iMac Pro Will Have An A10 Fusion Coprocessor For 'Hey, Siri' Support and More Secure Booting, Says Report (theverge.com) 164
According to Apple firmware gurus Steven Troughton-Smith and Guilherme Rambo, the upcoming iMac Pro will feature an A10 Fusion coprocessor to enable two interesting new features. "The first is the ability for the iMac Pro to feature always-on 'Hey, Siri' voice command support, similar to what's currently available on more recent iPhone devices," reports The Verge. "[T]he bigger implication of the A10 Fusion is for a less user-facing function, with Apple likely to use the coprocessor to enable SecureBoot on the iMac Pro." From the report: In more practical terms, it means that Apple will be using the A10 Fusion chip to handle the initial boot process and confirm that software checks out, before passing things off to the regular x86 Intel processor in your Mac. It's not something that will likely change how you use your computer too much, like the addition of "Hey, Siri" support will, but it's a move toward Apple experimenting with an increased level of control over its software going forward.
Secure for who? (Score:4, Interesting)
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Apple is motivated to protect their customers at the moment
Apple is motivated to keep its customers locked into its distribution channel. Never blame conspiracies for what can easily be explained by greed.
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Right now it's false advertising (;-))
It's possible to be secure in a few dimensions: confidentiality is well-understood, but people inserting covert channels is an unsolved problem. Back in the mainframe days, I could be pretty sure the boot deck for Hi-Multics.ARPA didn't have any cool features, but I don't want to boot Fedora from a card-reader to get that assurance.
more un-asked for features (Score:1)
will the thing have an "emoji touch bar" or actual function keys?
people asked for a competitively priced powerful computer with a powerful, upgradable GPU, with internal expansion options.
we get a $5000 iMac with a dedicated Siri chip.
christ on a cracker.
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I had an iMac a couple generations back but once I realized that there was no upgrade path I moved to a MacPro and a couple Dell monitors.
I don't think I'll continue down this path since the OS hasn't really brought anything to the table for power users (people who can touch type).
I was really hoping to get a 12 core 64G laptop by now but for now, in the mac world, 16G is enough.
I'm not sure who is in control of the desktop/server OS anymore but it can't be someone who uses it every day. They should spin
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Thinkpad P-series. Run Ubuntu, virtualize anything unavailable on Ubuntu.
You can't (legally) virtualize Xcode on anything but a Mac.
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Finally. ARM on the 'desktop'. (Score:3)
Waiting for the next MacMini to just be a cluster of ARM chips.
If Apple does it and it works it means everyone else is going to start doing it.
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Psst, kid, want an ARM desktop [wikipedia.org]?
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Eh. I'd rather have something the size of a Mini with a load more cores. Something with 4x A10X chips. 16GB of RAM and an SSD.
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I mean, at that point what's the advantage of having ARM CPUs over an x86 chip?
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When Apple did: Airport (802.11b), Gigabit Ethernet, USB only, UEFI it cost an arm an a leg too.
The thing is the rest of industry followed (eventually) and now we have it much cheaper.
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Didn't work so well with SCSI and Firewire, but hey!
I'd like to see a VM friendly macOS or an update to the minis, for our build farm.
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Firewire was relatively popular until it got superseded by thunderbolt and usb3..
SCSI was better than the alternatives at the time, and didn't get replaced until the alternatives had caught up to it.
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Is it me or... (Score:5, Insightful)
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do you want your computer listening all the time? Is there any way to turn Siri off short of pulling the plug out?
[System Preferences --> Siri --> uncheck "Enable Siri"]
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Re:Is it me or... (Score:5, Informative)
Will this just turn off response, or will this still send audio to Apple's clown servers in case someone turns Siri on in the next 5 seconds?
It deciphers the Hey Siri! Phrase on-chip. Nothing is sent to Apple until AFTER you utter the Trigger Phrase.
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Come now, I don't think Apple runs Windows Server
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> It deciphers the Hey Siri! Phrase on-chip
Do we know whether the pharase is hard-coded? Can we change it to, say, "Hail Satan" or something?
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> It deciphers the Hey Siri! Phrase on-chip
Do we know whether the pharase is hard-coded? Can we change it to, say, "Hail Satan" or something?
No, it cannot be changed. That's one of the reasons we KNOW that it is being recognized on-chip. They didn't (yet) build the entire Siri "recognition engine" into the A10 and above; just enough to recognize that particular utterance in a speaker-independent way.
Re: Is it me or... (Score:2)
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Logic fail. You cannot "KNOW", there's no difference between it being processed in the cloud with " hey siri" and "hey Satan" if the server only responds to "hey siri".
It's not a valid assumption.
Fair enough; but This [apple.com] validates my assumption quite nicely, don'tcha think?
BTW, that took .05 secs of Googling. Perhaps, next time you might try that BEFORE you resort to easily-disproven sarcastic bullshit.
Re: Is it me or... (Score:2)
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I had already seen that when I replied. It's irrelevant. I wasn't disputing how it works.
I didn't have to look at the link, I was merely pointing out what you took to be true wasn't actually proof. It's like saying I KNOW that the Earth is round because I never fell off the edge.
It wasn't sarcastic, it was just pointing out your logic was wrong.
My "logic" was based on many many years as an embedded Dev., plus the fact that the trigger phrase wasn't changeable, suggesting a "simple" dedicated-hardware speech recognition system, and additionally suggested by the fact that the "Hey Siri" wakeup required an update of the SoC to happen without having the iPhone plugged into AC Power (because just a small subsystem in the SoC had to remain awake to listen/decipher the Trigger Phrase).
So, It was a case of deductive reasoning (or is it inductive? I can't
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Yes we know - it is hard coded. Actually, a variety of equivalent phrases in different languages supported by Siri are hard-coded. Apple's Machine Learning Journal has an article about the "Hey Siri"-detecting deep learning network: https://machinelearning.apple.... [apple.com]
Cool citation, thanks!
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pretty easy to verify with wireshark.
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Don't try to reason with bigots. It can be fun, but it's essentially pointless.
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Thanks for recycling the a joke from South Park.
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Lol, even more, proof how much of a nerdgasm killer apple products are.
also, doubt Siri will be any less deaf than she is on the current I phones. sometimes you say like "hey Siri open the pod bay door" or something else and she gives you completely the opposite of what you said even though you said it really clearly.
Finally the iPhone 10 is a joke and a good way to burn a hole in your pocket just look at the meme that spawned from it.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/i... [kym-cdn.com]
Offtopic much?
We were discussing whether the A10/A11 being included in the iMac Pro was for Hey Siri!, or for Hardware Lockdown.
Your Post addressed neither topic, and was instead simply an Off-Topic Apple Hater diatribe.
Go away.
Let me Google that for you (Score:2)
This is interesting (Score:2)
x86 Coprocessor? (Score:2)
Isn't this more like an ARM A10 powered iMac Pro with an Intel x86 coprocessor for running existing legacy code on?
The ARM handles booting up the machine and a lot of the security controls.
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Re:x86 Coprocessor? (Score:4, Interesting)
This could also be the start of a push to using ARM chips in Macs. It's not like Apple are scared of changing horses half way through the race having switched from M68k to PPC to x86 to x64 and then with 32-bit and 64-bit ARM cores running the same OS kernel on mobile devices.
The latest Apple A-series chips in the iPhone 8 and X also seem to hold their own in benchmarks against the x86 processors used in (the admittedly outdated hardware in) the MacBook Air and the (not quite as outdated) MacBook.
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"Secure"Boot (Score:2)
Seems to me all they want is to prevent another hackintosh-run by their most loyal and profitable customer base (read: the pro artist). I bet that if this happens to be the case, they won't launch another Mac Pro in at least another 5 years. And obviously price will stay mostly unchanged throughout as the good Nintendo Apple is on this subject.
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Seems to me all they want is to prevent another hackintosh-run by their most loyal and profitable customer base (read: the pro artist). I bet that if this happens to be the case, they won't launch another Mac Pro in at least another 5 years. And obviously price will stay mostly unchanged throughout as the good Nintendo Apple is on this subject.
If Apple wanted to quash the Hacintosh community, they could have done that back in 2006.
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I personally disagree for a multitude of reasons.
First would be that Apple simply might have not wanted it enough in the past as it does now, since now the scale of hackintosh use is affecting their economies of scale. Back then it simply didn't matter.
Second, the only real thing a company can do is prepare (it's rarely enough) and proactively demotivate hacking. I like to look at the gaming consoles market* as a great example of how relevant OR not piracy protection can be to different companies, due to di
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I personally disagree for a multitude of reasons.
First would be that Apple simply might have not wanted it enough in the past as it does now, since now the scale of hackintosh use is affecting their economies of scale.
Citation, please? I would imagine that the Hackintosh community has never risen above the 1 - 2% world. Remember, you have to consider how many people have NO idea how to even start creating a Hackintosh, let alone solving any problems along the way.
I have built PUH-lenty of white-box PCs, even back in the days of DIP switches and IRQ conflicts (and also later on), and I STILL would have difficulty convincing myself that creating a Hackintosh would be worth the potential "gotchas" with WiFi, Sound, Thunderb
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Very fair points there.
About the not wanting it enough, that is, of course, my own speculation (hence the use of "might", and after that my reasoning). The hackintosh numbers increasing, among pros, I explain a bit more below, but it's also speculation.
In the end we'll just have to wait and see why the inclusion of the ARM cpu. There are many things this can bring to the table, from basic branding (like having some shinny, 60fps fully animated "bios" or "fastboot") to interoperability/recovery or even flat
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Very fair points there.
Thanks for acknowledging that! It's actually getting pretty rare on /. to have CIVIL discourse with others... ;-)
About the not wanting it enough, that is, of course, my own speculation (hence the use of "might", and after that my reasoning). The hackintosh numbers increasing, among pros, I explain a bit more below, but it's also speculation.
In the end we'll just have to wait and see why the inclusion of the ARM cpu. There are many things this can bring to the table, from basic branding (like having some shinny, 60fps fully animated "bios" or "fastboot") to interoperability/recovery or even flat out low power. Hell, even using it for not having to replicate the "neural engine" and provide FaceID just like in the iPhone X.
There's actually a precedent for that last bit: You know that the original Macintosh was SUPPOSED to have an MC6809 Microprocessor; but nobody wanted to port Andy Hertzfeld's(?) work on QuickDraw and its Overlapping Windows that he had done for the Lisa (which had an MC68k in it), and so they just put a 68k in the Mac, too!
Of course the Mac community, especially the Pros, will likely not resort to piracy or Hackingtosh by default, but from a look at the amount youtube instructionals by very popular personalities, or the scale, detail and variety of hardware compatibility lists [tonymacx86.com] (going all the way up to high-end GPUs and CPUs) really goes to show who has been building Mac workstations recently, and these will resort to piracy if it makes things simpler. As I said before, they are already in the shit if caught.
I would imagine the Looooooooong wait for a Mac Pro refresh isn't helping
Re: "Secure"Boot (Score:2)
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Building a hackitosh is too overwhelming for you, therefore the numbers must be low?
Logic fail.
Fuck man, it's just reading what smarter people than you have done and also doing that. Too difficult to read?
That's twisting what I said, and meant.
It isn't too hard for me, I just don't have the need or the inclination or the time to mess with it.
And you should very well know that not every challenge has been discovered, or solved, by "smarter people".
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How do you equate "profitable" with "hackintosh user"?
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Yeah it might have needed a bit of context - in recent years, pro artists, despite initially buying Mac Pros, eventually needed performance boost and upgradeability not available due to the stagnation of the hardware, as there was no new release or upgrade to the Pro for years.
Others, like buyers who were due for an upgrade at the mid-life point of the Mac Pro (assume they didn't buy Mac Pros at launch for a multitude of reasons), were left an easy choice for hackintosh use, since the Mac Pro proposition di
Apple really trying to get rid of its pro users (Score:2, Interesting)
Granted, it probably is a good thing to prevent hipsters and grandmothers' machines from getting infected with some sort of boot-level trojans and other sophisticated malware, but in the process of doing this it would seem as if Apple is moving closer and closer to a time when the rest of us long-time OS-X users will just altogether give up on this new hardware because it arguably has gotten to the point where it comes encumbered with too
Re: Apple really trying to get rid of its pro user (Score:2)
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The Mac is a Unix system, there always will be "apt-get" equivalents for the Mac, like brew, port or fink.
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Your argument would make sense, if not for the fact that Apple has been moving in the other direction recently. For example, you can now install any app on iOS devices that you compile for yourself. A useful feature for geeks, not so much for average consumers.
As to sandboxing, the principle of least privilege is good engineering. As long as the user can define the restrictions and can run things with full privileges when required.
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Yes, you are being unreasonably suspicious and paranoid. Consider for a moment the fact that Apple has not lifted a finger to interfere with the hackintosh scene.... The OS is freely downloadable and commodity hardware can be assembled and deployed as a MacPro without the premium price tag. In your post, you're suggesting there is some kind of trend at play here. If that were the case, Apple would be battling the hackintosh scene b
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almost everything I do on the Mac I can do in Ubuntu Studio or the various other creative distros.
Except Xcode, if by chance your employer or client makes it your job to port a native app to iOS.
As long as there's RT kernel support
Do you prefer Russia Today's realtime kernel or Rotten Tomatoes' realtime kernel?
workstations also need easy to remove storage when (Score:2)
workstations also need easy to remove storage when the system is shipped out for repair. HP and DELL yet you destroy HDD's that are under warranty on a swap out. That is a big data leak risk with apple non user replaceable storage.
More Secure Booting? (Score:5, Insightful)
Meaning you can't install an alt-OS to it?
Not really... (Score:4)
as linux is a big deal and some Kernel Modules (Score:2)
as Linux is a big deal and some Kernel Modules may have secure boot signing issues.
Intel can't give up on Linux or esxi AMD Will make a big deal by saying we don't force any thing on OEM and point to a list of stuff from supermirco and others that can do all of your booting needs. Even pixie boot in bios mode / raid / sas cards in bios mode / etc.
To use it as a superfast iOS development... (Score:2)
Re: To use it as a superfast iOS development... (Score:2)
I'm surprised (Score:5, Insightful)
A couple dozen comments in, and no one has pointed out the silliness of touting "Hey Siri" as a defining feature for a supposed pro workstation.
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It's not the only thing, of course -- if you look at the iMac Pro page on the Apple website, the first thing they mention, is "18 cores, power to the pro".
But I think they mention the whole Hey Siri thing because raw specs alone are no longer enough to base their marketing on. It's like cars, where the presence of smartphone options can make or break the deal.
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You mean like JARVIS from the Iron Man movies?
JARVIS, start a new project.
"New project created. Shall I copy this to the corporate servers?"
I like that. JARVIS, begin automated assembly. Fabricate it. Paint it.
"Assembly commenced. Estimated completion time, five hours."
JARVIS, what is the altitude record for manned aircraft?
"85,000 feet, sir."
Give me a weather report, check for aircraft in the area, and listen in on ATC.
I don't know, I'd think having this level of voice command might be helpful for even
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"JARVIS, send an SMS to Dr. Strange confirming lunch... and do it as a 3-D talking poop emoji"
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"JARVIS, send an SMS to Dr. Strange confirming lunch... and do it as a 3-D talking poop emoji"
"Assembly commenced. Estimated completion time, five hours."
Maybe a response to Intel ME worries? (Score:3)
Merging Lanes (Score:2)
What would be nice is if all my Applications ran on my iOS devices and all my Apps ran on my MacOS devices. Ooo... We could just have a unified OS that adapts to the hardware. How radical would that be! Too bad Apple is vehemently against such simplification. I really want all the power of what ever machine I'm using without the different OSs getting in the way. Apple has created Babylon with all their different OSs.
Apple, under Jobs, did good with figuring out the niches and filling them appropriately. Now
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Both macOS and iOS came into existence under Jobs. And, if you ignore the limited-hardware OSes (watchOS and tvOS), they have a grand total of 2. Not exactly an unmanageable set.
iMac Pro only (Score:2)
I'm not seeing this put into all Macs just because it would add to the cost. It makes a difference on a $1000 computer.
at least 11? (Score:2)
Is it just me (Score:2, Interesting)
or are there others who feel that people at work who talk to their computer should be beaten to a pulp with a lead pipe? Since the mid 1990s there has always been some inconsiderate two legged piece of shit who tries that fad at about 3 year intervals.
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I sense a lot of hostility, arrogance and self-righteousness there, AC
I was merely using hyperbole but you might really be off your rocker
Re: Is it just me (Score:2)
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You must type slowly.
Anyway, yes there is the "speakerphone loud Howard" issue too.
iOS plus macOS on the same system? (Score:3)
This could be the great OS convergence that Apple users have been waiting for.
Apple Innovation (Score:2)
If Apple doesn't get off their collective ass and start updating their products they are doomed to fail.
Hey Apple, Steve Jobs would be firing most of your asses by now, since your latest hardware is lame as crap.
base price $8500 (Score:2)
but if you want enough memory to browse the web, or god forbid run pages. it's gonna cost ya...
Apple Success Inertia (Score:2)
No story here (Score:2)
Apple is just implementing more blocks to actually running their PC OS in emulation.
sounds like Intel ME all over again (Score:2)
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iffTJ1vPCSo [youtube.com]
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Remember, speakers can be used as microphones, so icepick those too.
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Theoretically - most amps pass signal one way, and speakers make poor microphones. It's unlikely Apple would design the thing to use speakers as microphones, but an always-on mic is more likely.
Apple has made a business out of catering to the 90%, not to the 1% who'd icepick their mic.
Re: All audible conversations sent to Apple (Score:2)
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No need to cut wires, it's barbaric. Light it on fire.
Luckily Samsung Note 7 users have that feature built-in to their phones
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This is an iMac, not a laptop. No battery other than the NVRAM backup.
This being said, can Apple, please, please, please NOT glue the screen over the internals of future iMacs. The current models (from 2013+) require a scalpel or pizza cutter to replace anything internal to them!
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This is an iMac, not a laptop. No battery other than the NVRAM backup.
Which is a drawback for those who prefer an internal UPS in a desktop PC, such as because they live in an area with dirty power.
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The 2012 Mac Pro must be the last mac where you could build in such a (rare!) internal UPS. This is not a drawback for anyone but you :D
Re: Another feature NOBODY WANTS. (Score:2)
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Apple was never known to stick around and 3Rd party vendor too long anyways.
The 2005 era when they moved to Intel processors is only an era. Being Apple is now the largest company in the world they may want to use their resources to make their own chips. For good or for bad (depending on your point of view) Apple tends to get what it wants and make a product their way and not like how everyone else does it.
We had a period where the Apple PC were inline with the technology with the other PCs but that is ab
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Probably all you need is slap a RasPi into the whole deal somehow.
I somehow question Apple's ability to make sensible hardware anymore. They forgot everything else that made them stand out and be the pinnacle of user friendliness, why should they still be good at this?
Given how well their more recent developments worked out, you'll probably have to hack, tinker, toy, update, upgrade and send in for repairs a lot anyway, so why not go all the way and just do it yourself from scratch?
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UI Design (Score:2)
GNUstep (Score:2)
GNUstep was supposed to be source-compatible with the OpenStep API and its successor Cocoa, but it wasn't funded enough.
Other way around! (Score:3)
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-Powerful PC at half the Apple price
When I find one I'll let you know.
-Windows 10 Pro
-MS Office
-Visual Studio
-Hyper-V with Linux
Or VMWare Fusion with Windows and Linux virtual machines, and being able to switch from Mac OSX to Windows, to Linux, with a key combo. I like being able to run all three of these operating systems on my laptop at the same time. I'm sure someone has hacked up something to make it work on non-Apple hardware but is that kind of a hack something you want to rely upon for the work that makes you money?
I find it hilarious that people who claim to be highly paid software develo
Re: They stick an ARM processor on the motherboard (Score:2)