Apple Must Explain Why It Doesn't Want You To Fix Your Own iPhone, California Lawmaker Says (vice.com) 195
A California state lawmaker says she hopes to make Apple explain specifically why it has opposed and lobbied against legislation that would make it easier for you to repair your iPhone and other electronics. Motherboard reports: Last week, California assemblymember Susan Talamantes-Eggman announced that she plans to introduce right to repair legislation in the state, which would require companies like Apple, Microsoft, John Deere, and Samsung to sell replacement parts and repair tools, make repair guides available to the public, and would require companies to make diagnostic software available to independent shops. Public records show that Apple has lobbied against right to repair legislation in New York, and my previous reporting has shown that Apple has privately asked lawmakers to kill legislation in places like Nebraska. To this point, the company has largely used its membership in trade organizations such as CompTIA and the Consumer Technology Association to publicly oppose the bill. But with the right to repair debate coming to Apple's home state, Talamantes-Eggman says she expects the company to show up to hearings about the bill.
"Apple is a very important company in the state of California, and one I have a huge amount of respect for. But the onus is on them to explain why we can't repair our own things and what damage or danger it causes them," Talamantes-Eggman told me in a phone interview. Talamantes-Eggman told me that the bill she plans to introduce will apply to both consumer electronics as well as agricultural equipment such as tractors. Broadly speaking, the electronics industry has decided to go with an "authorized repair" model in which companies pay the original device manufacturer to become authorized to fix devices.
"Apple is a very important company in the state of California, and one I have a huge amount of respect for. But the onus is on them to explain why we can't repair our own things and what damage or danger it causes them," Talamantes-Eggman told me in a phone interview. Talamantes-Eggman told me that the bill she plans to introduce will apply to both consumer electronics as well as agricultural equipment such as tractors. Broadly speaking, the electronics industry has decided to go with an "authorized repair" model in which companies pay the original device manufacturer to become authorized to fix devices.
Dead simple (Score:5, Insightful)
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spare parts usually have quite high markup
It works out great for the auto industry.
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spare parts usually have quite high markup
It works out great for the auto industry.
Johnny Cash had an answer for that...
Larceny !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws-_syszg84 [youtube.com]
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Yeah, but there's a difference. Anyone who has repaired electronics like an iPhone knows that the parts inside are incredibly inexpensive. The last thing that Apple wants you to know is that all the parts of an iPhone cost like $15. It might make some people less willing to pay $1000.
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.... which is why spare parts are sold at high markup.
If you tried to assemble a $20,000 car from spare parts at retail price, you'd probably end up spending $1,000,000.
You wouldn't be able to do it though, since you can't buy a spare monocoque chassis.
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I've gone to a local junkyard and got a perfectly good fuel pump for approximately $5,
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Your anecdote doesn't change the fact the service department of any car dealership is the most profitable part of the business and the OEM spare parts departments of car manufacturers are also extremely profitable.
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You can repair it now, but you void the warranty. Don't like the manufacturer's rules, buy something else. It's that simple.
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Car manufacturers can’t void your warranty unless you do something that damages the vehicle. I can, or an independent mechanic can, change the oil or replace the brakes without voiding the warranty. Of course, the increasing use of sophisticated diagnostic tools, such as those that require registering a new battery on a BMW, for example, means even what once were simple repairs now require buying a third party diagnostic tool to properly complete a repair.
Even something as simple as installing a Blue
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Really? Try replacing the TouchID sensor on one.
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I've repaired Apple devices and later taken them for Apple warranty service. If you do your own repairs they CAN void the warranty, but that doesn't mean they do, unless the damage is likely due to your repair job. Running over your phone repeatedly with a steam roller also voids the warranty.
Re:Dead simple (Score:4, Insightful)
Anyone who's worked a customer service desk knows this - warranty fraud is rampant.
We're not talking about the lame ass buy-a-new-product return-old-product-inside-it trick, but customers lie through their teeth. You can have a laptop that's fallen into the pool, or bathrub, or whatever, and is dripping water all over the return counter, and the customer will say there is no water damage.
And most people are incompetent. Just think about your time fixing software issues. Now figure out what happens when you unleash them to fix hardware problems too. The old butterknife screwdriver is the least of your problems.
Think about it - a site like iFixit - probably the biggest pusher for right to repair, doesn't really want you do it. I mean, if they did, why don't they warrant their products? You buy it, you try to fix it, it doesn't work, why can't you return it? It's almost as if they know if they sell you a cable to fix your iPhone, you're going to return them the damaged one and claim they shipped you a bad one.
And it doesn't cover even things like security - TouchID and FaceID sensors are paired with the phone so people don't swap them. Why? Because if you swap them, you could swap them with "evil" versions of the sensors that record (and transmit) your fingerprint and facial data to a third party who may use it to log into your phone when you're not around. Since this is specialized tech, you can assume it would be a state agency that does this. That would be the deepest of ironies - the FBI uses the law to force Apple to make it so they can break in.
And what about stuff that's safety related? If you replace the battery yourself and it causes the phone to catch on fire, is Apple responsible? Even an official first party battery can be problematic with a fat-fingered person prodding it with their butterknife screwdriver.
I'm guessing we'll see the return of the "warranty void if broken" sticker. Because right now, there's an IQ test in place for people fixing their stuff. And if you think it's ridiculous, well, you haven't seen what the public can do. If you fix computers for a living, you know exactly the people who are going to try to fix their stuff.
Did you even read the post you replied to? (Score:3)
It turns out that a lot of people were getting their home button fixed in unauthorized repair shops and this lead to the brickage. Apple's response was to release a software path to unbrick their phone and update the OS to instead just disable the TouchID when it detected an unauthorized sensor replacement.
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That was Apple's response when they found they could not get away with this. I agree that on the surface, their reasons appeared good. But they were not. As soon as an attacker has access to hardware, they have generally won. Also, the home-button is not something you can secretly swap out on a user. So this security check makes no sense, except to prevent "unauthorized" repair.
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They can try, but the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act will hold up in court if you go that far. They just know you can't afford a lawyer.
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Manufacturers' warranties typically only last up to 2 years. Yes, you can purchase a warranty extension but it should be possible to replace a $15 battery without paying $50-100 to somebody utilizing a sonic screwdriver to open the case (or engaging battery-regulating software without informing the user.)
But clickbait aside, I'm not sure why the rage is directed solely at Apple. Being a market leader, Android manufacturers tend to follow suit with every user-hostile feature removal. To buy something else im
App store, iTunes (Score:2)
They make plenty of money if they keep you as a customer. When your phone breaks you can get a new one, and it might not be an Apple branded phone.
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But strangely, Apple provides operating system updates for its mobile products for roughly five years and still makes a whole lot of money. There is no need to fix an older iphone or ipad because they're just too slow at that point.
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Re: Dead simple (Score:5, Insightful)
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And yet I can't buy an oil filter wrench from my car dealer. I'm all for a law that says a manufacturer can't *impede* a third party (including individuals) who want to do FSM knows what to their property, but requiring that every company actually provide a full suite of tools and instructions for how to do so seems a bit far.
Also, where do you draw the line? Do all electronics manufacturers have to sell desolder stations and BGA soldering instructions?
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But, to answer your question with just one example, you can't replace the TouchID fingerprint sensor on an iPhone without a special Apple tool/software.
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So I asked you, which proprietary tools are required to fix a smartphone?
By your hostility I'm thinking maybe you can't think of one?
Oh, but he already gave you one:
But, to answer your question with just one example, you can't replace the TouchID fingerprint sensor on an iPhone without a special Apple tool/software.
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Apple has specifically addressed that particular item. The encryption keys necessary to get a phone to recognize a new fingerprint sensor are not publicly available (or available to any repair agent, IIRC) because then anyone could defeat the security on the phone.
I guess that's the only example? If that's it, this seems like not much more than a government grab for circumvention devices, in which case I hope manufacturers create special publicly available keys for California.
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I not only can think of one, but I wrote it out for you. You simply can't read one.
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" I mentioned (in passing) that I can't buy an oil filter wrench from my car dealer."
Gee maybe because the car dealer deals with SELLING CARS. If you wanted a part, you'd go to their REPAIR CENTER.
I mean, fuck I needed a B-pillar seatbelt bolt for my 2002 Explorer. I didn't walk into the dealership, I went to the service center on the side of the dealership and got the goddamned part.
Do you even gearhead?
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In fact, I just asked if I could borrow the tools (ratchet and socket) and they were provided.
Do you even customer service?
Re: Dead simple (Score:2)
but they really complement my rear window decal of Calvin pissing on a Chevy logo!
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Yeah, I have a friend who has a decent record resoldering BGAs. I was never able to do it at all.
I think the cases have much more in common than you suggest. BGAs, and more inconvenient packages in general, *were* introduced to make things more compact. They have the side effect of making boards essentially unrepairable. You can replace through hole components no problem; surface mount is usually okay, for someone with some expertise; BGA... not even close to worth it.
Phones never had ZIF sockets and th
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"while it's simple enough to remove a BGA package IC, installing the replacement is an order of magnitude more difficult to do correctly"
Maybe for you, who likely holds no reasonable amount of experience.
Any half-competent heat-gun solder tech could do the entirety of the board rework by hand with a 90+% fix rate.
It's harder to remove a working BGA component and to keep it intact than it is to install. Fresh solder paste has a lower melting point versus melted and hardened solder.
Experience (and metallurgic
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No, I'm not, as I've worked in multiple repair depots doing EXACTLY THAT.
Please try again when you've actually got IRS-verifiable work experience to back up your claims.
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You're probably some kid who used the 'toaster oven' trick to fix the RRoD failure of your gaming conso
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"R&R of BGA type packages, because it is NOT a 'heat gun'"
Bullshit. It's is exactly like a heat gun, but with a tiny-ass fan for airflow instead of a large one. Did plenty of BGA rework at solectron global, thank you
"You're probably some kid who used the 'toaster oven' trick to fix the RRoD failure of your gaming console"
No, I have an actual IR reflow oven, but it's not needed because I grew up doing boardwork starting at age 8, which gives me almost 28 years of experience, now. I can use a regular 1200
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You can buy that wrench legally in a lot of places. If unsure, try Ebay and have it delivered from China. The car dealer is not really the right source for tools and replacement parts. The situation would be different, if a specific wrench was required and only the car manufacturer made them. Then it would be entirely reasonable to require the car manufacturer to sell it in some acceptable way at an acceptable price. That could well be mail-order, does not need to be the car dealer at all.
What you are appar
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Agreed. That's my point. Generally requiring that a manufacturer provide all the tools necessary to repair their product is silly.
So can you give an example of a specialized repair tool you think the smartphone manufacturers should provide?
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Special screwdrivers, instructions how to open and re-close clued connections, firmware diagnostic access software, special diagnostic connectors, schematics, devices that tell the phone "you have been repaired, the new components are fine", data backup and restore software and so on. And, of course, replacement parts for all parts that are curome designed like bezels, glass, buttons, display, batteries, etc.
A manufacturer can easily get out of most of these by using standard parts. There is a second proble
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You can't buy an oil filter wrench from the dealer? I mean, I'm not sure why you would unless you had a car with a particularly interesting oil filter, but yes, you can absolutely buy an oil filter wrench from the dealer. Here's a Mercedes one: https://www.mbpartscenter.com/... [mbpartscenter.com]
That's right, it's a genuine MB OEM oil filter wrench. You can go to a MB dealer and buy one, they might have to special order it for you. Not all car manufacturers make their own oil filter wrenches, in fact most don't. But the
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Chevrolet doesn't sell tools? https://gmtoolsandequipment.co... [gmtoolsandequipment.com]
Audi doesn't? https://audi.snapon.com/Home.a... [snapon.com] (Ok, they outsource their specialty tool business to Snap-On, but that's who sells them to Audi dealers too.)
Look, the reality is that virtually all car manufacturers have a tool sales channel that will sell you the specialty tools you need if you want to work on your own car or set up your own car repair business.
So why should Apple not be forced to do the same?
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Then slap them with a tax or surcharge for creating an unusually large volume of e-waste.
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Then people will buy el cheapo Android phones that last for a year max, increasing e-waste a lot more. Thanks!
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Or buying a phone with comparable features that complies with the right to repair from someone else and avoiding the tax. Or Apple accepting a smaller profit in order to make their glueball cost about as much as a similar compliant phone.
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There must be some environmental impact on destroying old phones for scrap or landfilling them.
Is there a re-sale market for iPhones? There must be millions of perfectly usable phones off a 24 month contract slowed only by Apple's policies on battery degradation.
I just 'upgraded' my mother to a second hand, mint condition, Galaxy S4 off ebay - running LineageOS 14.1 it's still better than any nasty $AU80 phone sold by retailers and a $10 battery every 18 months will see her hold out until the 5G era. (The S
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I suspect there is quite an impact to that. I'm also fairly sure older iPhones in refurbished condition would enjoy a significant market. Apple itself sells them.
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I just 'upgraded' my mother
You just upgraded your mother?
That's a bit oedipal isn't it?
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Only consumers foolish enough to buy Apple products. And frankly, publicizing the fact that you have to pay extra for e-waste disposal with an iProduct would hit them dead center in their liberal/hippy treehugging fanbase.
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Your Windows system can be migrated to a lightweight, still-secure alternative OS. Whether that's some variation of Linux or Chromium OS. Apple locks the "owner" out of their hardware - which should be part of right to repair.
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My Windows 10 machine (bought from a pawn-shop with a recently flashed Win7 license - hopefully no spyware!) dates from 2008 and is perfectly *adequate*; a quieter fan and a more powerful GPU would be the main reasons to upgrade but I'd have to upgrade my dual monitor setup too!
Is there anything a 2018 smartphone with an octa-core 64bit chip and 6GB RAM won't accomplish in 5 years? 5G and Vulkan 2.0 will be on the horizon but unless you really need 8K video recording, we'll have reached peak smartphone soon
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Since we're talking about the iPhone with a locked bootloader in this thread - yes. It won't be secure. The speed isn't the issue.
Re: Dead simple (Score:2)
Given how much they try to convince everyone iOS is better than Android because they keep getting updates, I highly doubt Apple would destroy one of their own selling points.
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Wow. So many lies. Let's try and fix that:
Wired headphones require a chip from them to work 100%
Nope they don't. It's simple analog connectivity, even for the remote (volume plus one button)
Any apps you buy must be through them
True. But you have a fair share of free apps though, which does not require you to buy anything.
Any ads through said apps are through their ad service
Nope. Plenty of third party Sdks or APIs provide ads that Apple has nothing to do with. iAd is dead and even when alive, it was not a requirement to go through them.
Speaking of which, good luck on their invasion of privacy
Being one of the only GAFA company that makes zero money off of your data, I am fairly confident that there is no o
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I used to buy Macbooks because of the hardware (good build quality, customizable), now I stopped buying them because of the hardware (competitors have evolved far past flimsy creaky plastic and LEDs all over the place, Macbooks no longer customizable)
Offical reason versus real reason. (Score:2, Insightful)
Everyone already knows both answers.
The public "official" answer will have to do with brand quality and not tainting their image by allowing inferior unauthorized work to be done, thereby artificially making the units statistically less reliable.
The real reason which they won't say publicly, is because obviously they want to sell you a newer phone.
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They don't want the overhead of having to support multiple versions of hardware and ending up like the PC market.
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They don't want the overhead of having to support multiple versions of hardware and ending up like the PC market.
They still could EOL older machines, just like car manufactirers do. Parts for some older vehicles are no longer available, although the life cycle is longer for cars than computers. A large third party source of suppliers has arisen around making parts no longer available from manufacturers for vehicle long out of production; especially for cars popular with enthusiasts. Specialized trim pieces seem to buy the hardest to find, which is why I recommend buying a compete set of decals for a vehicle that has a
I repaired my iPhone5 (Score:3, Informative)
I had an iPhone5 with an expanded battery that pushed the display out of its case. For $50, I bought a display, battery and "repair kit" from eBay. After watching an internet video 3 times, I was able to repair it, breaking the camera in the process. For another $5, I got a camera from eBay & replaced the broken camera. I was able to use it for a number of years before the charging connector failed. I'm still thinking about repairing it.
As a degreed EE, though, who has worked for some of the high-tech firms (not Apple), I can kind of understand Apple's position. Suppose the battery I bought from eBay had shorted & burned up the phone. Suppose I left a metal fragment in there which shorted one of the I/O pins when I needed to call 911. A repair shop which has nothing to do for a few days might figure out a software mod which causes problems later, etc. Years ago, computers became too complex for component repair and companies went to board repair. With cellphones today, even board repair is difficult -- the best route for a company like Apple is to offer a pretty good trade-in value for a new phone.
Chicken, egg (Score:2, Flamebait)
That's a consequence of toxic marketing driving intentionally poor design: too-thin phones, too-fragile connectors, non-replaceable batteries, screens without a reasonable bezel around them, etc.
There's no good reason at all a phone can't be designed to be easy to maintain, repair, use and carry.
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Hyperbole much, there, Mr/Ms AC?
Thanks for the laugh. :)
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Yes, there's a reason. But I said a good reason, which there isn't.
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Again, I don't disagree. However, I maintain that these do not in any way constitute good reasons to degrade a phone design. This is a device that your life could depend upon. That, from time to time, lives do depend upon. Because of this, I am convinced they should be rugged, reliable, and repairable, rather than be subject to overweening design constraints that reduce some comb
Re:I repaired my iPhone5 (Score:4, Interesting)
Can't-make-a-911-call example is a joke compared to what might happen if I don't bother to tighten the lug nuts on the wheel that I'm allowed to change on my car. All the dead and injured people on the highway are why you want to call 911.
Yet we're still allowed to repair cars.
Pretty much the only way you're going to have a phone failure be as bad as the routine auto repair risks that we already accept, is to take that phone on a plane and have an overly-rapid battery discharge. So use such an example next time.
My ideal phone upgrade (Score:4, Interesting)
Can I get an iphone that's more durable and has a removable battery?
I'm willing to accept it being double the weight and thickness; I bet with the extra structure they can also improve its durability and let me keep my damned headphone jack.
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Can I get a sports car that takes regular gasoline and seats four people? I'm fine with doubling the weight or whatever to just get what I want.
Then buy a Honda Civic.
You want an iPhone that's more durable and has a removable battery? Did you check the Android aisle?
The whole point of the iPhone is the sleekness, the design, the brand. If you're not into that then you're not into the iPhone and you need to stop kidding yourself.
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iPhone is about iOS, and Android phones don't run iOS.
So what exactly is your point?
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Yup, ditto for laptops, which are at least historically more fixable. My mid-2012 MBP needed the battery replaced, which required going to a service place that replaced (as a unit) the top case, battery, keyboard and trackpad. Fine, at least I get a less-grungy keyboard, right? Then the charging circuit died on the main board. I *could* have gotten that fixed too, to still have an out-of-warranty, non-upgradeable device with a bunch of stuck pixels on the display.
So I went and bought a Lenovo P50, with a be
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I'm NOT willing to accept it being double the weight and thickness. I've never had an iPhone fail on me for reasons of durability, though. I admit that I keep a thin, $12 case on the back (just the back, nothing covering the screen) and I kept my iPhone 4 for 4 years, my iPhone 6 for 3 years (only 3 because it was stolen), and I've had my iPhone 7 for about 6 months.
The batteries in my iPhones did begin to fail around year 3, but that's chemistry.
So given all of these things, I STILL think that making 1st p
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You are lucky, or a very light user.
My fiancee and all her friends and family have iPhones. All heavy users. Batteries typically last around 18 to 24 months, which is what you would expect. The batteries they use are good for about 500 cycles, and because they are relatively small average about one a day.
Being thicker and more damage resistant would be a great benefit to them. They all have chunky cases and screen protectors to protect their fragile phones anyway. The naked phones are very slippery and the
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And a headphone jack will cost Apple a fortune in lost sales of wireless headphones with non-removable batteries that also end up in the landfill in 2 years.
Why do you want to help the environment and hurt corporate profits, are you some kind of hippie commie?
iTHICC (Score:2)
Sorry, not all of us want a thick phone.
Bullshit.
Everyone knows iTHICC is the best.
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Sadly, android's pro-advertising security model is not satisfactory. :-(
It's a shame that Apple can't cater to different niches with better differentiation than cheap/mainstream/uber-expensive.
I'm interested to see whether my new Gemini (modern Psion notebook with 4g) with Linux can do adequate smartphone duties.
The chances of such legislation passing (Score:5, Insightful)
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It's California. Apple already owns the Democrat Party from their numerous donations over the years, so this is apparently a legislator who missed out on that and doesn't have his marching orders. This could turn out interesting.
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What I find funny about your comment is you don't even try to dispute the actual facts. You're supposed to be barfing up something stupid like "duh, everybody knows the Republicans are the party of big business."
john deere does not want to send a dear john to de (Score:2)
john deere does not want to send a dear john to dealers that need to make bank on dealer only repairs.
Everyone's forgetting DRM (Score:5, Interesting)
Everyone is aware of the planned obsolescence angle, but nobody seems to have noticed that particular irony of California (i.e. the state containing Hollywood) being the one asking for a right to repair. Lots of hardware makers are either in bed with content companies, or are one. As long as DRM is still legal, this results in an unavoidable conflict of interest.
DRM is always what these companies are really talking about, whenever they use the word "security." They mean they want to keep the machine's master's interests secure against the great adversary: the machine's owner.
DRM and right-to-repair are fundamentally incompatible. You can't implement DRM and also be owner-maintainable, because from an owner's point of view, DRM implementations are bugs (or malware, depending on how strict you want to be about the implementor's intent), and bugs need to be fixed.
I think California will cave in on this, and their legislators will eventually realize that it's necessary that people have adversarial relationship with their computers. The only way this can be avoided, is if DRM ceases to be a thing. And the only way that's going to happen, is if it's outlawed.
Expect this bill to die, for much more inflexible reasons than wanting to protect planned obsolescence. They simply can't allow people to be in charge of their own computers. It's not happening.
I disagree (Score:2)
This only comes into the conversation when it's RMS levels of repair. If it were only down to the secure enclave, baseband, and other similar SoC items, this wouldn't really be a problem.
I'd wager that the top five hardware items to repair on the iPhone are as follows:
1. Cracked screen.
2. EoL battery.
3. Lightning connector.
4. Home button.
5. silent switch / volume buttons / power button.
Each of these are reasonably-modular things that a reasonably skilled individual could perform; Youtube tutorials abound fo
Having the right to repair purchased items. (Score:3, Insightful)
I had to think about this for a while, but it all points back to Apple wanting to sell phones. After I've had my phone for say 3 years why can't I try and fix it? It's not a warranty problem, that's expired. Important point is the phone is mine, not the selling company. I throw the BS flag on the idea it's to keep the integrity of their product. I know, it would be better for me to walk around with a cracked screen on my phone, cause that's great advertisement. Buy this phone, it breaks. And lastly as a couple of people have commented, there is usually multiple detailed youtube videos available on exactly how to do it.
Personally I'm sick of people telling me what do to with my stuff. I'm curious by nature and I've fixed a lot of broken stuff. It's what drive a number of us nerd types. Can I fix this, or better yet, how can I make this better.
This just seems to be all about the money.
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What is preventing you from trying to fix your 3-year-old phone?
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"Right to repair" is a terrible name (Score:5, Insightful)
What this really is is a law to prohibit companies from using manufacturing process and designs which deliberately impede the owner's ability to tinker with a product. And Apple products are not the most egregious violator. It's printers with chipped ink cartridges which refuse to operate unless you buy a new cartridge from that specific manufacturer. (Software is worse, but it gets a pass because you typically buy a software license, not the software itself.)
Where did you get that? (Score:2)
Simple (Score:2)
Because, like home computers, smartphones are at the end of their adoption phase; every adult who is likely to eventually have one, now has one. And now they are also nearing the end of their feature phase - a smartphone from three years ago can do most of the useful things a 2018 smartphone can.
Companies like Apple and Samsung know this, and are scrambling to maintain their quarterly sales by cramming in useless features as selling points.
They're scared shitless that once people figure out they don't actu
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Devices need to be repairable (Score:2)
irony (Score:2)
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Actually, California elected someone who knows exactly how companies make money, and isn't having any of it.
You cannot possibly underestimate how much the California legislature hates business in all forms. My employer has state inspectors dig through their trash cans looking for burnt out light bulbs.
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You've clearly never run a business in California. (And almost certainly would fail if you tried, here or anywhere.)
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The walrus ate it.
Coo Coo Ca Choo.
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