Samsung Release First SSD With 3D NAND 85
Vigile (99919) writes "As SSD controllers continue to evolve, so does the world of flash memory. With the release of the Samsung 850 Pro SSD announced today, Samsung is the first company to introduce 3D NAND technology to the consumer. By using 30nm process technology that might seem dated in some applications, Samsung has been reliably able to stack lithography and essentially "tunnel holes" in the silicon while coating the inside with the material necessary to hold a charge. The VNAND being used with the Samsung 850 Pro is now 32 layers deep, and though it lowers the total capacity per die, it allows Samsung to lower manufacturer costs with more usable die per wafer. This results in more sustainable and reliable performance as well as a longer life span, allowing Samsung to offer a 10 year warranty on the new drives. PC Perspective has a full review with performance results and usage over time that shows Samsung's innovation is leading the pack."
Re:USD/GB? (Score:5, Informative)
You might try reading the article...
128GB - $129.99 USD ($1.02/GB)
256GB - $199.99 USD ($0.78/GB)
512GB - $399.99 USD ($0.78/GB)
1TB - $699.99 USD ($0.68/GB)
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But that's all the way at the end of the article! How are you supposed to get all the way there? I mean, I could see myself doing it if they had some sort of handy drop down menu, but come on, who has that???
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And how exactly is this cheaper? This is already regular price for all other manufacturers.. But the article specifically states "Samsung to lower manufacturer costs with more usable die per wafer". I guess if it actually comes with a 10 year warranty that is worth a bit.
Re:USD/GB? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yes, lowering manufacturer costs. That is the way for Samsung to get richer, not lowering your costs. ;-)
If these are as reliable as the warranty implies, they'll dramatically lower my costs. The cost of the item is almost negligible at these prices.
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Cheaper for Them to increase profit margins.
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And how exactly is this cheaper?
Easy... it's only 14 times more expensive than spinning disk instead of 15.
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Yes, the price of the 850 is obscene. The 840 wasn't very overwhelming either. The Crucial M500 is where it's at.
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I think the 10 year warranty is the bigger deal. Sandisk is starting to offer 10 year warranties too... show me a single HDD with that sort of warranty.
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Its a limited warranty, subject to the rated TBW. After 150TB of writes, the device is out of warranty. I burn through Samsung 840 Pro drives in about 4-6 months each running full throttle at max IOPS. Still totally worth the cost for the performance increase. I expect similar results from the 850 Pros.
Re:USD/GB? (Score:4, Insightful)
That's a pretty nasty duty cycle, wouldn't it be better to use a massive RAM disk instead, if you need that much constant I/O traffic?
For your average consumer or even professional user, pretty much any SSD on the market will easily outlast the rest of the PC, barring any catastrophic failures. There was a test recently that concluded that you're pretty guaranteed at least 500TB of writes before failure. That's a hell of a lot of data.
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One of my customers has them in the two new computers he bought. Custom built, each with mirrored SSDs for C: drive.
One SSD failed in two months, and one in the other computer is gone after about 8 months. Not high usage either. The workhorse drives are standard spinning disk drives.
I know, YMMV, but still, that's a high failure rate, with good name brand drives.
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Even Samsung has had a few sketchy models.
Mirrored SSDs that die from "wear", will fail near the same time.
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Parent poster here, I use the 840 Pros I mentioned above on my laptop, I already have extensive caching going on with about 12GB of my 32GB of RAM, but its still saturates the SATA bus due to the mostly random nature of the I/Os. Its basically a giant 300GB b+tree with 2MB leaf nodes and about a 40% insertion 40% lookup and 20% deletion ratio.
The performance is worth the cost a drive every now and again. The drives last way longer than their rated 72TB, in practice they typically manage about 600TB of write
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Parent poster here, I use the 840 Pros I mentioned above on my laptop, I already have extensive caching going on with about 12GB of my 32GB of RAM, but its still saturates the SATA bus due to the mostly random nature of the I/Os. Its basically a giant 300GB b+tree with 2MB leaf nodes and about a 40% insertion 40% lookup and 20% deletion ratio.
Wouldn't something like this [intel.com] or another enterprise drive be a better match for you?
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That's pretty impressive. An 800GB drive is rated at 8TB/day. 14PB over 5 years.
With parent posters writes of 600TB in 4 months, 5TB per day, these drives will outlast their 5 year life span.
More advertising! (Score:2, Offtopic)
Man, this has to be the most blatant Slashvertisement I've ever read. The summary even sounds as though it was written by a professional ad copy writer. Gimme a break, Dicedot!
Re: Do you have any actual evidence? (Score:1)
Oh get over yourself. The submission reads *like* a paid ad, which is editorially questionable, regardless of whether it actually is.
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What, you can't detect the fishy whiff from "shows Samsung's innovation is leading the pack"? Real humans don't talk like this.
On the other hand, I don't think I'd blame Samsung. The submitter links to pcper.com *a lot*. If I was to bet on who was paying for links on Slashdot, it wouldn't be Samsung.
Do you have any actual evidence? (Score:1)
"..then you should apologize immediately. Apologize to Samsung, apologize to Timothy and the submitter, and apologize to the entire Slashdot community, please."
Oh brother. Relax, Francis.
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3D chips aren't new at all [wordpress.com].
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Samsung has the same brand recognition as apple among slashdot crowd and this does seem interesting stuff in a more technical way than your average apple article.
If it were the launch of Iphone 7 or 8 (or whatever number it is now) you would not call it slashvertisement.
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Some would. I don't own an iphone, I don't care about iphones, they're just smartphones, like any other. If it had some radical new technology like built in satellite or a teleporter, I'd care, but if Apple craps out another shiny brushed aluminum thing and Slashdot wanks all over it, it's a slashvertisement.
More advertising! (Score:1)
I see what you mean, though I think it might be a case of poor writing rather than a true paid advertisement.
The summary does read like a product launch advertisement from the manufacturer. The word "Samsung" is used seven times in six sentences, the last sounding more like hyperbole than fact.
"..Samsung's innovation is leading the pack!"
Would you prefer.. (Score:2)
The summary even sounds as though it was written by a professional ad copy writer. Gimme a break, Dicedot!
Would you prefer a summary written by a primary school kid like the normal quality of work we get from Slashdot?
Of note is that while the summary may read like an advertisement the article most certainly does not. There's excellent pictures of what a 3D process looks like that I haven't seen before. Furthermore as a nerd the emergence and the general application of 3D silicon is most interesting news. Yes it's read like an advertisement but there's a lot of meat in this that makes it newsworthy and interest
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Man, this has to be the most blatant Slashvertisement I've ever read.
Disagree. 3D semiconductor tech landing in mass market products is still big news.
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It's because 3D CPUs are kind of dangerous [wordpress.com].
Prices, from TFA: $0.68-$1.02/GB (Score:3, Informative)
128GB - $129.99 USD ($1.02/GB)
256GB - $199.99 USD ($0.78/GB)
512GB - $399.99 USD ($0.78/GB)
1TB - $699.99 USD ($0.68/GB)
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/S... [pcper.com]
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We've had SSDs with ~0.50/GB for a few years now (since at least 2012).
Whats getting better is that that price range is now available for capacities above 240GB, and that they come with a decent warranty.
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Note that the warranty is only rated for 40GB of writes per day. Not sure what happens if you exceed that. Sometimes I do more than that through my internet connection, let alone to the drive.
Platter wins? (Score:2)
In the linked results a mechanical drive with platters smokes them all?
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Yeah never mind, I see the results are graphing time..
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When 0 is defined as "less than 1 unit of measurement", it depends on how big the unit of measurement is.
Non-high performance timers are usually only ~16ms per tick.
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Physical impossibilities usually are.
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No. In most of the graphs, all the SSDs are faster. Shorter being faster.
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The only case where being short wins.
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More or less every SSD on the market currently will saturate even a 6Gbit/s SATA connection, you don't have to buy the latest and greatest to achieve maximum possible transfer speed. If you put this SSD in a new PC today, the SSD will pretty much be the last component to be obsolete, save maybe the physical case itself. This situation is going to persist for some time, so I can easily see one of these drives being used for 10 years across various upgraded PCs. It'll keep up with faster CPUs and RAM, no prob
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Anyone can appreciate the speed boost (and silence!) an SSD brings, not just enthusiasts.
If the noisiest thing in your computer is your hard drive, something is wrong. Case, CPU and GPU fans are way noisier than a modern HD.
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Tell that to the hard drive I switched for an SSD. I measured a drop from 33dB to 30dB measured right beside the PC during drive read/write. And that was with the harddrive mounted on rubber dampers. Most modern computers use large variable-speed fans that make very little noise.
It's true that modern hard drives are very quiet. Right up until they start seeking.
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Who says you need fans in a PC?
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Hear, hear. I have a passively cooled DN2800MT in the living room for my kids to play with. It's sufficiently powerful for most online games (think candy-crush) or GCompris or oldish (so called educational) games they find at the library (**). The only moving parts in there are the DVD and HDD. As expected, the DVD-player is 'loud' but although the hard-disk is a modern and fairly silent one; you absolutely notice it whenever the OS puts it to sleep!
(**: Most of these cd-roms come with minimum requirements
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Passively cooled PCs are very underpowered compared to their actively cooled counterparts. If you want to use your PC for anything like gaming, compiling, or stuff like that, you're going to need active cooling.
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You just need to increase the surface area.
eg: Fanless heatsink for 95W TDP CPU's: http://www.quietpc.com/nof-ice... [quietpc.com]
There are a few cases with integrated heat sinks capable of 95W CPU's: http://quietpc.co.uk/st-fc10 [quietpc.co.uk]
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Re:10 yr warranty hah (Score:5, Insightful)
10 yr warranty on something that will be obsolete in much less time, bought only by those who keep current with tech?
10 years means it's either not a piece of shit that will fail within a couple years or Samsung is going to bankrupt their storage division doing it. a) is more likely.
SSD failures are a pain in the ass, especially when you have to drive a couple hundred miles to replace them. And even if the machines are close, it costs human time and on-call pages to deal with them. Unreliable gear is a nightmare.
The only SSD's I've had working for years and years have been Intel SLC units. I'm hoarding a box of dozens of failed Kingstons, Mushkins, Crucials, etc. on the mistaken belief that I'll ever send them in to claim the warranties (the truth is I won't trust their replacements so why bother unless I'm going to triple-RAID mirror the things).
For somebody like me who does not want to worry about the SSD's failing before they get replaced, this is exactly what I'm in the market for. A buck a gig? Sold.
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The warranty covers 10 years or 150TBW whichever comes first. This should be fine for private use (150TB written over 10 yrs = 40GBW/day) but YMMV.
http://www.samsung.com/global/... [samsung.com]
Not bad (Score:2)
Forget the product but think of reverting back to 30nm. Also from the benchmarks it looks consistently faster in all but one test vs. the 840. With a lower manufacturing costs we're probably truly seeing the end of the line for rotating media in most desktop/server configurations. I'm wondering when I can get a 1TB+ with this new process now.
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OH yeah, 100K IOPS of course most drones keep a 4K cluster, what a waste. Unfortunately all I see are tech/press releases nothing in terms of "buy it now" option.
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Well with the 840s coming down in price over the recent months you had to wonder when the next generation would be available. I already have two 840 pros in my laptop, the previous was Hybrid drives which are pretty decent over the old 5400 RPM laptop drives that folks are still pushing these days. Still, in 4TB sizes I think rotational media will still be around for awhile. I have two Hybrid 4TB drives right now in one desktop and there about 70% faster than the old 7200RPM 3TB drives they replaced.
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My neighbour has a laptop like that and it's a PITA. /. will jump on it, don't bother) but it seems that the 32-ish (?) Gb of mSata is being used as some kind of cache for the BIOS that tries to buffer (read + write) towards the HDD. I've been considering putting linux on it simply to see whether this would benefit from this too (meaning it's pure BIOS, which going by the error-screens I thi
I'm not sure what exactly I should blame, the hardware implementation (via the BIOS) or the OS (W8 so I'm sure half of
that's nothing.. (Score:1)
curved SSDs are coming soon