Tesla Introduces Fee For Owners Who Leave Their Cars At Supercharger Stations (techcrunch.com) 304
Tesla announced today that it will start charging owners a fee of $0.40 per minute if they fail to move their vehicles at a Supercharger station. If drivers don't move their cars within 5 minutes of the car hitting 100 percent, the fee will begin to assess. TechCrunch reports: "One would never leave a car parked at a gas station right at the pump and the same rule applies with Superchargers," read Tesla's announcement. How will one know that it's done and you need to scoot? Why, one will get an alert on one's phone, of course, via the Tesla app. One already does, in fact. So one never had any excuse. "To be clear, this change is purely about increasing customer happiness and we hope to never make any money from it," the announcement also reads.
It might be an issue in the future (Score:2, Interesting)
There's a Starbucks within walking distance of a Tesla station in Tifton, GA -it's actually right behind the Starbucks. Folks plug their cars in and go for coffee or something. I mean, those cars take a while to charge - it's not like gas where it takes just a minute or two to fill up. And people do leave their cars at the pump and go in to buy other shit.
And unlike gas stations, the Tesla station is pretty empty. Maybe in the future when there are more Tesla's on the road it could be an issue.
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You still have that luxury, but now you have to pay for it if you take longer than 20 minutes. 40 cents per minute won't make a Tesla owner bankrupt, probably.
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You still have that luxury, but now you have to pay for it if you take longer than 20 minutes. 40 cents per minute won't make a Tesla owner bankrupt, probably.
Somehow I don't think that solves the problem of Tesla owners waiting on the charger to become free.
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They used to encourage exactly that. In fact, if you pop over to tesla.com and pull up the superchargers map, the listings do still include the businesses that you are encouraged to patronize while supercharging. And that includes everything from the Starbucks for the free wifi, to the Harris Ranch Steakhouse, if a 24 ounce RibEye is more your thing.
So, this move is more interesting because it marks a reversal from Tesla's original messaging. And one has to wonder why the change and what elst is in the p
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Dude, you live in Switzerland.
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AC troll much? Cars don't cost more in Switzerland, just real-estate.
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Chill, dude. You're way too stressed if someone cleaning their windshield at a gas pump is bothering you.
Here in the US we have a gas station every 100 feet. If one is crowded, you can just mosey on down to the next one.
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Chill, dude. You're way too stressed if someone cleaning their windshield at a gas pump is bothering you.
If they don't start cleaning them while the fuel is flowing, they can fuck right off and clean their windows at home. There's only a couple of filling stations I'm willing to use in my town given the prices and the condition of their equipment. I'll return the favor, and get the hell out of their way.
While I'm ranting about behavior at the filling station, my #1 peeve is people who drive gas vehicles who pull up to the pumps with diesel on them when they have a choice of another pump. Then they want to get
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While I'm ranting about behavior at the filling station, my #1 peeve is people who drive gas vehicles who pull up to the pumps with diesel on them when they have a choice of another pump. Then they want to get angry when you ask them to move to another pump (before they start filling) when they shouldn't have used that one to begin with. Leave it for people who need it, asshole.
Huh. Never thought about that before. I think I'll start doing this since it seems to really enrage you and others like you.
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Odd place USA. Over here every pump has diesel in it. Most also have gasoline. CNG, ethanol, biodiesel and truck diesel are limited in quantity.
In the USA, diesel is unpopular for passenger cars because we had some crappy diesels in the 80s and then we got crappy emissions laws that unfairly penalized diesels even though gasoline vehicles pollute more, and their pollution is more hazardous. Therefore we have less diesel fueling infrastructure. The only numerous diesel vehicles are pickup trucks, and VW golfs and jettas. Since we have no import pickups due to the chicken tax, the demand for diesel is further reduced. The import manufacturers have on
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Re:It might be an issue in the future (Score:4, Funny)
In the USA, diesel is unpopular for passenger cars because we had some crappy diesels in the 80s and then we got crappy emissions laws that unfairly penalized diesels even though gasoline vehicles pollute more, and their pollution is more hazardous.
Found the VW emissions engineer!
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The poster is an idiot. Most places either have a diesel only pump, or all the pumps have a diesel option.
If you're in Oregon, it doesn't matter anyhow since it's illegal to pump your own gas. So you spend at least a half an hour waiting for the kid to finish smoking his joint before spilling gas all over the side of your car.
That has changed somewhat. Now, at gas stations that allow it, you can pump your own between 6:00 in the evening and 6:00 in the morning.
Also, stations on reservations (like the Arrowhead Plaza outside of Pendleton) are self serve all the time, not subject to Oregon's restrictions (and previous ban) on self serve.
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Thanks for the idea. I hate those fucking diesel stinkwagons in front of me in traffic. Good way to say "fuck you" to them at the station. I'll start blocking their pumps as much as possible from now on.
Not as much as they hate you; gasoline vehicles produce more HC, more CO2, just as much soot (only more dangerous soot) and just as much NOx since the advent of urea injection... VWs aside. Further, the HC from gasoline vehicles is more volatile and thus more hazardous than that from diesels.
My diesel stinkwagon only stinks when cold and it barely smokes or stinks even then. It has no emissions equipment so it makes nice big soot particles that are easily swept out of your lungs by cilia there, unlike the s
Re: It might be an issue in the future (Score:3)
It would also be great if people read the post which explicitly quotes Musk citing that feature already existing.
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LOL, you think it takes 10-15 minutes to fill your car with gas. How strong is the tesla reality distortion field.
EPA limits gas pumps to 10 Gal/min for cars and 40 Gal/min for trucks. I have an 18 gal tank so even if it were set to 5 gal/min that would be 4 minutes + lets say 1 minute to swipe you card.
10-15 minutes no way.
All electric cars + high energy density charges might be great, but let's not pretend that it's comparable. Also tesla is doing this to themselves, placing charges next to starbucks
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LOL, you think it takes 10-15 minutes to fill your car with gas. How strong is the tesla reality distortion field.
Due to the existing infrastructure, most never have to wait on a pump to be available either. I think 4 minutes is about normal for my fill ups. I can't recall the last time it took 10, but it would have been after waiting on a pump and including that wait time.
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I took your advice and did so: 2 minutes and 47 seconds to fill up a little over 11 gallons. I even had time to turn off the annoying blaring audio advertisement and decline an up sell car wash. I'm with the first poster: 15 minutes to charge your Tesla is pretty fast, but it's not comparable.
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Y'all aren't real Americans are you?
Us guys (Americans are always guys) have pickup trucks with 100 gallon strap tanks. Cuz Zombies.
They take a while to fill up. So we needs sustenance. Just chill out and have a beer.
That's the big problem with Tesla - putting charging stations near fucking Starbucks. Now if they put them in front of liquor stores like God suggested nobody would give a shit.
Of course, if you all manned up an used real cars and trucks you wouldn't have this problem, would you?
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In my case it goes like this:
I drive into the gas station. Same will be true for Tesla.
I turn off the car, step out, go around to the gas tank. Same will be true for Tesla, just the battery compartment instead.
I unlock the gas tank, grab the nozzle, put it in and start pouring. Won't be much different to plug in a cable on a Tesla, I'm assuming.
I stand there for two, maybe three minutes. I PROMISE you it's no longer than that or I'd freeze my hands off in winter. Tesla will now be 20% done.
I take the nozzle
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5 minutes. Yesterday I added 9.253 gallons (I check my mileage) to my tank. From the time it took to hand over my money (I pay cash), fill the tank, get my change and drive away was about 5 minutes. 6 at the outmost and that was because the guy in front of me, who I thought was going to drive away, continued to sit in his car with the engine running until I drove around him.
I you're taking 10 - 15 minutes to fill your tank and pay for it, you're doing something wrong.
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The other 14 minutes is to go into the station to buy your pork rinds, Big Gulp and scratch-off tickets.
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President Trump. Get used to it. Stop hating the people who voted for him.
Does that include Putin's 'Vote' then?
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if you time it you'll probably find the whole process of filling your car with gas takes ~10-15m.
I cannot see how you get 10-15 minutes to fill your car with petrol - assuming that you don't have to queue. It is easily done in 5 max: 4 to self service fill up, 1 to pay at the pump with your credit card.
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It doesn't take 15 minutes. For a start, it depends on the size of your battery, which ranges from 60 to 100kW. Then it depends on the charge rate, which depends on battery temperature and if anyone else is using the charger that shares the total 150kW available per two cars. Charging shows as the car nears 100% too.
You could easily wait an hour to go from 25% to 100%. While charging people who linger is a good idea, 5 minutes grace is a bit harsh. 20 minutes would allow you to get the notification (bad sig
Re:It might be an issue in the future (Score:5, Informative)
Your Tesla tells you when you car will finish charging, if you think you need 20 minutes grace period I'd suggest you are a perfect candidate for Tesla's fee so you can have the pain modify your insensitivity towards your fellow Tesla owners.
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$90K for the car, $0.40 per minute "asshat fee." A 10% asshat tax on the car would purchase 375 hours of asshat time at the free charging station. As a flat per-minute fee, I don't think it will modify behavior where it really needs to.
If I were setting the rules of the game, it would charge $0.01 for the first minute late, $0.02 for the second (total of $0.03), $0.04 for the third, $0.08 for the fourth, etc. with a "grace" of up to $1 per day free overage charges forgiven. If you haven't paid your overa
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5 minutes grace is a bit harsh. 20 minutes would allow you to get the notification (bad signal), return to the car from the nearby shops and move.
Five minutes is fine. You already have a pretty good estimate of what time your car will finish charging, so you should plan to be back near the car around that time anyway.
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You already have a pretty good estimate of what time your car will finish charging
Not really. If you arrive and another car is already pulling 100kW from the shared charger, your car will pull about 15kW. When the other one starts to slow down as it nears 100%, yours will speed up. It's hard to predict because you can only get a very vague estimate of the other car's state-of-charge from the speed at which the charge port is blinking.
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You are getting "free" fuel (o.k. - pre-paid in the purchase price, but, still, the incentive scheme works like free.)
Have some courtesy to your fellow electromotorists, move your junk out of their way ASAP so they can get their "free" fuel.
Don't these things "drive themselves" anyway? Couldn't it auto-repark after filling up?
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I should say that I drive a Leaf, so I'm well aware of the etiquette and do always move after I've finished charging. That's also why I know it takes more than 15 minutes.
A 65kWh Tesla takes about 50 minutes to go from zero to 100%. Of course no-one actually rolls up with zero. The charge rare also slows down after about 80%.
It would help if they charged for the electricity because then people wouldn't charge to 100% all the time, they would move on as soon as they have enough energy to get to a cheaper sou
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I'm virtually certain it can. I can have my Ford stay heated while charging if I want.
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Well, they're working on a robot supercharger, so I'm sure they're already thinking of that.
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If you have money to buy a testa I would think your time would be a bit more valuable then that. It takes me 3 minutes to fill my tank. So the time to charge up from your specs are 5x as long as a gasoline car.
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You're simply not an early adopter. But you'll be getting an electric vehicle at some point or other.
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Then read a book, or get Kindle Unlimited. Or buy your coffee and hustle your ass back to your car instead of making a pathetic pass at the cute barista.
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Incidentally, if you time it you'll probably find the whole process of filling your car with gas takes ~10-15m.
No. It takes about five minutes.
Their change is completely reasonable -- it says "don't be a fuckhead, get your charge, move, and let other people charge their cars."
Sure, there's nothing wrong with that. Have the car alert you at 90% to give you some additional wiggle room if it takes you more than five minutes to get back to your car.
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15-20 minutes falls well within the ISO standard definition of "a while".
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Ummmm.... including payment (CC at the pump), the "whole process" from parked to driving away from a petrol pump is typically less than 5 minutes for 250 miles (400km) worth of fuel.
The problem with a 15-20 minute charge time is that the kind of fuck-tard who buys a Tesla in the first place can't be tied down to one spot for 20 minutes waiting for something mundane like charging their car, their time is too important for that, gotta go get a latte or something. Is it their fault that the line was so long,
10-15 mins to fill your car with gas? (Score:2)
Incidentally, if you time it you'll probably find the whole process of filling your car with gas takes ~10-15m. Their change is completely reasonable
Whether the electric car charge time is reasonable or not is 100% subjective, but your estimate of gas filling times is a ridiculous, "+1 for TESLA" exaggeration. From turning off the car to tearing off a receipt and driving away (paying by credit card at the pump), a complete 16-20 gallon tank fill-up is 3 minutes tops anywhere I buy gas. Maybe tack on an ex
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So, if the charging power is shared between two cars, you'd be looking at 150 minutes to 100%, or over two hours...
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There's a Starbucks within walking distance of a Tesla station in Tifton, GA -it's actually right behind the Starbucks. Folks plug their cars in and go for coffee or something.
Yep and when their cars are full they should go move them or pay a fee for preventing the charging point being available to others. Just like when you go to a highway service centre you fill up, you go in and pay, then you move the car, and go to sit down and eat.
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How odd, we've had these in the states for years and we don't have a problem, even in the most sleazy and methed-out of towns. For example, I have never had this problem at the Tower Mart in Clear Lake, CA which is surprising because it is fucking meth central. Or, perhaps that's why we don't see this problem. If you try to pull that shit here in the states, someone may shoot you. I guess an armed society really is a polite society ;)
Seriously though, I recall hearing the boys rant about this on Top Gear, a
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AKA (Score:5, Insightful)
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I'm not familiar with the App, but presumably Tesla owners also get some kind of indication through the App of when charging is expected to reach 100%...
If there's not an App like this, someone should get to work monetizing it.
Better yet, many fueling stations of a more traditional type already sell fuel as a loss leader to entice customers into a small store with large markups. Perhaps the charging stations could monetize these 15-20 minute waits?
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The move is NOT different from the so-called zipper method, where cars merge at the point of merging. If San Francisco doesn't want people merging all over the place, they shouldn't create all these artificial merge points in the form of bus stops. The buses don't go where you need them to go anyway. San Francisco is the poster child for needing PRT because their bus drivers are the poster children for being fuckheads, and because the city is not laid out such that buses can get you around usefully.
0.40 / minute after buying a $90k car (Score:2, Insightful)
One... (Score:2)
Damnit One! Ruining it for everyone.
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Damnit One! Ruining it for everyone.
That doesn't make any sense. One person leaving his car at a supercharger too long is ruining it for who? The others who leave their car at the supercharger too long?
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Damnit One! Ruining it for everyone.
That doesn't make any sense. One person leaving his car at a supercharger too long is ruining it for who? The others who leave their car at the supercharger too long?
Everybody else who needs to charge their car, maybe while on the way to stop a new fracking bore hole near the San Andreas rift, or to stop Dr. Evil from testing his new device under Yellowstone, or maybe just of a way to perform brain surgery on the child that will in 20 years defend the planet against the Bugs from Outer Space.
There should be an app for that (Score:2)
You should be able to launch an app that says 'plugging in to charge now' and having it bing you at Starbucks when the charge reaches, say, 95%. It would not be difficult to stipulate that all charging stations be WiFi equipped to support this.
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Or maybe every Tesla car can already communicate with your smart phone using a cellular network and maybe there is already an app from Tesla that does exactly that:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/ap... [apple.com]
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Kudos to Tesla for doing this, but this is not a brand-specific problem. What about all those electric econoboxes out there?
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Kudos to Tesla for doing this, but this is not a brand-specific problem. What about all those electric econoboxes out there?
As far as I can tell, every EV coming out now has connectivity features like this. The Leaf has always had this functionality, and it's not exactly a luxury car. It would be trivial to add to any EV. For old ones, you'd need some kind of voltage monitor module. For new ones, you can presumably query the computer to find out charge status.
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My Ford messages me when it's charged too.
Two comments (Score:3)
First, if you're really interested in this issue, read the FB Tesla Owner's page for a while. The non-flame comments from actual Tesla owners are worth reading thru.
Second, my humble contribution: the fine should only apply if all the slots at a given charging station are full. If there's open slots, leave things as-is.
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Complications confuse people. Tesla simply, reasonably, wants people to train themselves to not use Supercharger spots as parking spots.
A better way... (Score:3)
There is an easier and better solution to this. The chargers talk to each other. There should be no need to move your car if there are still several available chargers. If they are down to just one (or two) free charger left, THEN notify the others they have to move in 5 min and assess the fees.
Charging can take a long time, and if you are dining or shopping, stopping to run and move your car will be a pain. What if you are in a checkout line? What if you haven't paid for lunch? The method I describes can make more people happy, no?
One (Score:3)
One has an obsessive compulsive disorder, one thinks.
getting users to MOVE FROM CHARGING STATION (Score:2)
I don't know if this is possible yet, but how about when your car is charged your given a leeway time and then if you don't remove your car it starts DISCHARGING the BATTERY. An app could let you know when it's almost fully charged (the time preference would be yours) and then you would be ready to be there when your car is fully charged.
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The only way that would really be useful is if you plugged the nose of your car in to charge, and someone else could plug into its arse and steal your charge if you were plugged in too long. But THAT could only be useful if the cars could transfer charge between themselves at very rapid rates...
car needs to be smarter (Score:5, Interesting)
If these cars are smart enough to drive themselves on the highway, why can't they drive themselves away from the charger when they are full, and park themselves? Even better, drop you at the shopping center, go get charged up, then park until you are done shopping and summon them.
Re:car needs to be smarter (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, they've already said that's the long-term plan. The problem is that older cars won't ever be able to drive away, and the Superchargers can't unplug themselves yet.
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If these cars are smart enough to drive themselves on the highway, why can't they drive themselves away from the charger when they are full, and park themselves?
They're not clever enough to do that safely yet. That's why Tesla tells you to use autopilot only on the highway, where the environment is generally less complicated. Eventually they will likely have a fully automated driving solution, but they don't now.
One would never leave a car parked at a gas pump (Score:2)
Hah, bullshit. I see people pump gas, leave their car at the pump, and go inside and do 30 minutes of shopping for beer, ho-hos, beef jerky, and lottery tickets (which they insist on scratching off right there at the counter before they walk away).
Hope (Score:3, Funny)
we hope to never make any money from it
Imagine their disappointment should their hopes shatter.
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He should have said the fees would be donated to a charity as part of the announcement.
One would never leave a car parked at a gas statio (Score:2)
Why yes they do! The gas stations here pretty much force you to by making the pumps take 10+ minutes to fill your 15 gallon gas tank.
They do this to force people to go inside out of the heat or cold so they might buy something other than gas since it's not legal to leave your car running while filling (the backpressure on most newer vehicles will cause problems if you try anyway)
introduces fee? why not 'fine' (Score:2)
Tesla employees not pleb enough... (Score:3)
"One would never leave a car parked at a gas station right at the pump"
Guess they've never been so middle-class as to have to use a combo gas station/chain restaurant before. 76+Subway, anyone?
Just goes even further to show that Tesla is sorely out of touch with societal reality.
Oh this sounds so friendly (Score:3)
Tesla Introduces Fee For Owners...
Oh this sounds so friendly....
Tesla: "Hi, we're Tesla, and we'd like to introduce you to our new fee. Well, it's not really a "fee", that's such a harsh word, ha ha. We're just going to charge you by the minute for not immediately moving your car. We like to think of it as a 'getting to know you and your wallet' kinda thing. And of course if you don't pay us, we'll turn off your car. Gosh, we hope that doesn't happen while you're zooming down the highway!"
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If you don't have a phone or a watch with you and an unable to mentally estimate how long 10 minutes is then simply get your latte and return to your car.
Or skip the money from the latte purchase and buy a watch at the nearest Dollar Store.
Your $100k Tesla will tell you when it will be fully charged.
If you still can't figure it out, you probably should be using Uber/Lyft instead of driving.
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Re: phone (Score:5, Funny)
So who can afford a Tesla but not a phone?
This is 100% fair.
What if your phone is charging?
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Phones work while they are charging.
Go to your nearest Apple Genius Bar for further help using your iPhone.
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Phones work while they are charging.
Go to your nearest Apple Genius Bar for further help using your iPhone.
So, then just sit in your car with the phone. What a brilliant solution you have there.
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Phones work while they are charging.
Go to your nearest Apple Genius Bar for further help using your iPhone.
So, then just sit in your car with the phone. What a brilliant solution you have there.
Phones can be charged places other than cars. There are even portable battery packs.
In reality, though, this is a non-problem. If you're at a supercharger station it's because you've been driving a long distance, and almost certainly had your phone charging in the car while driving. Also, even without the phone notification, when you plug your car in to charge you get a fairly decent estimate of what time it will be finished... so just be back to the car around then.
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How's the alternative working out for you? They don't make you pay any fees at gas stations, do they?
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Since we're moving towards self driving cars, the next step for TESLA should be to have the car unplug and move itself after having completed charge.
Just as soon as Tesla sells the little robot that unplugs the car as an accessory. Driving off with the wires still attached seems, well, expensive.
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Exactly. And at the current rate, $4 for 10mins of parking is cheap in some areas. This is also ripe for abuse in this respect..and I'm astounded people are complaining about $0.40 per minute, it's actually not very much at all.