Jumentum Introduces a Single-Chip Linux System 76
An anonymous reader writes "The Jumentum open source project has announced a single-chip programming system based on the NXP LPC1768 (the same as in the mbed) that can generate PAL/NTSC video and use a PS/2 keyboard, so it may operate as a standalone BASIC programmable computer, similar to many old BASIC computers (e.g. Apple ][ or C64) of yore. Projects such as the Raspberry Pi provide a multichip Linux solution, and the Humane PC uses three AVR microcontrollers, but the Jumentum system can provide a true one-chip solution. Video is generated by software, and only a few external resistors are required to interface to a composite video input. With the Jumentum system, you can take your tiny one-chip computer on-the-go, or use it as part of your own electronics projects (using for example, the mbed) to give it a convenient interface (along with Jumentum's Ethernet web and USB interfaces)."
No a Linux system (Score:5, Informative)
This is not a Linux system at all. It uses some of the GNU tool-chain for cross-compiling, but that is it. This is a single-chip BASIC system with some neat I/O capabilities.
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It isn't hardware either. It's a programming environment for a class of ARM microcontrollers. You have to make or buy your own hardware based on one of those controllers, for example the "mbed".
As much more capable systems are coming down in price, limited microcontroller based designs are becoming unattractive. When an evaluation board costs more than for example a Raspberry Pi, why deal with an unfamiliar environment instead of running applications on a standard OS? The only reason I can think of is if yo
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Sure, for single users playing around, a ready-made Raspberry Pi works fine. For higher volume commercial applications, a custom board with a microcontroller is still cheaper, smaller, lower power, and simpler to design and manufacture.
And for many applications, running Linux is not an advantage.
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Which ARM capable of running a full OS from internal memory is only $1 ?
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The $6.45 chip you're pointing at is exactly the kind of single chip microcontroller I was talking about.
This chip won't run Linux. It doesn't even support external memories, and it doesn't have an MMU. The nice things about this chip is that is internal Flash, internal RAM, and internal peripherals, so all you need is a 3.3V power supply, and it'll run your application.
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Thanks for the BG Micro link. My wife will be hiding the credit card now ;)
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You can't just "add in a buck's worth of memory and an I/O chip", there's no external bus on a chip like that. It's a system-on-a-chip, and when they say that, they mean it. You get what's on the chip, and maybe some peripherals if you're lucky.
That is exactly the kind of chip that the project this story confusedly refers to targets.
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"Tens of thousands" is not considered a "higher volume commercial application". Think millions.
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Doesn't have to be millions. Even for 10,000 pieces I would prefer a $5 chip over a $25 chip set, even if it takes a few months extra work to get the software in there.
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> A 100MHz ARM core with enough flash and RAM on die to run a full operating system is about $1.
What operating system? What supplier and part number do you have in mind, exactly?
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Thanks, slashdot - news for derps.
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why deal with an unfamiliar environment instead of running applications on a standard OS? The only reason I can think of is if you have very strict and low power consumption limits (milliwatts instead of one or two watts). Once you throw Ethernet in there, there really is no point in going with a microcontroller anymore.
This isn't unusual. For example, just about any device that needs to be battery powered. An 8bit ARM or PIC can run a a few milliwatts, less if it can drop into sleep mode for a percentage of its operation.
Sure a couple of watts is not much, but if a device is running from batteries, it's still 500 times the power budget of a "limited microcontroller design"
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So, not very useful then. I mean why choose BASIC? Or at least, why restrict it to BASIC? Would probably be a good learning or hobbyist machine if it had Python/Scheme/Ruby instead.
I mean, I loved my ZX Spectrum and the old BBC Micro, but in retrospect this was in spite of BASIC, not because of it. Nobody knew any better then.
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I mean why choose BASIC? .. I loved my ZX Spectrum and the old BBC Micro, but in retrospect this was in spite of BASIC, not because of it. Nobody knew any better then.
They do say "basic-derived language". But otherwise I agree, a small and more modern language would have been a better match. Lua comes to mind.
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(And no, I don't think that learning to use "goto" is a bad thing. Goto may make code harder to optimize for compiler or harder to understand for humans, but when not abused, it can si
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I think it would be quite challenging to run any of the more modern languages with only 64kB RAM, and 512 kB of Flash.
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I know, but those applications were written with the hardware limitations in mind. Similarly, the first PDPs were running C compilers and UNIX. However, my local /usr/bin/python is 2MB, and uses 350kB of RAM, and that's excluding shared libraries and OS support that it requires.
Porting Python to a microcontroller would certainly be possible, but it wouldn't be a matter of downloading the source tree, and typing 'make'. You'd probably have to rewrite most of the stuff in order to make it fit.
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Cool. There's even an mbed port, so it should be easy to integrate with Jumentum.
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Most of these devices are targeted natively by C compilers instead of interpreting BASIC.
You can target even Atmel's ATTinys with C. (2k flash, I think 512 bytes RAM, 8 bit core for the Tiny25.)
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I know, I've used C with both LPC17xx and ATTiny45. The interesting part about this hack is the use of the SSP port with DMA to produce video output, although I wonder how stable the image is when used in combination with Ethernet and SD. The BASIC interpreter is cute, but it wouldn't be my style. For my own purposes, I'd prefer C.
Beagle board is true Linux (Score:4, Informative)
If you are looking for a small mobo with Linux perhaps your best choice woud be the Beagle board [beagleboard.org].
For lower capabilities, Arduino [arduino.cc] would be the obvious choice, it's programmed in C, using gcc.
I don't see too much in this Jumentum, offering a web server in a chip is interesting, but this capability has been available in small chipsets (not single chips) for Atmel or Microchip PICs for years. If I needed that capability right now I'd probably go for an Arduino with ethernet.
Apart from this, Jumentum is a poor name choice, "jumento" means donkey in Portuguese.
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The ARM is much more powerful than the Atmega in the Arduino, and easier to program due to its unified address space. It also has 8 times the RAM, and more flash. It's a good choice if you need a bit more oomph than the Arduino offers.
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The Beagle board is ARM. I mentioned it just because it was the first that came to my mind, but there's also FriendlyARM [friendlyarm.net] and perhaps other systems that I haven't heard of yet. FriendlyARM was created as a development system for Android, so it has a lot of capability.
The only interesting feature I can see for the Jumentum is it being single-chip. The lack of a decent operating system would be a no-go for most users. Without an OS it's nothing more than an Arduino on steroids and without a decent programming
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I find C preferable for embedded work, but if you wanted to keep the same language interface as Arduino, you could simply use an appropriate library, such as this one: http://leaflabs.com/docs/libmaple.html [leaflabs.com]
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Problem is, this particular project wastes the power of ARM by using it to run a BASIC intepreter.
Target a 1768 directly with a C compiler and you have a very powerful chip that is still possible to solder yourself at home (e.g. you can design your own custom board around it.)
Good luck soldering the Package-on-Package BGA stack (yes, that's multiple chips stacked on top of each other) in the BeagleBoard.
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in between and arduino are these ethernet jacks with embedded linux
http://deviceguru.com/ethernet-connector-contains-linux-server/ [deviceguru.com]
http://www.lantronix.com/device-networking/embedded-device-servers/xport.html [lantronix.com]
both have a little GPIO
either way it's about $200-300 to get a development kit and a device, and roughly $50/unit in Qty 1,000
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"Modern" languages are much less expressive than assembly or BASIC: e.g. you cannot [easily] have functions that jump from one to another, or have multiple points of entry.
What's more important though, BASIC (and assembly, once newbie gets accustomed with it
I agree (Score:2)
I am in perfect factual agreement about that, but I ascribe a different value to it :)
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Also, there's this thing called "Data-Oriented Design/Programming" which despises OOP for not thinking about data
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And a damn nice one :)
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Your mom is stupid.
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Good ol' Slashdot non-editors. Indeed, there's basically no way this chip can run Linux, at least not the way most of us know Linux. It's an ARM Cortex M3 (Thumb-2 instruction set only) with 512K flash and 64K RAM (about the maximum on CM3 these days), and has no external memory bus.
The mbed board is kind of nice, in that it also has a Cortex A-something chip that loads the 1768's flash from the last file saved to its small USB stick filesystem, and does a few other things. The idea is that once your proj
Re:Not a Linux system, a BASIC Stamp (Score:2)
This isn't Linux. It's a BASIC Stamp replacement [parallax.com], 30 years too late.
Aurduno is far ahead for dinky-machine low level programming. It has a rational way for newbies to deal with interrupts, which you need down at that level.
Personally, I think the next step up ought to be a QNX on a chip system. QNX scales down further than Linux does; you can run QNX with no disk or writable flash. and get something useful going in well under 1MB. You still have a real OS, with processes, threads, a POSIX API, etc. I
PAL/NTSC? (Score:2)
How long will you still get TVs which accept PAL/NTSC signals?
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You will be able to use PAL/NTSC for a fair bit longer than any other currently available standard for video. Keep in mind that PAL and NTSC have been around for decades and is unlikely to disappear anytime soon because a lot of equipment either depends upon it or will fall back to it. Even "VGA" is unlikely to exist as far into the future because it was a *relatively* specialis standard (at least when compared to PAL/NTSC).
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Even "VGA" is unlikely to exist as far into the future because it was a *relatively* specialis standard (at least when compared to PAL/NTSC).
When doing presentations, it's nearly impossible to connect anything else than VGA. Even when the beamer supports DVI or HDMI, the cables are never set up for this. As a result, VGA is always supported on notebooks (exclusively on some), and even on iPads. I do presentations very frequently, and I haven't bought the DVI/HDMI adapters for any of my portable devices, only VGA. I think this will stay with us for a while.
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Quite some time, actually. And it's awesome because replacements are FREE nowadays. No one wants them so I actually have a small surplus now of old tellies that people didn't want to keep any longer. The analogue ones are best, just flick the next or previous channel button and it instantly switches channel! That's so awesome, I laugh in the face of anyone trying to sell one of those set-top boxes with their awfully slow menus and "interactive content" which are in reality mandatory loading screens whenever
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And good riddance to it! Colour interlaced broadcast video was a pair of ugly (though incredibly ingenious) hacks to very old B&W broadcast systems that is an incredible pain to work with in anything other than a fully analog toolchain (what, you thought you could just sample a few hundred times each scanline and stack the result? HAH!). And even then there was little guarantee of the end p
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Don't forget what the i in 1080i stands for
Yep, iincredible pain-in-the-ass throwback. Of all the digital encoding tricks that can be used to keep down the filesize for a negligible drop in quality, interlacing is the last one I'd pick. It causes a whole host of problems, and the gains aren't nearly as big as with analog video (certainly far from a 50% reduction).
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The PAL/NTSC composite display standard has absolutely nothing to do with analog broadcast spectrum. The composite port on a TV will exist for many years to come, long after analog TV tuners are no longer produced. As wikipedia says, "Composite video can easily be directed to any broadcast channel simply by modulating the proper RF carrier frequency with it." But I think you're confusing the two.
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How long will you still get TVs which accept PAL/NTSC signals?
Until the last analog cable TV channel is replaced with a QAM signal on the last cable TV system in the world.
Its gonna be awhile.
The one good thing is "TVs" have never done more and it keeps getting cheaper to add more silicon. Mandatory NTSC stereo decoders in the 80s. All TVs must support closed captioning since roughly the 90s. All TVs must support the V-chip that no one uses since the 00s. All TVs must support NTSC that few people use since the 10s. I'm sure the TV of the 2050s will have to suppor
Composite video forever (Score:2)
Maximite - same thing but with a PIC (Score:1)
Sounds a similar idea to the Maximite, which is based on a PIC32.http://geoffg.net/maximite.html
Raspberry Pi _is_ a Single Chip Solution (Score:3)
Um, from what I've seen so far, the reason they can sell the Raspberry Pi model A for $25 is that it's basically a single Broadcom BCM2835 SoC (with embedded RAM) mounted on a PCB with some I/O connectors and not much else. (the model B just adds one other chip to provide a USB hub and ethernet).
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The BCM2835 isn't very open, though. Apparently, you need to sign an NDA to obtain a data sheet. For tinkering hobbyists, that's going to be a big hurdle.
Bad name (Score:2)
I would say it's a bad choice for a name. In portuguese "Jumento" means ass (the animal) and is a relativelly common adjective used to indicate something/someone dumb.
Then explain eDonkey (Score:3)
NuttX ? (Score:2)
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Yes its quite possible. However, the FPGA needed to do it at a ( subjective ) useful level is pretty expensive.
Emulating older 8 bit machines with a single FPGA is done all the time by hobbyists at a cost most people can afford.
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