Foxconn Invests $210 Million To Build New Production Line For Apple 178
redletterdave writes "On Monday, Foxconn agreed to invest $210 million to help Apple build out a new production line for 'unspecified components.' The 40,000-square-meter plant plans to hire roughly 35,800 new employees to help assemble parts for either desktop and laptop computers, iPhones, iPads, iPods, or possibly even new products or devices. Apple projects the plant's annual output between $949 million to $1.1 billion, and also estimates the import and export value at roughly $55.8 million."
36,000 employees? Why? (Score:3)
Why on earth do they need that many people. Aren't these electronics lines automated? (On another note: When was the last time a U.S. or EU company announced hiring 36,000 people.)
Re:36,000 employees? Why? (Score:5, Funny)
Don't you get it? The new product will be the technological equivalent of Soylent Green ... a "Soylent brushed metal and glass".
Re:36,000 employees? Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
In some places people are cheaper than robots.
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Kick back to a life of leisure while machines do all the work?
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/. really needs a sarcasm tag
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It will be after the revolution, comrade.
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Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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Just because you outsourced most of the work to China it doesn't mean it doesn't need to be done by someone as this news tidbit clearly shows. Just because it is across the ocean it doesn't mean there aren't people actually doing a significant part of the job. In a different society if there was less work to do and there was a superabundance of resources and goods the number of working hours would be reduced (some corporations like Google actually do this by giving their employees time to do their own acti
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Spartacus would argue that adding lots of people at the bottom of the wage scale just inevitably results in violent and bloody revolution.
"A Brief History of China's One-Child Policy" (Score:2)
Don't be an idiot. The more people we have, the higher the rate of technological advancement will happen. Humans are the ultimate resource. Without people eventually development would stagnate or even reverse itself. It has happened before when there were large population implosions (fall of the Roman Empire, Black Death, etc).
A Brief History Of China's One-Child Policy [time.com]:
"Even if China's population multiplies many times, she is fully capable of finding a solution; the solution is production," Mao Zedong proclaimed in 1949. "Of all things in the world, people are the most precious." The communist government condemned birth control and banned imports of contraceptives.
Combining rampant population growth with the disastrous industrial and agricultural follies of the Great Leap Forward , China experienced one of the largest famines in modern history [nytimes.com] -- the Great Chinese Famine of 1958-1962 [amazon.com].
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The reason I pointed out Mao ZheDong, was that he said something very similar, prior to embarking on the disastrous policies described my post above -- that he considered humans to be a resource rather than a burden, and therefore more people would equal more growth.
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Re:36,000 employees? Why? (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah, but you don't need to install netting for robots.
They prefer using the suicide booths.
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Who needs safety nets for cheap, unregulated, 3rd world labor?
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It's mostly down to the time it takes to design and construct an assembly line for making electronic products. The time it takes to do all that it generally longer than the production run of the device (especially with smartphones). It's much cheaper and simpler to just get a massive manned production line to do it instead.
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Here's your 1.2 square meters, now get to work!!
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It's called shifts. Likely 3 of them. An average 3.6 square meters is definitely small (surely less when you subtract equipment) but it isn't 1.2.
Re:36,000 employees? Why? (Score:5, Informative)
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The don't have two story buildings where you are from?
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Or 3 - 4 shifts of manufacturing either.
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Three shifts? More like two. Read TFA. Many workers report working 12 hours a day.
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Re:36,000 employees? Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Well one hardware device can support a whole lot more than one site or one piece of software. So Foxconn makes hardware for Apple devices. How many app developers in total make software for Apple devices? According to the latest bragging numbers there's over 500,000 apps and while many are simple some are not. And that doesn't include every other site on the Internet who can live off people using the web browser. For that matter, look at PCs and compare the hardware industry to the whole software industry.
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Knowledge workers have massive multiplicative effects - meaning one knowledge worker typically creates a support base of several other workers - everything from tech support to delivery drivers. Manufacturing jobs don't do that.
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What makes you think that manufacturing jobs don't have multiplier effects? You're flat-out wrong. Think about the two specific roles you cited, for a start: tech support and delivery drivers. You don't think there's an analogue to tech support for manufacturing? Trouble-shooting teams? And you don't think that goods need to be transported both to and from manufacturing sites? Manufacturing typically has a *higher* multiplier effect than service jobs. But they're both Good Things.
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Of course, this is all very handwavey and it varies hugely by sector. But the point remains that industrial towns that have undergone this transformation succesfully now have higher employment than they did before.
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Care to point to some studies that back up your position? You've just reasserted your original statement. Adding extra workers to a factory is typically done because of increasing volumes of output, and that certainly *does* increase maintenance requirements, plus all the suppliers need to make more stuff also, thus adding jobs.
A quick look at the US BEA's website suggests a multiplier of 2.34 for manufacturing vs 1.55 for professional and business services.
I couldn't find any evidence that demonstrated tha
No, lines aren't automated (Score:5, Informative)
If you watched the Foxconn video (or seen any industrial production video), you'd see that for certain types of assembly it's cheaper and easier to get people to do it than to mechanize.
Mechanization requires lots of tooling and is relatively hard to change once built. It's easier to just hire a lot of people and change their procedures when needed.
There's no secret to mass assembly - it's just a serious logistical challenge. Everything needs to be specified, exactly.
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Why on earth do they need that many people. Aren't these electronics lines automated? (On another note: When was the last time a U.S. or EU company announced hiring 36,000 people.)
- yeah, because Chinese government hasn't yet mandated an entire slew of things that would prevent a company just from trying to build a business and instead would force a company to look for ways to get away from hiring people and find ways to do the same work without any hiring at all.
This is the direct proof that all this government intervention in the USA and Europe etc. is what PREVENTS JOBS FROM HAPPENING and KILLS EXISTING JOBS.
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Not everyone here wants to get rid of regulations like minimum wage, OSHA, and environmental laws. Historically corporations here have screwed the environment (and everything else) if they are not regulated. I think things would be different if somehow the CEO was personally liable to some extent for the corporations' actions but I think we can agree that they are not.
Yeah, ALEC and Republicans really want to bring China here, fast. And many Americans don't like it!
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Flexible work force. You can issue orders to a group and have them execute different orders or work different shifts immediately.
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It's so that Apple can have their own clean, friendly production facility so that Foxconn can stop disrupting work at their hellhole^H^H^H^slave camp^H^H^H^H^other sweatshops to comply with public inspections by people who'd be outraged by how they NORMALLY do business.
In other words, a facade, like everything else at Apple.
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*DING DING DING!*
And we have a winnah!
*Forks over a cigar*
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Portions of the parts manufacture are automated, but Assembly is done by humans. Don't know if you have ever disassembled a laptop or not, but it is definitely delicate work better done by quick dextrous humans.
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Chinese workers are cheap, and plentiful (in the less developed provinces that is, this plant is to set up in Hainan, not in Shenzhen where their main site is).
No matter what, that's going to be one heck of a crowded factory.
40,000 m2 for 35,800 workers: that's just over 1 m2 per employee. Now they're said to work 12 hours a day, so assume two shifts, that's doubling the space to 2 m2 per worker. That's incredibly tight, considering this includes all space for tools and machines, conveyor belts, warehousing
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Only assembly lines in the western world are automated because labor's expensive enough that having a few robot technicians to maintain/program the robots is far cheaper than hiring people to manually do it. In China, labor's so cheap that the initial capital costs of robots and robot technicians aren't recouped by the time the ro
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From what I gather, Apple does do some designs in such a way that it requires a lot of people to assemble just so other valued Chinese or foreign companies won't set up a mechanized line to knock out knock offs faster than Apple can produce originals. This means that to knock off an Apple product successfully, you'd need a lot of up front investment, something the knock off companies won't do.
Where does IBT get its info? (Score:5, Informative)
Huh? Huai'an city is not in Hainan. It's in Jiangsu province, about 100km west of Shanghai. Hainan is an island off the southern coast of China, near Vietnam.
The China Daily article [chinadaily.com.cn] says there are two separate projects. Foxconn is both building this plant in Huai'an and starting up a new manufacturing base down in Hainan. The Hainan facility is not necessarily Apple-oriented.
In the USA? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'll go out on a limb and hazard a guess that this plant is not in the USA and won't provide any jobs in the USA.
Too bad that one of America's top companies outsources most of its production. Their profit margins could support USA jobs.
Would you accept Chinese wages in US of A? (Score:5, Interesting)
Too bad that one of America's top companies outsources most of its production
Well ... there is one very simple way of stop companies from outsourcing anything - work in America while accepting Chinese wages
Are you willing to work in America while receiving wages equal to what the Chinese workers are receiving?
Re:Would you accept Chinese wages in US of A? (Score:5, Interesting)
There's another way. Stop this suicidal race to the bottom. It would be nice if we had CEOs that weren't a bunch of Randist supermen, who might actually consider helping the society that let them reach their current heights. Since that doesn't seem likely to happen, I'd settle for raising their taxes. They always complain that increasing taxes will drive away the job creators. From where I sit, those people aren't creating any American jobs, so their argument falls flat.
Re:Would you accept Chinese wages in US of A? (Score:5, Insightful)
There's another way. Stop this suicidal race to the bottom.
Unfortunately there is no way to stop this blind rush to the bottom
How much are you willing to pay for your next iPAD? $7,999.00 or $499.00 ?
How much are you willing to pay for your next iTV? $18,999.00 or $999.00 ?
You are the consumer, you vote with your wallet. and get to decide where your next purchase will be made
If you want your next gadget to be made in the US of A, be prepared to pay more, much more than what you are currently willing to pay
Do not blame the CEO, the "Top 1%", for the outsourcing of jobs
It's YOU and ME, the consumers, who have told corporations such as Apple, LOUDLY, with our collective wallets, that we want our next gadget to be CHEAP - and the corporations oblige, by seeking out the place where they can make the gadget with the lowest cost possible, namely the Far East
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It's only a minor part of the story. Aside from prices consumers are willing to pay, there are also profits. Even if we are willing to pay more, corporations are still going to outsource to maximize their profits.
I think we just have to accept it. We just have to live with the fact that US is the home of innovation and creative work, but not necessarily manfacturing. I disagree that investing in China creates no US jobs - that's shortsighted. You look at 40K Chinese workers, and you should also look at the
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You forget one important factor in your analysis, and that is the profit of the business owner.
If the business owner was willing to lower his profits, then the products could be produced in USA and still be cheap.
And the American workers that worked on those products would get descent salaries too.
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It's global adjustment, the Chinese are NOT racing to the bottom.
Americans can work for much less money then they do now but it will take years for low wages to FORCE down the cost of living.
The world is catching up. Get used to it.
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Wages are a small part of the cost of an iPhone. They could be made in the US for something like $60 more per phone.
If you search for "build iphone in america", you find lots of articles with the same quote:
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Wages are a small part of the cost of an iPhone. They could be made in the US for something like $60 more per phone.
If you search for "build iphone in america", you find lots of articles with the same quote:
Apple executives say that going overseas, at this point, is their only option. One former executive described how the company relied upon a Chinese factory to revamp iPhone manufacturing just weeks before the device was due on shelves. Apple had redesigned the iPhoneâ(TM)s screen at the last minute, forcing an assembly line overhaul. New screens began arriving at the plant near midnight.
A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the companyâ(TM)s dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day.
âoeThe speed and flexibility is breathtaking,â the executive said. âoeThereâ(TM)s no American plant that can match that.â
No, I will argue that wage IS the determinant factor
It's much more than the $60.00 more per iPhone
Can you try to imagine Apple does what they did in China in a factory inside the US of A - getting 8,000 workers back to work the production line, in the middle of the night, with just a biscuit and a cup of tea??
1. No worker in America will work for a biscuit and a cup of tea in the middle of the night
2. If they do, the American workers will demand HUGE INCREASE IN WAGE BONUS - much more than the $60 that y
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Too bad that one of America's top companies outsources most of its production. Their profit margins could support USA jobs.
Profit is not made on production. That's a very low-margin business, as it's largely unskilled labour. And unskilled labour, by being unskilled, is easily replaceable. The only thing that gives companies like Foxconn a negotiation position is because Foxconn is so big, that they can actually handle the volumes Apple demands, and that they can make significant investments in new plants by themselves. Most factories in China are not that big, can't handle huge volumes, and are not in a strong position to nego
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So...
The 1% are doing fine (as usual) .
The rest of us need jobs.
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Last time I checked, US unemployment is well below 99%.
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If you were a hard-working Asian, you would have RTFA and not have to guess.
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For the clueless ...
The question was rhetorical.
(You may need to look up the term.)
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Apple outsources ALL of its commercial production.
Even those processors that Samsung makes for it in Texas?
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I suppose it is, where "outsourcing" means you ship your manufacturing outside of the USA. I mean, Texas is pretty much not in the US any more anyway, might as well call it a foreign country.
Apple haters where are you? (Score:2)
Why not interoperability? (Score:2)
Personally, I think that Apple, Google, et. al. should be required to maintain some sort of interoperability between their media platforms, or at least open them enough that others can compete. If I buy a movie on iTunes, I should be able to play it on an Android machine (there's no real technical obstacle.) Same for books, music, etc.
This is clear monopolistic behavior, and should be crushed like a bug.
Taiwan is not China (Score:2)
Half of the comments are about plants in China. Taiwan, the last I checked, is still independent of China and may have much stricter employment rules.
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Did anybody ready the article? The plant is being built in Taiwan, not in the People's Republic of China.
Yes we did, you just had a reading comprehension fail. The plant is being built in Hainan (a province of the PRC). The press statement is being issued from Taiwan ROC, where Foxconn's corporate offices are.
Like what? Buying Apple more ethnically sound. (Score:2, Interesting)
I buy locally (or at least nationally) produced products when possible.
With electronics, that's pretty much NOT possible, with some small exceptions.
At least with Apple, they are making some efforts for transparency, and improvement in the conditions of factory workers. Currently there is NO other major electronics consumer that I have the same degree of assurances from, not within an order of magnitude...
To that end, I have stopped buying NON-Apple products when possible. Normally in the past I bought no
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Apple changed when the spotlight was put on the industry, way before the spotlight was put on Apple.
The thing that really gets me is now that spotlight is only on Apple, not the industry. There is a factor of decreasing gains, Apple can only do so much - meanwhile the rest of the industry laughs and continues to do whatever the hell they like, burning egrets to make bezels or what have you.
That is what is making me angry, that the focus on Apple is a HUGE opportunity cost for cleaning up all other consumer
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Whoa there... you might want to check your own pedestal.
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It was one of the most hypocritical posts I have seen in the sea of /. hypocrisy. The walled garden argument is so lame. Calling everyone who says anything positive about Apple a fanboi is equally lame.
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Confirmation (Score:3)
filled to the brim with honest people with spines like me whose dicks are big enough
Yes, we could tell easily from your first message you were a huge dick. No need to confirm.
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I am not unsympathetic to current events in India and China but why are the economic events taking place their now any different to what took place in Europe and the USA around a century ago?
I have Indian colleagues in my work team and even they will fully admit that personal wealth plays a big factor in Indian society and the caste system that still exists there - I suspect the same is true in China where the new rich there are able to use their new wealth to buy properties in London and spend their money
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Oh please STOP with the typical fanboi elevating yourself on a lofty pedestal
I'm not elevating myself. I'm showing others how they can climb.
I don't own one single Apple product
And some decide to stay in the gutter. That is your choice, but don't pretend you are better than me because of it.
If I'm completely honest, I actually don't care very much because ultimately this is about capitalism and supply and demand
That's fine, but again don't label me with a term like "fanboi" because I seek to become a lit
Re:Like what? Buying Apple more ethnically sound. (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't own one single Apple product
And some decide to stay in the gutter. That is your choice, but don't pretend you are better than me because of it.
Why do you think he is pretending he is better than you? The rest of the quote you conveniently left out is
because I don't buy into walled gardens, it's that simple.
It sounds to me like the closed ecosystem doesn't appeal to him. Saying that "some decide to stay in the gutter" sounds like you are pretending that you are better because you purchased a particular brand.
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Someone really abused their mod points. Great post btw.
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Let me put my cards on the table - I could care less about Apple.
I've been using computers now for more than a quarter of a century and never felt the least bit inclined to buy any Apple product because nothing they've ever made would ever have enhanced my computing experience - and, yes, as a techno-geek I keep abreast of as many new products as I can, Apple or not Apple.
At this moment in time, I use mostly Linux - but even that doesn't do all I need a computer to do which is why I also do a lot of work on
Conditions? (Score:3)
For example I recently noted that a 24" 1080p monitor from Samsung was "made" in Mexico.
Yes but what are conditions like THERE? I can only imagine the horrors that would be easily hid in Mexico...
But since we lack any visibly into TV manufacturing I suppose possibly Mexican assembly workers may be treated better... it's a pretty large jump to make though, with no facts to back up what is the better choice. I'm limping along with older equipment until I know better (and no, I'm not waiting for Apple to pro
Re:Conditions? (Score:5, Interesting)
Whatever the conditions in a Mexican factory might be, the workers are there by choice. Communism is dead in that country, and folks there aren't generally told what jobs they must do. It might have been different a long time ago (when I lived there as a kid, the mountain overlooking our house featured a giant hammer-and-sickle formed from boulders, which I'm told has since been destroyed).
Life is full of choices. If I have the choice to buy products made in a country who has a history of treating their workers respectfully, I do so. Even little things: I like fasteners made by company called Spax, for instance. Their manufacturing happens either in Germany or not so far from me in Bryan, Ohio (also home of the Etch-a-Sketch), and either one is perfectly fine with me and -vastly- preferable over anything which might be Chinese in origin because I can be reasonably certain that their workers are well-paid.
But given a choice between China and Mexico, I prefer Mexico, just because anything I can do to support my neighbors to the south is far preferable to supporting a country on the other side of the world. Put simply: I'd rather see Mexico's economy do well, than see China's do the same, since the former will have a greater positive influence on the economy of my own country.
And it's just the neighborly thing to do.
No different than China (Score:2)
Whatever the conditions in a Mexican factory might be, the workers are there by choice.
I disagree that that differs at all from conditions in China. The Chinese workers are the ones that seek to work in the factories. They can also leave at any time, the state does not have to force them to work there because there are so many that wish to.
In both countries poverty makes the factory choice much more appealing than the peasant countryside life.
Life is full of choices. If I have the choice to buy products m
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People tend to seek what employment there is. In a country with very few work options, where people are very poor, and where big business is drug cartels, then of course many people will find work in drug cartels. What else are desperate people going to do?
However, if other businesses can thrive as well, then people will have choices other than drugs. So buying "honest goods" from a place such as Mexico surely would help the country out of its crisis, in the long term.
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Oh, I know! The best solution to the woes in our neighboring country Mexico is to never buy anything from them again, ever!
Oh ,I know! The best way to argue is to take every point to the absolute extreme and consider no nuances!
Thanks for your "insight". If I'd known you were an utter retard I would have just pointed it out to start with. Thanks for wasting all of our times just because I overtook you on a single point.
And you're right, we are done here. I'll give you the last response but at this point
P.S., how to actually help Mexico. (Score:3)
For those curious, the best way to help Mexicans out (besides the way I already mentioned and you missed) is of course greatly increased ability to move across borders to work, but failing that the next best way for the individual to help is to support micro loans for people in Mexico, to rebuild the economy from the inside up.
I mention that for the benefit of those who have not replaced their brain with a second misshapen penis, and therefore support enslaving the people of Mexico to make your toaster.
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I think you're projecting a fair amount into what it means to be a 'neighbor' in the modern world. From my standpoint, China is a neighbor in most of the ways that Mexico is a neighbor to you. Half my family members are from China, half my coworkers are from China, I visit Chinese web sites on the internet, and its a one day flight away. In principle I could walk, bicycle, or drive to Mexico, but in practice I would fly there also. And the Chinese and American economies are joined at the hip: what happ
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Since Apple invest their money in China, I think I'll invest my hard earn money in someone else product beside Apple
Hard to believe this poorly worded comment is Score: 0.
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I just want to know where he plans on spending his money...You can't build a computer of any kind without parts from Asia. Even all of those companies with the american flags in their ads are just assembling parts from Asia.
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Come on... were you honestly expecting Apple (the most secretive consumer electronics company on the planet) to announce to the world that they're building a special assembly line for Apple iTV's months before they're ready to ship?
Re:Close quarters! (Score:5, Insightful)
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8 other people within three meters? Most cubicle workers can say the same.
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Actually it's probably more likely that they have 4 shifts, not 3. 3 8-hour shifts makes a 24 hour day, but you then have those same sets of people working 7 days a week -- but if you rotate schedules, go to a 12 hour shift, it's really simple to have a plant running 24/7 with 4 crews of employees putting in 3-5 days per 'week', and if any critical employee can't show up on any given shift of any given day -- there's always 2 other employees not working the following shift who can be brought in to cover fo
Re:Close quarters! (Score:5, Insightful)
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