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Microsoft Windows Software Hardware Technology

New Processors Are Now Blocked From Receiving Updates On Old Windows (arstechnica.com) 238

halfEvilTech writes: Last year, Microsoft announced they were planning on blocking OS updates on newer Intel CPU's, namely the 7th Generation Kaby Lake processors. Ars Technica reports: "Now, the answer appears to be 'this month.' Users of new processors running old versions of Windows are reporting that their updates are being blocked. The block means that systems using these processors are no longer receiving security updates." While Windows 7 has already ended mainstream support, the same can't be said for Windows 8.1 which is still on mainstream support until January of next year.
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New Processors Are Now Blocked From Receiving Updates On Old Windows

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  • by p51d007 ( 656414 ) on Thursday April 13, 2017 @04:25PM (#54230999)
    Keep it up...and you'll push more and more people to either keep their current PC's, or switch to alternative processors and computers. MS wants ALL PC's running windows 10...once they figure they can't push any further, they will start their subscription service.
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Can someone recommend a Linux distro where basic stuff like the mouse wheel works properly? Now that OPAL v2 is getting proper support I really want to switch.

      I'm not a noob, I use Linux servers and embedded systems all the time, but the two desktops I tried recently (Mint Cinnamon and Ubuntu) were broken and/or generally sucked. I don't want to waste time trying them all if I can help it.

      • by raymorris ( 2726007 ) on Thursday April 13, 2017 @05:32PM (#54231459) Journal

        "broken and/or generally sucked" isn't nearly specific enough for me to know what you didn't like and what you might like instead. I also have no indication of your use case. Are you primarily doing network and security testing (consider Kali), gaming, music and multimedia production? What I can do is point out three general concepts or guidelines.

        Different distributions have a very different balance between cutting edge new features and reliability. For example, nothing goes into Red Hat / CentOS until it has first been proven reliable on Fedora for a couple of years. Fedora has brand new stuff, which may not be as polished and reliable; CentOS has time-tested stuff that works. Fedora has frequent upgrades and doesn't maintain support for old versions. Red Hat / CentOS isn't meant to be upgraded as often, they support old versions much longer. Figure out what you want on that spectrum. That relates to the next guideline.

        You said you use Linux servers "all the time". Probably those servers are using a stable distro such as CentOS. If you are very familiar with one distro because it's on all your servers, consider using the distro you already know on your desktop too. Even if you take a couple hours getting all your specific hardware configured just how you like it, avoiding the learning curve of a new distro may be worth it.

        Someone who produces music for a living will probably prefer a very different distro or spin than someone who does network penetration testing. Consider looking at spins or distros designed for your specific use-case. Even if your use case isn't that specific, some distros are designed for newbies coming from Windows, and make easy things easy by presenting limited options. Others are designed for more advanced users who want to tinker and set their multiple mouse wheels to trigger different actions depending on context. Android and Chrome OS vs Debian are extreme examples. ChromeOS is super easy and everything just works, correctly. Of course "everything" is basically "the browser". Debian can run my custom-designed PCI-E card much easier than Chrome OS can. Figure out your use case, then research or ask in an appropriate forum.

        The corollary to the above is that any answers to "what's the best Linux distribution" are probably wrong, for your needs. Cent OS meets MY needs quite well, but my needs may be totally different from your needs. I don't give a damn about nifty eye candy like translucent windows and window animations. I turn that shit off anyway for better performance and memory usage. Maybe you are an artsy, visual type of person and you love window animations.

        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          by Zenin ( 266666 )

          *puts on flameproof suit*

          And that crazy flow-chart of decisions that need to be worked through before it's even worth investing time into a given distro enough to learn it well enough that you know why it's not actually going to work for you after all and you need to start the whole asinine process over again... It's precisely why Linux of any flavor makes for a horribly sad excuse of a desktop.

          The real flow chart is much simplier than you're describing: If what you want to do is dick around with your OS

          • *puts on flameproof suit*

            And that crazy flow-chart of decisions that need to be worked through before it's even worth investing time into a given distro enough to learn it well enough that you know why it's not actually going to work for you after all and you need to start the whole asinine process over again...

            No flame unless you tell me of the crazy flow chart of decisions that you have to make.

            when I install say Mint, I plug in the thumb drive or use a liveCD for an older computer, Boot, and click on install, or a couple more clicks if I'm doing dual boot. If there is a question regarding the particular computer I let the thing boot to desktop off the thumb drive. Then I sit back and let it roll until it gets to setup.

            When was the last time you installed Linux, and what version was it? Your description do

            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              by mrchaotica ( 681592 ) *

              when I install say Mint

              Which Mint? Cinnamon, MATE, Xfce, KDE, LDME Cinnamon, or LDME MATE?

              • when I install say Mint

                Which Mint? Cinnamon, MATE, Xfce, KDE, LDME Cinnamon, or LDME MATE?

                I've done Cinnamon, Mate Xfce and KDE. I'm most familiar with Cinnamon.

                The major difference is some of the windows and other minutiae. The core is Minty fresh. Cinnamon Mint for the wife on her touch screen laptop. She won't let me experiment on that computer.

                Lately I've been installing and using Ubuntu Mate for myself, mainly because I can use it across a wide range of my computers, and it works pretty well and fast too.

                I have an HP Envy I want to install dual boot when I get the time. It's both

                • I think you might have missed my point.

                  Zenin was complaining about the "crazy flow-chart of decisions" you have to go through when deciding to use Linux. You replied, essentially, "just use Mint." But my point is that even that relatively-simple advice implies deciding between six different options before you even get to run the installer!

                  (Note that I'm not even counting the decisions that are "easy" because they're not opinion-based, such as deciding between 32- or 64-bit and whether to use the .torrent or

                  • I think you might have missed my point.

                    Zenin was complaining about the "crazy flow-chart of decisions" you have to go through when deciding to use Linux. You replied, essentially, "just use Mint." But my point is that even that relatively-simple advice implies deciding between six different options before you even get to run the installer!

                    (Note that I'm not even counting the decisions that are "easy" because they're not opinion-based, such as deciding between 32- or 64-bit and whether to use the .torrent or pick one of the 99 (I counted) mirrors. And that's for an "easy" distro -- heaven help you if you're a n00b who got told "just use Debian" instead! "'s390x-netinst?' WTF is this shit?")

                    I know exactly what you meant. However, considering the different sub-versions of Mint as somehow a bridge too far to decide upon is the sort of concept that makes a two mouse click an unsufferable crime upon humanity. Mint Cinnamon will work essentially the same as any of the others. And if you look closely many of the distros are designed for certain purposes. like video, or sound.If that's too much trouble you can install the same software later.

                    It's odd that by this time, people don't understand that

                    • by mrchaotica ( 681592 ) * on Thursday April 13, 2017 @11:09PM (#54232619)

                      However, considering the different sub-versions of Mint as somehow a bridge too far to decide upon is the sort of concept that makes a two mouse click an unsufferable crime upon humanity.

                      Maybe so, but there are plenty of people -- like my baby-boomer parents -- who can barely even handle one button! Should we doom them to Windows spyware and exploitation just because they don't meet your condescending, elitist expectation of tech-savviness?

                      More to the point, even technical users shouldn't have to deal with every tiny detail, all the time. I'm a goddamn professional software engineer and even I don't want to deal with it! I got most of that shit out of my system running Gentoo in college.

                      Fundamentally, it's an issue of human interface design and cognitive load. A good user interface helps the user focus on things that he cares about and not waste effort on the things he doesn't. In the vast majority of cases, forcing the user to make a decision without suggesting a default choice means the designer was failing to do his damn job. Take the Linux Mint download page, for instance: would it have killed them to just pick one of the editions -- it doesn't even matter which, despite the desktop environment Holy Wars -- and put it in a larger font or add an arrow or something to denote "if you don't know what the difference is between these, pick this one?" Just one little note on the page would make all the difference.

                      This article explains the issue better. [codinghorror.com]

                      I wonder, do you only use all defaults on your Windows machine?

                      Mostly yes, actually. You know why? Because -- aside from laziness -- having a consistent experience, where I can walk up to any other random Windows machine (at least of the same version) and know that it will work the same as my usual one instead of getting pissed off that my custom keyboard shortcuts don't work, is more important than wringing out that last 0.5% of optimization. Here's a quote from Joel Spolsky (also referenced in the link above) about it:

                      Most advanced users use several computers regularly; they upgrade their computer every couple of years, they reinstall their operating system every three weeks. It's true that the first time they realized you could completely remap the keyboard in Word, they changed everything around to be more to their liking, but as soon as they upgraded to Windows 95 those settings got lost, and they weren't the same at work, and eventually they just stopped reconfiguring things. I've asked a lot of my "power user" friends about this; hardly any of them do any customization other than the bare minimum necessary to make their system behave reasonably.

                      (I do change the important settings, of course, such as disabling Microsoft's attempts to shanghai the system with forced "upgrades" and telemetry.)

          • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            Well said. At this stage it's still easier for me to use Windows, even V10, and spend half an hour sabotaging all the tracking and forced updates. There are handy apps and guides on how to do it.

            In comparison I spent an hour or more just trying to get the mouse wheel to work on Mint Cinnamon, and then realised it was impossible. Maybe I could start over and try another distro.

            I'm starting to think that few people do anything really serious with the Linux desktop. The shell is amazing, as a server it's amazi

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          By broken I that the mouse wheel works reasonably in some apps but in others (like Chrome) it's ridiculously slow and there is no preference panel to change it. I tried a few hacks I found on Stack Exchange but none worked, and installing Smooth Scrolling in Chrome just made the wheel randomly not work at all.

          I don't know what unity is supposed to be... In fairness, I think i picked a bad one there. Ubuntu isn't representative of the Linux desktop in general.

          Task wise it's mainly workstation stuff. Lots of

          • By broken I that the mouse wheel works reasonably in some apps but in others (like Chrome) it's ridiculously slow and there is no preference panel to change it. I tried a few hacks I found on Stack Exchange but none worked, and installing Smooth Scrolling in Chrome just made the wheel randomly not work at all.

            Sumpin's off, because the mouse scrolling is such an ancient thing it's hard to imagine any distro having an issue. I'm noe certain that it isn't a Chrome application issue rather than Linux.

            • I've used many different mice with many different laptops running many different flavors of Linux, and never had an issue with a scroll wheel. Troll above? It does happen. Otherwise, majorly misguided at best.

            • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

              Maybe. On Windows it does whatever the mouse wheel is set to do in Windows. On Linux it seems that every app has to decide for itself and most don't have any way to configure it.

          • As you may know from your research, there are several causes that can result in poor scrolling in Chrome, on every operating system. Did you test in Incognito mode?

            • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

              It's because there is no way to tell it to scroll more than one line or wheel notch. Windows has a master wheel speed setting, which defaults to 3 lines but I prefer 6.

              • There is a little utility called imwheel which will let you set the default mouse scroll speed globally, and also adjust it for different applications. That's likely to be what you would be most happy with since you mentioned you were happy with the speed in some applications and not others.

                imwheel actually works by mapping the scroll wheel to an adjustable number of presses of the down arrow key. That introduces a few minor quirks. A more direct method is to set the scroll distance in xorg.conf with a lin

      • by Hylandr ( 813770 )

        Korora

      • Switched 18 months ago, "just to try". Now I'm still here, and could be happier. Of course, if you are a hard-core gamer...

      • Can someone recommend a Linux distro where basic stuff like the mouse wheel works properly? Now that OPAL v2 is getting proper support I really want to switch.

        I'm not a noob, I use Linux servers and embedded systems all the time, but the two desktops I tried recently (Mint Cinnamon and Ubuntu) were broken and/or generally sucked. I don't want to waste time trying them all if I can help it.

        What did you have them installed on? Pretty unusual to have a freaking mouse wheel not work. Did you try the live disk? Did you install with an internet connection?

        Hell, Ubuntu Mate works well on a Raspberry Pi, and Linux in general supports more drivers than Windows. I have old devices that work perfectly in linux, but zero windows driver support from the manufacturer. Found that out the hard way when setting up a dual boot machine. As soon after I was done setting up the Linux side, and the Windows side

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          The mouse wheel works, but scrolls one line at a time in Chrome and some other apps. There is no way to charge the scroll speed.

          On Windows there is a slider bar in the mouse settings. Linux seems to have several mouse wheel APIs, and whatever Cinnamon uses has no configuration options.

      • by caseih ( 160668 )

        Hmm, what mouse wheel problems do you have? The mouse wheel has worked for many years for me. Ever since the mouse wheel was invented. I use the mouse wheel every day on Linux. I can't tell any difference from Windows or OS X (other than the backwards scrolling OS X defaults to).

        • OS X defaults to backward scrolling because their devices are touch-based (both touch pad on laptops and on their input devices).

          It's easy enough to invert scrolling though: System Preferences > Mouse > Scroll direction (unselect)

      • I have been using Linux since 1997, And i have never had an issue with simple hardware like mice and keyboards not working ever, what kind of mouse do you have? ive owned tens of mice over the years(cant say ive hit 100 yet, but a lot) and have never had one not work with linux, surprisingly every wireless one ive used has worked out of the box with no modifications to configs or anything. Bluetooth can be a little harder to get working correctly depending on the chipset. but if you can use google most thin

    • The headline makes this sound much worse than it actually is - a lot of this is fallout from the sheer amount of testing and driver development one needs to do to make legacy OS work on a modern CPU/Motherboard - and the slow and steady move to secure boot and efi.

      Intel's 7th generation cpu's and motherboards aren't even going to let you run Windows 2000 or XP either.

      It's the equivalent of trying to run OSX 10.6 on a Macbook you just bought today (Apple also denies you from doing this, and yes 10.6 is the s

      • Intel's 7th generation cpu's and motherboards aren't even going to let you run Windows 2000 or XP either.

        Yes, they are. You may have VGA-only graphics and have to add hardware for things like Ethernet and USB, but they will work. Motherboard already has BIOS emulation and IDE mode for SATA. Less work is needed to make the hardware run Windows 7 for that matter (except for the artificial block).

        • Why would graphics be limited to VGA? Are you talking about the connector or the resolution? There's nothing that prevents Win2K or WinXP from outputting through DVI and from DVI you can use a simple low-cost hardware DVI-to-HDMI adapter. As for resolution, 640x480 existed in the Win95 era.

      • The headline makes this sound much worse than it actually is...

        No, it's actually worse than it sounds. This is just the tip of an iceberg of pain, you know it's true. Death by a thousand cuts. Now at #999.

    • by MillionthMonkey ( 240664 ) on Thursday April 13, 2017 @05:59PM (#54231567)
      I had a laptop running Windows 7; Microsoft came in the dark of night and replaced it with Windows 10. Within a week it got trapped in a bootloop, but at least I had my excuse to finally ditch Windows for good. Once Steve Ballmer left, Satya Nadella turned Windows into something that doesn't resemble an OS so much as a paywalled porn site with AdBlock disabled.
  • by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Thursday April 13, 2017 @04:29PM (#54231021) Homepage

    Time to get a hypervisor running with Win 7 and OSX. Buy an AMD card for graphics passthrough and have the best of both worlds.

    • Buy an AMD card for graphics passthrough

      I'm planning to replace my current Windows 7 system with a Linux system, and graphics passthrough is one of the bits I'm still trying to figure out. Could you elaborate on what you meant here, because I wasn't aware of any advantages to AMD GPUs.

      • Ditto! The only guide I saw was on Reddit and used an AMD card. My main big monitor only has one DP input, so I'm not sure how graphics pass-through would work for me :/

        Inquisitive minds want to know more about GPU passthrough!

      • Nvidia drivers (guest drivers) for consumer grade cards have methods that detect if the card is installed in a VM which then disable the drivers (code 43) to prevent them from running. KVM has options to workaround these methods so you can still run the cards, but IIRC nvidia has changed the method in the past and we're on the second or third workaround so there's a worry they'll eventually change to yet another method of detection and break things intentional again. This cat and mouse game is not desirable

      • Depending on the Nvidia chipset, they have been known to be cunts in the past and disable "consumer" cards when running through a detected hypervisor. Apparently they feel this is a 'pro' feature that should only work with Quadro cards that cost far more.

        I feel that their rights to how the card is used ends when I hand over my credit card. If what I'm doing has a legit chance of causing damage and invalidating a warranty - fine, invalidate the warranty. But you don't get to sabotage me from using the car

  • Dupe (Score:5, Informative)

    by SeaFox ( 739806 ) on Thursday April 13, 2017 @04:34PM (#54231063)

    https://tech.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]
    I see even a month is too long for our memories now.

    • Mod parent up.

    • I've never quite understood why Microsoft wants to go to a monthly subscription service [forbes.com] for non-enterprise (Volume Licensing) end users. The worst part, is that they are going to start a marketing campaign that says it's the consumer's fault for not upgrading.

      I'd like to see the DoJ get involved here, as this represents negligence on the part of Microsoft. Failure to update operating systems that are in use by some XX% of the computers on the internet provides the basis for botnet ecosystems. Manufacture

      • If it works, it will be so great (from Microsoft's perspective). Not only will they be able to have a constant revenue stream, they won't have to come out with convincing upgrades anymore. In addition, they will be able to charge different amounts depending on your country. If you're from India, you can pay $0.5 a month or whatever. In America, more.

        There are so many long-term advantages to subscription-based for the vendor, that if they can pull it off, it's worth almost any price.
      • I've never quite understood why Microsoft wants to go to a monthly subscription service [forbes.com] for non-enterprise (Volume Licensing) end users.

        I haven't read up on their official positions, but there are a couple of obvious answers. Because it makes more people willing to buy their products and computers that include their products. Because it lets them get a direct revenue stream from consumers of sold machines. There are hundreds of millions of people who find it much easier to pay a small amount every month than to pay a larger amount up front, even if the up front amount is only a hundred bucks. It also probably reduces their taxes and makes

        • by epyT-R ( 613989 )

          I'd imagine such people would rather pay $300 one time for a shitbox computer. Remember, all the vendors want to go this route, and all of those 'only $5/mo' offers add up fast.

        • I've never quite understood why Microsoft wants to go to a monthly subscription service [forbes.com] for non-enterprise (Volume Licensing) end users.

          I haven't read up on their official positions, but there are a couple of obvious answers. Because it makes more people willing to buy their products and computers that include their products. Because it lets them get a direct revenue stream from consumers of sold machines. There are hundreds of millions of people who find it much easier to pay a small amount every month than to pay a larger amount up front, even if the up front amount is only a hundred bucks. It also probably reduces their taxes and makes their quarterly figures more reliable by normalizing their income.

          So if I get you straight, I'm going to dump my Linux and Apple machines because it's easy to pay for an operating systemI don't want?

          Sounds legit.

  • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Thursday April 13, 2017 @04:46PM (#54231157)

    While I have been planning to get a Ryzen 1800X, those plans are now shelved. My FX8350 is good enough. There is no way in hell I am installing Microsofts spyware (Win10) until it has either become clear how to reliably and permanently block all "telemetry" or the EU has finally managed to enforce European privacy laws against them, which, among other things, means that _all_ data collection is subject to approval and must be "off" by default.

    • But you contradict yourself. You are shelving your plans because you want windows updates, but you're not upgrading to Windows 10 because of telemetry.

      These days you almost can't have both of those things given what counts as an "update" to windows 7.

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        Actually, I can still block updates on Win7 and look at each one before installing them. No such possibility in Win10.

    • Ryzen also includes the "AMD Secure Processor," which is described as sort of equivalent to the Intel Management Engine, which itself is considered a backdoor. The capabilities of the AMD implementation appear to be less well-known, but I think it's safe to say that it's problematic at least.

      https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/5wntlt/question_is_there_an_equivalent_of_the_intel/

      https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/139701/what-is-known-about-the-capabilities-of-amds-secure-processor

      https://www.redd

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        I am aware of that. Still, this will not be used for any normal spying, only for a small number of targeted attacks. It would be an utter catastrophe if the ways to attack this leak or if they have to be explained in a courtroom.

  • by drewsup ( 990717 ) on Thursday April 13, 2017 @04:48PM (#54231165)

    To pc's what they did to older windows phones?? Colour me surprised! Upgrade/ use the hardware we recommend or lose support is the new MA mantra, keep going MS, I had to toss my windows phone because of your lack of support, I've been on Mint for years, the only reason you are still relevant is your entrenched business portfolio, and even that is slipping away.

  • by frovingslosh ( 582462 ) on Thursday April 13, 2017 @05:05PM (#54231281)
    Microsoft users are just being disruptive and belligerent. Microsoft has the right to kick them off their computers any time they want, and to send in the jack booted thugs if the user will not go quietly.
  • Ubuntu [ubuntu.com]: The leading operating system for PCs, tablets, phones, IoT ...
  • by wonkey_monkey ( 2592601 ) on Thursday April 13, 2017 @06:24PM (#54231657) Homepage

    New Processors Are Now Blocked From Receiving Updates On Old Windows

    Shouldn't that be:

    Old Windows is now blocked from receiving updates [when running] on new processors

    ?

    • Old windows is blocked from receiving updates because old windows is old. (See Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista)
      • Only this isn't about really old Windows, it's about not-so-old Windows which is still going to get updates if you have a different processor - and for seemingly no good reason other than to annoy people into getting Windows 10.

The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up.

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