Would You Rent Out Your Unused Drive Space? 331
Press2ToContinue writes "There is a new idea out there, proposed by Shawn Wilkinson, Tome Boshevski & Josh Brandof, that if you have unused disk space on your HD that you should rent it out. It is a great idea and the concept may have a whole range of implementations. The 3 guys describe their endeavor as: "Storj is a peer-to-peer cloud storage network implementing end-to-end encryption would allow users to transfer and share data without reliance on a third party data provider. The removal of central controls would eliminate most traditional data failures and outages, as well as significantly increasing security, privacy, and data control. A peer-to-peer network and basic encryption serve as a solution for most problems, but we must offer proper incentivisation for users to properly participate in this network."
Nope (Score:5, Insightful)
Two biggest reasons:
1) Even encrypted, I'd still be pretty wary of having arbitrary files stores on my machines. Even if legally in the clear, just dealing with an LEA when someone uses your machine as a child porn host is going to be unpleasant.
2) Bandwidth is far more valuable to me than storage space. I've got tonnes of storage space, it's cheap. Bandwidth far less so.
Re:Nope (Score:4, Insightful)
Besides, who has free storage space!?
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That's why you don't use RAID. Instead, use something more flexible. I've been running Greyhole [greyhole.net] for a while now. Adding storage doesn't require shifting files around (unless you want to rebalance storage), you can use drives of different sizes, and you can control the level of redundancy you use (more for important files, less for stuff that's easily replaced). You can yank a disk out of a Greyhole installation and
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Besides, who has free storage space!?
I've been a pretty big pack rat, in total I think I have 18TB of HDDs. But the last time I was considering expand or delete I started going through my collection and realized you know all these series and movies I'd keep because I might see them again? Guess what, I hardly ever do. First of all there's always something new, secondly if I pull up something old I often remember what's going to get happen and get too bored to actually wait for it to happen. And it's not like this stuff disappears off the Inter
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Ya... my last drive purchase took me 6 days to fill. It was a 3TB drive.
devporn (Score:4, Funny)
Ya... my last drive purchase took me 6 days to fill. It was a 3TB drive.
Sounds like you used this helpful command:
cat /dev/porn > /dev/hdd1
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LOL - nice one.
What can I say, between my STEAMy addiction, my "linux ISO" habit, and my xmas archive there's just not enough storage let alone backup storage.
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Do you know that it is very easy to get any Linux ISO from any version/distro from this "Internet" thingy? Why are you hoarding Linux ISOs? Are you afraid the world might end and you'll need to save it with an old Linux ISO?
I can't tell if you think I'm actually archiving Linux distros or not. Lately I've been finding it hard to find certain "distros" and when I do they're HC with NL/swede/asian scripts. Especially older/less popular ones. The latest greatest stuff is super easy to find that's for sure, but even that is starting to thin... I mean how is Cordelia Chase's latest "linux ISO" not everywhere by now.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Nope (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, but they need to make sure that they incentivize it correctly. Having purely a "per gigabyte" cost isn't reasonable. That's only accounting for the capital costs of buying the drives. They also impose wear costs per write and bandwidth costs per seek, and probably come costs for their usage of processing time and ram and the like.
Then there come issues of what sort of uptime / reliability / access times they want to guarantee? Surely they're going to have to distribute a given set of data out in a distributed fashion where any X percent of systems can be down or too slow at a given time and they still get their data back in a reasonable time. But how do you decide how much the system owner gets compensated under different downtime ratios / length of downtime / average access times / peak access times / etc? It'll be a tricky balancing act. Also access times vary from region to region, so certain regions could be more valuable for certain users than others, and some more valuable in general than others. Some people may not want to have their data in certain areas at all. And the system will have to decide when it decides a user to be too unreliable to store a fraction of a given dataset on and to store it on a different system instead. Then there's other things people may want to take into account, such as how green the power is
Technically possible, and a good goal, but quite a complicated challenge to do well.
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How about a new metric. Per gigabyte date cost of analysing data and 'DELETING' what you don't need. Are companies becoming stupid data hoarders, keeping useless data that has no value and simply ramps up data handling costs. So rather than spending more and more money to hoard more and more data, how about regular data reviews and start deleting what you don't need or has less value than the cost of handling it.
So the new big thing, data review cycles. Where useless data is eradicated for ever because e
Re:Nope (Score:5, Insightful)
It's cheaper to keep data than to evaluate it. Someone asked about sorting out a large collection of photos they had taken for work (professional photographer) due to the amount of storage space they were taking up on Slashdot a while back. Someone else then pointed out that even if they paid some intern minimum wage to do the evaluation it would be more expensive than just buying more drive space and a NAS.
For companies where people who are well paid generate data, like say engineers or researchers, they would need someone who understands those things to do the evaluation. The cost of deleting something they need years later could be high. I sometimes look at 15 year old files for work. The thing is, 15 year old files are all tiny and can be stored easily. By the time file are old enough to consider deleting them it just isn't worth doing.
Re:Nope (Score:5, Insightful)
Storj is based on blockchain technology and peer-to-peer protocols to provide the most secure, private, and encrypted cloud storage.
That's what they all say. Funny how it never works out that way.
Re:Nope (Score:5, Informative)
And the worst problem of remote storage is that you need an internet service provider at both ends to access it. Maybe it's the second worst. Liability issues involving content would be the worst.
Re:Nope (Score:4, Insightful)
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People with bandwidth caps are going to hate this.
I don't think they will hate it. I think they will just not sign up.
But I think the worst is that it now incentivizes people to install a trojan on your system and rent out your storage space without you knowing
Why is that bad? It drives down the cost or storage for the rest of us, and incentivizes people to secure their systems. It is certainly better than them using compromised systems as spambots.
Re:Nope (Score:5, Insightful)
Two biggest reasons:
1) Even encrypted, I'd still be pretty wary of having arbitrary files stores on my machines. Even if legally in the clear, just dealing with an LEA when someone uses your machine as a child porn host is going to be unpleasant.
From TFA they talk about "shards" being stored on a computer, so that no one computer holds a complete file. But yeah, if LEA comes a knocking then I bet you will still be in deep do-do.
As for bandwidth, what I don't get is how do you get your files back if you can't guarantee the people you rented disk space from actually have their machines turned on?
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Are storage spaces (such as Megaupload [wikipedia.org]) responsible for their users files?
The problem is, that hasn't been decided as of yet. It would make sense to any normal person that they wouldn't be. But law enforcement isn't sure how to deal with such services so they are doing their best to kill the industry with raids, but then drop the cases before they hit court so no ruling can hurt their efforts.
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The problem is, that hasn't been decided as of yet. It would make sense to any normal person that they wouldn't be. But law enforcement isn't sure how to deal with such services so they are doing their best to kill the industry with raids, but then drop the cases before they hit court so no ruling can hurt their efforts.
Even if it turns out that you are not legally responsible for the content, that's not going to keep LE from confiscating/impounding your computer systems for an undetermined amount of time.
I'm Charlie (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I'm Charlie (Score:5, Interesting)
I dunno and YMMV.
Draw what you want. I have no problems with cartoons, or even very realistic drawn/painted/whatever imagined images depicting all kinds of crazy shit. In my country, even written stories depicting or discussing underage sex is considered illegal by the letter of the law. Which I happen to agree, is madness. Sexuality doesn't just lie dormant and 'switch on' when you hit 18 or 21 or whatever the law says is cool in your neck of the woods. And discussing it in art form is probably healthy. Much of it wont float my particular boat but I don't think that should make 'art work' illegal.
BUT. For a while I worked in a role where I was exposed to kiddie porn.... And, well, I wouldn't think of it as art. To my mind it was just evidence (photo and/or video) of folks actually raping kids. It really wasn't cool. And if it puts a dint in the practice, I don't think I'd characterize aggressively pursuing leads, as madness.
I know you can't put the genie back in the bottle, but if you haven't seen it, you might have a skewed or misinformed view of what kiddie porn actually is. You might think its pictures of kids and adults having sex. But its not.
If you're really not sure, imagine someone you really dislike, from a social group you're not into, quintessentially the last person on earth you'd consider in being with in a sexual context. Imagine that person, with the help of a several buddies, kidnapping you and doing what ever they wanted to you, while you struggle futilely, scream in pain, and as your strength ebbs, plead, weeping and begging them to stop. Only they don't stop until they're all spent. And the whole time, you're under studio lights and there are people with cameras in your face and circling you taking pictures and videos of it to share your pain and humiliation with the world at large. And now imagine its happening to your 8 years old self.
No. Simply turning a blind eye... to my mind that would be madness.
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And if it puts a dint in the practice
That's kind of the problem I have. I would imagine some fucked-in-the-head paedophile would be better served looking at children online than actually going out and touching them in real life. I'm genuinely interested in the following:
- Does a ban on viewing content decrease the creation of the content?
- Does viewing the content make you more of a paedophile? I imagine it would be hard to do a proper behavioural trial for this stuff.
If so then I'm all for it. If not then I'm afraid that we as a society are l
You missed the madness (Score:3)
it was just evidence (photo and/or video) of folks actually raping kids. [...] And if it puts a dint in the practice, I don't think I'd characterize aggressively pursuing leads, as madness.
What you have just described isn't madness at all. I would argue that it makes perfect sense for law enforcement to treat child pornography as evidence of serious criminal activity (child rape) and to pursue aggressively the perpetrators of such a crime.
Unfortunately, there is madness in Western countries surrounding the issue of child pornography and pedophelia. Here are some examples:
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Pictures of a long dead prophet and caricatures of top officials and warlords. Versus images of real sexually victimized children.
One image is political speech, the other are sexual scenes with those who cannot give consent.
Both are images of course, but images can capture all manner of human experience, from the banal to the brutal.
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Actually, that is not Islam. Sunni Islam allows no "Idols". Shiite Islam happily allows pictures of M. and Allah, and whoever they please.
The problem goes back to the very roots of Islam. When M. died, the Shiites followed his son-in-law (who M. had designated as his replacement) , the Sunnis follow a leader elected by the followers of M.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-... [bbc.com]
http://islam.about.com/cs/divi... [about.com]
BTW, I use M. because there are numerous spellings of his name, and I wouldn't want to put the wrong on
Re:Nope (Score:4, Informative)
Easy, do it the same way RAID does it: redundancy.
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"I don't get is how do you get your files back"
If you keep your files in only one place then many here would say you deserve to lose them.
Re:Nope (Score:5, Insightful)
makes no sense, how much would you rent out say a 2 terabyte hard drive, cost less than $100 to be worth while. might not be bad if they paid $50 a month for it not so much for $5 a month or less.
So why are you willing to payout $50 a month for encrypted 3rd party storage which is legal.
On the other hand say you have a college which needs offsite backups you have another college in the same area also needing off site backups. Now you could could pay for a third party to provide off site storage or you could trade storage space for storage space. If their systems go down they can restore from you and if your systems go down you can restore from you.
It's not the worst disaster recovery plan ever. However it does need trust between the two parties not so easy between strangers. However you might do it between say your drives and your parents. Assuming your not in the basement of course...
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you can restore from them ... i really should proof read better before posting
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Man, that was the least confusing part of your post. At that point I was still wondering how many Slashdotters own colleges.
After understanding what you wrote, though, it is indeed a solid easy strategy. You don't even need to have drives in the systems of your colleagues or family. Just place a NAS in their network and put BTSync or Syncthing (FKAPulseFKASyncthing) on it. With BTSync there even is a hidden method to create an encrypted key so that the data on the 'untrusted' nodes is only there in encrypte
Re:Nope (Score:5, Insightful)
Imagine this in the UK:
Police:"We think you have kiddy porn on your computer, what are the contents of these encrypted files?"
You: "I don't know"
Police: "Tell us the password"
You: "I don't know it"
Judge: "Go to jail until you tell us the password!"
Re:Same in US (Score:2)
You are a sex offender by just having it. Therefore already a criminal and assisting organized crime.
Liability is too much for me
Re:Same in US (Score:5, Interesting)
You are a sex offender by just having it.
This. In some US jurisdictions, you are added to the sex offender registry on indictment, even if you aren't convicted. And then you have to work like hell to get yourself off of it if the charges are dropped or you are found not guilty. The burden is on the accused, when it should be on the State.
Source: I worked in law enforcement for a decade and a half, and a good bit of that time was spent working with the sex offender registry on the back end.
dkj
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Which is why both political sides suck.
We got the government making sure with its complex set of rules that trying to make a few bucks is difficult and risky.
Then we have the corporations trying to get their own extra cut in the action by trying to charge customers more because they are happening to be making money off their product.
The question is asinine (Score:3)
No cutting edge cost management, no benefits of scalabiliy.
And who would want to rely on a average consumer's potentially virus infested, unsecure storage space.
And people who responded to this as if it even could be a serious suggestion didn't think, should be socially reprimanded for being gullible.
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1) Even encrypted, I'd still be pretty wary of having arbitrary files stores on my machines. Even if legally in the clear, just dealing with an LEA when someone uses your machine as a child porn host is going to be unpleasant.
This is the rock where Freenet comes to grief.
The corporate data service can bury its servers in a salt mine or cavern tucked away somewhere deep in the Appalachians. When ISIS or the Feds are breaking down the doors, on-site physical security becomes their problem, not yours, or your family's.
The geek can become obsessed with the notion of "plausible deniability." [Not so much with thinking clearly about what is actually plausible, but that is another story.] The problem is finding someone who gives a d
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Two biggest reasons:
1) Even encrypted, I'd still be pretty wary of having arbitrary files stores on my machines. Even if legally in the clear, just dealing with an LEA when someone uses your machine as a child porn host is going to be unpleasant.
2) Bandwidth is far more valuable to me than storage space. I've got tonnes of storage space, it's cheap. Bandwidth far less so.
Not just that, this is a collective mentality of everyone must share. Do you share your car w/ arbitary strangers, or invite arbitary strangers into your house? Yeah, sometimes, people keep roommates, but it's not a normal practice. Similarly, why would one rent out unused drive space?
What's more - even for the guy who's buying, why go for that, when they can go to Google drive, Hightail or any other such services?
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in fact the tahoe lafs idea (erasure coding, you need e.g. any 3 chunks of the 6 floating around to reconstruct your file) is better suited because you are not hosting the whole document, and you can't even brute force decrypt a single chunk to obtain a part of the document either
Re: Nope (Score:4, Insightful)
Very clever, but you forget one thing.
The dudes showing up at your door is not going to a be gullible fellow nerds.
They will carry it all away, you tablets cell phones, and anyting that looks like sort of computerlike. They are not going to take just the usb stick you hand them, they are going to look at you with blank eyes when you try to explain about vmware.
Then they can with law in hand force you to hand over passwords.
The inconvenience is not that they might find something youre hiding,
The inconvenience us that they will take all your stuff, for who knows hiw longm and werher ut wilk be returned to you intact. The san itself probably should be in a different physical location, preferably on a different address that does not have internet. With wifi or ethernet connectivity to your server location.
So better be more clever. If you have added frequent offsite backup, via net or sneaker, and the ability to recover quickly to a replacement san, ok.
If you have the $$ also review any such deal with a lawyer and have a plan what to do in case of different scenarios.
Not a chance. (Score:5, Insightful)
Not happening.
In addition, whose responsibility is it as to what is 'stored' on my hard drives?
"proper incentivisation"? You couldn't afford enough to pay me for this.
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As for the type of data stored on your disk...those are just bits. They are encrypted and unknown/unavailable to you. Exact and similar patterns of bits show up in hundreds of files. They are just bits.
Have fun explaining that to the SWAT team that just busted down your door and shot your dog and is beating you while you're on the floor.
No (Score:2, Insightful)
For the reasons already cited.
Wuala used to have this (Score:5, Informative)
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Ross Anderson and 1996 came calling. [psu.edu] And the cypherpunk movement had reasonable implementations of such an Eternity Service for a decade or two already. This is, of course, not to say that the first implementations have ever been winners in technology sphere. However, rather than "Wowz, there's this rad completely new idea of renting out your storage space!", I'd like to hear what new features they actually bring to the table -- besides marketing.
Re:Wuala used to have this (Score:5, Informative)
Oh, yeah, they should've said that in the summary - the difference to Morpheus, Freenet, Mojonation, Chord etc. (in no particular order) is that with Storj (which, somehow, is supposed to be pronounced "Storage" according to their site) is that to participate at this stage, you'll have to buy (currently) 300 dollars worth of their freshly minted cryptocurrency. No thanks.
Additionally from their FAQ: "As described in the MetaDisk whitepaper, we will use Florincoin as an initial solution. Eventually, we will transition to a system with more direct and scalable access to the Bitcoin blockchain via proof-of-existence. As blockchain technology improves we can use systems like Factom to provide faster throughput, and Ethereum to create enforceable contracts on data storage." So... they're in large part relying on technology not even developed yet. I get the modern rush to put software out before anybody else (Or say, 20 years after...), but this does sound like a prime example of putting the cart before the horse.
Re:Wuala used to have this (Score:4, Insightful)
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I'm trying hard not to be the token anti-cryptocurrency dude here, but yeah, the theme of the year seems to be "We've invented the wheel - now with Bitcoin!". The glut of different freshly minted cryptocurrencies from everybody who arrived upon the bright idea of starting out a new cryptocurrency, pre-mining it a bit and giving a fancy name has led to people differentiating with different tie-ins to try to get people adopt their coin adopted.
There isn't any instantly apparent reason Storj is tied down to cr
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Yeah, the coin doesn't seem to be doing well: http://coinmarketcap.com/asset... [coinmarketcap.com]
It's not on any exchange, either.
Who has unused drive space? (Score:3)
I'm constantly wanting more space, never do I have free space. Its a constant matter of managing what I don't delete. I guess I'm a data horder.
On that same note ... do I really want someone's kiddie porn on my drive with all the legal issues that go with that? No.
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One of the major online retailers last week had a 5TB USB 3.0 external drive for $129 how much data do you have??? My file server is setup with about 8 TB of space which is plenty it turns out.
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So you're out of the demographic.
That does not apply to everyone, right?
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OK, but what about 100 petabyte?
Even sillier (Score:3)
"Now to rent out something means that there is a compensation for services rendered. This comes in the form of Storjcoin X. Storjcoin X (SJCX) is a token that allows people to buy and rent storage as well as being traded on exchanges. It is a Counterparty asset and uses the Bitcoin blockchain for its transactions."
Re: Even sillier (Score:2)
How is this different from FileCoin?
No thanks to kiddie porn on my drive.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:No thanks to kiddie porn on my drive.... (Score:4, Insightful)
How much more will it take to admit to ourselves that most Western nations are now police states?
Re:No thanks to kiddie porn on my drive.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Legally difficult (Score:5, Interesting)
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Just another reason to not visit the UK, not that people in the UK or anywhere else have much of a reason to visit the US these days. I can't say I'd recommend it anyway, and I live here.
Funny how things that happen all the time are not a legitimate excuse, unless of course they happen to law enforcement. Forget your password (in the UK), potential jail time! Law enforcement "forgets" to share evidence that might cast doubt on your alleged guilt (in the US)--well, that's OK. It must have been a legitima
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they'll arrest you for something else, like obstructing a police officer, obstructing a highway, ignoring a posted "no stopping" or "no loitering" sign, blocking a public thoroughfare or emergency exit... at which point they have probable cause to seize your camera for evidence and keep it for as long as they want to.
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traumatic stress has been known to cause permanent selective memory loss.
Remember this response for the next time you're told that anything you do say will be taken and used in evidence:
"PLEASE DON'T HIT ME AGAIN OFFICER!"
I don't like that idea, but... (Score:2)
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I can put family pictures in the Family SAN, and automatically everyone can access them.
Most file systems are not meant to handle multi-master or even single-master-multi-reader.
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No... (Score:2)
It's a pretty cool idea. And the algorithm would be fun to explore, but the individual overhead alone on this systems isn't worth the time or money for the minimal payout. How much could you possibly, reasonably expect to pull in? A few bucks a year? Certainly not enough to offset your new bandwidth and power requirements.
You'd be better off building a small SAN in your basement and selling cloudiness to people you know for the maintenance costs. A while ago I helped some friends set up a small mesh of
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The problem is it is a terrible idea for a service because as it has mentioned by practically everyone in this forum, storage space is cheap, bandwidth is expensive, and kiddy pron. However, for a company to use on internal networks, it would be a pretty neat idea. It would be an interesting way of turning leased or purchased corporate PCs into cloud-based thin clients while still utilizing the (generally) large hard drives most laptop and desktop machines come with. It also means not needing a data center
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That would be interesting, indeed.
I've never seen a corporation spring for anything greater than the smallest HDD available, though, so the returns wouldn't be too substantial for anyone on a long-term refresh, though I have seen .5 and 1TB drives shipping recently (and you'd probably want to keep your hands off the SSDs for now). Assuming 100 nodes at an average of 100GB of free space allocation each is perhaps 2TB of questionably reliable storage (10TB of very volatile data). You couldn't allow heavy acc
Freenet has existed since Napster (Score:4, Insightful)
And that is all this is.
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Freenet was the first thing that came to my mind when I read the headline.
This isn't a new idea.
Would You Rent Space on Someone Else's Hard Drive? (Score:2)
A primary goal of any sort of cloud storage is high availability: when your own system is unavailable, you want to be pretty certain that you can get the cloud copy.
How many copies of your file would you need to store on random people's hard drives to feel confident that in three years (when you spill beer on your computer) all of those hard drives are still functional, haven't erased your data, and are connected to a computer which is connected to the Internet?
With enough copies of your data floating aroun
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I don't even blindly trust the professionals. I have stuff on Dropbox, Google, and Microsoft, but I also have it on my desktop and 2 laptops. No way would I trust everything to one random person's "cloud".
TOS (Score:2)
No. (Score:2)
No. That is all.
NOT A FUCKING CHANCE IN HELL! (Score:2)
Nope.
NOT going to play that game. Even a little.
Not playing the "Who's liability IS it?" game.
Because all it takes is one nasty lawsuit to fuck over someone for life.
Yes, please! (Score:2)
I just set up a file server (NAS4Free), and it currently has tons of extra space. I would be more than happy to get something back for the extra space until I need it.
For security, I would hope they set up the file servers as Tor dark sites, so even if the encryption fails, there would be no easy way to track down where the storage is.
Sure, I'm game (Score:2)
I have a Commodore 64 setup here with a 1581 and two SFD-1001s... That's about 2.8 megs of floppy storage space I can free up.
How much you want to pay?
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My ForTran IV code rarely goes beyond column 55 of the punched cards....
This already exists (Score:2)
See e.g. Symform.
Would You Rent Out Your Unused Drive Space? (Score:2)
No. (Score:2)
Let me clarify: HELL, no!
Betteridge says... (Score:2)
No.
For the many reasons already cited.
why? (Score:2)
It isn't worth the while for the few days it is unused.
Not for me because (Score:3)
Hmm,,,, (Score:2)
1. encryption works
2. What happens when Jerry Sandusky is caught, and the police demand your drive.
Plausible deniability (Score:2)
What happens if someone else's drive crashes? (Score:3)
One of the fallacies of modern cloud and backup providers is that they actually provide a backup service. Most, including popular services like Backblaze, Mozy, Carbonite, etc contain prominent statements in their contracts that absolve them of any liability in the event of data loss. Your recoverable value in the event they lose your data is limited to either 12 months of service or is explicitly defined as nothing.
Now plenty of people pay for service with these companies, so I'm not claiming they don't make some effort to provide a genuine backup, but we're *starting* from a position where they explicitly have no liability as defined in the ToS. Now, add in the idea of storing critical or merely important files on someone else's hard drive. What happens if the drive you're storing on is a 5400 RPM Quantum Fireball from circa 1999? When that drive fails, what happens to you?
It's the same lack of guarantee with a *further* risk factor. No thanks.
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Freenet has had it for even longer.
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Re: No thank you (Score:2, Funny)
Who said anything about kiddie porn? I'm adding you to the FBI watch list.
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Um, what do think you're doing when you download a torrent?
What do you think you're doing when you request a webpage?
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And who keeps their PC/laptop on all the time. It's not a server.