Elon Musk To Unveil Solar Roof With Storage, Charger Next Month (bloomberg.com) 79
Elon Musk plans to unveil Tesla and SolarCity's new solar roof product, which will come integrated with version 2.0 of the Tesla's PowerWall solar storage battery for the home, as well as a Tesla car charger, he said today. Bloomberg adds: Billionaire Elon Musk, the chairman and the largest shareholder of both Tesla and SolarCity Corp., announced his plans to unveil the new product in a message on Twitter Thursday. SolarCity's board agreed to Tesla's offer to buy the biggest U.S. rooftop solar supplier on Aug. 1. The product fits into his long-term vision of helping provide green homes that run on solar energy and use battery storage to help power systems, including charging electric cars, even after sundown. He announced in August that SolarCity is developing a "solar roof," a roofing product that incorporates solar technology without using standard photovoltaic panels.
Wot? (Score:3)
"a roofing product that incorporates solar technology without using standard photovoltaic panels."
Since I can't possibly RTFA, what technology does it use if not solar panels?
Re:Wot? (Score:5, Informative)
It's shingles that incorporate PV cells.
So, instead of panels sitting over shingles, it's just the shingles.
Re:Wot? (Score:5, Informative)
Well, it's more for prospective installs where someone says "I can't do solar because my roof is shit, and I can't put panels over a shitty roof."
Now, when you're replacing the shitty roof, you put these on instead. That's the idea here.
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Sometimes it's not just the idea, but the technology, price and convenience have to reach convergence.
Like tablets. For years I read comments on Slashdot saying tablets would never be useful or practical, and they weren't... until they were.
Now commenters point to products like the Newton and say, 'tablets are nothing new, we had this te
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Well, it's more for prospective installs where someone says "I can't do solar because my roof is shit, and I can't put panels over a shitty roof."
Now, when you're replacing the shitty roof, you put these on instead. That's the idea here.
Thats a shitty idea. Why not just replace your shitty roof with one of the many very low cost options available, and put cheaper, standardized, more easily replaceable solar panel array on just the parts with good exposure?
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Perhaps the "solar shingle" roof would be cheaper than a similar-quality roof plus solar panels? I don't know if that's the case, but I can certainly imagine it being so eventually.
As one example - imagine "solar shingles" designed with the same basic form-factor as standard pro-panel sheets - when you're putting on a new roof you just use photo-panel instead of pro-panel wherever you have good solar exposure, with wiring safely sandwiched between the panel and roof deck.
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I think this product, if it ever really even hits the market, will be limited to high end customers kind of like the Tesla, but for certain architectural applications and not common rooftops. The unknown is what are the prep and structural requirements beneat
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True. However, solar panels are already sturdy and weather proof all on their own, and get used for leaky carport and pavilion roofs, they're simply not designed to interlock in a weathertight fashion. It certainly seems possible that you could add the ability to interlock the already-weatherproof solar panels more cheaply than you could put a weatherproof roof underneath them.
Basically you wouldn't be eliminating the cost of the panels, you'd be eliminating the cost of the roof underneath them. As for a
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The *roofing* is indeed much cheaper, but don't forget the cost of labor. Even with solar the cost of installation often exceeds the cost of the panels themselves.
Besides, if you're looking at financing a new roof + solar installation, even if it ended up shaving off only 10% it would make things that much more attractive.
And I seem to recall that Solar City offers something like "pay nothing up front and less than your current electric bill" financing options for standard solar panels. If you could get
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You can ignore the hell out of this. It is, after all, the American Way.
Re:Wot? (Score:5, Informative)
It's shingles that incorporate PV cells.
Here is a better article with a picture of the panels [electrek.co].
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It does not mean that Tesla's solar roof will look anything like this.
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Re:Wot? (Score:4, Funny)
I had shingles. I don't recommend it. It hurts and the damage can potentially be permanent.
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"So, instead of panels sitting over shingles, it's just the shingles."
Old idea. If you do a new roof, just use normal solar panels _as_ shingles, after all you just need to add impermeable joints between them.
Much cheaper than a couple of hundred single shingles that have to have connectors on several sides.
Re: Wot? (Score:5, Informative)
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Plywood, tar paper, economy shingles are very cheap materials and a lot of people can work on them. Which means the labor is relatively cheap. No much room for savings and price matching here.
Suntegra is doing solar tiles for a while now. As you may expect, they are flat and dark, so it aesthetics may be satisfactory for few tile roofs only.
http://www.suntegrasolar.com/a... [suntegrasolar.com]
As for the Musk - you know that guy. Most likely you will see overhyped and overpriced disruptive invention of the wheel, and the real
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It says not "standard panels" so we'll have to see on the day they announce it. Probably some sort of hybrid design that the cells are embedded in to possbly like sheets that form a roof sorta like the metal roofing I've seen around.
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Probably some sort of hybrid design that the cells are embedded in to possbly like sheets that form a roof sorta like the metal roofing I've seen around.
You can buy this stuff now, but it's wicked expensive. If he were to offer a metal roofing product with a reasonably-priced PV panel attached to it, that would be fairly compelling stuff. All the wiring goes under the roof cap so unless a tree branch falls on it or something it's all very well-protected by a stamped piece of metal with few seams.
I hope it's that simple. Maybe it's made of recycled Aluminum? That would be even cooler than steel. I fear it's made out of some kind of plastic, and I don't just
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We're not sure what he means by this, but he's referred to an upcoming product that was going to be a "solar roof not solar panels on a roof". I imagine this is what they're referring to.
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Standard panels are mounted over the top of standard roofing shingles, often with a small air gap. There have been some solar shingle products in the past where special photovoltaic shingles are used instead of asphalt shingles. The problems include that they're much more expensive, much less efficient, and must more labor intensive to install. From the sound of the hype, I'm expecting a new product that overcomes all three of those shortfalls.
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Is there any particular reason these shingles are less efficient? The only reasons I can think of being less efficient are because 1. they inevitably have less area than mounted panels, and capture less power and 2. they're reliant on the angle of the roof, meaning less-than-ideal positioning. But are they actually different in any other respects?
For what it's worth I'm basically envisioning shingles with smaller PV panels in the center of them.
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Very few residential solar panels are installed in a configuration other than parallel to the roof.
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No, there's no good reason for the solar shingles to use inferior PV cells, but they do. The shingle design is bad because they're much smaller than a typical panel, requiring much more wiring for a given surface area.
I'm guessing that they'll have something that mimics a metal roof more than a shingle roof, but we'll find out soon enough.
What would be absolutely revolutionary would be something that is self-healing, such that roofers can drive nails through it, cut holes in it, etc., and have it still wor
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We do have solar PV film being developed here at the UW, but we only have it running around 8-10 percent efficiency and we need to scale up the process so the costs are closer to traditional solar panels. They do have the advantage you mention of continuing to work even after you drive nails through them, or sustaining minor storm damage. With traditional PV solar roof panels, damage to a panel drops output dramatically, leading to replacement.
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http://www.wolframalpha.com/in... [wolframalpha.com]
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As long as the roof moves so that all the roof area faces the sun directly.
In the real world, the usable area of a roof is much lower and factors such as weather, shading, etc. mean that 8% efficiency isn't going to be useful in most installations.
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The shingle ones had to be made of a material that had roofing properties as well as PV properties. Was it thin-film PV I forget. Anywaythat material was just not as efficient at converting photons to electric current.
Also, you face inefficiencies in conducting the current from shingle to shingle in a complex built-in wiring and connector network. Also, that's presumeably prone to failures of various kinds.
Big panels have simpler and more efficient designs for getting the current marshalled together and go
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Not really surprising, as Bloomberg is reporting a tweet here.
And yes, that's incredibly stupid.
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I imagine solar thermal panels.
No, the system is PV, not thermal. Thermal is okay if you want hot water, but for electricity, it just doesn't work on the small scale. You need pipes, pumps, turbines, etc. Even on the large scale, electricity from thermal is not keeping up with the falling price of PV.
Re:Wot? Aussie PV water cooled panels (Score:1)
I want combination PV-thermal panels; photovoltaic on the top surface, water channels underneath to keep the panels cool (and thus more efficient) and preheat household water, possibly even a substantial hot-water cistern for full-home heating in the cooler months or overnight. They're available in Australia, but I haven't seen them in the US.
Until recently, most of the US didn't get to 50 C in temps for weeks on end. It's likely that the SouthWest might be prime for this, but the South is still resistent to non fossil fuel solutions, out of a misguided sense of "loyalty".
Probably by 2020?
But can we... (Score:2)
But can we hack it?
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Of course, then the autopilot will drive your house under a semi while you fumble around trying to find the "Apply the brakes" hack.... After the crash, the whole thing catches fire because of a loose battery connection in the garage caused by a manual assembly... Finally the firemen will stand and watch your house burn to the ground with your dead lifeless body strapped to the couch because they are afraid of getting shocked, and you generally appear dead already...
But Tesla will claim to be able to fix
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Oh, hi Bertel Schmitt.
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"translation = expensive (both to install, and to replace)"
Given that SolarCitys entire business model is to install & own the panels and sell you the electricity at a rate less than your utility that would be pretty self defeating. More likely they're trying to streamline installation (which is a big chunk of their cost) and get more customers.
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what technology does it use if not solar panels?
Hot air. Which is used to inflate the price of Musk's stock.
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And more batteries to explode and catch on fire and burn families to death!
No, that's your phone.
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Batteries exploding? These aren't some micro batteries pumped off of an assembly line by the millions with little to no testing like a phone or subject to the abuse that road going batteries have to deal with on a daily basis (debris, shock, heat, etc). And even cars have only encountered a handful of fires, most of those appear to have been due to outside sources (mis-wired chargers, debris on the road, crashes, etc).
In Scaling There Is Molten Stench (Score:2)
A Powerwall... you mean a grid-connected scaled up version of a Samsung battery?
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A Powerwall... you mean a grid-connected scaled up version of a Samsung battery?
Yes, built right into the wooden frame of your home.
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Except that absurd thinness is not an arbitrarily tacked on mission requirement, so unlike Samsung's batteries, is not squashed flat as a credit card, and has a proper barrier between the anode and cathode, and has better charge circuitry.
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A more comfortable absurd thickness then. Well, okay.
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And has an energy density that will burn through a garage fire rated wall in probably a minute or less...
Storm damage (Score:1)
Storm damage repair just got a lot more expensive.
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Who said your insurance excess is going to go up? It won't make a dent until it's widespread.
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Along with your insurance rates....
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Um, the battery is inside. If it gets damaged, you have far more serious problems than that.
Okay, sure (Score:2)
Okay, sure, but will these 'revolutionary' solar thingamabobs travel at supersonic speed in a never-to-be-built hyperloop? And can they double as a delicious desert topping or furniture polish? Cuz the suckers, errr, I mean "investors" lol are gonna have questions and you wanna get your story straight right off the bat.
This will be great for Tiny Houses (Score:1)
One stop shopping!
Money is tight (Score:1)
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