Hardware For a Cheap Linux Desktop (phoronix.com) 207
An anonymous reader writes: Outside of the limelight of Intel's Core "Skylake" processors is the cheapest model, a $60 Intel Pentium G4400 dual-core processor that runs at 3.3Gz and has built-in HD Graphics 510. Ubuntu Linux results for this CPU show the cut-down Skylake graphics are the worst aspect of this budget processor while the CPU performance is okay if speed isn't a big factor and your workloads don't mind the lack of AVX support. To pair with the cheap Skylake Pentium processors are more Intel H110-powered motherboards appearing, with some also retailing for under $60 while being basic yet functional as a severely cutdown version of the Intel Z170 chipset. If pursuing this route for a budget Linux PC, it's possible to build a socketed Skylake system for less than $200.
Those of you who have recently built, or are planning out a new budget Linux machine, what internals do you recommend?
AMD (Score:2, Informative)
I have a couple of AMD based desktops I use as file / compute servers. Both running Ubuntu and hosting VM's with VirtualBox and running as fileservers with software RAID-5 and RAID-10. The CPU's are 6 and 8 core and were fairly cheap. Graphics was not a consideration and the machines are servers.
Re: (Score:2)
Cheap motherboards from the dawn of time quite often have 6 or 8 SATA ports. Even small tower cases tend to have space for plenty of drives.
Re: (Score:2)
The larger server has four spinning drives and one small non-RAID SSD for the OS. MB supports six SATA drives, tower case supports even more. Backup is to an external (removable) USB drive and is accomplished via rsync and tar.
Re: (Score:3)
I have a 14 drive NAS box based on an old AMD board with 8 sata ports on board and I combine that with a cheap highpoint sas controller to add 8 more ports...
Bla Bla Bla (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Sounds like a power hog
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Depends on where you live. Power cost in Australia actually makes it worth considering. For example I have a NAS which has 12GB of storage RAIDZ based on 14 drives and I'm going to replace it this holiday break because new 4 x 6tb hard drives will give me more space and the electricity cost will pay back in 18 months.
I still got some PII 450 Mhz (Score:2)
I still got some PII 450 MHz out in the shed I think. Are you saying they aren't good to use as space heaters?
Re: Bla Bla Bla (Score:5, Interesting)
Buying new parts will always be more expensive than used parts - take a look at slightly older off-lease systems... You'll get faster parts for fewer dollars at the expense of heat/power consumption.
Re: (Score:2)
I'd love to know where you found an entire machine with those specs (or even without the SSD) for $200.
Re: (Score:2)
If you go the hex core route, look for X5650 boxes. You'll find thousands for sale. I bought a Lenovo earlier this year with that CPU and 24Gb of ram for $300. The W3680 Xeons are a bit faster but not nearly as numerous.
Re: (Score:2)
But... where? From Lenovo's website? Walters White Van Specials?
Re: (Score:2)
search ebay for HP z400, z600 or z800 workstation
Re: (Score:2)
ty
Re: (Score:2)
OP said x5690 with 24GB of ram for $200. Your example is a processor ~25% slower for $100 more. They're as low as $170 on eBay, but not with that much memory nor drive trays. So not exactly the same or really all that close for the price point stated.
Re: (Score:2)
GP is either delusional or gets free hand-me-downs from corporate IT.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm neither delusional nor a hand-me-down moocher.
I didn't spend a lot of time searching for an example because I don't need to waste hours to prove a point. Here is a 6 core in the ballpark of the stated price. If you spend some time, you can find listings that weren't well described, scratch and dent, short sale, and a ton of reasons why they sell for crazy cheap. http://www.ebay.com/itm/381478... [ebay.com]
That's just a quick example. I regularly locate much more capable machines at lower prices. If you belie
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
When I search for the CPU in your first comment, the price range on Ebay (used) is $250-350 for completed and sold listings. The same search for the CPU on the box you subsequently linked show it going for $80-100 used. These are two completely different ballparks. In fact, the price of an entire rig built around the cheaper one is less than the cost of more expensive CPU by itself.
Nah, I'm not delusional, I just do research before I open my
Re: (Score:2)
Ok, I'll bite. If I write you cheque, will you deliver by mail? Do you have 5 of those in stock?
Re: (Score:2)
I would run a XEON X5690 (6 core 3.46ghz) with 24GB of RAM and an SSD. You can find entire machines with Quadro video, audio, and a shitload of other components for about $200.00
Where would you find all that for about $200? A XEON X5690 costs $647.95 on newegg [newegg.com].
Re: (Score:2)
It's a sought after CPU for upgrades yet an old discarded workstation is cheaper or the same price. That's normal, it's often how it goes. Also over $600 is nuts : that must be a leftover unsold part that hangs around in inventory. If you're going to buy new hardware a 4790K is better and way cheaper, you will get CPU + motherboard + RAM for the price (or less) of the old CPU alone.
How about an AMD AM1 combo? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3)
This is one of the most hardware-informative posts I've read the whole year (and the year is almost over). What I've learned:
There is a motherboard I can buy that comes with as many as FOUR serial ports!
It's a very cheap motherboard, too!
It can be used as a console server.
Thank you!
Re: (Score:2)
Define requirements (Score:5, Insightful)
Naturally the answers provided here depend on the requirements (oddly enough, even geeks forget to state those)
And why reinvent the wheel? Because Pi and like boards exist is the reason this question has almost become irrelevant. You either need something that can be solved with a "cheap" pre-built board, or you're likely in need of $300 or more in hardware.
Requirements matter. Otherwise, you're just fucking around in the sandbox.
Re: (Score:2)
I just don't see the use case for a POS bargin basement full-size *LINUX* desktop. If you were someone playing 10-year old Windows games....maybe.
Re: (Score:2)
I just don't see the use case for a POS bargin basement full-size *LINUX* desktop.
Perhaps for uses that a Pi would fit plus the ability to run the occasional Windows-only application in Wine.
Re: (Score:2)
I'd say the Pi is like what DOS programming was back in the early 1990's. You were lucky to have 2 Megabytes of system RAM to play with and to have 320x200x256 VGA color screen. That did get bumped up to 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768 then 1280x1024x256. Games were still mostly 256 color up until the mid 1990's.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Running on low end flash and everything else on a single USB is a pain yes. Although if you just want to run bash or twm with xclock and xeyes it shouln't matter.
Re: (Score:2)
Boy, this is spot on!
I have a server that I use as a personal media server, and backups. I bought it at a yard sale for $10. Big box, lots of cheap, added several high capacity hard drives, performance is strictly irrelevant, and the several-generations-ago AMD Athlon 64 (remember those?) gamer board supports the 4GB of ECC DDR(1) RAM that is probably overkill for the need. I have no doubt that I could get at least another 5 years out of this ancient hardware for the need and be perfectly happy with it.
Not
Re: (Score:2)
Is browsing Slashdot a requirement? Even my main gaming machine struggles with /. nowadays... Each Slashdot tab in Chrome consumes over 2GB of RAM, so having a few discussions open brings my machine to its knees. This happening to anyone else? Or is there something I have to update in Chrome's embedded flash player? :P
Good quality memory (Score:3)
You can get lucky with generic, but I've had too many hard to track down issues over the years that were ultimately caused by buggy main memory chips. Whatever you buy, torture test them first - many tools available. /or don't support all file system functions.
Do the same with the disk - SSD is the way to go, but again do your research since some disk have poor firmware, and
Re:Good quality memory (Score:4, Informative)
I think I'd avoid doing a torture test of a disk drive of any type, but especially an SSD. Technically you are wearing out the SSD which has a finite number of write cycles before it will stop working on you. Problem is, you don't really know how many cycles an SSD has, so you are just wasting your drive's life. Plus, SSD's slow down over time as they are used and the drive controller attempts to level the number of writes in each sector.
For memory, sure, test away, get the whole system good and hot, and make sure you don't see errors. But for SSD's buy them on sustained read/write rates and reputation. Also buy them bigger than you need and only use about 70% of the capacity, just don't try to exhaustively test them.
I personally recommend the AMD A-Series (Score:2, Interesting)
If you aren't going for the top of the line in processing speed, the AMD A-Series will generally get you more processing power for the money than the Intel equivalents.
If you can do with even less graphics power, similar to that of the intel Skylake processors, you could go with the AMD E-Series, but you would see performance loss in graphically intense desktop applications like web browsing and multimedia. If this is tolerable, then go ahead and save the extra money.
As of motherboards, it depends on what
Dell T20 server for $139 (CyberMonday sale) (Score:4, Informative)
http://slickdeals.net/f/829851... [slickdeals.net]
Re: Dell T20 server for $139 (CyberMonday sale) (Score:4, Informative)
The quad-core Xeon version with a 1 TB drive at $279 strikes me as a better deal.
Oddly, this server includes a built-in sound card and can support 4x 3.5" drives AND 2x 2.5" drives, as well as an optical drive.
It uses slightly more expensive ECC RAM
Re: (Score:2)
Forget cheap (Score:2)
Those of you who have recently build, or are planning out a new budget Linux machine, what internals do you recommend?
How about people just build a computer that isn't eyegougingly poor to use. $200 for a machine? Is there even $100 left after putting a decent SSD and 16GB of RAM in a desktop machine?
Cheap computers are the reason people hate computers.
Re: (Score:2)
Neither of those overblown specs (SSD, 16G RAM) are required to yield a decent PC even if you are running Windows.
Re: (Score:2)
That depends entirely on what you think qualifies for "decent".
Computers are slow, everyone says so. Now take a moment to consider why. I've done my time waiting 15+ seconds to open Outlook. I'm through clicking on Firefox and waiting and waiting for the window to show up. I'm sick of running 5-6 programs at once and having a computer slow to a crawl. Great hardware is finally affordable. The first response should not be to use this and skimp out even more on nasty crap that makes computers just as slow as
You really want cheap? (Score:5, Interesting)
As an added bonus, with equipment that's a few years old you're likely to be able to run Linux out of the box because the early adopters already figured out how to get the hardware working properly.
The only computers I continue to purchase new are portable computers. I buy used stuff for the rest, the last dual-quad Xeon with 32GB RAM cost me a couple hundred bucks.
Re: (Score:2)
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Any idea where to find out about these types of sales? If it helps, I am in Maryland.
Re: (Score:2)
Alternately, call the big organizations in your area and ask the receptionist if they have a surplus property department, and ask to be transferred to them. Ask them if they do retail sales or auctions.
Re: (Score:2)
Some universities have a department just for selling surplus items. Call around.
Re: (Score:2)
Large corporations like oil companies used to do mass dump-offs of old monitors and cables whenever they got a new service contract. All the old IT equipment would be loaded into dumpsters to be taken straight to the rubbish tips. In the 1980's, that would be dumb terminals and RS-232 cables (replaced with PC's). Then they would dump their old PC's for new ones. Though these days, Dell and HP do the recycling with their service contracts.
Re: (Score:2)
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Any idea where to find out about these types of sales? If it helps, I am in Maryland.
There is one in Tumwater Washington, they often sell used computers by the the pallet load. don't know where any are on the east coast though.
Re: (Score:2)
Is there a central way to do this versus "the surplus depot" or FleaBay? The only way I've ever seen to get anything useful surplus is to know somebody inside. In my experience, the reasonable used hardware get re-purposed at least once internally before it gets turned loose as surplus, and when it does it's often so old as to be handicapped by old hardware standards which make performance fairly useless.
I bought a used Cisco 2960G two years ago for $200, which is still a low price even by recent Ebay sta
Re: (Score:2)
some school districts will do surplus sales, but sometimes they don't have the staffing for it so they send stuff to auction.
I built a Kabini-based PC, and it's "okay" (Score:2)
I picked up an Asus Kabini SoC motherboard and quad core CPU for about $100. I installed some RAM I had laying around and used similarly "laying around" hardware to finish it up. It's not a bad machine although the built-in graphics are a bit slow on Linux Mint and Ubuntu Desktop.
Just buy a laptop (Score:4, Interesting)
$60 CPU + $60 mobo + $40 case/PSU combo = $160. Add in RAM, HDD/SSD, I/O peripherals, and you're definitely gonna be over $200. Just buy a cheap laptop (chromebooks spring to mind), wipe it and put linux on it. Plus, it'll be a laptop. Maybe the performance won't be quite as good, but it'll definitely be serviceable.
Getting on Intel's latest architecture is a fairly meaningless goal.
Re:Just buy a laptop (Score:4, Interesting)
Just buy a cheap laptop (chromebooks spring to mind), wipe it and put linux on it.
I was under the impression that a Chromebook wiped and reinstalled with GNU/Linux would beg the user to reenable OS verification (which wipes the drive) every time it's turned on. If you're referring to other cheap laptops, there's a good chance of those not working well with GNU/Linux either [debian.org].
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
The "real computer" dig is getting annoying. Chromebooks have been on the market at least four years now. Linux users should understand what they are by now.
What I understand about them is that they're machines that make it difficult to use the way that I'd like, have a tiny amount of local storage, and are fairly crippled without a network connection. The fact is that a non-ChromeOS Linux provides a superset of the functionality available in ChromeOS. Chromebooks are what they are, and that's fine, but they aren't something that I want, and they aren't something that I'm going to take particularly seriously.
Quality cheap system (Score:4, Informative)
I've been building inexpensive PCs with Gigabyte H81 ITX motherboards, LGA1150 Pentium G CPUs, 4GB RAM, 120GB mSATA drives and Rosewill ITX chassis. I can build a whole machine for around $250. The chassis will still have room for an optical drive and a pair of hard disks, should you want them.
I specifically like the Gigabyte board for having both mSATA and mini-PCIe slots, plus the cutout to add antennas for 802.11/bluetooth. There's just a lot of flexibility for an ITX machine.
CHIP. (Score:2)
One of those cheap CHIP computers and a hdmi adapter.
don't forget mini-itx (Score:2)
A experience with a cheap notebook (Score:2)
I just buy a cheap notebook based on the Atom Z3735F 1.3GHz, 2G of DDR and 64G of eMMC. While the processor is 64 bits, the UEFI is for 32 bits only, so no easy way to install a 64 bit Linux distribution on it. First step was to go into the UEFI setup to disable the secure boot, then...
I tried Ubuntu 15.10 32 bits, and the installer don't even boot from a USB memory.
I tried Debian 8.2 32 bits, the installer booted from the USB memory up to the selection menu, but whenever I chose the text or graphic install
Re: (Score:2)
You'll want an image file that's compiled to work with the Atom, I am pretty sure. ISTR they call *some* variants "linuxium" and that should get you started in a search engine. You probably won't find the short-term builds, compiling everything is a long process, but the LTS is likely an option.
Re: (Score:2)
I tested kernel up to 4.2 with earlyprintk=efi and everything is ok up to the point where the console take over the earlyprintk. Seem to be something wrong at setting the screen, but nomodeset i915.modeset=0 don't help.
Do you need an Intel/AMD processor? (Score:2)
How about nVidia's Jetson TK1 [nvidia.com] board? It has a great 192-core Kepler GPU, a nice quad-core ARM CPU, on-board gigabit ethernet, all the ports you're likely to need and comes pre-installed with Ubuntu Linux.
Re: (Score:2)
Note that you can get the whole kit for $99 using discount code [makezine.com] from Make Magazine.
Depends on your Goals, But Free, or Negative (Score:2)
The design consideration you mentioned was "cheap." If you have any other design considerations, then disregard this answer.
I come across tons and tons of old, crappy, free, computers constantly. The ONE entity I do actual system administration work for pays me to sanitize, and dispose of, their old systems. These systems effectively have a negative cost for me, since I'm getting paid to dispose of them. Mostly, I like to write software, and not do systems administration, but I don't mind being the (paid) I
Re: (Score:2)
I found old Pentium II/III hardware with Intel 440BX chipset to be reliable, typically comes with an ATI Rage Pro 8MB - works 2D-only these days, but it's nice to see a board without a heatsink on the graphics chip. It will never fail.
Of course you get the occasional power supply or hard drive failure but that's true for all hardware.
The funny part is, forget about Damn Small Linux and other survival-mode distros, do a command-line install of a recent ubuntu or debian and apt-get lxde, xorg, alsa, firefox e
Oh! (Score:2)
Is Linux finally ready for the desktop?
J/K
missing information (Score:2)
Even cheaper.... (Score:2)
Used Core2Duo machine for $50.00 off of craigslist with monitor.
Sorry, but if you want a cheap linux machine, go used first.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
This may actually be a good thought. By one of the heavily discounted PCs (black friday/cyber monday) and just reinstall....maybe adding in some extra RAM.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
I have Linux Mint 17 running on a MUCH lower spec 6 year old Acer Netbook, 2GB of RAM. It's hardly a screamer, but I can get work done, stream video, etc. So I can't understand why your system doesn't do better.
Re:Ubuntu performed poorly (Score:4, Insightful)
I even installed Win10 build 1511 on a partition, and I am impressed it is this quite fast.
You can find this netbook for less than $100.
nVidia ION (Score:2)
Yep, I still have an old EeePC901 running Linux Mint from an SD card. It's connected to my kids' Casio digital piano, so it can record and playback using Rosegarden. It's a bit too sluggish for web browsing or other music software such as LMMS, but most else is fine.
My current server system is still a shoebox nVidia ION box with 4GB RAM and an SSD, which makes it snappy enough for web browsing with Chromium in addition to its server duties. I bought it from Craigslist a while ago to replace my tower, an
Re: (Score:2)
Chrome box - has Linux drivers ... (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
TempleOS sucks, get a Haiku OS desktop instead.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Raspberry Pi ZERO (Score:2)
The Pi Zero has Zero network connectivity. No ethernet, no WiFi. Single USB port. By the time you take care of that, you exceed the cost of the Pi2. Just get a Pi2 and avoid the Zero.
sudo apt-get install wine (Score:2)
When your work is 90 percent in apps that are ported to X11/Linux and 10 percent in apps that need Wine, you need an x86. The same is true if some of the Linux apps are proprietary and not compiled for ARM.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
A few corrections:
- Java does run on the Pi: http://www.oracle.com/technetw... [oracle.com]
- StarOffice, in the form of LibreOffice does too: http://store.raspberrypi.com/p... [raspberrypi.com]
You aren't going to anything amazing of the Pi, but if your expectations are low (in terms of performance) and your budget even smaller, then it will do the job.
Lintel apps not on ARM (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
How many mainstream Linux apps are proprietary and not compiled for ARM?
Just from the top of my head:
But how many remain in wide use? I don't know what decade you're posting from, but the majority of apps you listed were superseded years ago.
Netscape Navigator and Netscape Communicator
Discontinued in favor of SeaMonkey.
StarOffice
Discontinued in favor of LibreOffice.
Sun/Oracle Java
I thought most GNU/Linux users were on IcedTea now instead of using Oracle binaries.
Re: Raspberry Pi 2 (Score:3)
Heck, why not the Raspberry Pi Zero? It's even cheaper ($5!) and doesn't have all those GPIO pins wasting all that board space... Sadly, no built-in Ethernet, but Options abound in the USB Ethernet adapter space...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Besides no connectivity, and you need more adapters and dongles than with a "normal" Pi, the Pi 2 is a good bit faster than the Pi Zero. It (the Pi 2) is absolutely fast enough for some moderate desktop needs. It could very likely even replace most office computers, assuming any custom apps could be ported to Linux.
Re: (Score:2)
I just built a couple of G3258 machines. It is a good chip, but I probably would have used the G4400 instead if I had noticed it before doing my builds to allow an easier better upgrade to the newer i3/i5/i7s.
I have year-old clearance sale 1GB nvidia 650s that I got cheap that were in the replaced machines.
If you need graphics, buy any nvidia card you can and you'll be better off.
IMarv
The PC is for job search (Score:2)
1. Get a job
Then what PC should one use to search for a job? And what PC should one use for studies and entertainment before becoming old enough to work as an employee or old enough to sign contracts?
Re: (Score:2)
Plus not everyone is interested in using their PC as an expression of how much money they have to waste (or rather don't). Some people just view the PC as a tool to get shit done. As long as it gets shit done, it doesn't matter how fancy it is or whether or not it can impress some random loser you've never met and never will.
Re: (Score:2)
This chip (Intel G4400) is interesting for one reason. It has VT-D enabled. This makes it the cheapest Intel chip selling that has that feature. Its still not as cheap as buying an AMD A4 which also has it but you're no longer looking at $200 pay to play on the Intel side if that is what you're after.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Linux? On an Arduino?
Do that and I will se your face on the Turing Award website.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Or maybe just a computer on a stick
Re: (Score:2)
PC (x86) on a stick are way crippled : insufficient cooling (there is a really tiny fan! and what do you do when it's failing), slow and limited storage, and also weird UEFI / hard to install something because it's x86 tablet hardware.
So it's a waste unles that's really what you want. Or use some computer sticks as dumb terminals.
Re: (Score:3)
what parent said - use case is important. but be honest with yourself. a year ago, i spent a LOT of money on a dream desktop (think 64GB ram + 2x 8Gb FC + 2x 4port NICs + many fancy features). yet now i spend 95% of my computing time on a raspberry pi because all i really NEED are 4 terminal windows (music + IRC + xmpp client for nagios alerts + ssh to work on a server) and a web browser.
why don't i do it on my fancy desktop? because i don't want to feel like i'm murdering the planet for no reason. i have n
Re: (Score:2)