Ask Slashdot: Where Can You Get a Good 3-Button Mouse Today? 431
guises writes Ever since mouse wheels were introduced the middle mouse button has been sidelined to an inadequate click-wheel function, or in some cases ditched altogether. This has never sat well with me, a proper middle button is invaluable for pasting, games, and navigation. More than that, my hand categorically rejects two button mice — the dangling ring finger causes me genuine physical discomfort. I have begged Logitech on multiple occasions to make just one, among their many screwy specialty mice, to replace the Mouseman which I loved so dearly. I thought for a moment that I had been answered with the g600, only to find that they had put the right mouse button in the middle.
So my question to Slashdot is: where does a person turn for a three button mouse these days? I've only found two, both ergonomic and priced accordingly. I use the Contour and like the shape and wheel position, but would love to find something wireless and with a higher DPI sensor.
So my question to Slashdot is: where does a person turn for a three button mouse these days? I've only found two, both ergonomic and priced accordingly. I use the Contour and like the shape and wheel position, but would love to find something wireless and with a higher DPI sensor.
Simple solution (Score:5, Funny)
Just glue three Apple Mice together.
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Congratulations, you've managed to make a reference even more obsolete than 'LOL BSOD'.
Re: Simple solution (Score:3, Funny)
Damn it, I was going for more obsolete than EISA. Curse you Linus Torvalds!
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IT IS!
Just use "HIMEM" to but some stuff in the 384k upper area :P
Re:Simple solution (Score:4, Interesting)
where does a person turn for a three button mouse these days?
The one on my desk you may have only when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
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I don't get this question at all. What's the big deal? Are there any valuable functions mapped to a middle button anyway, that make it so important? What's wrong with a click wheel? Who puts three fingers on the surface of a mouse? the whole thing is weird.
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Yes. For people who use real computers, middle button = "paste selected text".
People who use real computers but have not yet found the one true pointing device, the 4-button Logitech Marble Mouse Trackball.
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why get excited for having a button for ctrl-v? do you also have a button for ctrl-c and ctrl-x? you make no sense.
Re:We don't all work in Windows + efficiency (Score:4, Insightful)
Select new URL, select old URL, paste, oh crap, delete old URL, got *back* and select new URL, paste.
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But there are a number of times where explicit copy/paste is much nicer.
I don't know what DE you're using, but in KDE, both modes work, and they go into different buffers. So if you feel the need to do the explicit copy/paste with Ctrl-C/V, it works fine, and you can even highlight something else afterwards, then paste the two separately with middle-click and Ctrl-V.
No, having one buffer is not better in any way. It's stupid in fact. Better is KDE's Klipper, which keeps a history for this buffer and lets
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A real computer is a computer on which the left button drag-select also copies the selected text, so you can immediately paste it by middle clicking somewhere.
Such a machine is usually running X windows.
Re:Simple solution (Score:4, Interesting)
I presume "real computer" was snark for "not Microsoft Windows".
Selections and the clipboard both have their uses.
Selections are faster and leaner--you can just highlight some text, then center-click wherever to copy it there. It's faster than having to highlight, then explicitly copy with Ctrl-C or whatever, then click somewhere, then paste with Ctrl-V or whatever. It's also guaranteed to give you plain text, rather than bringing along formatting and images and stuff.
The clipboard is more featureful, it's useful when you want to bring along formatting or images or other non-text stuff. It also allows you to highlight another area and paste over it, as you mention. It's also more persistent, so if you are working on code or something and have a string you're going to paste repeatedly, you might put that on the clipboard with Ctrl-C and have it until you explicitly cut something else; you can still do selection copy/paste for quick little stuff in the interim, but still have your main item saved on the clipboard so you don't have to go re-copy it.
Having both is useful. Selections are a lot faster, I use them the majority of the time but still use the clipboard sometimes.
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on a lot of the mouses the click wheel makes for a crappy third button.
Some of the worst are when they thought they'd be clever and made the click wheel TILTABLE and CLICKABLE.
Ends up doing neither well.
What I've found is that the cheap mouses the click wheel works ok. The MS and Logitech ones, of course.
Got me the middle button gets used most for opening a link in a new tab, and also has it's uses in CAD apps.
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I learned that during a lecture in college circa 1989. But this is the best I could find.. http://alt-usage-english.org/e... [alt-usage-english.org]
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or you can just buy it from oracle. they have 2 types of kit. one has a wheelmouse, the other has a 3 button mouse:
https://shop.oracle.com/pls/os... [oracle.com]
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Just glue three Apple Mice together.
1995 called and said you were living in the past.
But let's talk about Windows 1.0 now.
Pay up and quit whining (Score:5, Interesting)
$69 for a mouse, especially a specialty one like you're wanting, is not that much. The only alternative is going to be buying a good used one from eBay.
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Re:Pay up and quit whining (Score:4, Informative)
Chances are you can re-map that logitech g600's buttons to do whatever you want. You can probably do it driverless as well, which means the changes survive across plugging the mouse into a different PC. Pick one up on Amazon and if it doesn't work the way you want, they let you return it.
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You might be able to: my Logitech Mx518 (at least with the software I have installed) doesn't seem to allow rebinding the two primary buttons, though, so it's not a sure thing. The OP can do what you suggest, or just ask around (on Reddit, user reviews, even send a message to Logitech).
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I have a G600. It is trivial to remap the buttons to perform like you want.
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As for wireless - this is another thing that I think has been inaccurately represented. I've had some good wireless mice / joysticks / controllers which have given me no problems at all in this respect. Granted, these have all been infrared, not bluetooth, and I understand that bluet
Performance Mouse MX (Score:5, Insightful)
Can't recommend enough the Performance Mouse MX [amazon.com] enough.
While it does have the middle button integrated into the scroll wheel, once used to it you will find it completely intuitive. I middle click hundreds of times a day and only found it difficult during the first two weeks of owning the mouse. 5 years later I still prefer the Performance MX over anything else.
To middle click I typically shift my index finger over a centimeter or two. My hands are slightly above average size and ergonomically the PerfMX is perfect for me.
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love the discontinued Revolution MX more. That extra side wheel was the killer.
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Also the Revolution didn't have a mi
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M-BA47 user here.
Now get off my lawn.
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The buttons must be a disgusting brownish/yellow by now.
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
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but you still have to use ctrl c and ctrl x. how does it help to have a dedicated ctrl v button? seems like a strange hill to die on to insist on a 3 button mouse. don't you think?
Re:Performance Mouse MX (Score:4, Informative)
but you still have to use ctrl c and ctrl x. how does it help to have a dedicated ctrl v button? seems like a strange hill to die on to insist on a 3 button mouse. don't you think?
The middle button acts like CTRL-V. Selecting the text automatically places it in its own paste buffer, so you can CTRL-C some other text and have an entirely different selection and two paste options--I've actually done that before. After using Linux 20 plus years, I can tell you it's weird not to have that functionality when I happen to be at windows machine.
You are correct about it not replacing CTRL-X.
Not programmable? (Score:2)
The g600 certainly looks programmable - is there no option to reassign the primary buttons? Hell, it seems like even the buttons on my normal Logitech office mouse can be reassigned, certainly the click-wheel can be. (on Linux at the moment, so I can't double check)
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Re:Not programmable? (Score:5, Informative)
I have a G600. I just checked, and you can reprogram the primary buttons to anything you like.
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Re:Not programmable? (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, I can confirm that.
I have used the G600 for a long time now and the way it works is that you need a computer with the logitech software installed, reprogram all the buttons any way you want (you can move the right click button to the side shift-function button and then program the middle button however you want) then save the profile into the mouse memory which will let it remember those settings on any other computer without the drivers installed (with the exception of some game-specific macros).
Most of the recent logitech mice are capable of this.
What, you can't remap mouse buttons on the G600? (Score:2)
That sounds like something pretty basic that either Logitech or Microsoft would provide.
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You can - I've done that exact thing.
It doesn't work without driver software, though, so you might have a problem with any OS that isn't Windows...
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Because the mouse in it's default hardware profile (without the driver) mostly plays a USB keyboard and sends keystrokes for the other buttons; and without the driver's software profile support you can't even freely map the middle mouse button to where the right mouse button is by default...
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You save to the on-board memory it's a basic function, and everything works the same in linux etc. http://support.logitech.com/en... [logitech.com] if ya need instructions. Works fine for me when I multi boot.
What's wrong with a scroll wheel? (Score:3)
Not sure why a scroll wheel will not work for you, but check out the Logitech Couch Mouse M515. The wheel is not a middle, the button below the wheel is the third mouse button.
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"why a scroll wheel will not work for you"
With a clickable scroll wheel it takes effort to avoid scrolling when trying to click
"check out the Logitech Couch Mouse M515"
'This product is no longer available. Continue shopping at Logitech.' http://reviews.logitech.com/70... [logitech.com]
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With a clickable scroll wheel it takes effort to avoid scrolling when trying to click
Never had such a problem. Maybe you have no fine motor skills?
Re: What's wrong with a scroll wheel? (Score:5, Insightful)
User 1: "I have problem X"
Slashdot user: "No, you don't."
See also: Linux users.
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It's not just difficult or takes effort; it's IMPOSSIBLE. And I think your a liar if you say you can.
Weird. A decent mouse has detents so that there's a meaningful rotational force that has to be applied to cause scrolling. While accidental scrolling can happen, it's the exception, not the norm.
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impossible? I and tons of people I work with do it dozens and dozens of times daily. Since when did it become a difficult skill?
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Click mode or not, a scroll wheel is NOT A BUTTON. It is a shitty make-do.
Take apart a scroll mouse. Turns out that it uses literally the same microswitch that the other buttons do. Ergo, it IS A BUTTON.
Re: What's wrong with a scroll wheel? (Score:4, Interesting)
Usability of the scroll wheel as a center button varies greatly from mouse to mouse. With some mice it is impossible to use without scrolling and with others it is ok. My current mouse, the M525, is poor - but tolerable once you get used to it. My previous mouse, some generic Dell mouse, was much better.
One should go to a computer shop and try them out. Do not assume they are all horrible just because some are.
Scroll-wheel buttons mostly suck. (Score:2)
I've been disappointed with most of the click-wheel mice I've used. I guess it's hard to balance the stiffness of the wheel and the button - either the button is too easy to click by mistake when scrolling, or too stiff so it's hard to click without moving the scroll wheel. I've had problems with brands like Microsoft and Logitech.
My favourite mouse currently is a Razer Taipan. I got it for gaming, but I love it for general desktop use. It's got the best button feel of any mouse I've used, including the scr
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If there was a Razer Taipan that wasn't wired, I might attach some credibility to your recommendation. Wired mice SUCK. It will be a cold day in hell that I ever again lower myself to dragging that goddam weight around on the end of a mouse.
just swap the buttons (Score:5, Informative)
xmodmap -e "pointer = 1 3 2"
Re:just swap the buttons (Score:4, Insightful)
Solving a middle click problem by creating a right click problem isn't much of a solution.
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You're right, that command doesn't work on OS/2.
Middle wheel/button seems to work ok, no? (Score:5, Interesting)
Can you share details on what the problems are with the clickable middle wheel? You mentioned it's "inadequate", but what makes it so? Just wondering because I use the middle-button/wheel all the time and it seems to work as well as the other buttons - no discomfort, no extra thought, etc.
Re:Middle wheel/button seems to work ok, no? (Score:4, Interesting)
Not trying to flamebait, but this looks more like a "me, oldtimer, can't adapt" thing.
Indeed, some mice have a harder to press mid-button/scroll wheel, but there are some which are easier to press. I have a G700S and the middle click requires greater finger pressure than I'd like, however I bought it because it features both step-by step scrolling and continuous, which is the feature I was looking for. At any rate, I remapped middle click to a side button too and retrained my muscle memory.
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Re:Middle wheel/button seems to work ok, no? (Score:5, Informative)
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Less ergonomic: the middle "button" isn't shaped right and it can be hard to position a finger to be in the correct position.
Less exact: the button mechanism works different than the other buttons, partially because it tend to use a different kind of micro switch (often actually a collapsing dome switch for the middle button) and partially because of the mechanical design required for the scroll wheel.
Less reliable: a middle-click can be translated to scrolling or tilting unless pressed exactly right.
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I use the middle mouse button mostly to open new tabs/windows in web browsing where invoking the scroll wheel inadvertently causes the page to scroll away from where I'm clicking. That is very annoying.
Most mice I have used use the same type of microswitch for the "middle button" as for the left and right buttons, but in most mice the buttons are levers with a rod on the microswitch.
These levers are usually the same on the left and right buttons, but very different on the middle press so the sensation is ve
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Funny you should mention Blender, as that's exactly the app I had in mind when I said I used the middle button/wheel all the time without any problems. :)
FWIW I use some Logitech mouse and this discussion made me notice that the wheel has a ton of subtle, discrete "stops" or positions rather than being a completely fluid or smooth spin. That might be why the middle button doesn't tend to register accidental scroll events.
Logitech Anywhere Mouse MX (Score:2)
The Logitech Anywhere Mouse MX [logitech.com] is a wireless mouse, so may not suit. It does nonetheless have a middle button distinct from the scroll wheel, and is not a weird 'ergonomic' shape.
I use it with the laptop, but at work I'm on the sadly long-discontinued Logitech Marble Mouse, with middle-button emulation. (I see that there is now the Trackman Marble [logitech.com], so perhaps I will still have somewhere to go if my venerable trackball ever dies!)
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I've got a big, heavy, Gigabyte Aivia Krypton Ghost mouse.You can modify the internal weighting to your liking. It's got the scroll wheel but it's big and grippy. You could also map away the scroll entirely, or map a side button for that dangling ring finger. One caveat is their software too. If you're on OS X, you need to set the mouse up the first time in Windows. It's an annoyance but it's a really good mouse. Maybe y
hp 3 button mouse (Score:5, Informative)
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/products/oas/product-detail.html?oid=403895 [hp.com]
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Whoo hoo!
You know, pretty much the only reason why HP makes these (or orders them from actual manufacturers and brands them) is because there is obscene demand for them for CAD/CAM workstations. Many CAM suites use combinations of button clicks to maneuver in the 3D design space, including the use of the middle button.
Dassault Systemes CATIA and Siemens Unigraphics come instantly to mind.
HP has an industrial workstation lineup that they offer to small and midsize companies that need fairly high end enginee
Just hope middle click paste still works in future (Score:2)
The middle mouse button is certainly useful, but I find the scroll wheel being a button is sufficient for me. I don't like Apple's multitouch mouse at all. Real buttons for me, thanks.
But I guess paradigms are changing. In Linux, as we move forward to Wayland, policies regarding the middle click are pushed into the toolkits. I hope they see fit to allow the enabling of select and middle-click paste. I can understand that not all users want it (some actually like the middle-click to start a page scroll)
Re:Just hope middle click paste still works in fut (Score:5, Insightful)
The erosion of middle-button paste functionality is a continual frustration.
There are cultural differences between the Windows and Macintosh personal computing worlds, and that of X11 on Unix workstations. While always allowing customisability, we should hold on to the good ideas of the past, rather than dismiss them as being unfamiliar to the personal computer user.
What irks me especially is that the same forces that are driving us towards a Windows-like experience on the Linux desktop are also removing the ability to easily customise our environment, if only to retain the functionality that is being deprecated or dismissed. (I'm looking at you, GNOME.)
Might be difficult (Score:2)
Mice are so mass-market these days that it is hard to find one that actually performs properly. I've gone through a lot of mice over the years, always preferring the hardwired mice over the wireless (dead battery == unhappy), but in the last round I simply couldn't find a wired mouse that worked well. Everything being sold was wireless.
Of late, many of the mice I've tried have simply been too big and bulky, stretching my fingers and generally uncomfortable.
I wound up going with a Microsoft Sculpt 1569 wir
Evoluent definitely (Score:2)
Make your own (Score:2)
Get a used mouseman from ebay ($10 and free shipping [ebay.com]), throw away the top cover, and 3-d print your own.
Don't own a 3-d printer? Probably one of your friends does, or the local university, or the local hackerspace, or as a last resort you can use shapeways [shapeways.com].
Grab some modeling clay in your hand, make a 3-d scan of the resulting "handle", add fasteners for the buttons and ball (or IR chip), then 3-d print a custom-grip top cover. You can get IR mouse elements and ball elements from old mice, usually for free o
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3D-printing is overkill.
When I buy a new mouse, I remove the mousewheel. Then I build a middle mouse button that fits in its place. I cut pieces of styrene and put them together with plastic cement ("model glue").
Logitech M555b (Score:2)
Bluetooth, comfortable mouse with a wheel, but a split 3rd button. Instead of a 3rd button integrated with the will, it's a smaller button closer to the palm.
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You must use additional software, that button does not natively produce button2 events.
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Actually it does produce the button2 events natively. I had to use no additional software to use it. It's my everyday mouse.
Reprogram the G600 (Score:5, Informative)
A lot of people are suggesting that the G600 might be reprogrammable, but they all note that they don't have the mouse, so they don't know for sure.
I do.
I just checked it, and you can reprogram the primary mouse buttons to anything you want. You can also set that as the mouse's built-in configuration, so you don't need to use the drivers and the settings will be persistent across computers. Have fun.
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Gaming Mice (Score:2)
The six button gaming mice encourage you to retrain your hand position. Mouse wheels are big and made to be clicked easily without disturbing the scroll wheel. You should just learn to adapt to this new stuff imo.
That's easy! (Score:2)
They have an excellent selection of 3-button mice at Circuit City. What, don't you have a time machine?
HP DY651A (Score:2, Informative)
USB 3-button optical mouse for $12. Problem solved.
logitech mx dark field (Score:2)
I bought a logitech mx dark field mouse because i've got a glass-topped desk.
But it turns out it's got a little button in the middle behind the wheel; that's the third button.
Logitech Anywhere MX (Score:2)
The Logitech Anywhere MX has a physical middle-click button underneath the scroll wheel ("clicking" the wheel itself just toggles a friction gear on the scroll wheel). If it weren't for your additional complaint about needing a massive mouse (this thing is tiny), it would be perfect for you.
Interestingly, while it really can run perfectly on surfaces as weird as glass, I have found one surface it does not work on: my old mousepad.
Rant mode (Score:2)
Solution (Score:2)
Why don't you design one and get your project funded on kickstarter? You would get the exact mouse you want, plus money.
The G600? (Score:2)
I am a HUGE believer in the G600. You see all those 12 buttons on the side? You see the two buttons at the top? You can configure them however you want, and you'll never need to do the clicky-wheel.
So, what's the problem? I really don't see it. Oh, there's a button on the far right that your pinky or ring finger can get to.
You DO realize you can map the G600 buttons... right?
Get a truly programmable one (Score:2)
Make sure the configuration is stored in the mouse itself. Most mice do it in the driver and that does not work with other OSes. For example, the Sharkoon Fireglider and Darkglider mice store config in the mouse and hence work the same under Windows, Linux, etc. I have put the middle button on the thumb button permanently this way.
Fully remappable (Score:2)
I guess I didn't emphasize this.
1)- Map your left button (button 1) to left button.
2)- Map the button to the right of that (button 2) to middle button [normally this is right button]
3)- Map the far right button (the "g-shift" button normally, but it can do ANYTHING AT ALL including typing letters) to right button.
Problem solved. With nothing but the mouse and the software that comes with it. Which you can run yourself, go to a friends house and run it there, get a VM and run it there, run it on a lapto
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It has never occurred to me that people use three fingers on a mouse. I'm using a Logitech M705 at the moment. If I put three fingers on this thing they just don't fit. The finger in the middle covers the scroll wheel and at least 1/3 of each of the other two buttons.
The side fingers naturally land on the side of the mouse on the seam between the mouse body and the buttons.
When holding this mouse normally with two fingers the scroll wheel disappears in my hand.
I haven't found anybody we makes mice big en
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Logitech M-BA47. I cannot hold that mouse any other way than with my thumb on the left side, three fingers on top and pinky holding the right side. My three main fingers land on the left button, scroll/click wheel, right button. And I only need slide my thumb down about 5mm to reach the left-side fourth button.
Today's mice are so small that I think they only test them with children.
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I've been using a Kensington Expert Mouse trackball for years and left-click with my thumb, right-click with my pinky, and manipulate the large track ball with the other three fingers. I got it after my index finger started to develop signs of arthritis after having used a regular mouse for so many years. (Anyone remember the Logitech 3-button bus mouse and the Point text editor? (Yeah that long.) I want to find another one of those trackballs.
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I use a Microsoft Wireless Mouse 5000. Completely symetrical, so it works left exactly the same a right. I mouse left, but I got used to the "left click" on the left. It works fine with the buttons remapped (ie left click on right button) I just don't use it that way. It's nothing special otherwise, and I'm sure gamerz will laugh at it, but it works ok for me.
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Re:Thrift store (Score:5, Informative)
Or you can do that all in the settings (at least on Linux and OS X)
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More than that, my hand categorically rejects two button mice — the dangling ring finger causes me genuine physical discomfort.
I have a feeling you also missed this sentence. He is bemoaning the loss of the middle button as much for the form factor as for the additional features. The old three-button mice were designed to allow index-middle-ring fingers to rest on the mouse with the thumb and pinky around the edges. Everyone has a favorite mouse shape - ivory soap bar, ergonomic hockey puck, small and narrow, palm vertical, etc - his just happens to be the three-button mouse.
~~
Re:Thrift store (Score:5, Insightful)
Or instead of calling the person an idiot, try reading the summary?
"...the middle mouse button has been sidelined to an inadequate click-wheel function..."
But he doesn't explain why it is "inadequate". A middle button that functions as both a button and a scroll wheel is a clear improvement. The scroll wheel does not detract from the button click functionality, and in fact, improves it, since the middle button has a distinctly different tactile feel, so you don't fat-finger it by accident. The old three-button-no-scroll-wheel mouse died for a reason. It was inferior in every way.
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Hello,
A couple of "large" trackball vendors:
BigTrack - http://www.bigtrack.co.uk/ [bigtrack.co.uk]
Kensington - http://www.kensington.com/us/u... [kensington.com]
You can also try visiting www.trackballworld.com and looking around at the various offerings there. I've never bought from them, so no specific feedback to give (or, in other words, caveat emptor).
Regards,
Aryeh Goretsky