Next-Gen Samsung EV Battery Gets 300+ Miles of Range From 20-Minute Charge (techcrunch.com) 198
An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: Samsung's SDI battery subsidiary announced a new battery cell designed for use in electric vehicles that offers improved density to manage a max range of up to 372 miles on a full charge, with a quick charge capacity that will help it regain 310 miles or so of charge on just 20 minutes of charging. Unveiled at the North American International Auto Show for the first time, the new battery tech come with a 10 percent decrease in the number of units and weight required vs. current production battery units made by Samsung SDI. Mass production isn't set to begin until 2021, but the tech should arrive in time to supply the first crop of autonomous cars, which are also targeting street dates sometime within that year from a range of manufacturers. A 20-minute charge delivering that kind of range would help considerably with making EVs more practical for more drivers; it's around the time you'd spend at a rest stop using the restroom and grabbing coffee or a snack, after all. By comparison, Tesla's superchargers currently manage to provide around 170 miles of range on a half-hour charge, so Samsung's planned tech could approximately double that.
Not to rain on the parade, but... (Score:2, Insightful)
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If you do the math, that premium is cheaper in the long run.
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As if it cost $50k to buy an EV
I call BS (Score:2)
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It certainly is cheaper with modern batteries. With the Tesla model S people have already put over 100K miles on the car and they're seeing less than a 5% loss of range. I'm at about 50K miles in mine and have not noticed any reduction in range or performance. The batteries are rated for 3000 charge/discharge cycles which equates to well over 600,000 miles.
Mechanically the system is far simpler than an ICE car. There are far fewer moving parts. The motor is lubricated for 12 years, instead of every 6 months
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Even if your electric car "runs on coal" in your area, that's still a substance we don't have to buy from people who hate us.
Make all cars electric, and improving generation technology automatically gets through to the road. We can already do that for urban driving.
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Canadians? We don't hate you. We're shocked that you chose a reality star for president, and maybe a bit saddened by it. But it's not hatred.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/industry-news/energy-and-resources/canadian-crude-exports-to-us-hit-record-level/article29613525/ [theglobeandmail.com]
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"Canadians? We don't hate you. We're shocked that you chose a reality star for president, and maybe a bit saddened by it. But it's not hatred."
It will be Trump who allows Canadian oil to be imported again. Betcha that uncancelling Obama's pipeline cancellations will be first on the list.
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Nearly a good argument (Score:3)
That's quite a can of worms you've ripped the lid off. Superficially, yes, you are right.
But the reality is that ~half of electric power is generated from coal, not hydrocarbons. (as an aside In my opinion burning hydrocarbons in powerstations is dopey, oil and natural gas should be reserved for uses where their extraordinary energy density is most useful, basically aeroplanes and the like,)
The consequence of burning coal is that for many many many regions worldwide, an EV actually produces more CO2 than a
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The problem is that you chose the Nissan Leaf, which is probably the WORST EV out there due to poor battery management. There is no active battery cooling and they tend to cook themselves to death. Also, having a small battery like the Leaf means it will cycle a lot more for the same number of miles compared to cars with larger batteries. The cycling and heat is what kills them, plus charging them up to 100%. Also, Nissan made a poor choice when it came to their chemistry and hence their batteries did not h
I'm 40 (Score:2)
meanwhile, LG and Panasonic can't keep up (Score:2)
can't keep up with demand, that is. they keep expanding and expanding their plants. and doing so here in the good ol' USA, at least for final assembly.
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...ultimately, what keeps most people from ever considering an electric vehicle: They're just too damn expensive.
Not necessarily... Just like regular cars you can find bargains if you buy used and you still get all the EV's long-term cost savings others mention. In July 2015 I bought a certified-used 2013 Nissan LEAF with 11K miles on it for ~$15K. If I had bought that car new in the same trim it would have been ~34K. It's been great. Someone else took the bulk of the depreciation hit, I still get the vast majority of the factory warranty, fueling is cheaper, maintenance is cheaper, and inspections are cheaper (no em
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In July 2015 I bought a certified-used 2013 Nissan LEAF with 11K miles on it for ~$15K. ... because the bottom line is it saves us money.
The current price for a Leaf replacement battery is $5500 plus install etc., so say $6000 ballpark. At $2.50/gallon, that's 2400 gallons of gas. Say you get a car that does 30MPG, that's 72,000 miles.
Your used car was driven 5000 miles per year. To go 72,000 miles, that would be 14 years of driving. The expected lifetime of the battery pack is 10 years. You're four years short of breaking even.
You already limit your driving due to range, relying on a second car for longer trips, or just a lot of small tri
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First, as much as I appreciate your analysis on my household transportation finances, I'll point that my wife and I have had two ICE cars for years before (we each have jobs to commute to, so we're not getting by with one car). I swapped my ICE for an EV. So, no real change in our finances other than spending less on one of the cars.
Second, regarding the fear-mongering over battery changes, it's simply overblown. If you want to see how these batteries perform in real world conditions all you have to do is l
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I have almost 50K miles on my Tesla Model S (P85) and have not noticed any loss in range. The general consensus is that there is less than 5% loss in range after 100K miles with the 85KWh battery pack. The batteries are not the same as those used in cell phones and are much more rugged. I spend $50/month ($0.12/KWh) on electricity and drive around 1000 miles/month with most of that charging being at home. It's a big car, so I'm spending a fraction of what I'd spend on gas for a similar car, especially a car
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The expected lifetime of a battery is not 10 years, the battery has a warranty for 10 years but just like a car with a warranty of 3 years that doesn't mean the car is expected to only last 3 years.
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the battery has a warranty for 10 years
From here [nissanusa.com]:
Ninety-six months is 8 years.
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So, to really compare apples to apples, you've got to also factor in maintenance costs of your ICE vs maintenance costs of the EV.
Yes, you do. And there are so many possible failures for either vehicle type that the only reasonable analysis is based on "all things being equal". That is, all four wheels could fall off your normal car and you have to pay to fix that at a bundle of money, but so could all four wheels fall off the EV.
Then instead of inflating your numbers by rounding up to $6000
From here [greencarreports.com], "It's a surprisingly low $5,499 (after a $1,000 credit for turning in the old pack, which is required), plus installation fees and tax. The installation is estimated at roughly 3 hours of labor." S
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In 1913 the average income was about $15,000 and a car cost about $30,000
"Nothing has spread socialistic feeling in this country more than the use of automobiles. To the countryman they are a picture of arrogance of wealth with all its independence and carelessness." -- Woodrow Wilson
Re: Not to rain on the parade, but... (Score:5, Informative)
In 1913 the average income was about $15,000 and a car cost about $30,000, in today's dollars.
Not even remotely true. A Model T cost $525 in 1913 which is only $13000 in 2016 dollars. Also the average income was $800 or approximately $19700 in 2016 dollars.
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In 1913 the average income was about $15,000
Can you present supporting evidence? I find it VERY difficult to believe, bearing in mind that, in the late 70s, a $30K a year was a good salary.
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I didn't read TFA, but I wonder if 100Kwh is really accurate, or are they estimating a 300 mile range from a vehicle much smaller and lighter than a Tesla S? Teslas are not very efficient cars: they're heavy and have wide tires, and are made for higher performance rather than ultimate energy efficiency. Making them the size of a Leaf, with some low rolling-resistance tires (which of course have terrible cornering performance) should significantly reduce the battery capacity needed for that range.
Anyway, t
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What worries me is the charging.
300+ mile range is 100Kwh or so of power.
This is not about home chargers, in your garage. This is about charging on the road, during long trips. 100Kwh in 20 minutes is 300 Kw. At 220v, that is about 1400 amps. For an industrial connection, that is not unusual. A Tesla Supercharger delivers close to that amount of power, and there are often several of them co-located.
When you charge at home, you usually do it overnight, and are just topping up the 10-20% you may have used during your commute.
Umbrella for the parade (Score:5, Informative)
Charging that in 20 minutes will be around 300Kw, 300V and 1000A or 1000V at 300A or some variation thereof.
Any way you look at it the cable and connectors will be ridiculous.
Hardly.
Take 2000V 150A, for instance. 1/0 or 2/0 welding cable, insulated to that voltage, would be well within the current electrical code. The stiffness of such a two-wire bundle would compare favorably to a gas-pump hose - especially in states (like CA) where the hose includes a vapor recovery passage.
Most wiring these days is insulated to 600V by default because it's hard to make insulation any thinner without making it fragile. 2000V is not difficult at all.
You could even include a coaxial "shield" that would detect any failures in the inner cable's insulation, along with signal-level switch wiring that would detect whether the plug was fully inserted into a matching connector, to prevent the enabling of significant current unless the system is safe.
A gasoline pump, running at 10 GPM, is feeding your car about 22 megawatts of fuel heat-equivalent. What's such a big deal about feeding it a mere 300 kilowatts, nearly 2 orders of magnitude less, as electricity rather than liquid fuel?
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I mean if you want to just randomly compare energies why not be just as worried that the cell phone in you pocket is going to undergo fission and go thermonuclear.
Don't give Samsung any ideas for the Note 8.
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But if it happens to ignite you can find yourself dancing in a heat source that exceeds the 22 megawatt level. For a short time, anyhow. B-b
If you are grounded and put 150 amps into your arm you could have some serious issues.
If you put 10 miliamps (i.e. one one-hundredth of ONE amp) up
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There are a lot of safety systems in these charging systems where they monitor the temperature of the connectors, the voltage loss between the charger and the car (to detect bad connections) and probably GFCI as well. With my Tesla model S it always starts out slow and ramps up the current draw and monitors the voltage sag and other characteristics to shut down if it detects a problem. No high voltage flows until both the car and charger finish negotiating. If the cable is suddenly unplugged then the power
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What worries me is the charging.
I think people worry because they are stuck in the mindset of going to a station to "fill up." But, a typical EV owner would do the vast majority of their charging at home overnight, which for many people a standard 120V line is sufficient. It's the only way I've charged my Nissan LEAF for the past year a half of owning the car. There are charging stations around me and I could install a faster 240V charger in my house, but I have no need them.
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As your urban commuter car, yes. Only if you have a 300-mile-range Tesla could you contemplate a road trip, and you would have to plan ahead for charge points where you can spend an hour or two at a time.
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Road-trippers would likely rent or have an ICE. Planning charging stops sounds like PITA and make for a much longer trip. Whatever... I am not an EV cultist. My wife and I have a two car household, one is ICE and the other as a commuter EV just works well for us. Your results may vary.
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My Zoe on a PCP cost me £2k upfront and then £160 per month (electricity costs are negligible, under a fiver a week). I think that's pretty damn cheap for a new car.
Cold weather? (Score:2)
What happens then? Does cold weather affect battery performance? Without an internal combustion engine, the only way to get heat in the cabin is via electricity, which is going to impose a considerable burden on the battery.
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Re:Cold weather? (Score:4, Informative)
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Not that super-sport accelerations are ever "needed", but not every place with cold temps has snow.
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Re:Cold weather? (Score:5, Informative)
I have no details about this battery in particular, but my experience with owning an EV, and knowing others who own them is that range drops around 15% at 0-5C compared to 20-30C.
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Not necessarily out of scope but not nearly as friendly... with Tesla's current superchargers (as described in TFS) you would need to do that trip in 3 legs with a half hour stop each to recharge. With a 15% reduction you may need to make that 4 legs.
That vs your average IC care these days that could do that trip easy in one leg.
The features of Samsung's new battery brings EVs WAY closer to practical for a long-distance driver.. not on par with the range of an IC car but back to the old standard of "300 mil
Re:Cold weather? (Score:5, Interesting)
Only on startup will electric heating be required to heat the cabin. Once the battery is up to temperature heating can be accomplished the same was it is now by piping some of the battery coolant through a heater core. If designed correctly (and the driver plans correctly) initial heating can actually be done while the car is still connected to the charger.
Re:Cold weather? (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah... this weekend's weather forecast calls for 40 Below Zero in my town (Alaska).
I wonder how those batteries will do here. Our car batteries get a little cranky w/o either a trickle changer or a battery pad warmer at those temperatures.
In my parts of the woods, all cars plug in, just not all year round! ;)
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You can't charge them below 0C. So you'd need a heated garage. Lithium ion batteries can be used at temperatures down to -40C, but they can't discharge as fast. So you're right at the limit. My rule of thumb is: if you get square tires, don't use your battery.
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They sell square tires?
What's next.... Curved TV's?
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They sell square tires?
I think he's referring to the phenomenon where, in very low temperatures, the tires lose flexibility. So if you park and let the tires cool, the flat spots that were against the road surface stay flat until the car has moved far enough to heat the tires a bit.
Ka-bump, ka-bump, ka-bump, like driving on square tires (though only one side, not four, is actually flat).
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I was actually making a joke cause square tires sounded funny, like something from the Far Side Comics...
Living in Alaska, we deal with that a lot. When it gets to 25 below zero or colder, I have to take it slow the first quarter-mile or so, so that my squared-up tires have time to safely return to their correct shape. I've been told that driving too fast on stiff tires can damage them.
And, yup, it sure does go ka-bump, ka-bump! :)
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so, do like the Alaskan bush pilots and throw a lighted pan of gasoline under the battery pack 1/2 hour before you want to go for a drive? ;-)
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You can't charge them below 0C. So you'd need a heated garage.
Or a heater in the battery pack to preheat them up to 0C before the main charging begins. Once they're charging, the slight inefficiency of even the best ultrafast-charge cells makes the problem keeping them cool, rather than keeping them warm enough. (Ditto when they're discharging, of course.)
If you are going to supply them with, say, 300 kilowatts or so for 20 minutes while charging them, you can spare a kilowatt for a few minutes to drive a
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Car starter batteries do terribly in cold weather because they are expected to deliver a huge percentage of their power in a few seconds, when cold. An EV will have a huge battery pack, which is only expected to output a small percentage of its available power gradually over the course of your drive.
In short, you'll have less range when the batteries are cold, but they will always work just fine
Samsung batteries have internal combustion, too. (Score:2)
problem solved.
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What happens then? Does cold weather affect battery performance? Without an internal combustion engine, the only way to get heat in the cabin is via electricity, which is going to impose a considerable burden on the battery.
Not really...Consider this, if the battery is powerful enough to drive the car around for miles then powering a little heater and fan isn't going to tax it that much. I'm driving my Nissan LEAF in Pennsylvania in 20 degree F weather this week and I drove it all through last winter too. There is an ~10-20% hit to the range in colder weather, but the heater [and my heated steering wheel] isn't that big of deal, certainly no more than running the AC in the summer. It gets along just fine. In fact, last winter
How many charge/discharge cycles? (Score:5, Interesting)
Avoiding the obvious comment/joke/pun regarding fiery past Samsung has with rechargeable products recently, the first thing I always want to see in regards to car battery technology is how many charge/discharge cycles can it handle?
If we were to assume the worst case, a vehicle could be driven 600 miles (two charge/discharge cycles) every day. Multiply that by 300 days in a year and an expected 5 (7?) year life, this is 3,000 charge/discharge cycles and what I see for most lithium battery technology is usually around 500 cycles. This doesn't include temperature extremes (say from -30C to 45C).
Can this (or any) technology provide this kind of life in a car environment? What do Tesla batteries claim to be able to do?
Re:How many charge/discharge cycles? (Score:4, Insightful)
At 900,000 miles I suspect that the state of the battery pack is the least of your worries..... On any normal car the entire running system has either been replaced or so heavily maintained that it may as well have been replaced.
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But he is talking 900,000 miles. Not 90,000 miles. You have said you doubt you will get to 300,000 miles. He wants 3 times that figure.....
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If you get 300-400 miles per charge and expect that battery to last 500 cycles, you end up with 150k-200k miles.
By that point, a vehicle will have aged significantly---and even an ICE would see substantial maintenance costs.
And, typically, the 500-cycle lifetime is based on the battery being reduced to 80% of its maximum capacity due to wear. It would still be functional---the vehicle will only suffer a reduced range.
Electric vehicles don't have to deal with things like gearboxes, belts, spark plugs, cataly
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How is 600 miles worst case? It wasn't wise but as a kid, I once drove 36 hours straight with maybe a 2 hr nap. Worst case in miles is going to be 24 hours * (max sustainable miles / hour) - number of recharges required * recharge_time. I think a number closer to 1500 miles is more like it. There are toll roads where the speed limit is 85.
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How long can you drive 36 hours straight with 2 hour naps in between?
I picked 600 miles as a reasonable average.
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I'd wager zero times. Unless he was hopped up on caffeine (or worse). In any event, boasting about being a menace on the road is not really topical.
Re:How many charge/discharge cycles? (Score:5, Insightful)
... the first thing I always want to see in regards to car battery technology is how many charge/discharge cycles can it handle?
That's the wrong metric for lithium ion batteries.
As I understand it, the main ageing mechanism that kills them is oxidation of the graphite anode, which starts when the cell is manufactured and isn't appreciably affected by usage except for being accelerated somewhat by being stored at high temperatures with low (20%) charge.
Charge/discharge cycling does cause some "wear", but it's generally a smaller effect. (That's why the advice for, for instance, laptop batteries is not to avoid using them. For long term storage unused they last the longest if put away at about 40% charge.)
This means that it's mainly the age of the cells, not their usage or charge history, that determines when they die. A pack designed for 7 years life will probably give you 7 years life unless you either run it nearly all the way down (which the battery management logic should prevent) or run it down to a low charge and leave it out in the sun for months.
Also: At least one new anode material appears not to age measurably at all.
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That's complete nonsense.
Li-Ion cells absolutely are severely negatively affected by cycling. (PDF) [sc.edu]
That's not to say there isn't calendar fade/degradation of Li-Ion cells. Just that it is far less significant than charge/discharge cy
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"I see for most lithium battery technology is usually around 500 cycles."
Most devices with Lithium batteries are only expected to last a few years and the important factor is how long the device can run per charge so they tend to use all the capacity. A battery that is charged to 100% will die before one that is charged to less than full capacity. A car should last at least 10 years and the manufacturers have left headroom in their batteries for longevity so when the car reports the battery is at 100% it ac
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These aren't your run-of-the-mill batteries you buy on Amazon.
"The data clearly shows that for the first 50,000 miles (100,000 km), most Tesla battery packs will lose about 5% of their capacity, but after the 50,000-mile mark, the capacity levels off and it looks like it could be difficult to make a pack degrade by another 5%.
The trend line actually suggests that the average battery pack could go another 150,000 miles (200,000 miles total) before coming close to 90% capacity."
https://electrek.co/2016/11/01/
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500 cycles? It's more than that, but honestly no one really knows. Tesla has the best batteries in operation currently and none of them are that old. Here is more direct data:
"The data clearly shows that for the first 50,000 miles (100,000 km), most Tesla battery packs will lose about 5% of their capacity, but after the 50,000-mile mark, the capacity levels off and it looks like it could be difficult to make a pack degrade by another 5%.
The trend line actually suggests that the average battery pack could go
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Yes. I am expecting the battery technology to get 900k miles.
That doesn't mean the drivetrain has to last 900k miles, or the body, or the seats or the whatever...
I'm expecting the ability of the batteries to go 900k for them to be a demonstrably mature technology that matches typical automotive technology.
So, if I have say, 5 technologies in the vehicle (batteries, motors, drivetrain, body, interior) that all rated at 900k, then I should be able to expect 300k miles from the entire package.
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At 900,000 miles you probably have had to replace the fuel tank on your ICE as the mounting brackets have failed. Go knows the fuel filter, fuel pump, injection system, spark plugs, fuel line and every other part had had to be replaced.
Autonomous Date (Score:3)
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The only limitation to getting autonomous vehicles on the road by 2021 are legal/regulatory issues.
Those "parlour tricks" do a pretty good job of driving already, another 4 years of machine learning and I think they'll do a stupendous job.
On the other hand, my Aunt Mildred will be an even worse driver in 4 years and my nephew Luke will probably still think he's a great driver but all the tickets he's gotten tell me a different story. I look forward to both of them not being behind a wheel in 4 years.
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Autonomous cars did a pretty good job of driving a decade ago, too. I'm sure they'll do a pretty good job a decade from now, as well, but like today, still not be quite good enough.
Google's self-driving cars have reported higher incidents of accidents than human drivers, and most of them are limited to low-speeds, and still need human operators to occasionally get them
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Not at all. We'll all have self-driving cars by 2021, but we won't need fast-charging Li-ion batteries because they'll be FUSION powered. Oh, and they will also be able to fly...
So rinse, lather, repeat... how many times? (Score:3)
There's a Practical Charging Limit (Score:4, Interesting)
Although there's a limit to how fast a battery can be charged before it overheats and explodes or simply damages itself, don't forget that there's a practical limit to how much power you can realistically draw from a typical house outlet. A Gallon of gasoline is estimated to have 33.41 KwH! (A normal gas engine throws a good portion of that energy away as heat.) That gallon of gas is pretty close to what my typical household uses in the entire day for electricity! So to pull down the equivalent of a couple of gallons of gas in 20 minutes is going to take the equivalent power drain of a sub-station transformer. It's why you don't see a commercial fast Tesla charger at home. A typical house doesn't use a 480 volt industrial power feed. You don't want much more current in the hands of consumers. A small mistake could cause a nasty explosion / arc.
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That's some very bald-faced lying.
You already said that the theoretical energy of a tank of gasoline is mostly wasted, but then you g
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Pretty sure that if people could affordably have fast charging at home, they would, even if they rarely used it.
The OP is correct; the actual reason this doesn't happen is partially because of the safety aspect. Cost being, of course, the much bigger issue.
Same problem refueling my gas car at home... (Score:3)
Like everyone, I want to be able to refuel my gas car at home in 5 minutes. The only possible solution to this is for somebody to build pipes from an oil refinery to my home so that I can refuel my car every 5 minutes--all day, every day. That must be what they do with gas stations, right? a big fat pipe going all the way back to the refinery?
Hmmm, come to think of it, I swear I heard somewhere about gas stations actually just having big underground tanks that are periodically refilled. Then the tank only h
Tesla Currently (Score:5, Informative)
Sure, this technology will beat Tesla's current capability, but it won't be available until 2021. Does Samsung think Tesla won't make improvements by then? They are already quietly increasing the capability of their charging stations, [electrek.co] and rolling out new [fortune.com] batteries [electrek.co] using production tooling. [electrek.co]
I hear the acceleration will be... (Score:2)
...explosive.
charging available only at power stations? (Score:2)
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If you have 3500 acres to spare you could go with Solar. The largest solar plant produces 400 MW, dividing by 328kW leaves us with a little over 1000 cars during a sunny day.
YMMV
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To be fair, nobody really charges at 120V. Any decent charger is going to be off of a 240V single phase (for residential) and most commercial is going to have access to (at least) 480V/3phase or three 277V phase-to-ground legs (which is what many commercial fluor ballasts run, iirc). And that presumes that they even bother transforming down from the 7.2kV main before distributing to the DC. Now, I haven't the faintest idea what state of the art is for high amperage AC-DC conversion, but just looking at buil
When does it explode? (Score:2)
Electric Cars Were Better (Score:2)
It was better when you could swap out the battery, but now you have to keep a charger handy.
Plus is spies on you all the time!
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Not sure when "you" could swap out 1200 pound battery in under 20 minutes from the bottom of a vehicle. Maybe a dozen 20# deep cycles in your trunk. Heck, even if it were accessible, 15 seconds to detach/undock and move a module to a shelf, and the same to move one back and latch into place means you can only move 40 batteries in 20 minutes. So for a Tesla S, that's 30# per battery. The average user (not you - I'm sure you're buff like Chris Helmsworth) is going to be exhaused from something like that.
Get it down to 5 minutes (Score:2)
and available at multiple street corners and every exit on the highway. 20 mins and low availability still does not get past range anxiety.
That's a lot of amps (Score:3)
77.5 kWh / 20 minutes = 232.5 kW, or enough to power about 200 homes
77.5 kWh / (480 Volts * 20 minutes) = 484.4 Amps
And that's assuming 100% charging efficiency (not factoring in heat losses during charging).
I got excited (Score:2)
Re:Exploding Option? (Score:5, Funny)
Who said anything about optional?
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Explosions come standard on all models.
Also take Note of their mobile options...
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I would hope all EVs are mobile.
Failure is not an option (Score:2)
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Does it come with the optional Exploding Mode?
ISIS is already asking that rogue Toyota dealer they use for all their vehicles why Toyota doesn't come out with an electric that has the explosive power of a Samsung.
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What's the point of posting this article if it doesn't give any useful data?
The headline mentions a 300-mile typical range on a 20-minute charge. Both of these numbers are related to kWh capacity and kW charge rate respectively. Arguably the former numbers are more consumer-friendly, albeit less precise because they relate to a "typical" EV use-case. So I would say the article does provide useful information, just not in the units or precision you're expecting.
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If you do road trips, commercial passengers, or commercial hauling, then fast-charging batteries can easily be a make-or-break feature for you.
I doubt most users will care about the battery chemistry, but its capacity, durability, and recharge rate are all primary features in the context of an electric vehicle.
A battery is a battery is a battery.
Different batteries prefer different volts/amps for recharging.
For cars, this becomes more of a factor since the new batteries have to play nicely with whatever charging module is built in. I seriousl
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Why on earth would you predict the same levels of traffic, though? People charge EVs at home and work. People don't fuel ICEs at home and work.