$39 Arduino Compatible Boardset Runs Linux On New x86 SoC 95
DeviceGuru writes "DM&P Group has begun shipping a $39 Arduino compatible boardset and similar mini-PC equipped with a new computer-on-module based on a new 300MHz x86 compatible Vortex86EX system-on-chip. The $39 86Duino Zero boardset mimics an Arduino Leonardo, in terms of both form-factor and I/O expansion. The tiny $49 86Duino Educake mini-PC incorportates the same functionality, but in a 78 x 70 x 29mm enclosure with an integrated I/O expansion breadboard built into its top surface. The mini-PC's front and back provide 2x USB, audio in/out, Ethernet, and COM interfaces, power input, and an SD card slot. The hardware and software source for all the boards, including the computer-on-module, are available for download under open source licenses at the 86Duino.com website."
Imagine... (Score:1, Funny)
Other OS'es (Score:1)
Can I run bsd on it?
Re:Other OS'es (Score:4, Informative)
You should. Most BSDs are compatible with x86 and I don't see anything in the spec list that would be a showstopper.
Re: (Score:1)
Side note, you can run FreeBSD and NetBSD on Raspberry Pi too, which is Arm.
Re: (Score:2)
Non-starter for me. (Score:5, Insightful)
Add in the community that has grown up around the Raspberry and I know where my money will be going.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
This board has Ethernet, so you should compare it with the $35 Ethernet equipped version of RPI.
ADC, PWM, CAN, ISA, PCIe are on there too.
Compared to a "Arduino", this is not too bad.
The latest "Arduino" is $90 http://blog.wickeddevice.com/?p=494 and still running a 8-bit CPU.
Re:Non-starter for me. (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
I love it when companies destroy any chance of being successful by trying to screw you on shipping.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The latest "Arduino" is $90 http://blog.wickeddevice.com/?p=494 [wickeddevice.com] and still running a 8-bit CPU.
The latest Arduino board, the Due can be found here: http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardDue [arduino.cc]
And its ARM based, a 32 bit CPU.
There is also the older Yun: http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardYun [arduino.cc]
Which has a Atheros AR9331 daughter board as well as an 8bit CPU. It runs Linux out of the box.
The board you linked to is a clone, not an actual arduino, and there are hundreds of different clones that run all sorts of CPUs right down the the Intel Galileo which is an Atom board (x86)
Re: (Score:3)
I really don't understand why people don't get this. The Arduino is a micro controller, it's NOT a computer. The RPI is a computer, NOT a micro controller. This new thing they are talking about here is a combination of both. It can not be compared to either. I wasn't aware that you could get a RPI shield for a Arduino but I just checked and apparently you can. So add up the price of all 3, then compare them with this.
A Microcontroller IS a computer (Score:2)
No, it's not a blazingly fast computer, but both the Arduino and RPi are computers. If you want a built-in graphics chip, no, Arduino doesn't have one of those, but you can still drive simple displays. If you want to listen to sensor wires and turn on LEDs, either one will work, though the Arduino and BeagleBoneBlack have a lot more connector pins than the RPi, but you can do microcontroller jobs with either one. If you want an operating system, yeah, Arduino isn't going to run anything very sophisticate
Much slower than Beaglebone Black (Score:3)
The main problem with Raspberry Pi is that it's an earlier ARM spec; the new Beaglebone Black is ~$45 and has a newer ARM version so you get more choice of operating systems (I've read that RPi can't do Ubuntu, but BBB can, though reviewers differ on whether RPi can also.) On the other hand, the RPi has a more powerful graphics chip, so it can do full 1080p, which the BBB can't (which answers the question of which one I'm going to get to put next to my TV.) BBB has a 1 GHz CPU and a lot more I/O pins th
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Slower than a Raspberry Pi? Wow! There must be a reason for making such a device, but I can't for the life of me imagine what it might be.
Re:Non-starter for me. (Score:5, Informative)
Far more GPIO (the Pi only has 8, which is rather pitiful), compatibility with Ardiuno (so lots of expansion modules readily available), built-in SATA/COM/parallel port support, etc. Not everything is about speed. Also, it's x86, so it's compatible with a totally different set of programs/OSes.
Re: (Score:3)
[...]Also, it's x86, so it's compatible with a totally different set of programs/OSes.
I'm sure someone will manage to compile a Debian based distro that can handle x86.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
This should be able to run standard Debian.
Or is that an attempt at a joke?
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Non-starter for me. (Score:4, Informative)
That one doesn't have any GPIOs or micocontroller buses. Completely useless for the kinds of things this board is meant for.
Re: (Score:2)
That one doesn't have any GPIOs or micocontroller buses. Completely useless for the kinds of things this board is meant for.
Out of genuine curiosity, I'm honestly deeply unfamiliar with this side of the game, is there a lot of low-power/embedded x86 code out there that continues to drive demand for very anemic 4-to-586s with decent embedded I/O?
I assume that the crop of 'expensive device connected to ancient computer that runs DOS more or less as a bootloader for a very specific control application' PCs is definitely up for replacement, now that you can put anything up through the mid '90s onto a little solid-state module the
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I've thankfully not had too much of the pleasure of dealing with them; but x86s running DOS and a suitable control program had a period of popularity as a (comparatively) cheap CNC machine drive/controller mechanism. Typically using the OS as little more than a bootloader, making dubiousl
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
VMs are 100% useless for embedded applications. The V in VM totally destroys all assumptions about timing. The advantage of these boards over AMD Bobcat, Atom, etc, is that they are based on 486 and so have a shorter pipeline, therefore, for timing critical interrupt driven processing, they are actually faster than an Atom. Of course an ARM M4 has even better critical path timing characteristics, but there is no standard OS for Cortex Mwhatever, and certainly nothing you can login to remotely like BSD or DO
Re: (Score:2)
Out of genuine curiosity, I'm honestly deeply unfamiliar with this side of the game, is there a lot of low-power/embedded x86 code out there that continues to drive demand for very anemic 4-to-586s with decent embedded I/O?
There's a metric shitload of x86 PCs out there from XTs up to usually about 386s running all kinds of industrial automation from flood control valves to milling machines. If you can reuse the existing code with just some tweaks to the driver section, then you win. And indeed, since this thing will run DOS (and pretty much all those old embedded PCs are too) it's a perfect fit. Some of those programs are so old they were written in x86 ASM to begin with, so a port is not practical.
Beaglebone Black (Score:3)
Get a BeagleBone Black. Tons of GPIO along with ADCs and PWM channels. Of course all the usual SPI and 1Wire stuff as well.
Re: (Score:2)
It has useful I/O, i.e. actual ethernet and SATA and non-broken USB.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Yes, 6 pins at 11 bits precision.
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe not everything is designed to run a full blown Linux desktop at 1080p?
Seriously the RPi is lightning fast. I'm running a bunch of 8MHz processors for my most common work.
Re: (Score:2)
The RPi is lightning fast, but its I/O is shit. And therein lies the biggest problem with the Pi. You can calculate very quickly, but unless the data you want can easily be represented via the HDMI port, you can't trust that you'll be able to use the data quickly. Which is why the best thing you can do with the Pi is build a media player, for example, with internal Ambilight clone. There's better options for pretty much any other purpose now.
Re: (Score:2)
Fully agree, though there's one other use case for the RPi which is any system requiring a full network stack. The most appealing uses of RPis I've seen are media players (like mine running Raspbmc), emulators for old games, or some network applications like an auto Tor re-router, or proxy server or something like that (though not NAS thanks to it's lack of SATA.
Re: (Score:2)
Fully agree, though there's one other use case for the RPi which is any system requiring a full network stack.
I'll let you have that with the provision that you're using the SD card for storage, and you're not trying to max out the network interface... Otherwise you want a cubieboard or a pogoplug. I cannot understand why the community has not embraced the pogoplug more, you can run arch on debian on 'em and the newer ones have USB3 and GigE. For those cases where you don't need SATA... This little x86 machine at least has SATA, so you could use it for a low-end filer I guess.
Re: (Score:2)
Do you really have to ask that question? The cheapest place I've found the Pogoplug is ebay and still double the cost of the RPi. The same can be said for the Beagleboard or any number of devices which are better speced and yet can't be had for $25.
The reason people don't embrace it is the same reason we're having this discussion, not everyone needs a premium priced ultra speced out box to do basic tasks. Also your provision is indeed a good one, but then again there's very few applications other than a NAS
Video is why RPi, not PogoPlug (Score:2)
RPi and BeagleBoneBlack have HDMI video built in (though BBB won't do 1080p and RPi will, because the graphics chip is heftier even though the CPU's a bit slower.) None of the Pogoplugs I've seen have video; they're headless only.
But yeah, if this x86 thing has SATA, that does make some extra applications possible.
Re: (Score:3)
To the BeagleBone Black, of course.
No? The pcDuino, then? No? Cubieboard? El cheapo chinese tablet with an I/O expander? Don't leave us hanging!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Add in the community that has grown up around the Raspberry and I know where my money will be going.
The Arduino community is huge and extremely productive/creative.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
x86 has more OSs available.
The vendor supports DOS, Linux, and purportedly WIndows. From what I understand, "Windows" would be "XP or older", since a Vortex86EX appears to be 586-level or so.
Coincidentally, that's the same ISA as Galileo.
It's an option if you have some 16-bit code that you need to keep going...which is especially likely on any sort of continuation of an older hardware project.
The other aspect is that you can compile on your PC without setting up a cross-compiling environment. On the one han
wow its a vortex board (Score:1)
and a shitty one at that, though not 39$ I have a 800Mhz vortex86 board with ISA, pci, 8 serial ports, printer port, IDE port, floppy port, 4 USB, 32 5 volt GPIO, network, and uses laptop DDR ram.
That thing is so old every major part on it has been obsoleted to the point of just about impossible to find, so A whats so impressive about yet another PC on a board, and B) why is it so fucking slow?
Re: (Score:3)
Probably still better than Intel's Galileo board, which doesn't even have proper native GPIOs (they all go through a slow I2C I/O expander), is more expensive, and has worse power usage.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Plus the Intel may be assumed to have an NSA mod.
Re:wow its a vortex board (Score:5, Informative)
Compatibility is worse on this board though - it's a 486 core. Most modern Linux is compiled for i586 (Pentium) ISA, so you can't even run a stock Linux distribution (even the "i386" distros usually assume Pentium and up). You'll need to basically recompile everything for i486 instruction set to get it to work.
Last time I dealt with this, Puppy Linux was all that could run by default on it (I think it compiled everything i386 - though Linux needs 486 or better). Everything it didn't come with had to be recompiled from source as practically all binaries available were i586.
Though it can probably run Windows - I think XP should run just fine on it.
And yes, I've tried running i586 binaries on boards with the Vortex processor on them. You usually get a segfault or illegal instruction error sooner or later.
Re: (Score:2)
That is a real problem. The Raspberry is annoying in the same way, you have to recompile everything because it uses such an old ARM standard. Come on people, it really should be possible to be Pentium Pro compatible at this point.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
not a problem at all, forget that bloated penguin and get the beastie or blowfish on there.
Re: (Score:2)
That matches my experience with a similar Vortex x86 CPU. It was 486-compatible, but Pentium-specific instructions such as RDTSC were illegal. I had to compile a custom kernel, and make sure that all the userspace libaries and programs were 486. But this was no big deal. You always have to do things like that for embedded development, and it's usually a lot more hassle for an ARM-based platform because of the higher degree of variation.
I'd also expect it to run older versions of Windows, though XP may be a
Re: (Score:2)
As always, Debian will run on it [debian.org]
Re: (Score:3)
Compatibility is worse on this board though - it's a 486 core. Most modern Linux is compiled for i586 (Pentium) ISA, so you can't even run a stock Linux distribution (even the "i386" distros usually assume Pentium and up). You'll need to basically recompile everything for i486 instruction set to get it to work.
Last time I dealt with this, Puppy Linux was all that could run by default on it (I think it compiled everything i386 - though Linux needs 486 or better). Everything it didn't come with had to be recompiled from source as practically all binaries available were i586.
Though it can probably run Windows - I think XP should run just fine on it.
And yes, I've tried running i586 binaries on boards with the Vortex processor on them. You usually get a segfault or illegal instruction error sooner or later.
Windows 2000 is the last version you can get to run on a 486. XP requires Pentium/586 or higher, Vista requires some certain level of ACPI, and Windows 8 requires PAE, NX, and SSE2.
Re: (Score:2)
On a true 486 yes. All that XP requires to run however is the CMPXCHG8B instruction which Vortex86 implemented probably years ago.
What do people do with these things? (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
but why x86? (Score:2)
There are ARM and MIPS boards that are even cheaper, and if you're doing it from scratch they're not much more work since you'd need to rebuild everything for this board anyway (it's not 586-compatible).
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Would you mind pointing out or naming one of the MIPS boards?
Not that I doubt you, but I've been looking for them for a couple years and have yet to find anything MIPS in that price range, except a few routers.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
RepRap (Score:2)
300MHz x86? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Good for three things (Score:2)
First, the educake is actually a complete solution with a breadboard on. That's great no matter what the architecture is.
Second, the platform plays to the strengths of educators. Namely, there's already DOS ASM instructors just sitting around waiting to instruct.
Third, the platform will be useful for replacement of existing embedded systems which also have x86 processors. A little fringey, but a lot of those embedded systems are just a DOS system with a GPIO board (basically) to begin with.
Re: (Score:2)
Vortex86MX (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Lights out module? (Score:1)
I wonder, since the zero has a pcie board connector, if this could be used as some sort of lights out module on the cheap.
James