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Data Storage IT Technology

Seagate Says 16TB Hard Drive To Hit Market Within 18 Months (techspot.com) 232

An anonymous reader shares a report: If you haven't shopped around for hard drives in a while, you may be surprised at what's out there. The largest 3.5-inch desktop hard drives currently available from Seagate, for example, offer a whopping 10TB of capacity for less than $500. In the event that 10TB isn't quite enough storage and a multi-drive setup isn't ideal, you'll be happy to hear that Seagate over the next 18 months plans to ship 14TB and 16TB drives. A 12TB HDD based on helium technology is currently undergoing testing and according to CEO Stephen Luczo, initial feedback is positive. Most enthusiasts and even some PC manufacturers are now using solid state drives as their primary drive due to the fact that they're much faster and more power-efficient. What's more, because they have no moving parts, SSDs generate no noise and are much more durable.
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Seagate Says 16TB Hard Drive To Hit Market Within 18 Months

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  • Great! (Score:5, Funny)

    by TWX ( 665546 ) on Friday January 27, 2017 @02:41PM (#53749945)
    Now I can lose even more data when a single disk crashes!
    • Put all your eggs in one basket... and then watch (ie backup or mirror) the basket very carefully.

  • by mykepredko ( 40154 ) on Friday January 27, 2017 @02:51PM (#53750057) Homepage

    Why are the two ending sentences there on SSDs?

    It made the summary confusing and off point.

  • by known_coward_69 ( 4151743 ) on Friday January 27, 2017 @02:52PM (#53750061)

    and will it be enough for the digital hoarders out there?

  • by __aaclcg7560 ( 824291 ) on Friday January 27, 2017 @02:55PM (#53750111)
    I typically replace my home file server hard drives every five years or so. More out of necessity because the hard drives start failing like dominos. I buy whatever hard drives I can get for $50 each. Last year I replaced Seagate 320GB hard drives with Western Digital Red 1TB hard drives. Maybe four years from now I'll get 16TB hard drives — or 1TB+ SSDs — for $50 each.
    • I'm on a similar schedule - though I went for ~$100 each for 3TB drives since I have (presumably) higher storage needs and only 4 SATA ports available for RAID. The low end hasn't dropped fast enough (and I need more storage) and you get more bits for your buck at the higher price if you need it.

      You'll be lucky if even 3TB drives hit the $50 mark in the next 3 years. In fact, the 3TB drives I bought almost 2 years ago are still over $80.

      • You'll be lucky if even 3TB drives hit the $50 mark in the next 3 years.

        1TB+ SSDs will probably be more affordable in the next few years.

        • The mid-range flash cells have been stagnant on price for a while. The 250GB Samsung 850 EVO spent most of 2015 and 2016 at $90. Now it's $100. Sure there are a lot of cheaper options, but at this rate of change, I don't have much hope for 1TB coming down in price any time soon.

          • I take that back. 2015 was the 120GB model at that price, but 250GB was still under $140 back in 2014.

    • I snagged an 8TB from newegg last black friday for $169, and there were some clearanced WDs that were through office max earlier this month, 6TB for $109 and 4TB for $79. They are externals, but easy to disassemble.
      • They are externals, but easy to disassemble.

        That might be fine for single drives. For a RAID configuration, you want identical drives under warranty. Popping open an external drive probably voids the warranty.

        • by arth1 ( 260657 )

          For a RAID configuration, you want identical drives under warranty.

          No. You want identical in size and performance, but not identical drives if you can help it. Certainly not drives from the same production run. Good system providers will shuffle drives so you get different ones, or at least from different production runs.

          The reason is that you don't want drives failing at the same time. From a drive has failed until a hotspare has been fully populated and tested, you're the most vulnerable.

          • You want identical in size and performance, but not identical drives if you can help it.

            When I replaced the hard drives in my home file server, I bought four locally over a six month period when they were on sale and the store had to restock each time. Two from Newegg about nine months apart. All the serial numbers are quite different.

            From a drive has failed until a hotspare has been fully populated and tested, you're the most vulnerable.

            Not with a RAID-6 configuration (a second hard drive would have to fail). I also have a full backup on a separate hard drive.

  • As many a wag has pointed out, that a 16TB drive means that there is more of your data to lose in a crash. I also have to think that the latency for finding specific files on the drive - especially in a server - is going to be a concern.

    I guess for the home user, this might be a great way to store 100 or more Blu-Rays for streaming around the house but I have to wonder if these drives are reaching sub-optimal sizes for server farms/cloud based storage.

    • by religionofpeas ( 4511805 ) on Friday January 27, 2017 @03:10PM (#53750267)

      a 16TB drive means that there is more of your data to lose

      In most cases, if you can fill a 16 TB disk, that data isn't actually yours.

      • I've been ripping all my (legally purchased) DVDs and Blu-rays to MKV files. I completely filled up twp 6tb drives. And I'm not even close to done.
      • I probably could, not that I would... but I'm sure 4 IR security cameras @1080p recording 24/7 wouldn't take that long to fill up 16TB.

      • by spire3661 ( 1038968 ) on Friday January 27, 2017 @04:31PM (#53750879) Journal
        Oh fuck off. With 360 video becoming a thing, we are going to need 16k cameras to capture reality in decent fidelity. My personal raw 4k footage already vastly exceeds the 2 TB of backup media content i maintain.

        I store my physical CDs as straight up .wavs at this point. My home surveillance package could fill a 16 TB quickly, even quicker if i upgrade to higher resolution cameras.....You lack imagination.
      • absolute bullshit. with Ultra HD video, hi res photography etc 16TB is no longer something just hosters would need. I have 21TB in my home NAS and it has been bordering full for the past 12 months where I am deleting stuff so I can put new stuff in which is anything but ideal. This scenario is only going to get worse over the next year. I have been waiting to upgrade storage till drive sizes got big enough so that my upgrade could at least double my capacity without insane investment. 10-14TB drives should
      • by jedidiah ( 1196 )

        > In most cases, if you can fill a 16 TB disk, that data isn't actually yours.

        You're projecting. You're the thief and you think everyone else is.

    • I just upgraded our building's 1080p security camera system storage from 4TB to 16TB (2x8TB). With 8 cameras recording at 6 fps, half of them on motion detection all the time, the others half the time, 4TB held about 35 days of video. We kept missing important footage due to the motion detection not triggering in time or not at all. I tried reducing the h.264 codec quality, but small details like license plate numbers started to become unreadable. 16TB should let us store 45+ days of always-on footage.
    • for when you download every movie, song and tv show there is even though it's impossible to actually consume it all within a human lifetime but you still do it because it makes you feel superior

  • Where are you going to put that kind of data, should you manage to fill one of these? In the cloud? No way, and your ISP will love the data cap overage charges if you try. Another drive? Well, unless you buy at least three of these then that will get expensive fast, requiring multiple older drives per one of these. Tape? Have you looked at LTO or similar prices? Not gonna happen for home users, even most businesses. So, when your rust stops spinning and the data is at rest, where do you turn?

    • by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27, 2017 @03:06PM (#53750223)

      Buy 2

    • by religionofpeas ( 4511805 ) on Friday January 27, 2017 @03:26PM (#53750379)
      I just divide it into two equal partitions, and make copies of everything.
    • by Phics ( 934282 )

      This won't be made primarily for _you_, its real value is _in_ the cloud. Lower overall power usage in a high-density environment, and in spite of what some might think, even a high cost drive will save money when you scale out, as long as its benefits can be felt on that scale, (lower wattage, better rack utilization with more TB per U, fewer individual points of failure per PB, lower overall cost per GB on the PB scale, (and probably on the TB scale as well)).

    • Where are you going to put that kind of data, [...] Another drive? Well, unless you buy at least three of these then that will get expensive fast, requiring multiple older drives per one of these.

      Well, My use case makes this what is likely to happen.
      I'll drop one of these in the system and it will act as the WORM drive for bulk data.
      As the data is created it is written to smaller/faster disks (still spinning rust, whatever 2.5" is cheapest/gig, or even previously used drives that have been tested clean). Once a dataset is complete it will be written to the WORM drive, once the smaller disk is full it is pulled from the system, put on the shelf and a new blank put in in it's place. Instant offline

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Lots of people have terabytes in the cloud. I've got about 4TB backed up (encrypted of course). Took a few months to upload.

  • Sigh (Score:2, Funny)

    by Locke2005 ( 849178 )
    My first computer was a 386 with a 30MByte disk... and I was PROUD of it!
    • by PRMan ( 959735 )
      I had a 286 with a 20...
      • by ls671 ( 1122017 )

        Yep, mine too was a 20MB and I was all excited when I got it. It cost me 600$ back then too!!!

        • The first in my house was a 286 w/ ST 225, but my first that was *mine* was an older 8088 with an ST512 FH 5MB disk. I was so f-ing proud of myself for that machine (built with hand me down parts and bits I bought/was given at the old swap meet I went to).

      • by Striek ( 1811980 )

        Mine was a 286 without a hard drive. We called loading anything on that machine doing the "diskette disco".

        We bought a 40MB hard drive some years later, as an upgrade.

    • Home built Apple ][ (6502) with a cassette tape.

  • by Phics ( 934282 ) on Friday January 27, 2017 @03:29PM (#53750415)

    Most of the comments so far seem to be about 16TB being a bit on the ridiculous side for PCs and even small servers, etc. What these are exciting for aren't RAID or traditional PC's but for high density storage for Big Data, which typically doesn't use RAID, and generally only looks at SSDs as a "hot tier" solution. 16TB spindles sound great to me, but I'd never stick one in my home PC.

    • we passed 16TB for SSD's in the big data side a few years ago, these are completely useless in that area. 16TB though is great for home storage for large video libraries.
  • by davidwr ( 791652 ) on Friday January 27, 2017 @03:33PM (#53750433) Homepage Journal

    I'd love to see someone come out with a cheap, trivial-to-use "WORM* USB stick" along with "plug and play" backup software.

    Such backups would be impervious to being over-written by ransomware. If using them became commonplace, it would cripple that industry.

    Such media could also be used for security systems or any other kind of data-logging system: Record everything to write-once media (along with a copy of recent data to a cached journal, so changing media doesn't cause interruptions).

    There is a good business case for this: It provides a nice "give away the flashlight, sell the batteries" profit center for vendors: People would need to replace the USB sticks when they filled up. The key is that it will have to be no more expensive than ordinary USB sticks of the same capacity.

    Before you mention "data retention/deletion policies" I'm envisioning this for home users and some types small businesses, not large businesses or those subject to government-driven data-deletion policies.

    ----

    * By "WORM" I mean the actual hardware/firmware enforces the write-once aspect, not just a USB stick with an OS-level device driver that makes it "write once." This should actually be cheaper to manufacture than typical USB sticks since you would not need to provide "erase" circuitry nor would you need to have wear-leveling logic in the device's firmware.

    • by Phics ( 934282 )

      Another case, while we're at it.... datacenters.

      This would be cool for archival or cold tier storage solutions, where the data is flagged as having some acceptable degree of permanency is moved onto these WORM devices. I can think of all sorts of applications - financial, backup, legal, content libraries with immutable data, (like old documents, manuals, videos, etc.).

      You could focus more on read speeds and less on write issues, and while I'm no expert, I imagine there are plenty from an engineering point

    • by networkBoy ( 774728 ) on Friday January 27, 2017 @03:53PM (#53750599) Journal

      This should actually be cheaper to manufacture than typical USB sticks since you would not need to provide "erase" circuitry nor would you need to have wear-leveling logic in the device's firmware.

      Former Flash validation engineer here...
      Sadly not the case. The erase circuitry will still be needed if only so you can adequately run test patterns on the parts. Have to return the device to 0xFF's after testing so your customers can use it.

      That said, there is the ability to disable erase in the field by setting a bit in the FACS array as the last step of testing.

      • by davidwr ( 791652 )

        That said, there is the ability to disable erase in the field by setting a bit in the FACS array as the last step of testing.

        For all practical purposes, is this an irreversible step?

        If not, I would prefer some other method, such as cutting a trace or burning out a fuse so that the drive was guaranteed to be "write once, erase/delete never."

        For "forensic" purposes, "guaranteed non-erasure" is a hard requirement.

    • What sort of file system are you thinking about for WORM - OpenZFS? You'll need a copy-on-write filesystem to justify a WORM
    • by erice ( 13380 )

      I'd love to see someone come out with a cheap, trivial-to-use "WORM* USB stick" along with "plug and play" backup software.

      You may be waiting a while. Flash isn't cheap enough and it has data retention problems. Phase change memories (of which 3D Crosspoint seem to be a variant) also have difficulties with long term retention. If you don't need it to be a USB stick, WORM behaviour is a commonly available in optical storage media, including Blu-Ray.

  • But when will we see hydrogen filled drives?

  • by Chas ( 5144 )

    4 days?

    Sorry, but it seems like the bigger Seagate drives get, the less reliable they become.

Marvelous! The super-user's going to boot me! What a finely tuned response to the situation!

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