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Power The Almighty Buck Transportation

Colorado Taking Steps To Get Its Own Hyperloop (usatoday.com) 98

Posted by BeauHD from the easy-as-1-2-3 dept.
According to USA Today, Colorado's transportation department is looking at the possibility of a Rocky Mountain hyperloop to curb traffic woes. You could travel from Fort Collins to Colorado Springs, a distance of about 125 miles with Denver in the middle, in less than 20 minutes. From the report: After partnering with Virgin Hyperloop One, one of the companies racing to develop the super-speed technology that essentially would transport vehicles and people pods on electric skates in a big pneumatic tube, Colorado Department of Transportation officials plan to spend the next nine months crunching the numbers to determine what it might take to bring this type of transit to Colorado. Above-ground routes are cheaper to build. But Musk's Boring Co., another company testing the technology, has been focusing on hyperloop transportation in tunnels. The proposed Rocky Mountain hyperloop would be centered at Denver International Airport and stretch about 100 miles north to Cheyenne, Wyo.; about 125 miles south to Pueblo, Colo.; and about 100 miles west to Vail, Colo. It carries a hefty $24 billion price tag. State transportation officials estimated it would need an initial investment of $3 billion just to get the first 40 miles from the airport north to Greeley, Colo., completed. Why a hyperloop? State officials estimate Colorado's population will grow by nearly 50% in the next 20 years.
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Colorado Taking Steps To Get Its Own Hyperloop More

Colorado Taking Steps To Get Its Own Hyperloop

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  • because it's a multi-billion dollar boondoggle they can use to line their own pockets with and when the whole thing goes bust unlike a well understood technology like passenger trains they can blame the engineers.

    • State-run DOTs tend to love overly-complicated, expensive boondoggle project like this. It's much more exciting to talk about a hyperloop than boring solutions like "add more roads or railway lines". They spout nonsense like:

      “We cannot build our way out of congestion, and that’s why we’re looking so widely at technology,” Ford said.

      So, instead, they consider building a hyperloop? Nice. All you have to do is read a bit further down to see how they prioritize boondoggle projects versus practical solutions:

      The Colorado Department of Transportation plans to widen the 70 miles of Interstate 25 from Wellington, Colo., to Denver, but that project is slated to be completed in increments with full completion not in sight until 2075.

      • "plans to widen the 70 miles of Interstate 25 from Wellington, Colo., to Denver, but that project is slated to be completed in increments with full completion not in sight until 2075" So Colorado can only build about 1 mile of highway per year? And I thought California was bad at roadwork...

    • ...unlike a well understood technology like passenger trains...

      Um.... I think you underestimate the incompetence of the people likely to be involved. Last year:http://www.cpr.org/news/story/trains-boulder-longmont-still-far-will-be-finished-rtd-says [cpr.org]

      The train to Denver International Airport starts next week. It's the first of four lines opening this year in the metro area. But none of them will go to Boulder and Longmont, even though residents there have paid hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes with the promise of getting rail service

      This year: http://www.denverpost.com/2017/04/23/longmont-long-delayed-fastracks-line/ [denverpost.com]

      Former Longmont Mayor Julia Pirnack is firmly in the no-compromise camp. She is trying to get $5,000 together so that a former Colorado Secretary of State Scott Gessler can explore whether anyone can viably sue the Regional Transportation District for the lack of a train in Longmont. Pirnack said in an interview earlier this month that since she was one of the people who pushed for Longmont to vote for FasTracks in 2004, she feels that RTD made a liar out of her because the commuter line promised in the FasTracks plan is currently not planned to reach Longmont until 2042.

      Doubtless they're planning on finishing the Great Colorado Hyperloop sometime in the latter part of the aeon.

      • Train politics are nuts. You have large land owners who want lobby for lines and stops on their land so they can reap the benefits of land value increase. You have towns that all want stops, or multiple stops, you have the construction business lobbying for anything to build, you have politicians wanting to make everyone happy, use the train plan as leverage, or just get their cut.

        All that and more, the last thing actually prioritized is the cost benefit case, and even when that is spelled out, almost al
        • The land owner problem is another reason I love the skyTran solution:

          http://www.skytran.com/ [skytran.com]

          It builds right along current roadways so no issues with getting any new access permissions...:)

          skyTran is simply a far better solution than Hyperloop and I wish it would get more exposure and consideration.
          • I've often wondered why elevated monorail type systems are not being seriously pursued. I've not looked into it but there must be reasons. I assume operational cost and throughput capacity are part of the problem. It sure does minimize footprint.
          • I think self-driving cars may ultimately be the solution to moving more people faster. They can use existing roadways, tech hurdles get resolved over time, so we don't have a huge commit before we get to the good part. Self driving cars will be able to move more people faster and more safely.
      • On top of all the taxes we pay to have these lines constructed, don't forget that we have to pay a fare of eight US dollars per day to ride the train.

  • Stargate (Score:4, Funny)

    by WrongMonkey ( 1027334 ) on Tuesday October 31, 2017 @07:33PM (#55466871)
    Why don't they build a Stargate to solve their traffic problems? I know Stargates don't exist, but neither does a hyperloop. If you're going waste money on imaginary concepts, dream big!

    • Re:Stargate (Score:4, Informative)

      by Jeremi ( 14640 ) on Tuesday October 31, 2017 @08:22PM (#55467087) Homepage

      One minor difference: we know how to build a Hyperloop. There aren't any new scientific principles at play there, it's only a matter of engineering.

      Stargate technology, OTOH, is a bit more nebulous at this point :)

      • Some people *claim* to know how to build a Hyperloop. Da Vinci has some pretty convincing designs for flying machines, but it was still a few hundred years later before all the details were worked out. Until you can show an operating prototype, its still just theoretical.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by whit3 ( 318913 )

          Some people *claim* to know how to build a Hyperloop. ... Until you can show an operating prototype, its still just theoretical.

          Weak argument, that. Firstly, there's Brunel's "atmosperic railway" of yesteryear, with a few very similar features.

          Then there's the snide dig at 'just theoretical'. All the ideas of mankind start that way.

          Would you stand next to the gadget at the Trinity test? Some people "claimed" it would go ... boom.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by AC-x ( 735297 )

            Firstly, there's Brunel's "atmosperic railway" of yesteryear, with a few very similar features.

            You're thinking of Vactrains [wikipedia.org], not Brunel's atmosperic railway which is just a conventional train pulled by pneumatic power.

      • Bullshit.

        We know how to make wormholes. It's just a matter of compressing spacetime.
        Making spacetime surrounding the wormhole not compress and making the compressed path between the endpoints not fuck up anything you care about is just engineering.

        Get enough super dense matter together and build a tube from point A way up into the sky and then back down to point B. That path will will have spacetime compressed as shit. Then you need to build some sort of shell outside the tube to counteract the effect of

    • Re:Stargate (Score:5, Funny)

      by alzoron ( 210577 ) on Tuesday October 31, 2017 @09:12PM (#55467297) Journal

      Colorado Springs is one of the cities in the route, they already have a stargate. They need a hyperloop to get people to the stargate.

    • But people want to use the stargate!
      To get to the stargate from the surrounding cities, you need a hyperloop!

  • But how do you get around once you get there? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by El Cubano ( 631386 ) on Tuesday October 31, 2017 @07:38PM (#55466887)

    You could travel from Fort Collins to Colorado Springs, a distance of about 125 miles with Denver in the middle, in less than 20 minutes.

    There was an effort in Florida to try to get light rail from Miami to Tampa. In my mind the biggest obstacle was transportation once you get to the destination. I could understand something like this between two major cities with top notch mass transit, like New York and Boston. However, I don't think Fort Collins and Colorado Springs fit the bill, same as Miami and Tampa. Tell people "we can get you from CIty A to City B and then all you have to do is rent a car when you get there" is not going to get a ton of support. It works for air travel because the cost of a rental car is usually a small fraction of the airfare. However, for an economical light rail/hyperloop setup, the rental car cost now probably exceeds the long haul transport cost.

    • Why not Uber?? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by SuperKendall ( 25149 )

      If you went from Denver to Ft Collins, or Pueblo, or Colorado Springs it would likely be for an event. So you'd just take an Uber or a taxi to your final destination, just like people do with light rail today..

      Or - is it a coincidence that Musk also makes self-driving cars? I think not. What if every Hyperloop terminal had a fleet of self driving cars passengers could use as taxis? The hub could be well set up for rapid charging, there would not have to be any driver.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Ownership of cars is going to start going away, and by-the-hour on-the-street rentals will become more prevalent. This goes hand-in-hand with public long distance rapid transit.

  • Hyperloop or no hyper loop there isn't enough water to sustain that sort of growth.

  • Mountain traffic Colorado is just getting crazier and crazier, it would take you 2 Hours to drive to Vail and about five coming back (not joking).

    A hyper loop would help things all around. Tons of people would take it even just because of the time, much less the ease of getting back.

    Both People and Cayenne would also benefit tremendously. They have a lot of tourist attractions but are just far enough away from Denver most people do not make the trip.

    Hyperloop for the Rocky Mountains would make make the who

  • "I'll build my own hyperloop. With blackjack! And hookers!"

  • Given the insane numbers we see for building hyperloop, we can wonder how much a ticket will cost.

    And if it is too expensive, it will not replace car

    • Monorail... monorail... monorail!

      I would love to see futuristic affordable super-fast transport become a thing in my lifetime. However, I strongly suspect the whole hyperloop fad will burn out due to economic infeasibility, and a few places will get badly burned when their initial investments into implementing this ultimately go nowhere.

  • While we do have issues here with traffic but there are too many questions / issues:
    - If they build above ground, the area near DIA up to Greeley is the west edge of tornado alley, what are the considerations about running it through that area? Weld county has a high volume of storms in late spring. Of course if it were in tunnels it would be safer (as far as weather is concerned) but more expensive.
    - Where will it fit on the way to Vail? another thing to crowd out I-70?
    - Will this violate the deal Colorado

  • They have mountains. Just build a giant slide.

    • It would be interesting to build an induction road for electric vehicles, to have the descending vehicles boost the power of the ascending ones.

      Upbound traffic could draw power from the road to reduce battery drain, while downward traffic could dump power into the road from regenerative breaking keeping them below the speed limit. And throw in a couple of commercial battery installations to keep things steadier.

      In essence, average out the power requirements (less losses in the road and vehicle systems).

  • Non Sequitor (Score:3)

    by nsuccorso ( 41169 ) on Wednesday November 01, 2017 @07:30AM (#55468519)
    "Why a hyperloop? State officials estimate Colorado's population will grow by nearly 50% in the next 20 years."

    Why a duck? The state flower of Colorado is the Venus Flytrap.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by slew ( 2918 )

      "Why a hyperloop? State officials estimate Colorado's population will grow by nearly 50% in the next 20 years."

      Why a duck? The state flower of Colorado is the Venus Flytrap.

      I'm alright, how are you? I'm a stranger here myself, but you see we need this "duck" to avoid the mousetrap [wikipedia.org]...

      As for the state flower of Colorado, based on these types of "projects", I think it's already weed... ;^(

  • Colorado cannot even build a light-rail that work. They also cannot build a baggage handling system.

  • There's no air in Denver, the thing should be able to run without the tube.

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