Microsoft is Working on Technology That Would Eliminate Cashiers and Checkout Lines From Stores, Says Report (reuters.com) 253
Microsoft is working on technology that would eliminate cashiers and checkout lines from stores, in a nascent challenge to Amazon.com's automated grocery shop, Reuters reported, citing six people familiar with the matter. From the report: The Redmond, Wash.-based software giant is developing systems that track what shoppers add to their carts, the people say. Microsoft has shown sample technology to retailers from around the world and has had talks with Walmart about a potential collaboration, three of the people said. Microsoft's technology aims to help retailers keep pace with Amazon Go, a highly automated store that opened to the public in Seattle in January. Amazon customers scan their smartphones at a turnstile to enter. Cameras and sensors identify what they remove from the shelves. When customers are finished shopping, they simply leave the store and Amazon bills their credit cards on file. Amazon Go, which will soon open in Chicago and San Francisco, has sent rivals scrambling to prepare for yet another disruption by the world's biggest online retailer. Some have tested programs where customers scan and bag each item as they shop, with mixed results.
Microsoft Is NOT Getting My Shopping Data (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Microsoft Is NOT Getting My Shopping Data (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft is not in the business of data mining. Google, Amazon, Facebook, Apple, all ISP's, and all credit card companies are. You don't know what you're talking about.
So all those ads they have on Bing [microsoft.com] are just served up at random? Pro-Tip: Everyone is data mining.
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Microsoft is not in the business of data mining. Google, Amazon, Facebook, Apple, all ISP's, and all credit card companies are. You don't know what you're talking about.
Oh, so all of the telemetry data Microsoft collects is just for fun?
Given US corporations history of data mining, it takes a certain level of blind ignorance to assume Microsoft isn't doing exactly what every one of their competitors is doing, and for the same damn reason.
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I will grant you Google, Amazon and Facebook because we've seen it in the past, but show me where and how Apple are doing data mining about the individual users?
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Yes MS is in the data mining business (Score:2)
Microsoft is not in the business of data mining.
Bullshit they aren't. Bing gets its revenue from ads. Linked-In gets lots of money from data mining. Microsoft sells data mining tools [wikipedia.org]. Your faith in Microsoft on this topic is wildly incorrect.
Re:Microsoft Is NOT Getting My Shopping Data (Score:5, Interesting)
The two notable exceptions are Microsoft and Adobe. I began receiving spam at both of the email addresses I'd assigned to them. The Adobe one began getting spam shortly after they were hacked, so I suspect they didn't sell me out (at least not deliberately). The Microsoft email however got several waves of spam, about 4-12 months apart, indicating it was continuously being sold. It's remained quiet the last few years, but after my past spam experience with them I've been assiduously avoiding signing up for anything with Microsoft (e.g. all my Win 10 accounts are local accounts).
Make of that what you will.
Not shopping at any store with MS? (Score:3)
"I am not shopping at ANY store that has the Microsoft system in it"
I hate to break the bad news to you mate, but you won't be shopping anywhere then. 99.9% of point of sale front end systems (known as tills to non geeks) are microsoft windows based and have been for decades. Before that it was DOS with the occasional OS/2 based system. The backend could be linux or something else non windows, but tills almost exclusively run Windows.
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You can still purchase Microsoft Office outright and not use any cloud features. I enjoyed your Haddock-like rant, though.
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For the moment...
Purchase Microsoft Office outright? (Score:2)
Sort of . $149.99 (one-time purchase) gets you Office Home & Student 2016 for Win7 and later, includes Word, Excel, PowerPoint, OneNote but doesn't include Outlook or Access.
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lol and also lol (Score:2)
So customer takes two items off the shelf together, scans one, and puts them in their bag. Super difficult to catch.
Put a RFID tag with a UUID on every package that comes into the store. Sign customers in via various and/or appropriate methods, whether their phone or just an RFID sticker they can place on something else in their wallet. Scan customers aggressively on their way out, perhaps making them walk a circuitous path to enhance scan time and opportunity. Perform inventory scans frequently; since you
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Sign customers in via various and/or appropriate methods
So now I have to be validated just to enter the store?
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No, you'll just have an RFID implanted in one of the anterior lobes of your posterior. You need not do anything to be validated, it will all be handled for you. Oh, and don't get a suntan back there, it tends to make the RFID go a bit haywire and a red flag pops out just to let you know you have a problem.
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If it's going to let you just pick up items and leave the store then yes, it does need to know who you are to be able to bill you for the items you took.
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The customer does not 'scan' anything. There is a camera ( and in some cases a shelf sensor ) that understand who picked up what from where and automagically charge you for that item.
The only practical way to cheat the system is by picking up a low cost item, picking up a high cost item, and returning the low cost item in place of the high cost item. Even then machine vision would ultimately solve this problem.
RFID has never worked as a replacement because, as practical matter, when multiple individuals are
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Still too expensive, even at $0.25 an RFID tag. Given that billions of items are going to be purchased and sold, that price for an RFID tag gets multiplied by a billion.
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Supermarkets in the UK already get their customers to operate as checkout clerks in the supermarkets. Get the trolley to the checkout area, pick out each item one by one, put it through the scanner, and place it on electronic scales which correlates the item barcode with the weight. You only get to process the next item once the current item has been processed successfully. For security, certain items still have to be audited by a member of staff. Razor blades are usually in plastic boxes with a security ta
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Until you get every manufacturer of the items you want to sell to add them at the beginning.
Walmart has the chops to do that. If you want your product sold in a Walmart, you WILL do things the Walmart way. That includes changing your packaging because a 16 oz package of your product costs too much, so make it 13 oz for 10% lower price ... keep them prices rollin' back!
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So customer takes two items off the shelf together, scans one, and puts them in their bag. Super difficult to catch.
Put a RFID tag with a UUID on every package that comes into the store. Sign customers in via various and/or appropriate methods, whether their phone or just an RFID sticker they can place on something else in their wallet. Scan customers aggressively on their way out, perhaps making them walk a circuitous path to enhance scan time and opportunity. Perform inventory scans frequently; since you can do them by just walking around, they can actually be done continually.
I have shopped at a store that has a scanning app, where you scan each barcode and it records the item and price. When I am done I select checkout and it charges my debit card. On the way to, they scan the payment barcode from the app, double check my cart matches the receipt and out I go. It's a lot faster than waiting in line or self checkout.
One side effect of such tech is it allows vendors to change prices dynamically based on buying trends, for example if you notice more water is sold on hot days or on
Greed doing what Greed does best. (Score:5, Insightful)
Cashiers rank among the top jobs in the US by numbers employed. Is Microsoft also working on technology that will eliminate the problems they're planning on creating when they make millions of jobs obsolete? Not to mention the fact that a lot of consumer spending and business revenue depends on millions of people being employable.
Once again, Greed is doing what Greed does best; doing whatever it takes to create revenue quickly without giving two shits about any long term impact.
Cashiers add no value (Score:2)
Cashiers rank among the top jobs in the US by numbers employed.
It is true that a lot of people are employed as cashiers. This is unfortunate because the job of cashier is not a value added job. It doesn't make the product better, it doesn't improve the shopping experience, and it's a large cost to both the retailer and the customer.
Is Microsoft also working on technology that will eliminate the problems they're planning on creating when they make millions of jobs obsolete?
No and nor should they. You're typing this on a computer and you don't see the irony in your argument? Should Microsoft have been subsidizing Smith Corona typewriters because PCs reduced the need for clerical staff? Should Ford have bee
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Would that be like when we made millions of farm jobs obsolete by introducing tractors and combines and such? Or how about the jobs that were rendered obsolete when we replaced sailing ships with steamships? Or when airplanes replaced steamships as the way to cross the Atlantic/Pacific oceans?
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There was an interesting Jordan Peterson podcast recently where says the US military has determined if your IQ is below 83, you cannot add any value to the military. This turns out to be 10-15% of the population.
So while automation is great and all, how are we going to keep dumb people gainfully productive in society. Its a difficult problem.
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Yep, all those unemployed people can now be retrained as computer programmers...or something. They've merely been hiding their skills for this new opportunity.
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studen loans with no bankruptcy, trades being push (Score:3)
studen loans with no bankruptcy, trades being push down by schools, and to many jobs that want an college degree but then say people with college degrees don't have the right skills.
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Cashiers rank among the top jobs in the US by numbers employed.
when will they do something about that goddamned water so it doesn't run downhill all the time
you are just bitching, ignorant fool
There's not a damn thing you can really do to prevent water from running downhill, so your analogy is stupid and irrelevant. There is something that can be done to ready ourselves for a considerable shift in human employment. It's called proper planning. And you can bet your ass Greed will bypass any step that gets in the way of making money quickly.
And once again, people should learn from history. We've gone through several revolutions before. What everyone conveniently forgets is none of them were pa
I pay with cash (Score:3, Informative)
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I pay for things with Canadian Tire money. Let's just say, there's not a lot of places that get my business.
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Sure you do... (Score:3)
I pay for things with cash. If a business doesn't take cash, they don't get my business.
Really? You never write a check? Never use a credit or debit card? You make your house payment in cash? Pay your utilities in cash? You purchased your PC in cash?
Yeah I don't believe you are telling the truth. If you are then I kind of pity you.
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Many utility companies allow you to pay in cash through affiliated stores. Typically pharmacies, corner grocery stores, money transfer places.
Why not buy a PC in cash, especially used? It's a few-hundred-dollar purchase at most these days -- they've become a commodity item.
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Many utility companies allow you to pay in cash through affiliated stores.
I'm aware though few people actually do this. Most who do are people who cannot get a proper bank account or credit card.
Why not buy a PC in cash, especially used?
Because acquiring and carrying a wad of cash that large is more than a little inconvenient. I cannot remember the last time I walked around with more than about $200 cash on my person. And none of the PCs I would actually buy cost an amount of money where a cash transaction makes much sense.
It's a few-hundred-dollar purchase at most these days -- they've become a commodity item.
One only has to walk into an Apple store to disprove that. A cheap PC that is worth half a shit
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The only thing that walking into a Crapple store proves is the quote about fools and money, and the one about suckers and minutes.
As far as PCs, I've usually bought second-hand off Craigslist, and $100-150 is my price point. For a decent few-year-old laptop like a Thinkpad X-series at that... the things depreciate like rocks.
They've got bill feeders (Score:2)
Missing the problem (Score:2)
Can we work on eliminating shoppers from the stores? They're the real problems.
how does it work for real food? (Score:2)
like buying meat and produce by the pound? Or taking stuff out out of place?
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What, you mean people will just go in these stores and start messing things up by picking items and leaving them in other random shelves just to mess things up?
Let's just hope this doesn't become a thing! #RandomizeAutomatedStores
No retail, no driving, no food service (Score:2)
I keep saying this, but we're heading for another industry revolution, and there was 70 years of unemployment, poverty, social strife and wars after the last one that didn't end until new tech caught up with new jobs. It's easy to destroy something, it's harder to create. Jobs are the same way.
Re: No retail, no driving, no food service (Score:3)
Don't forget JRD... (Score:2)
So J Random Doofus picks up item A then later on decides that item B is better, and so puts item A back in the wrong place. Doubles my shopping time because I have to double-check that what I've picked up is actually what the label on the shelf says it is. If MS can solve this one (maybe by giving JRD a shock at the time) I'll sign up.
M$? M$ IS EVILL!!1111 +6 Insightful (Score:2, Funny)
More surveillance.. (Score:2)
Still needs ID checkers! (Score:2)
Still needs ID checkers!
RFID (Score:2)
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This is an idea as old as RFID tags! Seriously, when RFID first came out, this is what they said it would be used for.
Walmart doesn't want to deploy RFID tags until they can be used for warehouse inventory too. That way they can use the same tracking system for everything. The problem is liquids. An RFID reader, reading a pallet of shampoo doesn't get a positive read on every bottle in the pallet.
Sams' Club leading the way (Score:3, Informative)
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I am not sure I understand how this would be different from the Sam's Club 'Scan and Go' app I used the other day. I scanned each item (who really needs a 2 gallon jar of mayo??) and put it in my cart. When I was done, I told it to pay with my credit card and it generated a upc code and a receipt. The person at the door looked at the receipt, scanned the code and I was gone. No waiting in line. Yes, there is the risk of putting an item in you cart without scanning. I would assume that if you are buying an iPad or other expensive item (that could possibly be hidden) they would do something like 'Hey, let me scan that for you to make sure it comes up with the correct price."
Don't you scan a card and you pick it up after you've paid? That way, small high value items are hard to steal because there are none on the shelf, only a stack of cards showing the item and its barcode. What sucks is you can't scan and go alcohol and have them check your ID on the way out.
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There goes another basic job. (Score:2)
I already avoid the Self Checkout Lanes like the Plague that they are.
Any store that tries this will loose me as even a potential customer.
No sense in going to a store that will likely be having me stock the shelves as I browse next.
Frankly, I can easily see Amazon buying out a Goliath like Walmart, and having a fleet of delivery drones, small cars and vans, with minimal store staff, and a discount option of "pick it yourself" for keeping the Brick and Mortar part of the store open to the people that just h
they're stopping half way (Score:2)
They should go ahead and also eliminate the concept of money, finally getting us to a star-trek like society where no one is either hungry or homeless !
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Yes, because the average self checkout sucks. If you go to the Amazon Go store you will see how much better that experience is - you literally walk in, take something off a shelf, and walk out.
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Well if you are assume adoption of a technology makes you some sort of shill, it does make it sound bad.
They are trade off in nearly any technology. But normally we would agree the worse part of the shopping experience is having to wait in line to purchase it.
You don't necessarily need to be fan of the company, to want technology to better manage your shopping experience.
Most people don't care if it is Amazon Google Apple or Microsoft that is offering the positive experience, it is just the experience they
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The self-checkout lets me check the price of each item as I add it. The number of errors I catch is pretty high. I'm not looking forward to keeping a separate receipt on a calculator, comparing it to the insta-charge and then finding the one employee to complain.
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Self checkouts are just a normal checkout where they make the customer do all the scanning and bagging, and their verification system uses precise weights of the product, which is a pain in the ass and fails rather too often. They're more a cost-savings for the store than a convenience for the customers. That's not remotely the same thing as being able to walk right out of the store with purchases, which would drastically improve the shopping experience.
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I normally prefer using the self checkout for small orders. Mostly not having to wait as long in line, and if I don't feel like getting in an conversation.
Checkout adds zero value and costs lots (Score:2)
How about solving problems that actually exist? We already have "self checkouts". Is that a major problem that needs addressing?
Yes it is a major problem because it's a major cost for retailers. Most retailers have fairly thin margins and anything they can do to reduce headcount and other costs in the checkout process is something worth considering. There is NOTHING value added about the checkout process. It's necessary but it does not add value to the customer or the product. If anything it makes the shopping experience notably less pleasant. It's a cost center for the retailer which they would happily get rid of if they could
Re:Apple already tried/did this (Score:5, Informative)
We have had it in the UK for at least a decade. A supermarket called Waitrose allows you to take a hand scanner and scan your stuff as you put it in your trolley. They are still doing it so the fraud must be at an acceptable level, as with self-service checkouts.
YAY! FREE STUFF! (Score:2)
Unfortunately, you'll also sometimes be double-charged for things, too.
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And don't forget all the problems that will occur if you dare put something blue in your shopping cart.
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And periodically your shopping history will get exported to those nice lads from Nigeria along with your credit credentials. It's nice that they'll have it all in one package and not have to scour the internet for more details. Hell, MS ought to put a price on the service, no sense in providing it for free.
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The items tend to be a bit pricy:
https://thetab.com/uk/2017/08/... [thetab.com]
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What's wrong with that steak?!
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This isn't the same thing. You don't 'scan' anything. You come in, you take some things and put them into your bag, and you walk out.
The premise - at least at the Amazon Go store - is that you must first identify yourself to the store ( using your Amazon account ) and it then tracks you as you move through the store using machine vision. A combination of machine vision and shelf sensors watches as you pick stuff up and adds it to your virtual cart.
By the time you are ready to leave the store your virtual ca
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his isn't the same thing. You don't 'scan' anything. You come in, you take some things and put them into your bag, and you walk out.
The premise - at least at the Amazon Go store - is that you must first identify yourself to the store ( using your Amazon account ) and it then tracks you as you move through the store using machine vision. A combination of machine vision and shelf sensors watches as you pick stuff up and adds it to your virtual cart.
By the time you are ready to leave the store your virtual car
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Yeah. The premise is great! But seeing as we're a mostly "service based" economy now, what's the consequences when we only need to hire a fraction of the people currently working *IN* services?
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Yeah. The premise is great! But seeing as we're a mostly "service based" economy now, what's the consequences when we only need to hire a fraction of the people currently working *IN* services?
They move on to new services, which people can now afford because other things are cheaper. There are successful startups now for (internet shopping-style) lawn mowing [lawnstarter.com], car washing [nuwashcarwash.com], dry cleaner pick-up/delivery [mwcleaners.com], all sorts of recurring business like that. Stuff you could easily do yourself, but hey, if it's cheap enough, why not have someone else do it?
As with every historical displacement of workers, new jobs are created because the middle class can afford more, normally goods or services that only the ri
Re:And cash is handled... how? (Score:4, Informative)
I was curious about the legality of refusing all cash payments, so I did a little research.
Apparently, so long as the policy is stated *before* any debts are incurred, any business may set any monetary policy it desires. That's why it's legal to say things like "no bills larger than $20" or whatever. The only time this isn't the case is if there's a state law in place that requires businesses to accept cash or something along those lines.
The more you know, I guess
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Paying cash is perfectly doable in such a system. You have a bill acceptor in store that "refills" your account after you touch your smartphone or smart card. Same as a contactless transit card or even refill systems for pre-paid phone accounts.
Since it refills the account and isn't a means of payment, it can be very simple -- it doesn't have to give change, just take 5's, 10's, and 20's.
Re: And cash is handled... how? (Score:2)
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You can't pay in cash in the Amazon Go store. You can't even walk into the store unless you have an Amazon account.
cash what about WIC, food stamps, EBT? (Score:2)
cash what about WIC, food stamps, EBT?
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Well, that would not seem wise, to be voluntarily shutting yourself off from a large amount of potential business, just to not take cash.
And hey, not everyone has a smartphone, you know?
Not everyone has a credit card...
I myself prefer to use cash, I take out my weekly amounts I plan to spend on normal expenses (food, etc)....and like to do this so that I have a very good idea on my spending for the week. Credit Cards abstract y
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About the smartphone part... it will probably require an application, so I guess they're going to shut out people with old, not-up-to-date smartphones too?
they can free in store ones to rent like self scan (Score:2)
they can free in store ones to rent like the self scan stores.
Re: And cash is handled... how? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Hahahahahahaha. You must be new to the US. In the US, the corporations write the laws and pay the politicians to vote on them. Visa/MC and the banks get up to 3% of every single card use. That's at least a percentage point or two of the GDP. That's more money that I can imagine. Unless we get money out of politics, we'll be cashless soon.
Cash isn't always efficient (Score:2)
Well, that would not seem wise, to be voluntarily shutting yourself off from a large amount of potential business, just to not take cash.
That depends heavily on what you are selling and who you are selling it to. I guarantee the Apple Store isn't doing a lot of cash transactions. Amazon seems to be doing alright and the vast majority of what they sell doesn't involve paper money at all. Other companies like McDonalds or Walmart do rather a lot of cash business. Cash isn't inherently good or bad but companies shouldn't be obligated to handle it if it reduces their profits.
And hey, not everyone has a smartphone, you know?
No but the number of people who do is a huge number - presently aro [pewinternet.org]
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Do we know if the amazon store does NOT take cash?
It may take over..but I don't see it going fully that way in my lifetime.
And honestly, I don't know if it is a good idea, especially with recent news about banks and whole POS systems going offline and losing business, if no cash that's loss of all business during down time. If the power grid is terrorist attacked.....what will you buy things with before it comes back if i
Accepting cash (Score:2)
Per my other post....I've yet to see in the US, a non-cash business in meatspace.
Yes you have but I think you mean retailers. Most (though not all) retailers accept cash but many other businesses do not as a general practice and the number is increasing [sfgate.com]. Heck my company pretty much never deals in cash. We could in principle but it would be wildly inconvenient and cost a lot more because we aren't a retailer.
It may take over..but I don't see it going fully that way in my lifetime.
I would agree with that though I do think you will see increasing numbers of businesses that find cash to not be worth the bother. It really comes down to whether the increased r
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Do we know if the amazon store does NOT take cash?
The Amazon Go store has no checkout or register of any kind. You check in, pick up what you want, and walk out.
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The only thing you can't buy these days is the 11" MBA, Apple dropped it in 2016.