Tesla Model S Has Bizarre 'Vampire-Like' Thirst For Electricity At Night 424
cartechboy writes "The Tesla Model S, for all its technical and design wizardry, has a dirty little secret: Its a vampire. The car has an odd and substantial appetite for kilowatt-hours even when turned off and parked. This phenomenon has been dubbed the 'vampire' draw, and Tesla promised long ago to fix this issue with a software update. Well, a few software updates have come and gone since then, and the Model S is still a vampire sucking down energy when it's shut down. While this is a concern for many Model S owners and would be owners, the larger question becomes: After nine months, and multiple software updates,why can't Tesla fix this known issue? Tesla has recognized the issue and said a fix would come, yet the latest fix is only a tiny improvement — and the problem remains unsolved. Is Tesla stumped? Can the issue be fixed?"
Ahha! (Score:3)
Vampires? (Score:5, Funny)
But on a serious note - I'm pretty sure the issue has something to do with this: http://sanctuary.wikia.com/wiki/Nikola_Tesla [wikia.com]
New name (Score:5, Funny)
Now known as Lestat model S.
Vampire? Huh?! (Score:3, Interesting)
Vampire-like? Huh? Are we dumb kids here or sum'thin'? This is beyond anthropomorphization, man.
The energy has to go somewhere. They have power management on that car, as well as engineering telemetry. They know exactly where it goes. Let's cut the bullshit. As far as I can tell from how it looks, the energy is needed for something. I don't know what, maybe the batteries have high leakage, whatever, but it's not like the energy evaporates. The power/charge management system needs this energy, and what they are fixing is not some random energy drain - they are trying, and failing, to fix the underlying cause that is not easy to fix. I don't know if it's a design issue in electronics, or a battery issue, or what. But one thing is for sure: they know exactly where all those kWh end up at, but they're failing at resolving it. If the drain was significant on cold nights, I'd say that it goes into battery pack heaters.
Re: (Score:2)
Even if they didn't know where it was going, you could find out with a cheap multimeter within an hour or two.
Re:Vampire? Huh?! (Score:5, Funny)
That's the problem. The engineers at Tesla have the really expensive multimeters.
Re:Vampire? Huh?! (Score:5, Interesting)
I know you joke but we've had some engineers truly stumped and raising all sorts of wonderful alarms due to this very issue. Fancy expensive multimeters with internal resistances in the >10s of GOhms. They've tested for dead on the cable and the cable measured some 70V. I went and got an ancient analogue meter and it measured zero. Naturally it was my meter that was "broken". So we made a bet. $100 that I put a 24V bulb on his 70V cable and it wouldn't even light up briefly.
Turns out the cable was picking up noise which presented a voltage to the very expensive meter, but we were talking about only microwatts. I was $100 richer and my ancient analogue meter got some real cred.
Had a similar issue on a 24V supply where one engineer was insisting that we didn't turn off the correct battery bank because he was still measuring 24V. Turns out that leakage current back from the other bank was causing the reading which again wouldn't have been a problem if he didn't have such a damn good multimeter.
Re:Vampire? Huh?! (Score:4, Insightful)
Now I have to say Pics or STFU.
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
I wouldn't go poking around with a cheap meter in an electric car, the potential to have many thousands of amps turn chinese test equipment into several cubic meters of hot gas is too big. With a slightly more expensive meter (200-300$) you can do clamp on current measurement AND keep all of your body hair!
However I think the people who have the cash for a Tesla might not be the same kind who like to service their own cars. You never see anyone change the oil in their Merc on the driveway. They pay
Re:Vampire? Huh?! (Score:5, Funny)
Nah a cheap one would work fine.
If the cheap meter explodes *while the car is off* you know you are on the right track.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
That's a feature. It did say it has an audible continuity test on the package. I'd call an arc explosion audible.
Re: (Score:2)
With a slightly more expensive meter (200-300$) you can do clamp on current measurement AND keep all of your body hair!
Why so expensive? A clamp on probe costs $40 on ebay, will work with any cheap multimeter.
If you want to go even cheaper, all you need is a self-wound coil (50-100 turns will do) around an iron C-clamp, three resistors and a capacitor.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
There's that concept called "high impedance" you should probably be looking into.
Re: (Score:2)
What are you guys considering cheap? My cheap $50 meter has a current probe. $50 is dirt cheap by Fluke standards.
Re:Vampire? Huh?! (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Even if they didn't know where it was going, you could find out with a cheap multimeter within an hour or two.
I could do it even faster. Just feel around for something that is hot. That is where the energy is going.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Or use an infrared camera on a cold night.
Re: Vampire? Huh?! (Score:2)
You mean 'dissipates', and yes, it does, as heat. Poof, right into thin air. In other news, Tesla owners reconsider purchasing garage heaters.
Re:Vampire? Huh?! (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd look for heat.
That amount of energy drain will be making something warm.
Re:Vampire? Huh?! (Score:5, Informative)
No big mysteries here. Room for complaint that this issue hasn't been resolved quickly, though.
Re:Vampire? Huh?! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
The problem with suspend nowadays is that it takes almost as long to restore 8GB or more of RAM as it does to perform POST. (This will change yet again when SSDs become commonplace.) Then you wait to see if all the peripherals comes back online properly, THEN you get to see if the OS recovers properly. Except for retaining state, you might as well turn the computer off. I opted the other way, and have mine running all the time. All the tedious housekeeping stuff happens when I'm asleep, and it's always
Re: (Score:2)
Modded 5 for random speculation....
... that the first law of thermodynamics applies to the Tesla
Re:Vampire? Huh?! (Score:5, Interesting)
No big mysteries here. Room for complaint that this issue hasn't been resolved quickly, though.
Your quote is from the original article from March. In the next link he talks about the latest November update, which reintroduced sleep mode.
That said, he's wrong that the latest update doesn't fix the problem. I own a Model S, and I went from losing about 5 miles off my rated range in 8 hours to losing about 1 mile per 14 hours. So, what's the difference between my car and his? Well, based on the pictures he posted, which has snow on the ground, he lives somewhere far colder than South Carolina, where I live. So his car is using more power for thermal management of the batteries.
But wait, you say. The article says, "It's a popular myth among Model S owners that much of the vampire power goes to keep the battery warm during cold nights. This is simply not true. According to Tesla, there is no thermal management of the Model S battery when the car is turned off and not charging--no matter how cold it gets."
True, guy. However, let's examine your testing methodology: "For each test, I charged the car up in the evening to its usual selected level (In my case, about 80 percent). Then I removed the charge plug. I allowed the car to sit unplugged overnight and on into the next day, until I needed to drive it. (Typically a span of 12 to 24 hours.) Before driving it, I plugged it back in to top off the vampire-depleted battery back to its original level. Then I checked the kWh-meter."
And...when you plug it in to charge it, the pumps come on, and they start heating up your battery for safe charging. There's your so-called vampire load. My car, in a warmer environment, doesn't have to spend as much energy doing that.
Furthermore, he says: "The three tests showed vampire losses of 2.3 kWh in 17 hours, 1.9 kWh in 23 hours, and 4.2 kWh in 18 hours...I can't explain the wide variation in the vampire draw over the three tests."
Maybe he should try correlating it with temperature.
kWh/day is stupid. (Score:3, Insightful)
Why use kWh/day when we can use W? Do these guys really not understand units, or is there some silly love for kWh/day?
This just makes me cringe:
"[...] 4.5 kilowatt-hours per day. That's the equivalent of three 60-watt light bulbs burning 24/7."
Couldn't he just say "190 watts"? (Or 180 W if he wanted to round incorrectly to match the light bulbs example).
Re:kWh/day is stupid. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: kWh/day is stupid. (Score:5, Informative)
No, because it's not using '180W'. It's using the equivalent of 180W draining for 24 hours. Compare with 180W draing for 5 minutes, the time component is important.
Re: (Score:2)
No. Power consumption is typically measured in watts, not joules, since power is generally more useful as a rate measurement than energy.
Re: (Score:3)
Maybe then, he should not post at all. I wouldn't cut anyone some slack for bypassing and abusing a moderation system.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
well, no.
or he would need to say that it burns during the nights times the equivalent of running 180watts 24/7.
and since electricity is billed in kwh why not go with that...
Re:kWh/day is stupid. (Score:5, Insightful)
Right off the bat when he compares the Tesla's range estimate at the end of the day (when the batteries are warm) with the one the next morning (when the batteries are cold) I was already shaking my head. Fortunately the article later includes the explanation from the Tesla rep, but therein begins the pattern: long-winded article going on about this guy's half-assed attempts at figuring this out, punctuated by sensible explanations from the Tesla rep. The whole article could have been summarized thusly:
And why does he seem to lose more juice than the Tesla rep's estimate? (1) Tesla's estimate is likely an average and isn't specific to the cold overnight conditions this guy has (the system's drain on a cold battery will be harsher), and (2) he's measuring how much THE CHARGER is using in the morning, and he says himself that the charging system needs to warm up the batteries before charging, so he's measuring lost power PLUS the power needed to warm the system.
Mod parent up! (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
The average PC draws around 50-200W idle.
And as you said, this is more or less what the author found, except that he apparently has no idea how to convert kW/h per hour into watts. And for some reason, he's using lightbulbs as a yardstick, and not a PC... which is, after all, basically what is running on the tesla 24/7
Yes, he's a fucking moron.
Re:kWh/day is stupid. (Score:5, Informative)
The average PC draws around 50-200W idle.
And as you said, this is more or less what the author found, except that he apparently has no idea how to convert kW/h per hour into watts.
Yes, he's a fucking moron.
Sorry, but you are wrong her. First, it's KWh (KiloWatthour), not KW/h.
The Watt is a unit that is used for measuring the amount of energy used per unit of time, in short 1 Watt = 1 Joule per second.
When electric energy is stored, like in a battery, or measured, the total energy stored or used is derived by multiplying Watts by time, thus Watt * seconds. Since this is not an easy workable unit, KiloWatts are multiplied by hours, and there we have the KWh.
So, if a battery has a capacity of 100 KWh, it is able of delivering 1000W for 100 hours, 500W for 200 hours, 100W for 1000 hours and 1W for 100,000 hours.
So, to make a long story short, the lost capacity of a battery HAS to be expressed in KWh, and the resulting loss of range totally depends on the driving conditions. It might be (numbers pulled from lower opening of intestine) 100 km when driving a constant 20 km/h, or 5 km when driving a constant 150 km/h, since the amount of power drawn on these speeds vary. But I hope you get the picture.
The qualification as a copulating, low-IQ person is totally yours.
Yowzers! (Score:2)
Since the Model S was introduced in 2012, this "vampire" power drain from the cars sold so far has consumed roughly 15 gigawatt-hours of electric energy, nearly a day's output for a mid-size nuclear power plant. It's enough wasted energy to drive the cars 50 million miles.
Seems odd that I've never heard this before now. That's a lot of wasted electricity that was generated, more than likely, by oil/coal burning.
Re: (Score:2)
Since power plants are totally overspecced for the nighttime consumption, you can rest assured that this electricity, which would have been wasted, is happily helping line the coffers of your local utility.
Re: (Score:2)
You like numbers without perspective? Lets have some more, we could write further sensationalistic pseudo-journalistic articles on the internet.
There are about 114 million TV sets in the USA. In average they use about 10 W of power on standby. Let say they are on standby 20 hours per day... I let you calculate how much electricity was wasted there in the same period.
hint: it's more in a day than all the model S sold so far. Perspective helps to understand...
Standby power (Score:2)
You might be a little high on an average of 10W on standby [wikipedia.org]. The limit has been 1W since 2010, and is .5W starting this year.
But yeah, I wouldn't be happy with the car I bought to be energy efficient burning almost as much power as I need for my daily commute every day.
Re: (Score:2)
I bet the average television is "old" by the standard given in wikipedia.
Re: (Score:2)
Probably so, but while details are lacking, vampire draw has been dropping for decades, and took a BIG hit with the switch from CRT to LED. I know I metered my 2008 LED TV and it's standby was 2 watts.
We can always pull the plug (Score:5, Funny)
They used to tell us that if technology ever got out of hand, we could always pull the plug.
Of course you are asleep when the problem occurs. If this were a low-wattage appliance you could just use one of those timers that people use for Christmas lights. You might be able to hack a heavy duty version of that by using a timer that moves a lever that knocks a bowling ball off a shelf. The bowling ball is tied to the Tesla power plug. That oughtta do 'er.
Ahh, but you say the Tesla doesn't always take the same time to charge? Easy. You just need to program it to tweet charge state to your phone. Then your phone can send something to the device that pushes the bowling ball off the shelf that pulls the plug.
Oh, but wait. Tweeting the location of your car isn't secure, and you may not have access to the car's APIs anyway. Besides, they're buggy and suspect.
So. You need to have a separate secure device in the car that monitors the charge state, and logs in to your web site with HTTPS and relays that information securely to the device that pushes the bowling ball off the shelf that pulls the plug.
There. All fixed. I just hope the ball doesn't roll off the shelf the wrong way and dent the car. To make sure that doesn't happen we need...
Re: (Score:2)
Who relays the relays?
My god it's a Stainless Steel leach (Score:5, Funny)
What does it do roam the roads by night draining the life out of Priuses ?
Re: (Score:2)
No - it's not actually a vampire. But it does run them down at night and turn them into were-cars.
Needed to fully charge batteries (Score:2)
I'm not sure about the Tesla batteries, but most rechargeable batteries need an "over charge" to get to 100% full.
If the charger stops at the "full" mark (as indicated by Volts or A/H's) the batteries will be only be at about 80% full.
Self-discharge, or some system remaining on? (Score:2, Informative)
Many types of batteries have a low enough internal resistance to self-discharge when not in use. Nickel-cadmium batteries are notable for a high self-discharge rate. But lithium batteries generally have a low self-discharge rate, only a few percent a month. This Tesla owner is reporting something like 5% discharge overnight. That's a huge self-discharge rate for any modern battery chemistry.
Tesla's battery has a series-parallel arrangement, and if some cells fail, they could drag down the rest of the pa
Google + Tesla conspiracy (Score:5, Funny)
Tesla is renting the cars out at night using Google's self driving technology and Google maps to run a secret taxi service. That guy reported 10-15 miles of charge missing overnights, that could be a few fairs used to pay for more of Tesla's research.
Since, pre-existing conditions are covered ... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Since, pre-existing conditions are covered ... (Score:5, Informative)
I think hitting a steel tow hitch at 70MPH is more than a little bump, or going through a concrete wall at 100MPh. People are blowing the fires all out of proportion. If a standard ICE car hit something like that in the engine compartment there's a good chance of a fire as well. In this case, since the battery is under the passenger compartment, a more likely scenerio would be for the debris to punch right through the floor and into the passenger compartment. Not one of the fires resulted in any damage to the passenger compartment of the car which cannot be said for most gasoline car fires I've seen.
Simple Explanation (Score:5, Funny)
Years ago, Tesla, or Nicola Tesla as he was known, sent transmissions from the Wardenclyffe tower into the air, forever altering the electrical potential of earth's ionosphere. This potential remained as it had no path to the ground. Until, that is, cars powered by batteries with his namesake appeared. At night, this leftover induction discharges batteries of the Tesla Model S and will continue until the potential is balanced.
Re: (Score:2)
Now why didn't we learn about that in college?!
Sock Puppets? (Score:3)
cartechboy reports for greencarreports.com, also mentioned in a forum post by ivan@ivanv.com. Could it be an orchestrated campaign? No, impossible!
I too am a vampire?! (Score:5, Funny)
I used to think I'd have to drink blood or something to be a vampire, but no. I've now learned that since my stomach is full when I go to bed, and gets emptier while I sleep, leaving me hungry and in need of a little refuelling in the morning... that makes me a vampire!
Re: (Score:3)
Well, you found yourself here, eh? You're aware Slashdot is a front for vampires anonymous, right? That's why we drum up fear about Zombies as a distraction...
You didn't notice the other symptoms besides Anomalous Cravings? Aversion to sunlight, living in a basement, not bathing in (holy) water.
I mean, you never wondered about that whole shrieking at Cross bearers thing?
This is a known issue (Score:5, Informative)
Tesla Model S uses a proximity sensor to detect the key fob in your pocket and extend the door handle with a motor:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/05/video-sci-fi-wizardry-of-the-tesla-model-s-doors/index.htm [consumerreports.org]
To quote from an article:
"From the instant you walk up to the Tesla S and the door handles motor out of the door, you know this isn't going to be like any other car you've ever driven. You open the door and the air conditioner has fired up, and your music is already playing. You put your foot on the brake, shift into gear, and you are off and running. There is no âoestartâ button. When you arrive, you just get out of the car; it turns itself off and locks up as you leave."
Tesla originally had a sleep mode for the inboard computer that was supposed to consume around 1%/day. But they found that the sleep mode often resulted in the car not detecting the key fob. So they disabled it until they could patch it. Not surprisingly, it sucks a lot of power while its sitting in non-sleep mode waiting for someone to walk by with the right key fob. If they had stuck with a manual door handle and a push start button for the engine, then the idle power issue would never have come up. In any case, Tesla is working on it and will resolved it eventually.
Re: (Score:3)
So to sum up: the car is wasting 190 W continually, simply because Tesla needed it to appear futuristic. Once again, design trumps function :(
Yes, and I'm certain that every Ferrari owner is weeping over the fact that their beautiful car gets horrible gas mileage.
Not quite sure when or where we started believing Tesla was anything but a sports car. Is this an efficiency issue? Perhaps, but at a design cost of doing something no one else does.
In the land of excess, design trumping function is the rule, not the exception.
Fixed in european version (Score:3, Informative)
A word to the wise (Score:3)
If you find your electric car fully discharged in the morning, check for bite marks.
WTF (Score:2, Informative)
This poorly written article is from March. The problem has already been solved. Why I am reading this on slashdot now?
"In other news, George Clooney reports his iPhone 1 had a bug in 2007"
Re: (Score:3)
Did you actually bother to click on the second link [greencarreports.com], written yesterday, which is all about how the problem is still there even after the supposed fixes? Be sure to read the second page too.
RTFM: The onboard computers are running 24/7 (Score:3)
According to the article, Tesla disabled the "sleep" mode of the onboard electronics, because it was buggy. As a result, they are running 24/7. Apparently, Tesla hasn't managed to fix the bugs with the sleep mode yet.
This is a perfectly explainable problem - no need to go all vampiric about it. It's a software (or possibly firmware) problem that they will undoubtedly sort soon enough.
Re:RTFM: The onboard computers are running 24/7 (Score:4, Interesting)
The last software update (5.8) has improved things. From what I understand, power management with the Tegra 3 processor which is what the touch screen uses is rather broken. I talked with at least one developer who said that his company abandoned the Tegra 3 due to nVidia's horrible software management, providing non-working build environments and whatnot and that they don't give a changelog or seem to do any sort of version control.
Short time (Score:2)
Nine months is an *extremly short* round trip time in the car industry is a problem does not threaten the safety but involves controllers which probably affect the safety. (imagine fixing this bug, but introducing a side effect which turns the power off at full speed on the Highway)
OTOH it should not have happened at all.
Re:The only fix for vampire draw (Score:5, Informative)
RTFA. One of the things the guy tried was to put a current draw device between the wall socket and the car and proved that it hadn't drawn any current overnight and that the power consumed had come from the car's batteries.
Re: The only fix for vampire draw (Score:2, Funny)
simple solution: eat more garlic!
Re:The only fix for vampire draw (Score:5, Informative)
Sometimes the simplest answers indicate someone didn't RTFA.
Re:The only fix for vampire draw (Score:4, Funny)
AKA Dracula, so the summary is right. He has issues with waking up during the day, and thus cannot sleep at night. Finally, the metaphor has been explained!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It is slightly different in that Tesla cars are a lot more energy efficient than gas driven cars.
That is, it isn't a simple matter of transferring the energy from the power company to the car instead of getting it from the pump, rather the car itself uses less energy period. This is mostly a result of combustion engines wasting most of their energy towards producing heat rather than actually putting the car in motion (Hybrids are also guilty here - their main saving grace is that energy production is at mor
Re:The only fix for vampire draw (Score:5, Insightful)
This is ridiculous. How would this be in anyway have a basis for a lawsuit? Unless it is explicitly denied and hidden by the maker, which it isn't, why would you even consider that?
How about your TV. It also uses power while off... should we sue there? Your phone? Your laptop? How about your (traditional) car? It also slowly drains its battery while its parked in the garage... and I bet the car makers don't even recognize it officially. Should we sue?
Re:The only fix for vampire draw (Score:5, Funny)
In America, you have a warning sticker for that.
In Europe, we have common sense for that.
Re:The only fix for vampire draw (Score:5, Funny)
In America, you have a warning sticker for that.
In Europe, we have common sense for that.
In California, you may get cancer from that.
Re:The only fix for vampire draw (Score:5, Funny)
Shit. They have the Daily Mail in California too? I thought only us Brits had to put up with it [anorak.co.uk]
Re:The only fix for vampire draw (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You have to experience it first-hand to get it -- when you're outside the US it has no meaning. Then when you're in the US, at first, it's just like a bag of cement mix that has no warnings except in the "state of California" section, and it's a bit weird. When you finally visit the state and walk into a giant building (that is just like a train station or something) and the doors have a "this building contains materials that are known by the state of California to potentially cause cancer", it's just rid
Re: (Score:3)
I live in California, and after a very short period of time, those signs just become ignored background noise.
In fact, I can't even remember what one looks like, that's how much I've been trained to ignore them.
Those sorts of warning labels are more than useless: They're actually counterproductive.
Re: (Score:3)
I'm still waiting for the baloon-supported sun shade with covering the entirety of the bay area (with appropriate cut-outs around airports) painted with a huge pro0 65 warning.
Re: (Score:3)
A full and complete list of ingredients in products is not ot be mistaken with a warning label. For some persons, such as those who have intolerance to specific additives such as colouring or conservatives, this information is very important and useful.
Re: (Score:2)
Tesla advertised their car to owners as actually having the much lower levels of power usage it would have if the standby functionality was working corrrectly. They completely neglected to mention that it wasn't functioning and that the car used far more power when not in use than they were claiming. It's no different from advertising a TV as having ultra-low standby power usage when in fact the manufacturer knew it would draw far more power.
Re: (Score:3)
I dont know but having read TFA it seems there is more involved than you imply. The original models did not have this problem. The rev1 software would suspend when the car was off and power usage overnight was truly negligible.
It had other problems though. And the fix was a revision to turn off the power management. Several revs later they are still only partially succesful in re-implementing power management without causing more serious problems elsewhere. Sounds to me like the made the attractive but dang
Re:The only fix for vampire draw (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't need the touchscreen, the nav system, the multi-zone climate control, the internet connection, any of that stuff. I need the car to be comfortable, to work when I get in to drive, and to function properly.
And for those who'll argue, "but it's a luxury car! It has to have the electronics," I counter bullshit. My expensive bed doesn't have electronics, neither does my whirlpool bathtub, or my wetbar, or any of a huge number of other luxuries that I have afforded myself over the years. It needs to be simple, elegant, and to always work. It can be wrapped in expensive leather and finished with exotic wood and given the best comforting suspension and sound-insulated to almost silly levels without a single bit of electronics.
If the electronics compromise the basic function of the car then some serious reconsideration needs to be made for their inclusion.
Re: (Score:3)
In the case of the Tesla, people are buying it, in part, for those extras. Sure, they might be able to market a bare bones model of the Tesla but it won't sell well because the price and reliability won't be lowered by enough to make it worthwhile to take the bare bones model over the luxury model.
Exactly. Think about it: who the hell is going to pay $90-100k for an electric car that has all the creature comforts of a $12k econobox? Sure, you might save $5-10k by leaving out those things on the Tesla, but
Re: The only fix for vampire draw (Score:3)
Re: The only fix for vampire draw (Score:5, Informative)
how about you simply don't plug it in unless you want to charge it? Duh!!!
Then the battery will discharge, about 5% of a full charge per day. Not leaving it on the charger just means more charge/discharge cycles for the battery.
Re: (Score:3)
Then the battery will discharge, about 5% of a full charge per day.
OUCH. .5 watt or less when 'off' to receive energy ratings
60 kwh*5% = 3kwh/day. That's 125 watts, just standing by. As a contrast, most products [wikipedia.org] produced today are limited to
The article itself mentions it's 4.5kwh/188 watts, which is 7.5% a day, not 5%. But that's even worse. :(
Re: The only fix for vampire draw (Score:4, Insightful)
My Sony compact audio system uses about 30W while off. My cable box uses about 20, with 10% more if it's on.
Re: The only fix for vampire draw (Score:4, Interesting)
My Sony compact audio system uses about 30W while off. My cable box uses about 20, with 10% more if it's on.
Wow, that's a huge amount! My electricity supplier sent me a watt-meter because the government required them to do things to reduce consumption. Almost all appliances use only 1-2W if left on standby, the exceptions are the Wii (15W), the microwave (a massive 50W) and the desktop computers (5-10W).
We unplug/switch off at the mains* [wikipedia.org] the Wii and microwave, which are rarely used anyway, and I switch off my own computer. Together this will saves about £80 over a year (65W * 1 year = 560kWh at £0.13/kWh, yet annual usage for the last 12 months was 2600kWh).
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
One of my customers had a lightning strike at his house. It fried his computer, even with a UPS that gave its own life trying to save it. The weird part was that the energy of the strike also blew an 8 by 8 inch ceramic tile out of the living room floor and imbedded it into the ceiling above.
The point is, simply unplugging electronics doesn't guarantee they won't be damaged by massive energy spikes.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
All updates must be authorized by the owner. When I got the 5.8 update it gave me an option to install it and choose when to install it.
Re: (Score:3)
I'll be surprised if in ten years nearly all new cars aren't fully electric.
I'll be surprised if, as more and more people adopt electric cars, at some point there won't be massive power grid failures on a regular basis. It isn't designed for that sort of load - I'm talking millions of people going back home after work and plugging in their power-hungry cars at roughly the same time every day, on top of the domestic spikes power companies already have trouble coping with during cold snaps.
Re: (Score:2)
and plugging in their power-hungry cars at roughly the same time every day
Into a circuit that should be running on an off-peak tariff.The power company can control them remotely.... which makes this not really that much of a hassle.
I wouldn't be suprised if they invent an 'electric vehicle' tariff that gives you enough charging time and them enough flexibility to switch it as needed. Cheaper for you, easier for them - everyone wins!
Re: (Score:2)
It's not like everyone buys an electric car all at once. The grid will have plenty of time to adapt. Also, by then the power companies will be able to control when the cars charge and how fast when charging at night. Also, at night the power companies have a huge excess supply since most power generators can't ramp up and down quickly with demand. That's why I get very cheap rates when I start charging at 11pm.
Re: (Score:2)
I certainly would be surprised if in 10 years all new cars were fully electric, as there are huge demographics of car owner who simply cannot own an electric car.
I live on a typical British Victorian workers housing road - terrace housing both sides, no off road parking, a pavement between the house and the car, and absolutely no guarantee that you can park your car outside your house anyway. There is no way I can charge any electric vehicle in that situation, and neither can anyone else on the street. An
Re: (Score:3)
I live in the UK and, while I concur with both your premise and your overall conclusion, I have other problems.
Electric cars, for instance, are just too damn expensive. I priced up an all-electric "motorbike" (really a moped). Sure, the pence per mile is ridiculously low. I drive an AWFUL lot, more than anyone I know (and my dad drives the pub circuit around London making deliveries). And yet I did the maths and still couldn't make it cheaper than a cheap second-hand car and petrol at double the current
Re: (Score:2)
....it's a bad joke...c'mon laugh!