SolidRun x86 Braswell MicroSoM Runs Linux and Full Windows 10, Destroys Raspberry Pi (betanews.com) 205
BetaNews has a report today about a company called SolidRun, which has announced an Intel Braswell-based MicroSoM. Unlike the ARM-powered Raspberry Pi, this is x86 compatible, meaning it can run full Windows 10. Plus, if you install a Linux distro, there will be far more packages available, such as Google Chrome, which is not available for Pi. Heck, it can probably serve as a secondary desktop, Brian with the site writes. From the report: At 53mm by 40mm, these new MicroSoMs provide unheard of design flexibility while also eliminating the headache of having to design complicated power-delivery subsystems thanks to its single power input rail design. SolidRun's Braswell MicroSoM also offers flexibility in RAM options, ranging from 1GB to 8GB configurations, and offers on-board support of eMMC storage up to 128GB. Its robust design and unsurpassed HD Edge surveillance, event detection, and statistical data-extraction capabilities makes it the platform of choice for mission-critical applications requiring guaranteed reliability," says Solidrun.It starts at $117, the website has more details on specifications.
Why compare to the pi? (Score:5, Insightful)
Orders of magnitude more expensive. This should be compared to a $115 dollar laptop or Android device, not a $35 embedded device.
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Indeed. While there are plenty of devices in the same price range than the Pi that are massively better designed (the RPi design team is both incompetent and using inferior components because of their tie with Broadcom, see, e.g., the bad networking and USB and missing SATA), this one here is not even in the competition.
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Exactly. It totally misses the point of the pi. An x86 board with a pi-compatible layout and GPIO pins (and a sata port would be nice), for under $50 and you'd be in the territory of 'outcompeting the pi'. It is competing against stuff more like this: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/... [rs-online.com]
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Some of us consider a doubling an order of magnitude. (Due to working with binary systems.)
Re: Why compare to the pi? (Score:2)
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Isn't a doubling a doubling?
And also a binary order of magnitude, as GP said.
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ln(157/35)/ln(10)~0.65 ;)
So : 0.65 order of magnitude
x86 is a plus (Score:2)
Not for Windows 10 anything, but having this based on x86 certainly enables one to run not just standard embedded Linuxes, but just about every other good embedded OS that's there - Minix, QNX, Haiku, OS/2 and all other OSs that are out there.
Is this a 32 or 64 bit platform? Which CPU - Atom? What other chipsets for graphics and WiFi?
Re:x86 is a plus (Score:5, Insightful)
plenty of tiny form factor x86 computers out there in that price range
this has nothing to do with the pi market. zero.
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Actually all a lie. The ie "SolidRun x86 Braswell MicroSoM runs Linux and full Windows 10" is a lie, from the article itself "The board itself, which starts at $117, will not operate on its own." so it runs bugger all and "you must add the SolidPC Q4 single-board 'carrier' computer which is $40. In other words, you are looking at a minimum of $157 -- you could buy four Raspberry Pi 3 computers". Does no one read the article any more, not even the writer of the article.
At the base price it comes with 1GB o
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USB or PCI-E based e-net? (Score:2)
USB or PCI-E based e-net?
The pi's sheared usb for all sucks and can't even hit full 100/100 speeds.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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Does the SolidRun "destroy" the Pi? From a raw performance perspective, absolutely. That cannot be denied. Some folks will take issue with that claim due to the price difference, and I understand that point. But again, just looking at performance and potential, it is no contest. If a Raspberry Pi 3 meets your needs, however, then more power to you.
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The raspberry pi 2 and 3 will run a crippled version of windows 10.
If you want uncrippled windows you need x86.
Pricey (Score:2)
Re:Pricey (Score:5, Informative)
Big difference: The RaspberryPi has TTL I/O. This makes it easy to do any of a wide variety of hardware interfacing. This new board only has UART ports, which means if you want to do an easy hardware project, you need another microcontroller, tool-chain, etc.
There is a definite market for prototype devices that talk Ethernet, WiFi, UART, SPI, I2C and hardware I/O too. The Raspberry Pi does that well, and inexpensively.
Re: Pricey (Score:2)
Umm... (Score:5, Insightful)
Next you'll tell me that I can get larger hard drives just by paying more for them; or shovel more packets by telling my vendor to include 10gigE instead of the default gigE NIC.
Snark aside, it looks like they have a perfectly solid little x86 SBC there; but outperforming something that costs 1/3 to 1/4 as much as you do is 'occupying a different niche' not 'destroying'.
No GPIO? No Sale! (Score:5, Insightful)
The first thing I did was look and see what it had for GPIOs with a small hope that it might even be at some level compatible with the RPi.
None? I might as well buy a cheap mini-itx board.
While I would love more horsepower for some projects I need GPIO's, I2C and SPI for interfacing.
This one's a non starter and certainly doesn't destroy the RPi and as others have pointed out it has no community support whatsoever.
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LattePanda ? http://www.lattepanda.com/ [lattepanda.com]
I'm currently considering one of these for a DSP/Synth project I am working on. Although that will still have a small squadron of smaller boards (including 'Pis) working with it.
I love the horsepower, memory potential, and especially the M2 connection of the SolidRun but, as you said, for my uses GPIO etc is a must
Re: No GPIO? No Sale! (Score:2)
No comparison (Score:5, Insightful)
SolidRun x86 Braswell MicroSoM Runs Linux and Full Windows 10, Destroys Raspberry Pi
It starts at $117
Well then it doesn't really destroy Raspberry Pi, then, does it?
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Well yeah, it does on the raw computing performance front and x86 compatibility if you need that. But it fails on every other parameter.
Way too expensive and no GPIO/TTL are the biggest failures.
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My Mac Pro destroys the Pi too yet somehow I still find uses for my raspberry pi collection. Like the one sitting out on my deck with a camera module hooked to a battery and solar panel. I'd hate to stick a 3,000 dollar computer out there not to mention I'd need a hell of a lot more batteries and multiple/bigger solar panels.
Destroys Raspberry Pi? (Score:5, Insightful)
.
- cost: $117 --- fail
- runs full Windows 10 --- irrelevant
- significant (outstanding?) maker community support --- fail
.
So that's a minus 2.5 out of a possible 3. Not a fail, but an abundance of hype.
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Yes, you are reading that correctly. The board itself, which starts at $117, will not operate on its own. To make it a full-fledged usable device for projects and other uses, you must add the SolidPC Q4 single-board 'carrier' computer which is $40. In other words, you are looking at a minimum of $157
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And no GPIO/TTL without adding a separate board.
The pi and this aren't great deals (Score:2)
Windows 10 with display keyboard touchscreen touchpad about $100 from any good discount electronics
http://nextbookusa.com/product... [nextbookusa.com]
Android with display/touchscreen $37
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/di... [bestbuy.com]
Seen this before! (Score:2)
No wireless.
Antiquated headphone jack.
Lame!
What about a detailed datasheet? (Score:5, Insightful)
So does this SoM have a detailed datasheet on how to interface and boot it or will that require a NDA like everything else that Intel releases? What about drivers, are they open source or binary blobs?
Just looking out for my freedoms.
Are you frigging kidding me? (Score:2)
The point of RPI is to attach a breadboard to GPIO ports, experiment with sensors/servos and then solder up a project for personal use, or even ship a Kickstarter project.
This board does not have any GPIO ports, much less a massive support community. x86 vs ARM is irrelevant for this kind of custom code. You are not going to be running Microsoft Word or playing steam games on an embedded board.
If anything, an improvement on RPI would be better power management without sacrificing ability to develop software
More Betanews bullshit from Manish (Score:2)
Someone is missing the point. (Score:2)
That point being that not everything needs a full GUI interfaced OS to do it's job. More often than not monitoring and controlling 4 or 8 variables is made harder by trying to do it with a desktop/laptop/tablet OS.
Does it support Intel AMT? (Score:3, Funny)
Does it support Intel Advanced Management Technology?
After all, you wouldn't want an embedded controller the NSA didn't have access to, would you? The terrorists might win!
DESTROYS Raspberry Pi! (Score:3)
DESTROYS Raspberry Pi! *
* Costs several times as much.
destroys the raspberry pi (Score:3)
what a load of shit
* costs 4 times as much (157$)
* runs an x86 (fuck the monoculture)
* no gpio whatsoever
* who cares about windows 10 on embedded systems ??
* no info on power consumption...
From TFA (Score:3)
The Raspberry Pi is popular for three major reasons -- it is small, inexpensive, and doesn't consume a lot of electricity.
Those are all good reasons to get a Raspberry Pi, but for me the top reason is because of the community that exists around the PI.
Anytime I have a question, or if I need to figure out how to do something new, there will be some clever friendly person who has either done it before and made their code available, or someone who will give me a pointer towards getting it done myself.
Every other Raspberry Pi killer I've seen touted around the place lacks that and so they don't "Destroy" the Raspberry Pi after all.
x86 UEFI isn't Linux friendly. (Score:3)
Breaking news (Score:2)
Something priced over 50 times higher than the $5 Raspberry pi Zero is only a few times faster than it?
It can only be compared to Galileo/Edison/Quark (Score:2)
- Static operation
- Power usage
- Bus types and compatibility
- Silicon die size (affecting price)
So far x86 devices have not been winning.
In this case you can only really compare this device with the Intel IoT devices which I believe offer more functionality for less price.
So this Slashvertisement only serves to google-cache the fact that this device loses to x86 IoT devices and absolutely cannot be compared to the Rasp
If you're frugal (Score:2)
Destroys Rasberry Pi? (Score:2)
You mean the board actually stood up, walked over to the Rasberry Pi standing nearby and crushed it to pieces? ...
What happend to normal sentences like "Runs XYZ benchmark 5 times faster than the Rasberry Pi using half the energy" or something like that?
Is this the effect the US political debate has on language? Probably.
Flamebait Title (Score:2)
"Destroys Raspberry Pi" Really? They had to know this was BS when they posted it so obviously it was designed just to get the flames going. Sad!
This would be cool if... (Score:2)
Community (Score:3)
The power of the raspberry pi isn't that it is cheap. There are $9 Arm systems these days. It is the fact that there's a large established community of people who are around to answer questions and blog about what they're up to. None of the Pi Killers have anything close to the momentum.
Re:Apples and Oranges (Score:5, Informative)
It starts at $157 because you need a connecting board which is $40.
Re:Apples and Oranges (Score:5, Informative)
From the sounds of the article it doesn't include a case, RAM or storage in the price.
So basically it's a barebones mini PC, competing with Intel NUC or Gigabyte Brix and at roughly the same price as their entry-level models.
"Raspberry Pi" only adds to the clickbait.
Re:Apples and Oranges (Score:4, Interesting)
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You could probably just stick a display driver board and a regular KVM board inside an actual old gutted laptop, provided you know how to connect keyboard/trackpad to the USB on the KVM.
Tablet keyboard/case + Liliput mini-monitor (Score:2)
A folding case and USB keyboard is $8 (designed for tablet use).
https://www.amazon.com/SANOXY-... [amazon.com]
Instead of putting a tablet in that case, you can put a small monitor in there. Liliput is a well-known brand that sells monitors from 7-12" or so.
Any laptop, for Linux servers (Score:2)
If your servers are Linux, you're probably using the CLI, a text console. In that case, just enable the serial console. Grub can use the serial console too. The BIOS can use the serial console on some motherboards. "Screen" is one handy way to connect to the serial console.
If your servers don't have serial ports, you can get a cable that is USB on both ends. It's basically two back-to-back USB/serial adapters.
If you Windows on your servers because you like to click on pretty pictures, that's a bit more di
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There's a laptop shell that uses USB (Displaylink chip), even more low common denominator than VGA since phones are only really guaranteed to have USB as a working external input/output. No VGA out either on Raspberry Pi or this story's computer, unless you use an active dongle. But you'll likely want at least USB 3.0 on the computer you connect the "shell" to.
There's no real computer smarts inside to have it also do laptop operation, but that's a start.
It seems not available yet, too.
Pretty decent if you c
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The closest I've seen is a single port KVM over IP, like the Lantronix Spider. Unfortunately, they're about $300, and need a java browser plugin.
https://www.amazon.com/1PORT-USB-Remote-KVM-Spider/dp/B000OH5MDO
Re:Apples and Oranges (Score:5, Insightful)
Totally different beast. It might be useful but not as a competitor to Raspberry Pi.
Would make for a good router. (Score:3)
Re:Would make for a good router. (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? (Score:5, Insightful)
These boards aren't really *that* type of embedded system. They're more like smaller PCs really. If there's a simple job that would work great on an old/underpowered computer, but which you want to do ideally on low power, and without a huge metal box (perhaps with very minimal I/O usage) then it's a good solution. Especially if it has to display something on a monitor or TV.
If you want lots of advanced peripherals, a lightweight RTOS and such (instead of a more "desktop-like" OS), then you're definitely looking at the wrong thing.
I personally found out I have little use for these things. Most of the "simple computer" tasks I do work better inside VMs (no need for a display mainly), and most of the stuff that involves "serious" I/O and an RTOS is far better suited to ARM Cortex devices.
I don't think too many people will buy it. Sure, it's x86 and fast, but it's much more expensive than a Raspbarry Pi ($157+), to the point where it's not even targeting the same market anymore. It has *zero* GPIO too (so it's really just a small computer), and it just won't have the community around it which is 90% of the Raspberry Pi's value...
Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? (Score:4, Informative)
The board itself, which starts at $117, will not operate on its own. To make it a full-fledged usable device for projects and other uses, you must add the SolidPC Q4 single-board 'carrier' computer which is $40. In other words, you are looking at a minimum of $157
Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? (Score:4, Interesting)
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But it's not that much better.
You have a really funny personal definition of better
This thing is over twice as fast, has better peripherals and interconnects onboard, can have oodles more memory, and on-board eMMC.
if not better due to GPIO and a massive community
It has the same physical layout as an RPi, including the 40-pin header exposing GPIO and other peripheral bus interfaces.
And you're going to have a hard-sell saying an Intel machine has a smaller community than an RPi.
That all being said,
It's definitely not competitive to the RPi in markets where people care about the pr
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http://www.up-board.org/ [up-board.org]
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The Pi, and Arduino, each do a specific thing very well. That is why they sell in such large numbers.
The idea that Windows has any place in this game is an idea promoted by Windows fanboys and Microsoft. Like Windows 8 Phone and Tablet. An attempt to say "me too!". Late to the game, and what do they bring to the game . . . windows.
objectivity and decent business journalism? (Score:3)
Yes. With noise, as has always been the case. And yes again, the style and intensity and focus of the noise shifts with time.
/., for all anybody's criticisms, is still easily filterable by setting the minimum score for comments presented to you.
So set it to 5, and you'll be a bunny of higher happiness.
Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? (Score:5, Informative)
Would you not want to run a real RTOS on an embedded system?
Many embedded applications are not "real time". Even those that are, will often offload the RT functionality to an 8-bit AVR or PIC, or an FPGA, and then run Linux to handle the high level stuff on the ARM or x86. I have developed embedded systems, including mission critical hard real-time, for more than 20 years, and I have never used an RTOS in a final product. They raise the cost, reduce reliability, and are hard to debug.
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If I did need an RTOS I'm not so sure I'd even trust hardware like the RPi to run it. If it's that critical that it works, then running it on a cheap board seems like a false economy.
Re: Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? (Score:5, Insightful)
What you're saying goes 100% against every book I've read, every professor I've talked to, every lecture I've attended, all industry experts and so on...
A true example of the "If you can't do, teach" joke.
Also maybe you should find some better books. Not only is offloading realtime to dedicated processors very much the industry norm, the fact you say "crappy" when talking about 8 bitters shows how little you know of the topic, and the fact you said "8 bitters" shows how little you know of the world.
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You can only justify 8bits if you have an already tested and production ready product. And even then, if you need incremental development over that product, restarting at 32 might be cheaper.
Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? (Score:5, Informative)
Not quite true A.C. The instructions for those old 8-bit CPUs could be synchronized down to a single clock tick (basically crystal accuracy), thus allowing perfect read and write sampling of I/O directly. We could do direct synthesis and A/D sampling, for example, with no cycle error, as well as synchronize data streams and then burst data with no further handshaking. It is impossible to do that with a modern CPU, so anything which requires crystal-accurate output has to be offloaded to (typically an FPGA).
RTOSs only work up to a point, particularly because modern CPUs have supervisory interrupts (well, Intel at least has the SMI) which throw a wrench into the works. But also because it is literally impossible to count cycles for how long something will take. A modern RTOS works at a much higher level than the RTOSs and is unable to provide the same rock solid guarantees that the 8-bit RTOSs could.
-Matt
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I should add, the evidence of this is plentiful. Anyone remember the days of IDE PIO ? Before IDE DMA and in particular before command and data blocks could be fully buffered by a hardware FIFO in the control, IDE PIO was a complete disaster. It barely worked (and quite often didn't). And we had to pull out the stops as device driver writers to get it work as well as it did (which wasn't very well).
-Matt
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"every book I've read, every professor I've talked to, every lecture I've attended" pretty much says it all.
Some of us have been in this game a long time. Decades. Some of us still love the subject and, unlike the more recent crop of 'developers' still care about efficiency and choosing the right tool for the job. Smaller, more efficient, low power consuming and easy to program 8/16 bit units are used all the time, and for good reason. An RTOS does add additional overheads and can consume precious clock cyc
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Maybe you should realize that every SDcard, eMMC, WiFi, or Bluetooth chip, contain a processor (generally 32 bits this days) to offload your main CPU.
Seriously, if a main processor with a RTOS will be able to do all by itself, then all peripherals would be virtual with just AFE to convert to/from analog signals.
The reality is that toady even small controllers contain DMA engine, interrupt controller and peripheral state machines good enough to offload the core from most of the communication fast low level d
Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? (Score:4, Informative)
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Yupp. Soft realtime is where it is. Even in telecoms we don't do any hard realtime if it can be avoided. It's specialised hardware (including co-processors) where that's required, but controlling it can be left to soft realtime systems. (I.e. Linux on a board).
The main thing in that case is instead reliability, but hard real time isn't required. As you say, that's for control systems, but even those tend to isolate into specific co-processors rather than rely on much in the way of an RTOS capabilities anywa
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Would you not want to run a real RTOS on an embedded system?
Not every embedded system needs a RTOS.
Actually that was wrong.
Most embedded systems don't need a RTOS.
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Re:model Slashdot response (MS DOS-ickies r.i.p.) (Score:4, Informative)
Looks interesting... I've pre-ordered two (both cpu models, 4G) for DragonFlyBSD, we'll get it working on them. Dunno about the SD card, but a PCIe SSD would certainly work. BIOS is usually the sticking point on these types of devices. Our graphics stack isn't quite up to Braswell yet but it might work in frame buffer mode (without accel). We'll see. The rest of it is all standard intel insofar as drivers are concerned.
My network dev says the Gigabit controller is crap :-) (he's very particular). But for a low-end device like this nobody will care.
All the rest of the I/O is basically just pinned out from the Intel cpu. Always fun to remark on specs, but these days specs are mostly just what the cpu chip/chipset supports directly.
I'm amused that some people in other comments are so indignant about the pricing. Back in the day, those of us who hacked on computers (Commodore, Atari, TRS-80, Apple-II, later the Amiga, etc) saved up and spent what would be equivalent to a few thousand dollars (in today's dollars) to purchase our boxes. These days enthusiast devices are *cheap* by comparison. My PET came with 16KB of ram and a tape cassette recorder for storage, and I later expanded it to 32KB and thought it was godly.
-Matt
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At launch (in 1983), an Apple //e with 68 Kilobytes of RAM, a single 140 Kilobyte floppy drive, and a monochrome 560x192 monitor was $2,000 (discounted from MSRP of $2,200). That's 4,832.27 in today's dollars.
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So, even more over bloated, inefficient, security challenging, buggy current slurping rubbish except that its now embedded in a unit that isn't going to be updated because its locked into a poorly conceived quickly hacked to market 'embedded' system. Lovely....
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* and Microsoft's carefully** selected partners.
** selected based on amount willing to pay
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Because there are many more Windows programmers than embedded system programmer. It opens up to a wider range of developers.
Given that I haven't met a Windows programmer under the age of 35 that even knows what a register is or how it works, I don't think that is particularly a good thing. Most seem to think that programming for the 'internet' is the only example of computer science that matters. Quite sad actually.
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If that's the bar for competing with a Raspberry Pi, try a $2.85 ESP32, or what ever that new competitor is that runs a Cortex M4.
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This destroys the Raspberry PI for 4Euros :
https://www.dlsweb.rmit.edu.au... [rmit.edu.au]
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That's waaaay overkill. Heck, even an Arduino is way overkill for those applications. All you need is a very simple little 8-bit PIC with a couple of I/O lines and less than 100 lines of C.
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Yes, it is a good time to spend the money, before it becomes utterly useless. Fail to learn how the Great Depression worked and what it did to the Dollar, did we?
Re: $5 RasPi Zero (Score:2)
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There is no excuse for "I cant buy one" except laziness.
You can even check if they are in stock in major suppliers here - http://whereismypizero.com/
Sure, you cant buy them in batches ( 1 per customer), but i got mine in Pimoroni and arrived in 2 days.
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The zero is a marketing stunt.
The product is not available because the raspi foundation makes a loss on it. I would rather pay 30-50% more but have it available.
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How much is that 12 TB or RAM again? And how many thousands of dollars is each single one of those processors again for that four socket board?
The real point being, that performance comparison of a Pi to something more expensive is probably not really meaningful. The Pi does something that fills a real need. Tha