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IBM Input Devices

'Why I Use the IBM Model M Keyboard That's Older Than I Am' (yeokhengmeng.com) 220

Posted by EditorDavid from the legacy-systems dept.
Slashdot reader yeokm1 recently installed Linux on a 1993 PC. But in a new blog post he lists every keyboard he's owned over the last 12 years -- to explain why he's now typing on a 5.3-pound Model M keyboard from 1987 that's older than he is, "with its legendary buckling-spring switch." It'll probably last me the decades to the day that keyboards should become obsolete... It is sad that with all the advancements in computing, the one piece of equipment that we use the most to interact with our computers has regressed technologically in the name of costs. We don't usually expect to be using 30-year-old hardware on a daily productive basis but the IBM Model M keyboard is that exception.

Today, I don't really care about fancy features like great aesthetics, RGB backlights, media keys and extra USB ports. I just need something that gives me great tactile feedback, be durable, enable me to easily swap keys to fit my Programmer Dvorak layout. The Model M fits my needs perfectly.
"Really can use this as a weapon," the blog post jokes. There's even a video "to show clicky sound difference" between two different versions of the Model M -- and in true geek fashion, he even removes the casing screws to see whether the inside had rivets or bolts.

The original submission drew a tip from long-time Slashdot reader Spazmania based on his own experiences with the Model M. "The thing I most like? There are little plastic caps on the keys. When they get dirty I can pop them off and run them through the dishwasher."

Any other Slashdot readers want to share their own experiences with Model M keyboards?
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

'Why I Use the IBM Model M Keyboard That's Older Than I Am' More

'Why I Use the IBM Model M Keyboard That's Older Than I Am'

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  • I've been using Model Ms for 20 years (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ZorinLynx ( 31751 ) on Saturday July 07, 2018 @10:41AM (#56906548) Homepage

    I have two in use right now, at home and at work, and a couple of spares, all made between 1988 and 1991. No other keyboard feels quite like this, and I plan to keep using them as long as I am typing.

    I work as IT staff at a university, and it's always fun to see students come into my office and notice my keyboard. "Why are you using such an ancient keyboard?" they usually ask. And I just say that they don't make them how they used to. Occasionally another fan of Model Ms comes in and I get a fist-bump or a "Sweet! Model M!" from them.

    Then I think and realize that these college students are all significantly younger than the keyboard. I'm getting old!

    • Re:I've been using Model Ms for 20 years (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ZorinLynx ( 31751 ) on Saturday July 07, 2018 @10:44AM (#56906564) Homepage

      Oh! I forget to mention the day that a new faculty member arrived, and when I went to his office to set up something, I noticed he had a Model M with a few keycaps missing.

      I have a SHITLOAD of spare keycaps because I ended up with a whole bunch of Model Ms, some of them not working, a couple decades ago. So I quietly went over there and replaced the missing keycaps when he wasn't there.

      Eventually he figured out it was me by asking around (I'm well known as "that Model M guy") and thanked me. It was awesome to help out a fellow Model M fan.

    • Re: I've been using Model Ms for 20 years (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      The IBM model M is a very very nice keyboard. I have 2 myself both from 1986. I myself am from 1989.
      But! Expensive mechanical keyboards CAN compete with the model M.

      I have a Nanoxia NCore Retro and a Roccat Ryos MK Pro and they are both just as good but both have better looks...

      I am a sucker for both quality keyboards and lights... the ncore retro have no lights but it does have the Victorian typewriter look

      Both keyboards are very expensive.. especially the ncore retro

      But Quality vs cost? In that regard th

      • The IBM model M is a very very nice keyboard. I have 2 myself both from 1986. I myself am from 1989. But! Expensive mechanical keyboards CAN compete with the model M.

        I have a Nanoxia NCore Retro and a Roccat Ryos MK Pro and they are both just as good but both have better looks...

        I am a sucker for both quality keyboards and lights... the ncore retro have no lights but it does have the Victorian typewriter look

        Both keyboards are very expensive.. especially the ncore retro

        But Quality vs cost? In that regard the model M wins hands down..

        I am the AC above... small correction.. I am from 1979 not 1989.

    • It is great that you have one (or two) that work for you, but it isn't for everyone. First, a LOT of modern machines don't have a PS2 port and the PS2->USB adapters don't work perfectly. Another is the lack of a "Windows" key. I scoffed at that one myself for a long time, and then it became a real hinderance as a lot of shortcuts are only usable via said key.

      Repair is not easy and rarely perfect. Once the springs and buckles start to where, it is a countdown on the life of the keyboard. And if a sprin

      • Reasonable quality PS2->USB adapters work fine. Poor ones... work poorly.

        The lack of a Windows key is a nuisance. Especially when using it with a Macbook.

        Maintenance = buy a few extras (even now they're not terribly expensive) and when the current one finally gives up the ghost, get out a new one.

      • On my keyboards, I pop off the Windows keycap just because it is so annoying to have that damned start menu pop up if you accidentally click on the thing.

      • WTF does a Windows key do anyway? Serious question out of curiosity as I've never used one. I have used some modern crap keyboards with one on brief occasions (I usually use a Model M) but never bothered to find out what it does, and whatever that is I have never missed it. In any case I object to having one of Microsoft's trademarks on my desk and in my face. I guess keyboard makers pay MS a royaly to have it there.

        • It gets in your way.

          Seriously, I *never* use it (I use ), and every once in awhile I hit it accidentally, which is a real annoyance.

          I also wish the CapsLock were a Control key, and the left and right control keys were not there... I know, there's a RegEdit fix in Windows (and probably s.t. similar in Linux), but in certain corporate environments that's locked down.

          I have other complaints about modern keyboards, which only got worse since 1983 or so, but you young twerps probably don't want to put up with t

    • Only Keyboards we have in the house. I presently use an M built on 13 Jan, 1982 that I bought new in a box at a parking lot sale for $5.00. Best investment ever for the best keyboard ever designed and built!

  • It makes the noise (Score:4, Funny)

    by alvinrod ( 889928 ) on Saturday July 07, 2018 @10:45AM (#56906568)
    It makes that sweet, sweet noise. It's the Stradivarius of keyboards.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Z00L00K ( 682162 )

      I prefer the KeyTronic keyboards over the rest.

  • I still have an M13, the model with the Trackpoint in the middle of the keyboard. When doing work that isn't on my laptop, that's the one I tend to prefer. Makes it easier to avoid moving your hands to use the mouse when necessary.

  • I hate with the darkest and deepest of hatred the users of all these super clicky keyboards.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by jwhyche ( 6192 )

      While I don't have the same amount of love and affection for these keyboards as you do, I never really liked them ether. I do agree that after the fall of civilization alien archaeologist, a long with the Ford F-150, will be digging them up and using them. I just never liked the feel of the keyboard or the noise they made.

      I

  • Similar (Score:5, Informative)

    by dskoll ( 99328 ) on Saturday July 07, 2018 @10:51AM (#56906592) Homepage

    I don't have an actual Model M, but I have the clone made by Unicomp, both at home and at work. Nothing else will do!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by arth1 ( 260657 )

      Cherry keyboard here. No, not just Cherry switches, Cherry keyboard. They're a bit more expensive, but well worth it.
      And, it doesn't have a Windows key, and has the ctrl key where it's supposed to be, left of the A. (What marketing idiot thought that caps lock was more important than ctrl and decided to switch them around?)

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dskoll ( 99328 )

        I've given up the Ctrl fight. :( I was messed up for months when the switch happened, but now I'm used to it.

      • Cherry keyboard here. No, not just Cherry switches, Cherry keyboard. They're a bit more expensive, but well worth it. And, it doesn't have a Windows key, and has the ctrl key where it's supposed to be, left of the A. (What marketing idiot thought that caps lock was more important than ctrl and decided to switch them around?)

        ahh cherry mx switches.. red, brown, black, blue, white, green etc.. expensive, but just as good as the old IBM keyboards. my ncore retro uses cherry mx white and my roccat uses cherry mx red those 2 and my 2 IBM model M's are my best keyboards, then I have some older CBM keyboards that are also pretty nice... the rest? crappy crappy cheap rubber dome .. my ncore retro is my primary keyboard when I write novels. most top end mechanical keyboards allows the disabling of windows keys.. the ncore and rocc

        • Indeed. I really like my little Cherry G84 keyboard. Wait, what do you mean, Cherry ML switches suck?

          Damn. Even within the elite, there's snobs.
           

      • Oh, I'm jealous... I just posted (somewhere above) my rant about the Windows key and the misplaced keys. And now I find someone who actually _has_ what I want.

        Guess I've reached that point where the going gets tough... and the tough go shopping.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by arth1 ( 260657 )

          Not sure whether you still can get the ones with CTRL in the right spot, but you can always reassign the keys. Cherry keyboards aren't super-cheap, though...

    • I used to use a Unicomp but for reasons of desktop space switched to a programmable Poker keyboard with blue switches. I personally prefer the snap of the Cherry switches, but the Unicomp is still an awesome keyboard. The programmable option was important to me, because I need to have Ctrl on the Capslock key and not all mechanical keyboards allow this.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Just wanted to say that the model M is great, but it's hardly the be-all and end-all of keyboards. There are loads of great boards out there, both old and new.

      There are so many types of switch, so many layouts, if you are really interested you can find the perfect keyboard for your tastes.

      Or if not the Unicomp models are great.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by jwhyche ( 6192 )

        No to mention that my taste in keyboards seems have changed as I've gotten older. I like my keyboards quiet. I'm a big fan of the logitech K360 and the K780

      • There are loads of great boards out there

        There are now. Ten years ago you couldn't get a newly made keyboard with decent tactile feedback if your life depended on it. The Norton Omniclick keyboards from the 80's had long since died so if you wanted a decent click it was: find one of the old ridiculously reliable model M's.

    • Same here. One Unicomp at home and at work. Both are in the 18-20 year old range and both work fine.

  • Having an actual Model M is pointless unless you want to feel superior to other mechanical keyboardists.

    My keyboard is a ~$40 no-name with 'blue' keys. It works just fine. It has a white backlight for dungeon coding sessions.

    • It's not pointless when it cost me $5. I picked mine up at a local thrift store.

    • There's something cool about having such a vintage keyboard that still works perfectly, and better than most of the contemporary equivalents.

      It's true; if you just want a mechanical keyboard there are a lot of modern options out there. But having an actual vintage 30 year old keyboard is nifty. Also, the contrast of having such a 30 year old keyboard plugged into a sleek, modern looking iMac is amusing. :)

  • Wait till he tries a Model F with those *original* buckling springs... (there is a revival project getting close to shipping, see https://www.modelfkeyboards.co... [www.modelfkeyboards.com]

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by yeokm1 ( 5219085 )
      Actually I did try a Model F as shown in my blog post. I prefer the capacitive buckling springs of the Model F but the "modern" Model M layout won out in the end.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Megane ( 129182 )
        I have a decent stack of Model M keyboards that I acquired from thrift stores back in the late '90s, including a few space saver, but the main reason I don't use them is that I mostly type on a Mac, and I need the command key. USB isn't much of a problem because adapters are a thing. Is it possible to transplant individual keys like Cherry key mechanical keyboards? Someday I might want to try adding command keys and put in a microcontroller to make a USB version.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Megane ( 129182 )
          I forgot to mention that I also have two Northgate Omnikey keyboards of different layouts. The code ROM is even socketed in those, and I dumped them years ago. That's what I really want to put a USB micro into.

        • I remap command to alt on my mac. It's in the system preferences.

          The model M has plastic key caps that fit over each key. You can take them off, move them around, whatever you want.

          https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp... [arstechnica.net]

        • If you search the web for "soarer's converter" you'll find info on a gadget you can build for less than $25 which will convert your Model M boards to USB, and also add full programmability - put any key anywhere, switch right ALT to CMD, etc.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by arth1 ( 260657 )

      www.modelfkeyboards.com. uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate is only valid for the following names: acmilan-online.com, autodiscover.acmilan-online.com, cpanel.acmilan-online.com, mail.acmilan-online.com, webdisk.acmilan-online.com, webmail.acmilan-online.com, www.acmilan-online.com

      If they can't even get that right, why would I think they can get keyboards right?

  • If you want similar quality but new try them.
    This if you are hardcore enough: https://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboard-4-ultimate/

  • Would Love Buckling Spring on Modern Layout (Score:5, Informative)

    by mykepredko ( 40154 ) on Saturday July 07, 2018 @11:09AM (#56906656) Homepage

    The old IBM Model E (PC, PC/XT) and Model F (PC/AT & PS/2) were fantastic keyboards - I still have a couple of Model Fs (25+ years old) that I use periodically with nary a problem.

    When I say that I would like them with a modern layout, I'm really talking about the Logitech "Wave" and Microsoft "Natural Ergonomic" Keyboards - they work with my old, arthritic hands better than a flat, traditional layout. I would be willing to pay $1,000+ for one of these keyboards with the Buckling Spring although WITH the capacitive sensors of the Models E & F rather than the mechanical switches of the M. The capacitive sensors just never wear out.

    If you do find an old IBM keyboard, you should only try to use a Model F or M, the Model E does not have the bi-directional communications capability of the later keyboards but has the same connector as the PC/AT Model F. While the Model E keyboard uses the same pin functions, electrically they are a bit different and you could burn out a device (ie the USB adapter noted in the next paragraph) that is plugged into it if the device can't handle both.

    You will need a PC connector to USB adapter. These can still be found (10 years ago, you could get them for basically nothing and often came with keyboards) but they may not provide full functionality (ie controlling lights on the keyboard). If you get one and it doesn't seem to work right, then look for another manufacturer's product. On this point, I have not been able to find a PC/AT to USB adapter for years. I have one that is wonky and that has lead me to wire the PC/AT DIN socket to a PS/2 connector and use a PS/2 to USB adapter.

    Finally, IBM considered the best keyboard ever made to be the Model G which was designed for the Displaywriter around 1988. It was not compatible with the Model F but had what IBM considered the closest to perfect touch (along with an operating life that was basically forever without any maintenance).

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Megane ( 129182 )

      These can still be found (10 years ago, you could get them for basically nothing and often came with keyboards)

      The ones that came with keyboards and mice are nothing more than pin adapters for devices that can already speak both protocols. The ones you need for a Model M are the dongle-style adapters that have a PS/2 keyboard and mouse connector.

      • Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear - I meant the dongle types that convert the PC/AT keyboard communications (which was used with the PS/2) to USB.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by klui ( 457783 )

      Model Fs are better than Ms because they feature n-key rollover whereas Ms are limited to 2 keys. Ms are actually membrane-based; Fs capacitance-based.

      Only the XT/AT keyboard has the modern layout and I hate the original 5150 layout.

      I currently have several M15s (split keyboard from Options/Lexmark) at home.

    • The mode G/DisplayWriter gets my vote for the very best keyboard ever. If only the modules weren't an inch and a half high. But it was so similar to the M that it could be made shorter and be useful.

      Truly though the DisplayWriter was the best keyboard ever.

  • Threw Them Away :-( (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jvp ( 27996 ) on Saturday July 07, 2018 @11:13AM (#56906666)

    I know, it's a travesty. And I'm a criminal for doing it, too.

    I attended Clarkson University in the early 90s which was awash with IBM hardware. Students were "given" (we purchased them through tuition) PS/2s, and the labs all over campus were full of IBM RS/6000s. Model Ms were everywhere. Literally. When I left Clarkson, I had a few of them, brand new, still in their boxes. I kept them for a long time, and even tried making them work properly with those awful 6-pin-to-USB adapters. But at the time (this would be late 90s), those adapters were trash and didn't work... well.

    My mistake: I chucked the keyboards. Off to the local electronics recycling center. I think I got rid of 5 of them, if I'm not mistaken. And yes, I should be punished for my crime.

    Today, I use the modern version of the M, built by Unicomp with full USB functionality. They're not *perfect* copies of the original M, but they're damned close. And they still annoy my co-workers. ;-)

  • My 1985 122 key Model F weighs more than eight pounds. So there!

    • yup, 8.5 pounds. I have the black one with grey keys so it looks as tough as it is. Family hates the sound of it but my fingers love it. Today's keyboards are garbage.

  • I like the compact size of the Thinkpad keyboard, and the overall feel of it. I have ended up using standalone thinkpad keyboards for years now, and am currently using https://www3.lenovo.com/us/en/accessories-and-monitors/keyboards-and-mice/keyboards/KEYBOARD-US-English/p/0B47190. It doesn't have that "click" feel, but works very well, and is portable enough to bring with me wherever I go.

  • It's durable.
    It's heavy so it doesn't slide around my desk.

    You probably spend more time touching it than you do your spouse. Do you want it to be cheap crap?

  • When the early membrane keyboards came out, I got one because my Model M was driving everyone in my house crazy at night. No other keyboard have felt the same but no other keyboard can drive people to want to bash my head in.

    • There are mechanical keyboards that are a lot less noisy than the Model M, for instance based on Cherry MX brown switches. Granted they are still noisier than a membrane keyboard but have much better feel and durability.

    • My former cubicle co(lleague/worker)s hated me typing on clicky keyboards since I type fast like a machine gun. Even my own bosses! They tell me to use quieter keyboarders, but then I told them I won't do well in my jobs. :(

  • If you can't beat a spammer to death with it I won't type on it. Model M FTW.

  • I don't like the old IBM keyboards because they are so loud and the force to type is too high. But I do love the construction, quality, removable keycaps, non-yellowing plastic, and replaceable cords.

    Nowadays I am stuck having to use a "split" keyboard with raised front due to CTS and RSI. I am constantly amazed at how much difference it makes. If I am forced to use a traditional keyboard (like on a laptop or someone else's desktop), I am in pain in just 10 minutes or less... sometimes lasting hours aft

  • Nothing beats buckling spring. It's all I've used for 30 years or so. I used to have to use one with a ps/2 to USB adapter. I bought one of the first ones that was native USB.

    Sure, they're loud. They're heavy. You can't really take them apart easily to clean. But they are the best keyboard for your fingers and wrists. They are worth the extra cost.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jon3k ( 691256 )

      Nothing beats buckling spring.

      Topre. I own quite a few keyboards, including a Unicomp (buckling spring). My favorite is my RealForce 87U with Topre switches. Hands down the best switches, better than Cherry MX (brown, clear, red, black, green, you name it) and better than buckling spring. Most people that still clinging to buckling spring just haven't used a decent modern keyboard with modern mechanical switches. They've just used awful, cheap membrane switches in $10 keyboards.

      I highly recommend anyone who's interested in buckl

  • I did not have the pleasure to use the model M until I went to the university in 1989. Before that only model Fs. Not bad, but cramped... After I tested the Model M, I was hooked!. So, as soon as I could, I bought two.

    I have two (2) Model M Keyboards from 1988.

    Used them through and through (even flew one to Spain while doing my Masters, when every pound counted!). I find the sound helps me concentrate, and if the rate of typing is fast, is a good signal for my coworkers to not bother me.

    But in 2009, I bough

  • There seems to be a false nostalgia per the Model M concerning it's durability. Heavy and stout do not equal infinite lifetime.

    In the mid 1990s my first Model M flaked out on me so I would spend a bit of time at Weirdstuff Warehouse in Sunnyvale waiting on new old inventory to show up. I was literally buying them for $15 at that time.

    Then one day I went in and they had a Model M and it was offered at an outrageous price, as I remember, at least compared to what I had previously paid. That's when I quit b

  • They were very noisy, they had an ugly design, and they were prone to break. Key caps would come out easily and seemed to be printed cheaply. Back then we did not perceive those keyboards to be a premium product, rather the opposite.

  • I used to love the old Model M keyboards. For a long time, they really were better than all the rest -- other keyboards had a definite low point in the 80s and 90s.

    I don't feel that way anymore, though. Keyboards -- even the fairly short-throw models -- are now very good and require much less effort to type than the Model M (and clones). After a lifetime of typing (I learned to type on a manual typewriter, no joke) I have come to recognize that a light touch is both better for my hands and makes me a faster

  • There's no good reason to use an original IBM Model M. They will either be beat to hell or insanely expensive if original unused.

    The Unicomp models are made to the same specifications - Unicomp acquired the intellectual property. I've seen arguments that somehow the originals are "better", but never experienced that myself. You might make an argument about the very early capacitive design vs the vast majority that were made with dome switches. (The Unicomp design uses dome switches).

    It's unlikely many of th

    • There's no good reason to use an original IBM Model M.

      Except that they are built like tanks, will take lots of abuse and still function, and feel better than any keyboard I've used in more than 30 years. My 1987 model M looks like it's brand new and has given many years of trouble-free service.

  • Weapon (Score:2)

    by PPH ( 736903 )

    A good keyboard should be sturdy enough to beat a man to death with. And then use to write his obituary.

  • I find the regression argument rather confusing since it is not hard to get good high quality keyboards today, they just happen to be expensive. Kinda like how the Model M was expensive in its day too. All that has happened is that now we have a wider range of price points and quality instead of everyone having to pay a premium price for 'the company is probably paying for it' hardware.

  • I love my Model M keyboards. I used to love my Model M2 keyboards with Trackpoints... but their mouse buttons all wore out & broke down to the point of uselessness within 5-10 years, due to the poor design that attempted to simply graft them into the existing Model M shell (with new cutout to accommodate them below the spacebar).

    Unicomp technically sells replacements, but you can't use their replacements without ALSO replacing the stick... and sadly, THEIR stick isn't quite the same as genuine Trackpoin

  • I don't know why people think the Model M is all that. I think the best overall keyboard, is the classic "clickly/chicklet" keyboard from IBM, the Model 8923. They're still highly sought after and last forever.

  • Real die-hard keyboard geeks tend to favor the IBM Model F that came with the original IBM PC, XT and AT systems. They're built like tanks compared with the flimsy plastic Model M, and the key action is better. However, they do require a converter to use on modern PCs, and the key layout is kind of funky and takes a bit of getting used to.

    The other thing that has to be said is If you are willing to put in the time and money, today you can build a keyboard from readily available parts that (IMHO) beats th

  • I don't use a Model M because they make that infernal racket, the actuation force is too high, and the key travel is too long.

    If that's what you like, fine, but I hope I don't have to sit nearby.

    Back in my university days, there was one bank of terminals (yes kids, multiple students shared one computer!) that were always in use because they had great Hall-effect keyboards--sadly I don't remember the make or model.

  • I have to make do with a KB-8923 from 1990. It's pretty good though, well ahead of any other I've tried. I suspect the unavailability of anything with PS/2 ports to plug it into will lead to its demise before it actually fails. Courage!

    P.S. I would have posted earlier but needed two buddies to come round and help me turn it over to see the label.

  • Interesting read at http://www.tavi.co.uk/ps2pages... [tavi.co.uk] with further references. Windows keys never missed without Windows. ;-}

    Its sounds are the silver (machine gun rounds of) bullets to never have to share an (open-plan) office again.

    Comment written on the highest-serial-number IBM Model M known to exist in my country's layout actually (if Wikipedia's got this correct)...
  • I am 3 years old, and I am using an abacus which is older than your mom!
  • Where I worked long long ago we trashed all our old Model M keyboards. And I do mean trashed as in the can. My boss retrieved a few of them and took them home and that is something I regret not doing to this day. My wife went looking for some on eBay over a decade ago, but the best she could find were some Model KB's which, while good and is what I am using now, is not in the same league as the Model M. I have looked at and bought at least a dozen other keyboards over the years and use them on machine

  • The one on my 1987 Amiga A500. It's astonishingly good. I loved using the IBM Model M, but the A500 one is better. It was made by HI-TEK and I think gets called the Space Invader keyboard because of the shape of the plastic parts under the keys.

    I really wish I could buy one like that for the PC.

  • I never cared for either the Model M or the original IBM PC keyboard (similar feel, different layout). Too stiff and too loud for my taste. But if they work for you, use them; there is no reason to retire a piece of technology that works just because it's old.

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