Microsoft Working On "Surface 2" Tablet 192
A reader snips this news from Tech Radar: "The Surface tablets that Microsoft will start selling on 26 October at Microsoft Stores (and in temporary 'holiday stores' in twelve US cities including New York) are only the first of a planned family of Windows devices and Surface 2.0 is already under development. Although Microsoft corporate communications chief Frank Shaw said recently that calling Surface 'our new family of PCs built to be the ultimate stage for Windows' was no more than 'literary licence' and that there was nothing more than the two tablets already announced, the Surface team is 'currently building the next generation' of 'devices that fully express the Windows vision' — according to more than a dozen job adverts posted on the Microsoft Careers site between June and August."
Building the microsoft vision (Score:5, Informative)
'currently building the next generation' of 'devices that fully express the Windows vision'
The Windows vision is to make Microsoft money. They have no clue how they'll do it, but they're going to try.
Re:Building the microsoft vision (Score:4, Insightful)
Obviously they'll take share and make money by making Windows not work as well on the hardware of their OEM competitors. That won't be hard to do as they must write the drivers for the hardware - the OEMs can't - and these days they're streaming updates so they can make your Dell PC gradually progressively worse instead of waiting for a new Windows version. This has been their go-to strategy with software competitors since, I think, 1986.
Just in case you're going to get all [citation needed] on me... Here's Microsoft's internal communications about doing this to Novell [groklaw.net] and here is the painful Novell internal emails about how Outlook 95 broke email on install for users Novell's GroupWise [groklaw.net]. These are just two recently transcribed documents of 3,600 from the Comes v. Microsoft case that was settled just a few days after the plaintiff put the documents up on their website because Microsoft failed to seal them - and they are all very, very bad. Fortunately some thoughtful people archived them.
OEMs have always known that Microsoft did this to software vendors, and they looked away because they were getting theirs. Lotus, Borland, Aldus, Ashton-Tate and many others fell the same way. Well now it's the OEMs turn to play Microsoftball blindfolded and with their legs hobbled, giving their competitor an advanced look at their strategy.
Re:Building the microsoft vision (Score:5, Insightful)
Why is this being moderated Troll?
This is exactly what Microsoft do. They have always tried to make subtle incompatibilities for competitors products.
Java, Secure Boot, OOXML, H264, their ACPI trickery, Mono/Silverlight and so on ad nauseum.
Even Microsoft knows they're an unreliable business partner. This is from their SEC filing: "...our Surface devices will compete with products made by our OEM partners, which may affect their commitment to our platform." "Users may increasingly turn to these [mobile] devices to perform functions that would have been performed by personal computers in the past," "Even if many users view these devices as complementary to a personal computer, the prevalence of these devices may make it more difficult to attract applications developers to our platforms."
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This is supposed to happen. The mods are going to go back and forth on this one for a while. Don't worry about me: I have infinite Karma. I can bear it - I do this all the time. I'm actually a honeypot the admins use to detect moderation abuse, among other things. Only the noob astroturfers try that now and they immediately lose their mod privileges and get their IP address flagged for monitoring.
It's working. Don't mess with it.
/Q: Do people lie on the Internet?
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+1 true dat
chores,
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
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Google will lock down Android and they and Apple will control mobile with an iron hand,
Oh dear, credibility is so hard to come by and so easy to shed.
Android is open source, and Google is opening code releases faster with each version. They may be tightening controls on their repository to combat malware, but the OS is free and staying that way.
http://source.android.com/ [android.com]
Android share of the smartphone market is around 60%, roughly double that of Apple. Apple may have an "Iron hand", but that just means the more they tighten their grip, the more market share will slip through their fingers.
htt [amazonaws.com]
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I often wondered why the telcos don't pass on their cost by rolling it into the subscription charges.
Now I know why. There's no cost, because the service providers get them for nothing with free express unicorn delivery.
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I often wondered why the telcos don't pass on their cost by rolling it into the subscription charges.
Because if they did that, it would have to be a line item that they charged you for on the bill. And then, after the "contract period" expired, they wouldn't have grounds to continue charging you the same price, in spite of the fact that you "repaid" the subsidy a long, long time ago.
Another DeVry MBA (Score:3)
Really?
When you buy a beer is there a line item for electricity, another for glasswashing detergent, another for depreciation of the stool you're sitting on?
Not unless you're on Ryanair.
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When you buy a beer is there a line item for electricity, another for glasswashing detergent, another for depreciation of the stool you're sitting on?
Of course! It was the only way I could get the seat at the bar for free, rather than buying it outright for $699.
It was all covered in the contract that they printed out on the receipt paper.
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Iron hand or iron hoof [urbandictionary.com]?
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Dude - you are a supreme troll for trotting out that graph. I mean, can you even read the damn thing? Are you capable of objective thinking?
ICP has hitting the OEM rollout over the last few months and everyone and their brother is holding their breath for iPhone 5 -- It should be out this fall. So it only goes that the sales numbers will decline, it's SV tradition -- just look to the Osbourne.
Paste that graph again in November and talk to us then about how the Smartphone Market is slipping through Apple's "
Re:Building the microsoft vision (Score:5, Insightful)
Wow that's a thoughtful, complex post. Let's deal with these issues one at a time.
Para 1: Bill is gone. Bill Gates remains the chairman of the board at Microsoft [microsoft.com], and hand-picked all the other board members - who pick the CEO and evaluate his performance, give him goals and guidance, set his pay, bonuses and options, and set policy. Bill is still very much responsible for what goes on there, and weighs in on every big decision.
Para 2: Steve Ballmer. You neglected to mention the sea of red ink [businessinsider.com] that is Microsoft's Online Services Division. I happen to like the direction Steve Ballmer is taking Microsoft. Clearly this is a man with vision [youtube.com] and purpose who is ready and able to take the company where I want it to go. It takes Marvel Comics level superpowers to get rid of this much cash flow, to destroy a 42 percent success in mobile market share from 2007 [wikipedia.org] given their advantages and high hopes [macdailynews.com], to so capably destroy the morale and productivity [slashdot.org] of the world's best developers, to put a company with this much income in $55B of debt [google.com]. So let's lay off of Steve-o, mmkay? I like him where he is, sweaty shirt and all.
Para 3: No more Big, Bad MS. With the OOXML debacle [groklaw.net] that nearly ruined ISO, their recent rape of Nokia [blogs.com], their current ongoing rape of OEMs [computerworld.com], retail vendors [zdnet.com] of both their products and Windows PCs, their planned rape of software distributor partners [cnn.com], developers and competing independent software vendors and much much more they prove every day that they have not changed. Last week they confirmed they're going to murder the advertisers they bought relationships with in an acquisition by making "Do Not Track" the default [arstechnica.com] in IE. Just yesterday [pcworld.com] it came out that the new replacement for Hotmail, Outlook.com is incompatible with Android. The "new kinder, gentler Microsoft" is a myth. They have now declared war on absolutely everybody on Earth, including the people who pay for their products and excepting only the Women's Temperance Union [wikipedia.org] and media executives [wikipedia.org]. Naturally this means I expect them to announce an embedded bittorent feature for IE that involves a drinking game next.
Para 4. Ballmer outbound. Steve Ballmer is not retiring for another seven years at least, when his last kid goes off to college [informationweek.com].
Para 5. Immortal desktop victory. It's not enough to take ground. Once you take ground, you have to hold it. MS won mobile with 40% share too [link above], once upon a time. And now they'r
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You had me up until that point.
Nice one, sir.
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Obviously they'll take share and make money by making Windows not work as well on the hardware of their OEM competitors.
At least they still allow Windows to run on third-party hardware. Their major competitor in the tablet market, and second largest vendor of PCs and laptops, is not so generous. Yet no-one complains about that...
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Re:Building the microsoft vision (Score:4, Interesting)
Windows is one of the only things that actually brings Microsoft profit.
And do you think it will continue to do so on the tablet? There is nothing about Microsoft Tablet that says, "yes, people will by this in hoards." Who do you know that is planning on standing in line on the release day for a Microsoft Tablet?
Re:Building the microsoft vision (Score:5, Insightful)
There is nothing about Microsoft Tablet that says
True, but the plan of developing software, prototyping hardware and hoping the 3rd party manufacturers would make something materialize that was worth buying didn't work, and they tried that plan for 10 years.
Trying something else may not go anywhere either. But clearly the last plan didn't work, and somehow android has been adopted for slate form factors even though no one ever tried that with windows, when it could have been tried* years before the iPad. I suspect this is microsofts way of negotiating with it's hardware providers, they better get off their collective arses and start at least trying different things, or microsoft will.
*caveats. Yes they had convertible tablets, I've owned several over the years and they worked quite well for a lot of things. And yes, they had slate form prototypes in what, 2002, but no one tried to market those for whatever reason.
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FTFY.
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Because that's what Microsoft stores have become, a babysitting shop. They tend to have a lot of people, but look around, they majority tend to be people with kids. And those kids want to play the X-boxes, though maybe not buy them. And the parents look trashy because, well, they don't care what people think about them anymore. Which is a good thing.
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How's the OP a racist? He / she gave it to pretty much all the races equally. Of course, he forgot to mention the dirty Spics or the haughty Heebs.
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No, but if they make a nice dramatic price drop, it might do the trick.
This is what kind of tablet $41 buys you right now in China:
7" 1.2GHz Allwinner A13 Q88 tablet, 5 point capacitive Screen, Android 4.0, 512MB RAM, 4GB Storage, Webcam, Wifi
http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/611000195-7-Allwinner-A13-Q88-tablet-pc-5-point-capacitive-Screen-android-4-0-Multi-Touch-1-wholesalers.html [aliexpress.com]
How much margin do you think there'd be for Windows OS on hardware like that?
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Geez, what do you think that lame tablet can do? Let's review what a real OS needs, from the Windows XP spec [microsoft.com]:
Pentium 233-megahertz (MHz) processor or faster (300 MHz is recommended)
At least 64 megabytes (MB) of RAM (128 MB is recommended)
At least 1.5 gigabytes (GB) of available space on the hard disk
CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive
Keyboard and a Microsoft Mouse or some other compatible pointing device
Video adapter and monitor with Super VGA (800 x 600)or higher resolution
Sound card
Speakers or headphones
Oh m
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I have one in my hands right now. It's a reasonable machine, certainly usable for web browsing, Facebook, email, Skype etc. Pretty much what most people use their computers for.
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There is no way that they will sell this product for less than the entry-level iPad. First, they don't have the volume to get the parts any cheaper than Apple does. Second, pricing something too cheaply influences the buyer into thinking they are getting a shitty product.
Why is this news? (Score:5, Insightful)
Surface 1 is done. Of course they are working on Surface 2 and maybe even Surface 3.
In other news, Apple is working on iPhone 6.
Samsung is working on Galaxy S4.
And so on...
Re:Why is this news? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Why is this news? (Score:5, Funny)
Who wants to wait that long? Surface 3.11 for Workgroups is when I'll buy.
Re:Why is this news? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Hey, it works for Apple.
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Apple will formally announce and show off a new version when it's ready, and usually has it available in the shops the next day. Everything else is just rumours, but it continues to surprise me how much Apple lives up to the rumours. They live up more to unofficial rumours, than MS lives up to their own pre-product announcements.
Everybody knows a company will not stop developing when a product is out. But announcing and starting to show off a successor changes the game a lot, as it gives people something co
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On the contrary. Apple didn't do as well this past quarter than expected. They attributed it to anticipation for the iPhone 5.
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Okay, so it worked for Steve then. ~
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How is marketing involved in an employment ad for an engineer?
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It's news because it indicates that Microsoft's marketing department does not know of Osborne Computer
RTFA : the "information" does not come from PR, but from HR through job adverts.
And I don't think that the potential existence of Surface 2 might refrain people from buying Surface 1 : at least, it shows that Microsoft is a bit committed and not just simply testing the market...
Surface 2 -- Zune's Revenge! (Score:4, Funny)
Coming soon to a Marked Down bin near the check-out counter near you!
It sucks to be a Windows OEM right now (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, a more accurate statement would probably be "it sucks to own stock in a Windows OEM right now". It's pretty obvious Microsoft intends to emulate Apple; and, if everything goes according to plan, the OEMs will all shrivel up and die.
On the bright side, Microsoft may fail.
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I know Ballmer is known to shoot a toe once in a while but I doubt he's dumb enough to blow both his legs clean off.
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It's pretty obvious Microsoft intends to emulate Apple
Not very well. Have you ever heard Apple discussing the next version of their product before the current version ships? No, Apple is much too smart to do that. Every new Apple product is the greatest thing ever and all focus is on that greatness and how everyone needs to get that greatness now. Even as the last product ages and it becomes clear to everyone that Apple must be getting close to releasing the next version, they keep it mum until they can announce it with huge fanfare as the new greatest thi
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I think this has a lot to do with FUD no longer working so well for Microsoft. There was a time when they just had to annouce that they were planning to develop something along the lines of XY and everybody in the market for XY got scared shitless. Competitors stopped actual development on their version of XY (because if MS was developing it, they had no chance) and customers would wait for MSs version of XY because it would become the standard. This worked well for a very long time.
No longer. It seems that
Re:It sucks to be a Windows OEM right now (Score:5, Insightful)
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Especially if Microsoft sells them at or below cost so as to get people interested kind of like amazons does with their kindles and kindle fire expecting people to spend money on apps and make up their profit there.
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MS doesn't have anything like an app market, like Amazon has a book store.
The product of Amazon is book sales; the Kindle is their vehicle to stimulate those sales. I don't see anything Microsoft has that they could sell though the Surface tablet.
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Osbourne Effect (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not buying a Surface 1.0.
I'll wait for the Surface 2.0 instead.
--
"The name comes from the planned replacement of the Osborne 1 computer. In 1983 founder Adam Osborne pre-announced several next-generation computer models (the "Executive" and "Vixen" models), which had not yet been built, highlighting the fact that they would outperform the existing model. A widely-held belief was that sales of the Osborne 1 fell sharply as customers anticipated those more advanced systems, and dealers cancelled orders." And the company went bankrupt.
Other examples:
"In 1978, North Star Computers announced a new version of their floppy disk controller, which had double the capacity, to be sold at the same price as their existing range. Sales of the existing products plummeted and the company almost went bankrupt."
"When Sega began publicly discussing their next-generation system, barely two years after launching the Saturn, it became a self-defeating prophecy. This move, combined with Sega's recent history of short-lived consoles, led to a chain reaction that quickly caused the Saturn's future to collapse. Immediately following the announcement, sales of the console and software substantially tapered off in the second half of 1997, while many planned games were canceled, causing the console's life expectancy to shorten substantially."
Re:Osbourne Effect (Score:4, Insightful)
Really, they need to be more tight lipped. One of Apple's points is that they don't leak, so they don't lose sales "waiting". You can't "go back" and get money customers didn't spend this quarter... It's gone. People that wait generally didn't keep the money handy, so they don't buy "more".
Apple is already citing that as a reason for diminished quarter... Because everybody KNOWS we get a new iPhone, iPad, iPod each year.
The obvious question is that if Surface 1.0 isn't released, why are they working on 2.0? Microsoft hasn't released ANY Surface yet... Stop assuming anybody will care about the NEXT one... Or worse, what features are they going to leave OUT? This becomes like iOS updates where people get upset when only this YEAR's model gets all the new features.
Re:Osbourne Effect (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple might not leak, but is it really surprising that any company is working on "the next version"?
What company in their right mind would put out a device and say "yep, I think we'll just stop developing anything further for the next 5 years while we sell this one."
The only thing that needs to be held under wraps is potential release dates.
Re:Osbourne Effect (Score:4, Interesting)
Windows XP?
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you posted it before i could
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It works for the games consoles...
Case of the Vapours (Score:2)
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Really, they need to be more tight lipped. One of Apple's points is that they don't leak, so they don't lose sales "waiting".
By now, everybody knows that iPhone and iPad get refreshed in one year cycles. The only thing you don't know in advance is what, exactly, will change in the next version. But then you don't know this here, either.
The obvious question is that if Surface 1.0 isn't released, why are they working on 2.0?
Because there is enough manpower to work on both?
Stop assuming anybody will care about the NEXT one
They call it a "bet". If you bet right, you can sometimes get a pretty spectacular pay-iff.
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By now, everybody knows that iPhone and iPad get refreshed in one year cycles. The only thing you don't know in advance is what, exactly, will change in the next version. But then you don't know this here, either.
Apple has been pretty consistent in ensuring that at least two devices into the past are supported. This means that even if you buy the previous version of an iPad around when the new one is launched, or even up to a year later, you can be pretty sure that you will be looked after for most of the lifetime of your device. One of the biggest problems with Android devices and the best reason to buy a Nexus is that only Google has been similarly reliable with future support. Microsoft, on the other hand has
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Most likely either x86 or ARM will be killed. There's no way that such a tiny ecosystem can support the level of fragmentation which two processor architectures with totally different power characteristics suggest.
Why, if that level of fragmentation is largely transparent to both the users and the developers?
The "totally different power characteristics" argument is also bogus. Did you miss Android phones running on x86 (Medfield), showing battery life pretty much in line with ARM? And Clover Field, which is specifically Intel's answer to ARM in tablets (Android and Win8 both).
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They did the same with their phones:
http://mashable.com/2012/06/25/lumia-why-no-upgrade/ [mashable.com]
Release v7 phones then announce that they won't be able to work on v8 phones.
Guess it's a bit like their close partner Nokia, with the famous Burning Platform memo:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/08/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-rallies-troops-in-brutally-honest-burnin/ [engadget.com]
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Guess it's a bit like their close partner Nokia, with the famous Burning Platform memo
Maybe I'm just not boardroom savvy enough to comprehend the subtle inticracies of an executive master plan but what the hell was Elop thinking? They could have done any number of things to slowly build up excitement for their Windows Phones without taking the excruciatingly and so obviously disastrous step of Osbourning their still profitable at the time Symbian business. He had to know they were going to still support the Symbian handsets for years down the road. There was the PureView that was in the l
Re:Osbourne Effect (Score:4, Informative)
What do you mean what was he thinking? It's obvious to everybody that he's a torpedo executive sent to sink the Nokia ship. In that sense he is exceeding all expectations!
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I mean, what the fuck was the point of that?
Remember, even in a private company, the CEO doesn't have full decision power. The board can effectively overrule him and he can't get rid of the people under him or fully control them without the board's support. A number of those people probably looked at Microsoft's history in mobile ( Microsoft's market share has continually declined overall in mobile [wmpoweruser.com] having previously been in double digits) and foresaw disaster.
Elop was setting out to destroy the power base of people who might try to push for backup
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what was he thinking? he was making public moves to ensure that n9 would tank and that symbian would tank faster than it would(they still sold more symbians than wp's in last quarter, mind you, and were selling symbians more than ever when he made the speech). that way he made sure he could override the board and internal advisors on what to use the marketing budget for(essentially for a product they weren't even shipping yet, funny that).
have you ever seen elop hype up any product that wasn't ms based? hel
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Particularly given that they INTENTIONALLY and KNOWINGLY left Windows Phone 7 folk in a lurch with Windows Phone 8...
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That's very courageous of you. Me, I'm waiting for Surface 3.11!
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I wouldn't be surprised if this is exactly why Slashdot posted this article. Every company with a serious product is obviously going to be developing future versions, this really isn't news, but there's nothing like trying to amplify the message and pretend it's journalism anyway.
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Hey dumbass! You didn't see the quotation marks?
It's an interesting thought that you are totally right. If I see a quote in quotation marks without an attribution I immediately know that it's from Wikipedia. That is an amazing level of cultural power when you can start to change the rules of grammar and citation.
It'll all end in tears. (Score:5, Insightful)
Or more likely, end in mediocrity.
Alpha release (Score:4, Informative)
They have not yet released version 1.0.
They didn't let reviewers at their media event actually use it.
They're already announcing version 2.0.
Me thinks v1.0 was the alpha to test the waters and they found serious problems.
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"You will love it. That wasn't an observation, nor was it a request."
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The was no announcement of 2.0, this is only speculation. However, as others have observed, in the tech industry they're always working on 2.0.
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The was no announcement of 2.0, this is only speculation.
Precisely. So they announce rumors for what isn't announced while they don't sell what isn't available. v1.0 may never make it to actual consumer hands - Microsoft has done that before. Meanwhile they'll either drop it saying the market isn't there (as demonstrated by the totally failed iPad, iPhone, iPod) or they'll bring out 2.0 and call it 1.x or just change the name. Microsoft's afraid to get in the water.
The Surface 2... (Score:3)
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Bitch please, Surface 3.11 for workgroups.
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Hmm. Good point.
More vaporware from Microsoft... (Score:2)
Re:More vaporware from Microsoft... (Score:5, Insightful)
They can certainly freeze the Windows tablet market...
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Totally agreed. They probably did so already. If I were to consider to buy a Windows based tablet, I'd be waiting for the Surface (in a parallel universe or so, you never know, in this universe I'm not even considering to buy a tablet to begin with).
And even in this universe, I'm interested in it. Not to buy, just normal curiousity. The specs are very interesting, the form factor is different from anything else currently on the markt. That's interesting.
Osborne effect ? (Score:2)
So What (Score:2)
...and Apple is working on the iPad X, Samsung is working on their Galaxy Y and (name your vendor) is working on their (name their tablet) Z.
How is this news?
The name "Surface" (Score:2)
..is already taken - we'll be calling it the "Next Tablet Microsoft will Release" Tablet.
it al boils down to apps and developers (Score:2)
This means easy-peasey dev environments (on the production end) and a clean, clear, and wildly easy way for users to get the apps. (on the consumption end).
Also, this tablet had damn well better be cheaper than the iPad.
It's not impossible for all this to happen - but if it's cheaper for me to get a small laptop that has more memory and more power than a datap
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You left-out Amiga OS.
I'm waiting for the Apple iPhone 5 to be released rather than buy one now. (I'm hoping the 4 will drop to ~$400 in price.)
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i only count os's that actually have had releases in the last decade
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To me, it seems to be a giant detour to convince us to use only "Trusted" computing. Tablets are computers, only artificially limited and overpriced. We (consumers) are footing the bill for a future where all platforms will be walled garden monopolies. If you like it, kudos to you. I am not touching closed system with a 10 miles pole as I do not want my children to live in a world where computing is limited and watered down.
Simple user interfaces have a place, but why insisting on getting down the throat o
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Why do you want x86 on a tablet if you don't want Windows?
If you want to run Linux well there's already Android on Atom and other processors.
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Real linux on an x86 tablet would be nice.
Linux on ARM is real Linux.
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I'm not knocking linux on ARM - I bought a phone with that.
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But it's not stuck with Win8. You'd have to buy it with Win8, but - since it is an Intel device, and therefore UEFI secure boot can be disabled on it - you could put whatever you want on it.
Like Ubuntu with Unity. Or Fedora with Gnome 3. ~
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Because Microsoft has been previously found to be a monopolist specifically in the area of "Intel based personal computers", so any further move in that area is subject to anti-trust scrutiny.
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Reminds me of how the news covers a high-profile trial. "THIS JUST IN! The judge sat down." then "BREAKING NEWS: the prosecutor called a witness!" then "ANOTHER UPDATE: the defense called a witness". then "MORE BREAKING NEWS: Prosecutor says suspect is guilty." "EXCLUSIVE NEW INFO: Defense attorney says accused is innocent." "YET MORE NEWS: the witness sneezed and had to get a tissue." This goes on for days and days and weeks and weeks. Sometimes months.
I wish they'd just shut the fuck up until it's all over and a verdict has been reached, then report on that. Once. If I missed it and it's important to me then I can Google the story later. Quit pretending this minutia is exciting. It isn't, unless you have no life, no significant other, no friends, no meaningful work, and no hobbies. Then the constant micro-updates might be a big deal to you but I wouldn't exactly call that a good thing.
That's what these constant not-yet-released product updates are like.
Aha! Well.. this behavior is profitable for both news companies and software companies, it is some kind of symbiotic relationship. So yeah, we will have to live with it :)