 and 6 Plus with the "Touch Disease" due to shitty soldering system of the Touch IC chips.
-2018
MacBook and MacBook Pro keyboard design flaws which only get a repair program officiated 8 months after mass complaints.
https://theoutline.com/post/5052/apple-admits-its-computers-are-broken
I can keep going and going and going.
Apple experience and quality.
Apple users: The wife who gets beaten at home and calls it love.
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My last Macbook Pro was 2006. And it had a Core Duo CPU and was obsoleted only a few years later due to not having 64-bit EFI support.
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Is that you, Louis [youtube.com]?
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Now tell me the computer manufacturer(s) who have never had issues with their computers. Go on, I'm waiting.
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Guess I'm just damn lucky. I've owned a couple of their phones. The first one the only problem was after years it was dropped on a cement garage floor and managed to land right on top of a stone. It still worked, however. I still use the replacement. It's been many years, still holds a charge well. Way better than my Android. It works so much better that I'm considering blowing off android entirely. Companies simply refuse to update their phones and other android stuff. I moved to an Ipad 4 for that reason
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The operating system is based on BSD, which makes it as good as it is. But Apple's contributions make it worse, up to the point where the OS itself is becoming unsuitable for some tasks.
To add to your long list of example, there are timing issues with certain video cards which make it unsuitable for precise tasks. Quite a few software vendors have issued warnings against the latest OsX versions.
I've encountered them in my work with computer vision as applied to robotic CNC-cell control. My wife has encou
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Sounds hot.
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Are you taking double penetration?
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Apple products become more and more a fashion statement rather than something you actually use. It's like complaining that you can't fit your family luggage into the Ferrari, or that your Gucci handbag can't hold your stuff. That's not what they're here for.
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apple does not understand the definition of pro. For Gods sakes they added pro to the end of ipad.
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They needn't be. Not only do they not have to find workarounds for the shortcomings of their machines, the problems that do arise can trivially be solved with the aid of Google, simply because the user base is large enough that it's almost certain someone else already solved the problem. If only because you CAN actually solve the problem without having to send in your system, accept the loss of all your data and pray that the fix isn't going to brick your system with the next update of the OS.
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But at least it's thin! And shiny! If you buy Apple you deserve everything you get. "Apple - for people who don't understand what's inside their computer."
How many Apple PC/laptop owners understand how a computer works, and what components are actually inside one? I bet it's far fewer than PC owners.
It just works, albeit slower than it should..
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