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Software Transportation Hardware Technology

DJI Threatens To 'Brick' Its Copters Unless Owners Agree To Share Their Details (thesun.co.uk) 192

Posted by BeauHD from the draconian-step dept.
schwit1 quotes a report from The Sun: A top drone manufacturer has warned that customers' expensive gadgets will be crippled if they don't register their details on its website. DJI drones -- which cost between $1,200 and $3,000 -- won't be able to fly to their full potential or beam back footage if their owners don't sign up next week, the company warned. Those who splashed out for the snazzy gadgets will find they are limited to a teensy 50m radius and it won't be flying higher than 30m if they don't play ball. The company said on its website: "DJI will soon introduce a new application activation process for international customers. This new step, to take effect at the end of next week, ensures you will use the correct set of geospatial information and flight functions for your aircraft, as determined by your geographical location and user profile. All existing flight safety limitations, such as geofencing boundaries and altitude limits, remain the same. Even if you have registered when activating your aircraft upon purchase, you will have to log in once when you update the new version of DJI GO or GO 4 App."
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DJI Threatens To 'Brick' Its Copters Unless Owners Agree To Share Their Details More

DJI Threatens To 'Brick' Its Copters Unless Owners Agree To Share Their Details

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  • In The News (Score:5, Funny)

    by fyngyrz ( 762201 ) on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @05:04PM (#54472937) Homepage Journal

    Dateline 2018:

    In other news, DJI sales dropped off to near nothing, and the company filed for bankruptcy today. The unexplained failure of customers to buy an intentionally crippled product was cited as the primary reason for the company's failure.

    Angry stockholders had to be prevented from physically assaulting the corporate board, who were seen running to their limousines behind heavy security.

    • Dateline 2018:

      In other news, DJI sales dropped off to near nothing, and the company filed for bankruptcy today. The unexplained failure of customers to buy an intentionally crippled product was cited as the primary reason for the company's failure.

      Angry stockholders had to be prevented from physically assaulting the corporate board, who were seen running to their limousines behind heavy security.

      Crippling their product then their stockholders? Nice.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Nutria ( 679911 )

      I bet you thought that geo-fencing was a good idea, until the reality of geo-fencing slapped you like a wet tuna. Now you whine and bitch.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by stooo ( 2202012 )

      >> geofencing boundaries

      HAHAHAHAHA.
      "geofencing boundaries".
      HAHAHAHAHA.

    • I'm in the market for a drone, though to be honest I probably won't buy until black friday.

      I am now 100% sure it will not be a DJI product, even after they reverse this idiotic decision next week.

    • Re:In The News (Score:5, Interesting)

      by NewtonsLaw ( 409638 ) on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @08:50PM (#54474273)

      DJI are cunning like a fox. Since the FAA's compulsory registration scheme has been nixed by the courts, DJI realizes that if it implements its own compulsory registration scheme (via the mechanism just announced), they can go to the FAA and say "we've got your back".

      There is already huge concern in the industry that DJI collects so much data about your flights and then reserves the right (it's in the TOS to which you agree) to send that data back to its servers in China!

      By collecting all this data and demanding mandatory registration of customers (if they want their drones to fly "as advertised") then DJI can provide the FAA (and other law-enforcement agencies) with an astounding amount of detail whenever there's an "incident report" that involves one of their craft.

      The ultimate outcome of this is probably that the FAA will grant special concessions to DJI which will allow their customers to do things that other drone users will not. This may well be in the form of a "certified drone" accreditation which provides exemptions from some of the more onerous new rules that are to come if the FAA manages to convince the Senate to overturn section 336 of the 2012 Modernization and Reform Act.

      Personally, I'm more than happy with DJI's move -- because I build all my own craft and therefore am not reliant in the least on them.

      Another positive is that this might encourage others to start learning more about drone technology and build their own craft rather than just buying a turnkey solution from DJI. Learning about the technology makes you a safer operator because you better understand the strengths/weaknesses of the gear and you are also more aware of the importance of preventative and remedial maintenance for for the purposes of safety.

    • I'm pretty sure there are laws that cover situations like this where you suddenly have to agree to some kind of new restrictions or things, you can cancel or ask for and receive and immediate full refund. (ianal) You see this with phone contracts a lot, though the phone companies try to keep it quiet, but it covers a heck of lot more than just that.
      I'd give that a shot. Sure, you won't have that R/C toy anymore, but you'll get your money back and can buy a competitors, or wait until this DJI pulls their hea

      • Didn't work for PS3 owners who wanted to continue to run Linux on their PS3s, which was an advertised feature when they bought them. Not in the US, anyway; retailers in Europe frequently had to give partial refunds.

    • I was really impressed by the new Mavic Pro and was about to fork out $1600 to buy one. But I cannot support behaviour such as this, so will spend my money elsewhere. DJI is dead to me now.

  • Mislabeled (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Notabadguy ( 961343 ) on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @05:04PM (#54472941)

    Summary should read, "A former top drone manufacturer..."

    There's nothing better for your competitors than fucking your customers.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      DJI has been screwing customers for a long time, this is only a relatively small step up. They make it pretty hard to use their products with data about you and your activities flowing back to them.

      The thing is, they make really good drones. It's like how most expensive cars have really, really, really shitty infotainment systems and try their best to fuck you over by demanding genuine parts and dealer-only unlock codes when they are replaced. Yet people still buy them, because if you want a powerful car th

  • You keep using that word ... (Score:5, Informative)

    by ScentCone ( 795499 ) on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @05:08PM (#54472953)
    That's not what "brick" means. And the summary's assertion that people will have to sign up by next week doesn't even survive the rest of the summary, where it's made clear that the issue only comes up if you decide to change the firmware and companion app you're using. If you don't change them, there's NO CHANGE. If you DO change them, they want to pair the user of the device with a known account. Because they need to CYA should somebody do something especially douchey with one of their flying robots.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Calydor ( 739835 )

      Is updating the app something you choose to do willingly, something you 'choose' to do like updating to Win10 by clicking the red X, or something that happens the moment your cell phone (I assume the app runs on a cell phone?) has a data connection?

      • Re:You keep using that word ... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by ScentCone ( 795499 ) on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @07:31PM (#54473837)
        There are plenty of people who deliberately operate their DJI gear on older firmware and alongside an older app on their phone/tablet ... with that device in "airplane" mode to avoid any internet awareness. Of course that also costs you all sorts of nice mapping features and other goodies, but it just comes down to your priorities.

    • It's about making sure you can't free your drone from surveillance.

      • It's about making sure you can't free your drone from surveillance.

        Actually, it's to put a system in place to be able to track drones back to users in order to dissuade you from considering using a drone to video record that which the authorities don't want the public to see. Criminals in government avoid accountability and the Chinese get tons of US data for which I'm sure they donated to the appropriate politician-owned "think-tank", private charity organization, etc etc...basically the slush-fund of those politicians that help implement such a system.

        Strat

    • Mod parent up! Where are my mod points when I need some?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by JanneM ( 7445 )

      That's not what "brick" means.

      Words mean whatever its users decide they mean. You are aware, I hope, that "brick" didn't mean anything related to computing, right? Somewhere there's a bunch of annoyed bricklayers fuming about how the nerds are using the word all wrong.

      • Yeah, OK, you're trolling. But for those who don't recognize that ... we use "bricked" to describe the brick-like usefulness of a device that has been rendered not only unusable but generally un-fixable by its user.

      • Somewhere there's a bunch of annoyed bricklayers fuming about how the nerds are using the word all wrong.

        Or... there's a bunch of bricklayers who aren't annoyed or fuming, who are constucting structurally unsound buildings out of manufacturer-disabled laptops, smartphones and, now, drones.

    • That's not what "brick" means.

      It's an article in "The Sun". They don't know what most words mean especially if they have more than one syllable. It has been shown [bbc.com] that reading The Sun or other tabloids results in a worse vocabulary than not reading any newspaper and if you want to gauge their level have a look at their toughest words in the dictionary quiz [thesun.co.uk]. It is frankly rather sad that Slashdot is linking to such a wholly unreliable source.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I thought that there were no worst device that "cloud exclusive hardware" that even if you paid the price for it, you will depend always on the manufacturer cloud for those devices to work. But this case is the winner, follow up by John Deer.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by stooo ( 2202012 )

      A "cloud exclusive hardware" as a drone will not be able to film anything, except a dizzy white screen.
      And you cannot even use it in the sun

  • a couple of years ago when the Canadian dollar was stronger. It's all I need.

  • And you wanted a cloud (Score:4, Insightful)

    by U8MyData ( 1281010 ) on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @05:13PM (#54473001)
    There is no real ownership of anything anymore. I'll be really surprised when you have to agree to a EULA upon entering this messed up world. Unbelievable.

    • I'll be really surprised when you have to agree to a EULA upon entering this messed up world.

      Some philosophers (since at least Rousseau in 1762) call it "The Social Contract". They allege you "sign" it by existing, trading away some of your freedom for alleged benefits from interacting with the "society" composed of the others around you. They use it to justify the State imposing controls on individuals.

      Think of it as an invisible shrink-wrap agreement on your amniotic sac.

      This, of course, bends the conce

  • Someone hasn't learned the lesson of Sony (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Pliny ( 12671 ) on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @05:14PM (#54473005) Homepage

    The PS3 wan't jailbroken until Sony tried removing features. This is going to lead to some great advancements in open source drone firmware.

    • Re:Someone hasn't learned the lesson of Sony (Score:4, Informative)

      by saider ( 177166 ) on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @05:33PM (#54473131)

      ArduPilot [ardupilot.org] - open source drone firmware

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by janoc ( 699997 )

      Not really, there is plenty of open source drone firmware and controller boards that is both more capable and not crippled by stuff like geofencing around already. And there has been plenty of it before DJI even started to sell their toys. DJI didn't invent a multicopter nor were the first to put camera on it.

      This will do nothing for any software development - most people buying these things are amateur/semipro filmmakers that don't know how (and don't want) to tinker with the radios or firmware.

      And then ri

    • This is going to lead to some great advancements in open source drone firmware.

      Actually drones are one of the areas where the open source world has been technically above their closed source counterparts. We don't need any more advancements.

  • Sadly, here's how they make it stick (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Catbeller ( 118204 ) on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @05:26PM (#54473075) Homepage

    Here's how this works for them in the end:

    THE FREE MARKET! As in There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Market.

      ** Every other drone manufacturer requires that you do the same. The end. **

    It's how we have encrypted BIOS, encrypted car engine diagnostics, and cell phones that don't have manual cutoffs on the camera and mic. How we have no choice in internet and cell phones providers when it comes to privacy. They just copy each other's requirements. Emergent multopoly.

  • Unless bricks actually can fly 30m high and in a 50m radius.

  • Something about DJI (Score:3)

    by spire3661 ( 1038968 ) on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @05:42PM (#54473181) Journal
    I have always felt that DJI was way to eager to embrace regulations and exert factory control over the drones. Geofencing should be a warning, It should be up to the operator to proceed or not. No pilot would accept an airplane that simply refused to fly arbitrary places.

  • Demand a refund! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @05:43PM (#54473189)

    Demand a refund!

    Call, ask for the process to get a full refund since these terms and conditions weren't known at the time of sale.

    Make it a hassle for the company. The bigger the hassle, the better.

  • Nothing new here (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @05:45PM (#54473197)

    The DJI Go app already collects location, phone numbers, live flight metrics, serial numbers, and other data. And you need to sign up and let the app forward all that data to DJI at least once to "activate" a drone (they come deactivated and won't fly until you do it). Fortunately, the application itself, or at least the Android version of it, is written in a rather crappy way by kindergarten-grade programmers, and all their pathetic attempts to obfuscate data before it goes to China are trivial to bypass. The app also uses static hardcoded encryption keys, so whoever intercepts its traffic in transit can easily decrypt it.

    Somebody with skills and time should look at the firmware itself. The history says that most of the Chinese devices have laughable if any protection and it should be possible to customize the firmware.

    Meanwhile the recommendations are: 1. do not DJI Go on your phone. Use a tablet that does not have cell/mobile network connectivity or sensitive data on it. 2. Do not upgrade or update firmware unnecessarily. 3. Complain as much as possible online, including to regulatory bodies (FTC, etc.) to encourage DJI to change their idiotic policies.

  • Two words for DJI (Score:3)

    by jenningsthecat ( 1525947 ) on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @05:47PM (#54473217)

    Fuck. Off.

    By forcing people to register, DJI can alter the drone’s settings dependant on where the customer lives. That means it can make sure drones are flying by rules set by each nation.

    Soon, phone and tablet manufacturers will push out updates to prevent you from taking pictures that might be considered pornographic, sacrilegious, or disrespectful to God or some other supreme leader in the jurisdiction you happen to be in. And when you move to a different jurisdiction, any such 'violations' already on your device will automatically be erased.

    Many commenters so far have talked about how DJI is going to have their asses handed to them by their current and potential customers. What most here are missing is that this is the wave of the very near future - it's a trend, and it shows no signs of reversing. We truly live in a corporatocracy, and it's getting more and more entrenched, more invasive, and bolder by the day. Even if DJI loses this one, it's just a skirmish in a much bigger war that we are currently losing, and losing badly. When we lose control over the things we buy, we lose ownership, and everything we have is rented. Losing control over our own lives and our own destinies won't be far behind.

  • Because this is how you raise an army of cyberpunks.

  • Why is an article in The Sun linked on the main page?

    Surely the same information (from a press release, right?) is available somewhere else. . . To save you the trouble of reading my entire post, I can say that I FOUND NOTHING LIKE THIS SUN ARTICLE'S IMPLICATION anywhere. It is the usual for the Sun – making shit up to fill the pages.

    I wasted a good bit of time looking for a verifying source. Nothing. The closest I can find is that for purchasers in New Zealand, the product warranty is not valid

    • Re:The Sun is not a source (Score:4, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @06:39PM (#54473559)

      I found the official announcement on the DJI forums, posted by DJI Joe. Took me about a minute, but I'd never been to the site before.

      Hate to say it, but this time Sun's got it about half right. The next round of firmware / apps will require you to register to download appropriate GEO info for your location, or the device will be restricted in height and range.

      They don't answer what happens if you try to fly it somewhere you weren't registered from however. While the company is almost certainly engaging in CYA mode, it seems that this is a knee-jerk "least possible" response.

      • I found the official announcement on the DJI forums, posted by DJI Joe. Took me about a minute, but I'd never been to the site before.

        Hate to say it, but this time Sun's got it about half right. The next round of firmware / apps will require you to register to download appropriate GEO info for your location, or the device will be restricted in height and range.

        They don't answer what happens if you try to fly it somewhere you weren't registered from however. While the company is almost certainly engaging in CYA mode, it seems that this is a knee-jerk "least possible" response.

        In the online forums? Not the "publication of record" that a company usually chooses, eh?

        I can see the CYA angle. Absolutely. But the issue is something best handled by regulation, not by vendor-first action. They could have handled the CYA in a less Orwellian manner.

    • Aside from the warranty policy being illegal in NZ there's discussions on the forum as well as many people who have received the same email.

      Just because ${business_killing_thing} isn't displayed on ${evil_company_front_page} doesn't make something anything less true.

      • Aside from the warranty policy being illegal in NZ there's discussions on the forum as well as many people who have received the same email.

        Just because ${business_killing_thing} isn't displayed on ${evil_company_front_page} doesn't make something anything less true.

        My point was that The Sun is an unreliable source, meaning I withhold judgment until confirmation of the ${business_killing_thing} from an independent, second source. Responding to a 'fake news' article would be a waste of everyone's time.

        The AC above found confirmation in their forums. Now we know it is a real thing. Confirmed, so discuss the topic if you have input. It sure as hell ought to be discussed––what an idiotic thing for a company to do... in many ways, which the main thread cover

    • It's by schwit1. All his stuff is drivel. Sometimes he wildly exaggerates, sometimes he gets hold of the wrong end of the stick, and for the rest he just plain lies.

      He went quiet for a while, but it appears they've let him out.

  • This claim of geofencing your DJI drone unless you register is bogus. Made-up. Fiction. Sensationalist rumor-mongering.

    See my other post for details.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by kbg ( 241421 )

      Not made up:

      "If this activation process is not performed, the aircraft will not have access to the correct geospatial information and flight functions for that region, and its operations will be restricted if you update the upcoming firmware: Live camera streaming will be disabled, and flight will be limited to a 50-meter (164-foot) radius up to 30 meters (98 feet) high."

      http://www.dji.com/newsroom/ne... [dji.com]

  • Well gee whiz, guess what brand of drone I won't be buying?

    That's right, fuck you, DJI.

    I also expect that this firmware bullshit will be hacked back into full functionality before very long.

  • Here's the email DJI sent out (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @06:40PM (#54473575)

    I very recently bought and paid for a DJI Mavic Pro. I received an email from DJI 2 days ago about this. Here's the email:

    Dear Customers,

    DJI will soon introduce a new application activation process for international customers. This new step, to take effect at the end of this week, ensures you will use the correct set of geospatial information and flight functions for your aircraft, as determined by your geographical location and user profile. All existing flight safety limitations, such as geofencing boundaries and altitude limits, remain the same.

    Even if you have registered when activating your aircraft upon purchase, you will have to log in once when you update the new version of DJI GO or GO 4 App. If you have forgotten your password since your initial login, you can reset it using a function within the DJI GO and DJI GO 4 apps.

    You will need a data connection to the Internet for your smartphone or tablet when you log in, in order to verify the account information and activate the updated software or firmware. If this activation process is not performed, the aircraft will not have access to the correct geospatial information and flight functions for that region, and its operations will be restricted if you update the upcoming firmware: Live camera streaming will be disabled, and flight will be limited to a 50-meter (164-foot) radius up to 30 meters (98 feet) high.

    The feature applies to all aircraft (except standalone A3 and N3) that have been upgraded to the latest firmware or when using future versions of the DJI GO and GO 4 apps.

    DJI encourages pilots to always follow applicable laws and regulations in the countries where they operate, and provides information about these regulations on its FlySafe website at flysafe.dji.com.

    Sincerely,

    Your DJI Team

  • I build my own aircrafts and use only open source firmware on the flight controllers. I thank all the developers of dRonin ground station and firmware for making this possible.
  • Because I cannot think of any way other than requiring connectivity to operate that this could ever actually be enforced. What if you want to operate it while camping where you have no connectivity in the first place?
  • Consumer law in NZ is pretty good, DJI may end up licking their wounds
  • I'm at a loss as to why everyone seems so furious about this. Aside from the basic "well it's mine and I do with it whatever I want", which is categorically untrue for all aircraft, I fail to see how this limits on really harms the user in any way. What nefarious purpose is this registration going to serve? If someone could enlighten me I'd really be interested to know.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sl3xd ( 111641 )

      Aside from the basic "well it's mine and I do with it whatever I want", which is categorically untrue for all aircraft

      Never forget that John Adams - one of the founding fathers, the 2nd POTUS, co-author of the Declaration of Independence, argued in court (and won) that British soldiers were justified in opening fire on a crowd for throwing 'snowballs.' Courts have more or less followed that line of reasoning ever since -- even throwing popcorn is assault and can get you jail time.

  • I guess I'm not now

  • Upgradeable and I don't have to deal with this draconian bs.

  • OSS means they cant control your product.
    If your drone does not use one of the OSS drone pilot software systems, then it's a piece of poo.

  • I was thinking of geting a DJI Phantom 4, no more. No more DJI products at all, for ever for me and anybody who cares to ask me for advise (as a local "guru" on tech. stuff many do).
  • I was considering a DJI but I'll go with Walkera instead.

  • Maybe this is because it's a Chinese made product but you'd think DJI would think that maybe giving the customer the ultimate choice on what their product can't and can do? I've heard that their drones are already limited to 500m for altitude which for most uses is plenty but runs into problems when folks are staying close to the ground hugging mountains over 500m. They really should adopt more of a "warning policy" in that the system should warn you that you're exceeding limits with a disclaimer. After

  • The released a new version of their "Capture" app which was changed so that you couldn't control the camera without logging into the GoPro site first.

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