Microsoft Surface, Meet Apple iSurface 201
theodp writes "Responding to Microsoft's Windows 8 efforts, Apple CEO Tim Cook insisted in late April that combining a tablet and a notebook would be like converging a toaster and a refrigerator. But a patent application submitted by Apple last year — and made public Tuesday morning — proposes marrying a tablet and a keyboard to create 'a true laptop alternative,' which GeekWire notes looks a lot like Microsoft Surface (comparison pic). In its patent filing, Apple describes various ways that a tablet's cover could be used as an I-O device — as a tactile-feedback keyboard ('word processing and email become much more efficient'), to display additional output, as a touchpad replacement, and even to receive stylus input. 'The experience,' claims Apple, 'is even better in some ways than the laptop experience.'"
It's a screen with a keyboard... (Score:5, Insightful)
Nothing new here. Move along.
Re:It's a screen with a keyboard... (Score:5, Funny)
Nothing new here. Move along.
But...but...it's an APPLE screen with a keyboard! That mean's it's magical, revolutionary, innovative, wonderful, stunning, and powerful! Why do you hate magic?
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Are you kidding? You've never been in a room full of hipster Apple fanboys have you? Try hanging out in a coffee shop in Williamsburg Brooklyn. You'll want to kill yourself.
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I don't see a lot of normal people talking in such terms.
Re:It's a screen with a keyboard... (Score:5, Insightful)
People hate Apple for a lot of very good reasons. Abuse of the legal and patent systems, pretending to be police, locked systems and markets, proprietary connectors, proprietary protocols, greed, and general corporate dickishness. The blind followers tend to be fairly annoying, as well as those who recognize most of these points, but still buy their products, ignoring that in the long run the direction that Apple is taking is bad for everyone but Apple. I wish more people 'hated' Apple; they might take notice and change their ways.
Re:It's a screen with a keyboard... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yeah, it's sad. I'd buy one in a second if everything else about the company wasn't so bad. I'm hoping this shows other manufacturers that it's worth it to make them and the price of those screens is driven down a bit.
Re:It's a screen with a keyboard... (Score:5, Insightful)
You obviously didn't look very hard, I've seen hi-res Thinkpads, Dells and Sonys. Of course, it isn't in the general consumer stuff, but rather in the high end. IMHO 1920x1080 on a 15" screen is dense enough dpi beyond which it doesn't make a difference... and beyond that the graphics power needed to push around all of those extra pixels gets unreasonable for the marginal benefit gained.
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I think this is the big problem. Most Apple fans I know don't even bother to look at what the competition has to offer. It's one thing to be loyal. It's something else to be oblivious.
I used to work in a small camera store. I noticed very quickly that every person who came into our store felt they were really smart for paying a premium and getting their supplies from us rather than Wal-Mart. However, every one of them was rock stupid and did no research whatsoever, and just bought what we sold them (or
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Exactly. My old HP 8510p has a max res of 1680x1050, but I run it in 1280x800, because stuff is just too small otherwise. :)
The real issue with non-Apple laptop screens is the utter inconsistency of quality. Some have LG screens, some have cheaper ones that look shite and "crystally". When I was this 8510 in the showroom, it had an awesome LCD which looked perfect at any resolution. Bought one, got it home and it had a cheap LCD which looked awful. Went back and swapped it for the showroom one which, it tur
Re:It's a screen with a keyboard... (Score:4, Informative)
Dislike them all you wish, but Sony's VAIO Z has a 1080p screen on a 13.1" body. There's also Samsung's Series 9 ultrabook, 900p in a 13.3" frame.
And then if you want bigger, there's plenty of choice from companies like Sager that offer 1080p on a 15.6" frame.
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The honestly little difference between sony and apple in regards to propietary connectors/corporate bullishit, and everything else mentioned above.
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My ASUS from four years ago has 1920 x 1200, which is plenty of resolution for me. My HP from three years ago has 1650 x 1050 which is also a fine resolution. My ASUS from two years ago has 1920 x 1200 as well...
What exactly was so hard to find for you? Have you heard of NewEgg? It's rather simple to find a device by screen resolution. Just don't go to Best Buy and ask for their cheapest computer(which, at $379, still had bigger than 768 vertical res, Samsung something-or-other).
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Re:It's a screen with a keyboard... (Score:5, Insightful)
Compare this to the HP Envy 15 for instance, which has a 15" screen and a 1920x1080 IPS display. It pretty much matches the specs and ammenities of the Macbook Pro 15", but HP is selling it for only $1250. Dell Also sells 1080p laptops in the XPS line, or even cheaper with the 15R and 17R, which both can be customized with a 1080p display. This isn't even mentioning Sony, Lenovo, Asus, etc. who all offer laptops with 1080p displays. Also keep in mind the only laptop Apple offers with a display at or above 1080p is the Macbook Pro Retina. If you want the highest resolution portable, Apple is your only option, but 1080p on a 15" display is pretty damn good pixel density for most people, and you won't find one of those from Apple for under 2 grand.
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The same applies if you want a high end processor, and SSD, a non-tiny screen, and no optical media. Only now is intel pushing the ultrabooks which might get to a similar point in future, but in the meantime, apple hardware if still pretty unique.
Re:It's a screen with a keyboard... (Score:4, Interesting)
I pretty much agree with you, but I have to point out one thing: There ARE NO "good" companies.
Every time a company did something that pissed me off, I vowed to personally boycott them. As the list grew I eventually realized that my position was untenable because I would reach a point where I couldn't buy anything at all. Furthermore, the average person isn't even remotely as conscientious, so my little personal victories became hollow because they didn't actually amount to anything.
So all I can do now is, when I want to buy a product, I look at the company's behaviour to see if they've actively screwed over their customers. Either by shoddy products, or some other form of dishonest behaviour. I refuse to buy from Sony because they've released rootkits on their CDs, rolled back features on their game consoles, etc. I refuse to buy from Amazon because they have a demonstrated history of take-backsies plus other things.
Apple, at least from the consumer standpoint, have done what they said on the tin. They provide good products, along with downright excellent service. I can buy an iphone now and KNOW that it will be supported 3 or 4 years from now. My Google Nexus One? Dropped like a hot potato less than a year after I bought it.
I used to despise Microsoft with a passion. Now... I just don't care anymore. They make products. I use them or not as I see fit.
I guess this was all a TL;DR version of, "Making an emotional investment, love OR hate, in something that will not reciprocate is pointless and will only hurt you the long run."
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those who recognize most of these points, but still buy their products, ignoring that in the long run the direction that Apple is taking is bad for everyone but Apple.
It has a name: Stockholm Syndrom.
Re:It's a screen with a keyboard... (Score:5, Insightful)
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That may be shocking to you, but the kind of prejudice involved is exactly the same -- people hate a perspective that they've never actually tried to empathize with, and they justify that hate by resorting to straw man fallacies to inaccurately represent the position of the parties that they hate. While in their mind or within their circlejerk that may work, it doesn't stand a chance against anyone who argues rationally.
I post as AC now because Slashdot moderation and post quotas are retarded, making it less efficient to challenge the masses as a registered user, especially if your karma is below 0.
Except you lost all rational argument rights the moment you pulled the whole racism comparison. There is also probably a reason your account's karma dropped below zero.
Personally I have no real problem with Apple that I don't have with a lot of other large corporations. I also think their products are greatly overrated, and I find the antics of their fanbois (any fanbois really, not just Apple specific) to be childish and hilarious. At least you tried to cover your own bias with a pseudo rational respons
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I post as AC now because Slashdot moderation and post quotas are retarded, making it less efficient to challenge the masses as a registered user, especially if your karma is below 0.
So working as intended, you mean?
So, I used Apple products, I owned several, I still own a couple, may I dislike their products without offending you now. Or being a Nazi... (wow). You don't see a problem with your racism comparison do you? Racism hurts people, it kills people, it leads to atrocities... Hating Apple products leads to... pretty much nothing. Hating Apple is like hating a flavor of ice-cream or a brand/style of clothing. It isn't a big deal, and no one but over-invested zealots give t
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you have the prejudice to assume or dislike for Apple is a prejudice.
so you're a racist too.
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dufuq did I just read? How can anyone compare hating Apple to Racism? I really don't like Apple stuff, but I have a reason. I have how overpriced it is, I hate how locked down it is, I hate how Apple abuses the legal system like suing everyone and the time they had people pose as cops. Mostly I hate having to use iTunes to sync any music/video to the player as I don't want to have to sort through my full library just to add a few songs because doing it that way is way slower and less covenant then just copy
Re:It's a screen with a keyboard... (Score:5, Insightful)
Man, no offense, but you REALLY need to lay off the Kool-Aid. Steve has been dead for a while. Makes me wonder how long it will take the reality distortion field to finally fade.
They're a corporation. Their goal is to make money. They're not your friend, nor your daddy. And they are MOST CERTAINLY not a civil rights cause that needs your defense. They make products, not dreams.
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All companies that build platforms do that.
Who? Almost all of the things on my PC are from 3rd party vendors. It is trivial to instal almost any file I find on the internet on my two Android products, indeed I have purchases from alternative app stores, as well as installers found floating about in the wild. I suppose most of the files on my Linux box are from a single source, but that is somewhat different (its open, and I'm not actually restricted to using it). The only device I owned that is as locked down as an iOS device was an old dumb-p
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"People hate Apple for the same reason they hate different races and cultures: ignorance, prejudice, bigotry".
Wrong: I dislike (maybe even hate) Apple mainly for having an image that's quite out of synch with reality. Their products are nice to look at, but not very high-quality, not very high-performance, and very very locked down. What also irks me is their undeserved reputation for ease of use (I get lost every time I try to use my brother's Mac), for quality, for good service (see the "we don't have no
Re:It's a screen with a keyboard... (Score:5, Insightful)
If you take that as criteria, there aren't a lot companies that 'innovate' anymore.
So why are we discussing Apple and Microsoft's "tablet with detachable keyboard" instead of Asus Padfone or Ubuntu for Android, both of which are genuinely innovative?
Re:It's a screen with a keyboard... (Score:5, Insightful)
Because this is Slashdot where "editors" rather post "news" that give people their daily "ranting" fix and also because it is commercial interesting. As an editor you know that posting this kinda of articles will get your number of page hits to the roof in no time.
I see it also on other sites where they have a group of followers that have a particularly negative feeling against one of multiple brands and where you can follow some metrics. Post a article of "hated" product X or brand Y and you will see the number of comments come in in a bigger rate then the other articles.
Pro or contra, we are all getting played for commercial motives.
If it would be me we would have less Apple articles, less Microsoft articles, less Raspberry pi advertisement, but more stuff for nerds like the Asus padfone or Ubuntu for Android... .
I don't see a lot of added value of this kind of news where the general discussion that follows how we hate Apple, how we hate Apple users, etc.
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they had over the air updates long before iphone
Payback - you Apple bullies! (Score:5, Funny)
It's payback for all the abuse over the years that us Microsoft lovers had to put up with from the Apple Fanbois ...
Microsoft has a monopoly! The courts said so!
Microsoft controls the PC market and Apple can't get a break!
Microsoft is keeping us down!
Microsoft has cornered the market on clothes forcing us to wear black fake turtle necks!
Microsoft is hurting Jobs!
Microsoft stole everything from Apple!
Microsoft does this!
Microsoft does that!
Microsoft! Microsoft! Microsoft! Microsoft!
Do you know what kind of emotional scaring I have suffered from with all this Microsoft! Hate!! And you have the nerve - the audacity - to complain about Apple Hate?!?
I still cry myself to sleep on occasion after reading Slashdot on my Windows PC! And when I go to get my Windows 8 machine, I'll wear sunglasses, trench coat, and I'll have to fork Firefox so that it always reports that I'm using some sort of Apple OS! Do you realize that?!
Posting as AC because I can't deal with you Apple bullies!
*storms off sobbing*
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Posting as AC because I can't deal with you Apple bullies!
*storms off sobbing*
Damn. Those Microsoft users are a bunch of fags.
(Sorry. Couldn't resist.)
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Oh, the fucking irony.
Re:It's a screen with a keyboard... (Score:5, Funny)
The only ones that talk constant about "magical", "revolutionary", "innovative", ... - with the exception of a marketing movie when a new product has introduced - are people that are riding the iHate wave. I don't see a lot of normal people talking in such terms.
Then you either live in a small pocket of technological illiterati, are legally deaf, or deliberately ignoring it, because I hear that kind of shit all the fucking time out of retards that honestly believe Steve Jobs invented the modern era single-handedly.
How long before this becomes reality? [youtube.com]
Re:It's a screen with a keyboard... (Score:4, Insightful)
Then you should do something about your social situations. Again I never hear "normal" people - and maybe I'm lucky - talk in that way. I say "normal" because I never understood why somebody gets so emotional about a brand
Maybe it is a cultural thing but I really what do you want me to say ? I never heard somebody talk in those terms. That they like Apple products and they swear by them yes. But I have also friends that have that feeling about their Android smartphone, hell I swear by Android for my smartphone... .
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Then you should do something about your social situations.
Among other things, I sell consumer electronics. I will not escape the retards looking to Apple so they can revolutionize the revolution with their revolutionary products, by the grace of Steve Jobs (God's other son), for some time.
It's quite annoying to have to pretend that a potential customer isn't a mouth-breathing moron that, based on their reasoning, is choosing an iDevice solely because their neighbor has one and OMG if they don't get one, too, then he wins whatever fucking competition these idiots
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Exactly, no TRUE Scotsman would talk like that.
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As I said [slashdot.org], part of what I do for a living requires me to deal with these people. I don't much like it, but the paychecks come in handy.
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Same goes for empty hearts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx7v815bYUw [youtube.com]
I'm sure you could do the same with Microsoft and other presentations. I'd love to see it. But still, that doesn't mean Apple isn't full of it.
But then again, "brands" are concepts by and for fucked up people to begin with. Crap in, crap out. Hate is pointless, but shrugging off any and all brands is pretty much a requirement if your mind is to ever leave the purely receptive stage.
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There aren't a lot of companies that "innovate" any more, no matter which criteria you use. There never were. Real innovation is actually pretty rare, always has been.
And there will be fewer and fewer as long as the patent process, and "intellectual property" generally, continue to be abused by companies like Apple.
I've bene
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The only ones that talk constant about "magical", "revolutionary", "innovative", ... - with the exception of a marketing movie when a new product has introduced - are people that are riding the iHate wave.
That is because fanbois are not normal people. I hear those terms used often by Apple fabois (and fangrrls).
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> people that are riding the iHate wave
Yes, yes, of course. "Do as I say, not as I do."
Re:It's a screen with a keyboard... (Score:5, Funny)
Nothing gnu here. Move along.
FTFY
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Nothing gnu here. Move along.
FTFY
Nothing not UNIX - absolutely right! ;-)
Re:It's a screen with a keyboard... (Score:5, Funny)
Ha ha only serious. (Score:3)
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Surface design is radically different from Transformer, though - it doesn't have a strong hinge, the keyboard just flops around. It's why it works as a cover, on one hand (you just fold it back), and why it requires a table to operate, and you need to support the tablet with that stand that folds out from the back. It means that you can't really use the device as you can a laptop, i.e. on the laps.
If you think that Transformer does it right (I do, too), then what you should be looking at are future Asus off
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EEEPC reincarnation
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Re:It's a screen with a keyboard... (Score:5, Informative)
Not sure if MS filed a patent for theirs, and if they did, when.... But apple's isn't a direct response to it.
The surface was supposed to be so ultra top secret that a lot of ms execs didn't know about it until the unveiling (... http://www.bgr.com/2012/06/21/microsoft-surface-apple-like-secrecy/ [bgr.com]) so it's unlikely that apples patent FILED LAST YEAR but only made public on 8/2 is a "copy"
FTA: A patent application submitted by Apple last year — and made public just this morning — describes a flexible, magnetically attached cover for a tablet device. It’s similar to Apple’s existing smart cover for the iPad, except that this cover can also function as an input and display device. And one of the concepts described by Apple in the patent filing is an idea for using the cover as a keyboard.
And if you look at the patent, apples is a display, and writing surface, plus keyboard, whereas the surface is just a keyboard.
See what happens when you read?
Copy Sony again? (Score:5, Interesting)
Is this another case of Apple copying what Sony is doing, but publicising it better?
http://www.xperiablog.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Xperia-Tablet_13.jpg [xperiablog.net]
Re:Copy Sony again? (Score:4, Informative)
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Though I didn't know about the Transformer (and it looks pretty cool), I'd call that more of a dock. :)
Re:Copy Sony again? (Score:5, Informative)
Or the Logitech Ultrathin Keyboard cover [logitech.com], or...
The idea of adding a keyboard to a tablet is hardly Microsoft's invention; Apple released a keyboard dock alongside the first iPad, to say nothing of the old convertible tablet PCs. [wikipedia.org]
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Microsoft's idea is not just adding a keyboard to a tablet. It is about a thin tablet cover which works as a keyboard.
I am not sure how will it perform but I like that you don't need to carry a keyboard.
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There's a few thousand Chinese Android tablet makers who'd like to discuss your idea of Microsoft innovation with you...
Re:Copy Sony again? (Score:5, Insightful)
Or the Asus Transformer http://www.asus.com/Eee/Eee_Pad/Eee_Pad_Transformer_TF101/ [asus.com]
Not "Or", I think ASUS are the one's driving innovation in this space. The EEE pc was a game changing concept that was pretty much subverted into something it wasn't. These Eee pads are certainly a refresh of the concept that includes a pad. I've found it to be a flexible design and I don't think Asus get the credit they deserve.
The concept of a "year of the Linux desktop" is changing to make the desktop irrelevant.
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Well, if iPads win, it'll be more like year of the FreeBSD tablet.
Re:Copy Sony again? (Score:4, Informative)
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I just got the latest Transformer (Infinity). The optional keyboard w/ battery is definitely a great form factor. I believe Lenovo has one coming out and Asus has announced at least one Win8 version.
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I just got the latest Transformer (Infinity). The optional keyboard w/ battery is definitely a great form factor. I believe Lenovo has one coming out and Asus has announced at least one Win8 version.
That's the one I'm after next - how do you find it (and can you get it in blue?)
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I like it alot. I had to disable the touchpad but I always do that on laptops too. I have the silverish/bluish one so I'm not sure it comes in a true blue color.
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I like it alot. I had to disable the touchpad but I always do that on laptops too. I have the silverish/bluish one so I'm not sure it comes in a true blue color.
That sounds like the one I'm after. The specs didn't say that they were available in that colour so that was the one thing I had to sort out. Thanks!
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d Asus has announced at least one Win8 version.
Asus has announced three [pocket-lint.com], actually.
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Is this another case of Apple copying what Sony is doing,
Doesn't matter. The only important thing is who bagged the patent.
Re:Copy Sony again? (Score:4, Funny)
You might want to look up what "prior art" means.
Re:Copy Sony again? (Score:5, Insightful)
Since when has that mattered to the patent office or Apple?
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http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/23/3023627/oracle-google-trial-patent-verdict [theverge.com]
Jury: Google did not infringe Oracle patents with Android
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Prior art doesn't have to be previously filed patents.
So *you* might want to look up what filing date means.
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When has Apple ever done anything else?
toaster?? (Score:5, Funny)
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Nah, the wiiSuck will be made by Nintendo.
wait a minute... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Which works great until you try to get it to balance like that...
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Maybe not a bad idea (Score:2)
[...]would be like converging a toaster and a refrigerator
It seems that most household appliances exist to alter the temperature of something. It would be great if the heat from a cooling appliance could do something useful. It obviously wouldn't work to toast bread directly with the cooling ribs, but there may be room for some convergence between appliances, to increase efficiency
Covering all bases? (Score:2)
So basically what we have here is a company saying... "This is a horrible idea that can never be profitable, but just as insurance we're going to patent it, so that in case someone makes anything like it we can tie them up in courts until we can launch a competitor to take over the market they so kindly created for us."
Yeah, patents are great y'all, no way anyone would ever use them for evil.
How to make inventions (Score:2)
da Vinci would be proud.
Why does anyone put any weight behind Apple speak. (Score:3)
Apple has never said anything which remotely reflects anything it might do. So why do people even bother?
Reacting instead of Acting. Apple is doomed (Score:2)
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If he was so clever why did he hire morons? Actually he was neither the half-god you make him out to be, nor are the people working for the company now, morons.
They have a lot of good designers and engineers, and a clear focus on user interface and system building. They make nice polished products. They also pursue the same litigious strategy Jobs introduced, and they continue the walled-garden approach which he pushed.
marrying a tablet and a keyboard (Score:2)
So can I get a patent on divorcing/separating a laptop screen and a keyboard into a fantastic happy little accident which gives the user true dual purpose experience? Maybe I'll call it the Asus Transformer?
Finally (Score:2)
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Let me break this down.
1. We have for some reason, powerful but small computers in our pockets.
2. They don't have keyboards and you need to use their overlay keyboard graphics stuff.
3. These computers has USB ports.
4. Keyboards has existed since the computer was invented.
5. I've had USB keyboards for 10 years or so.
4. ???? (insert immensil
More like "combining a screen and a keyboard" (Score:2)
I see no reason why, when connected to a keyboard and mouse, my tablet shouldn't behave like a regular PC. Actually, I want that. My guess is Apple doesn't want to compromise on the UI at all, and doesn't want a $500 alternative to the $1000 MacBook Air.
There are UI issues. Motorola actually had both Android (touch) and regular Linux (docked) for his Atrix. I do think there are ways to tack rworkable "docked" features to a touch OS: we only need keyboard shortcuts, mouse integration (including replacing tou
I have an idea, Tim Cook (Score:2)
And how about you go type that statement you just gave out on an ipad's touch keyboard, Tim Cook. You might change your mind halfway through.
Prior Art (Score:2)
The Acer Iconia has already done this so I think we can get this patent killed before it's even issued.
Doesn't necessarily mean anything (Score:2)
Ten years ago Apple applied for a patent for a color-changing device case [macobserver.com] and the entire Internet was almost swept away in the ensuing geekgasm. However, in the decade since, we have never seen it in production. There have been many other "Apple has a patent on..." stories since then for plenty of products that have not been made.
See also the Apple Product Cycle [misterbg.org] which has been very accurate in the decade since it was first published.
most have missed the point (Score:2)
it's not actually a keyboard, it's a big touchpad, using it as a keyboard is just one of the functions, and that's the difference between Surface and the prior art. Apple is covering it's ass to stop the cloners from doing the same. The concept is nice, but I still like a real keyboard.
Compaq TC1000, circa 2002 (Score:2)
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The idea of attaching a keyboard to a computing device?
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No, attaching a keyboard to an otherwise standalone tablet. See, just as it was innovative to remove the keyboard from a laptop and give a device a touchscreen, it's just as innovative, novel, and unintuitive to a practitioner in the field of tablets to add a keyboard. You may as well have developed a way to take credit card payments online - it's a complete game changer that nobody saw coming.
This is sliced bread and steering wheel level stuff here - not some me-too pseudo-discovery.
Re:Apple copying Microsoft? BS. (Score:4, Informative)
PLATO: Keyboard + Plasma Touchscreen, 1972 (Score:2)
1972 PLATO IV Touch-Screen Terminal [illinois.edu]: The University of Illinois' PLATO IV terminal, part of the PLATO educational computer systems the school started developing in the '60s, had an infrared touch plasma panel that allowed students to answer questions by touching the screen.
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Somebody mod this guy +5 funny (Score:2)
Not only isn't it the first touchscreen with a keyboard, it's not even the first with a wireless keyboard, or a standalone that can add a keyboard, or a tablet-keyboard combination that can be separated, or a tablet running a mobile operating system which can have an optional keyboard. Or even a tablet with rounded corners running a mobile operating system which connects to an optional, integrated keyboard that adds functionality other than just a keyboard.
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When you have more money than God, prior art? Not a problem. Obviousness? Not a problem.