Ask Slashdot: How Do You Choose a Windows Laptop? 898
jfruhlinger writes "I'm a Mac guy. When our 2004-era Windows XP laptop, which was used primarily by my wife, died last summer, I got myself a new MacBook Pro and she inherited my still serviceable 2008 MacBook. But after about six months, she hasn't gotten used to it, and wants a Windows machine. I don't have an ideological problem with this — it'd be her computer, and we've got a bit of money stashed away to pay for it. But trying to pick one out is my job, and I find the the whole process bewildering. Apple's product differentiation is great at defeating the paradox of choice — you have a few base models, the difference between which is quite obvious, and you can customize each. The Windows world seems totally different. Even once I've settled on a vendor for a Windows laptop (something I haven't done yet), each seems to have a bewildering array of product lines with similar specs. Often models that you find in electronics or office supply stores that seem promising in terms of form factor are exclusive to those stores and can't be found online. Obviously people do navigate this process, but I'm just feeling out of my depth. How would Slashdotters go about picking a solid, basic laptop for Web surfing and document editing that won't be obsolete in two years?"
Just use the hardware you have (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Just use the hardware you have (Score:5, Informative)
+1 to this.
A Macbook makes a great Windows laptop, and since you already have it it'll be more cost effective to just buy a copy of Windows.
Set up a bootcamp partition (Apps > Utils > Boot Camp Assistant) and give it the lion's share of the disk if it's going to be her primary OS and then install.
Once you have Windows on there, the OS X software disks that came with it (or the ones for your MBP) have all the necessary drivers that are set up via install wizard - just pop it in after Windows boots for the first time.
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Window is fucking expensive stand alone. Many multiples what the OEMs pay.
If your wife or you happen to teach or go to a school, you might be able to get it for free from the school, or at a steep discount.
But yea, install on the 2008. It should easily still be good enough. Max out the RAM too. At this point, it's as cheap as it will get for your model. Later on, it'll just become rarer and most places will then put a premium on it.
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exactly. I have been trying to find a cheap version of windows 7 for a while. I have even hunted down some wholesalers, and I can't seem to find it for less than retail, unless I am part of some ultra special group.
You used to be able to buy XP OEM disks from certain builders but I can't even do that anymore.
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Ask a student to buy it for you.
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Watch digital river for deals for students. I was able to pick up a copy of Windows 7 Pro X64 for $30 via digital river.
There are more sites like that as well.
It looks like the windows7.digitalriver.com is over, but they link to here:
http://www.microsoft.com/student/en/us/office/default.aspx
You can get the Windows 7 Upgrade for $80
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Just buy the OEM version. Even Microsoft themselves can't agree on whether it's acceptable or not (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/is-it-ok-to-use-oem-windows-on-your-own-pc-dont-ask-microsoft/1561) but as far as I'm concerned after interpreting the license as best as I could (IANAL etc), it's absolutely fine.
The crap about selling it with a fully assembled system is for when the EULA takes effect: which is when it's been opened. While it remains unopened, PC enthusiast vendors are just selling the package
The only downside (Score:5, Informative)
Is that system builder licenses aren't transferable. It is 100% fine to use them on systems you do yourself, that's why Newegg sells them. However they are designed like OEM licenses that Dell et al sell which means that they are tied to that system, which in this case means a motherboard. So you install it, and life is good. However if you get a new computer later and want to transfer it, no deal, it is tied to the computer you put it on.
That's more or less what you are paying for with retail Windows is a "transfer tax" if you like, or having the license be like a book. You can only have it on one thing, but you are free to change what that thing is.
I'm not saying that is a big deal, just that it is something to know and recognize.
Re:The only downside (Score:5, Informative)
Unless something has changed recently, that's not entirely true. An OEM disc which comes bundled with a computer frequently has 2 keys available, one is on the disc and is valid for any number of computers as a part of the OEM computers and the one which is stuck to the side for that particular computer.
I've used OEM discs on upgraded computers many times and as long as you use the computer specific one on only one computer at a time you're fine. From time to time if you upgrade too quickly it will refuse to activate, but if you let it set for a period of time it'll install just fine. Otherwise you have to call MS for them to clear the previous install.
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Also, if she has only used XP, she my find Windows 7 as confounding as Mac OS X.
Bootcamp it with a copy of W7, but don't Activate it until she is confidant she can adapt to W7.
A lot of XP-Mac switches happened because XP-Vista was an infuriating learning curve. If they had to learn a new system, why stick with Windows?
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The OP has a 2008 Macbook, which *does* have a right mouse button - it features the multitouch trackpad.
Other than that, you are correct that it has no numpad.
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Granted, I do believe that i3, i5 and i7 laptops are hard to find outside of apple at the moment, but wait a month.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but I don't think any of those CPUs are hard to find in a laptop. My Dell for work is almost a year old and has an i7. At the time they had several choices for laptops with all three of the processors you mentioned. We also have several Sony laptops that are a couple months older that have i7's.
Re:Just use the hardware you have (Score:5, Insightful)
> Just install windows on the mac?
That only works if you don't despise Apple keyboards.
Try using the thing first. Then work from there.
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Not to mention that Apple laptops have that stupid track pad with only one button. Meaning that it's not going to work correctly in Windows without extra work.
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Two finger tap to right click - OSX makes just as much use of context menus as Windows does, so it's not like they left the feature out of the hardware.
Actually, it's exactly like they left the feature out of the hardware. I disable the touch-to-click on trackpads, because I'll be typing and some part of one of my hands will hit the trackpad and the cursor jumps somewhere or clicks a button or something. A second mouse button is really easy to implement in hardware, and so is a third or fourth for that matter. It's not a question about how to use the hardware ("you're holding it wrong"), it's whether or not the hardware even works for what you need it t
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I have touch-to-click disabled also. You can still hold 2 fingers down on the pad and click on the button for a 'right-click.' No jumpy or clicky. I'm surprised you have not figured this out yet.
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What, debunk some ridiculous mistakes?! Are you insane! As with any group, there is a group-think that doesn't like Apple products, for a variety of reasons. I do find it funny that the anti-Apple and anti-MS posters are just as zealous in the promotion of Linux. Maybe one of these days everyone will just let everyone else buy what the heck they want.
Nah.
Re:Just use the hardware you have (Score:4, Informative)
I love the keyboard, but the trackpad is crippled under Windows. It still has multitouch etc, but has funny issues like right-click taps requiring 3 fingers instead of 2.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with the hardware and in general Windows is often better on a Mac than a PC. But it'd certainly be worth remaining aware of any issues - making your Windows experience superb and smooth is hardly Apple's priority so bugs go on for some time.
Also tends to gobble battery (Score:3)
Apple doesn't seem to have good ACPI drivers for Windows so it cannot manage power as effectively as it should. So you'll find that Windows gets less battery than OS-X, and also less than on a comparable non-Apple laptop. It isn't horrible, but it is noticeable.
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Windows is often better on a Mac than a PC.
As a Mac is basically a reasonably well specified PC in a nice case for fifty per cent more money, it will run Windows better than a low end PC. Amazing.
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Agreed with that advice - Mac laptops are great, but try the keyboard on something real. If you are a coder - write code on that keyboard. If you are an accountant, type numbers on it. Don't just assume you will get used to it because it is very very odd.
I bought a Macbook Pro as a Windows laptop several years ago and it has been a phenomenal computer. But I say that only because I *never* use it without an external keyboard.
1) The keyboard is very small, compared to the size of the laptop
Here is why: t
Re:Just use the hardware you have (Score:4, Funny)
You wuss... REAL coders use a REAL coder's keyboard [wordpress.com]!
Seriously... why all those excess keys, anyway?
Re:Just use the hardware you have (Score:4, Informative)
Fn + up arrow = page up, Fn + down arrow = page down
The swapping of the meta keys makes sense because the primary meta key you use is Command on the Mac.
Don't really see what's wrong with more meta keys on the opposite side of the keyboard. My think pad has more than one Ctrl and Alt. Considering that Command is the Mac equivalent of Ctrl it's exactly equivalent. Except my thinkpad has that silly menu key.
And virtually every PC has a hard eject button on the drive. So what?
Yup Delete is Backspace and if you want forward delete hold Fn+Delete.
I think if you actually bothered to learn how to use your Mac laptops keyboard you'd like it a lot better.
Re:Just use the hardware you have (Score:5, Insightful)
Then please explain: in implementation (on either platform), what is the functional difference between Enter and Return?
Unless you're 1) on Windows and 2) like saving time. In my case, Win+E and Win+R get used multiple times per hour, Win+L gets used every time I leave my desk, and Win+Pause is one of the first things I hit when I start work on someone else's computer.
Also, one thing that hasn't been brought up yet (that I've seen) is the misbehaving Home and End keys. They're supposed to move the input cursor to the beginning and end of the current line of input, not... whatever it is they do under OS X – I've never managed to figure out exactly what that is.
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In spreadsheets, Return accepts the value entered and moves focus down one line while Enter accepts the value entered without moving focus. Some older Mac applications with text-based interfaces treat Return as end-of-line and Enter as end-of-file. With the advent of OSX, the Enter key has become less important, and has almost become a second Return, but it used to function as a kind of
Re:Just use the hardware you have (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, that's probably the best answer of all. Just run Windows on it. Also, I might say "make it dual boot" so that she has something to fall back on when her machine gets trashed and/or unusable... as we all know it will.
Re:Just use the hardware you have (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, that's probably the best answer of all. Just run Windows on it. Also, I might say "make it dual boot" so that she has something to fall back on when her machine gets trashed and/or unusable... as we all know it will.
Actually it's about the worst answer.
1. the laptop is 2.5 years old. The battery will be almost gone and there will likely be other HW issues developing.
2. the wife does not like it.
I can tell that everyone suggesting you just put Windows on the Mac has never been married, or probably had a LT girlfriend but if the wife wants something, a half arsed solution like slapping Windows on top of it wont help, in fact it will make things a lot worse.
My advice for the OP, let the wife choose. Pick about 5 different models that you know are good (Dell Latitude, Lenovo Thinkpad, Asus and Toshiba, wife will probably like the look of the Asus) put some pictures into a document and let her pick which one she wants. That way the onus is on her to like it, having her make the decision reduces the likelihood that she'll turn around and blame you for any issues (as she is currently doing with the Mac).
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"I can tell that everyone suggesting you just put Windows on the Mac has never been married, or probably had a LT girlfriend but..."
Don't know what kind of women you are dating, but your impression of women as irrational things that should be manipulated so as not to blame you in the future sounds awful.
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"I can tell that everyone suggesting you just put Windows on the Mac has never been married, or probably had a LT girlfriend but..."
Don't know what kind of women you are dating, but your impression of women as irrational things that should be manipulated so as not to blame you in the future sounds awful.
Not sure why you see manipulation in this suggestion.
Having been in an academic tech support job for a bunch of years (and an equally long-term relationship) and having shepherded though thousands of purchases and then supported those devices, I've found giving the person who'll actually be using a thing (laptop, printer, gps, phone, &c.) a set of known-good options and letting them decide is a great practice. If they really want you to pick it for them they'll usually say so.
Users who select their own
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I've been married for 10 years to a wonderful woman that I'd never call "illogical", in fact her reasoning is often clearer than most anyone else I know. If I tried to get my wife to pick *anything* merely by looking at a handful of pictures that of items I had selected, she'd have a good laugh (because she knows me). If anyone else tried it, she'd be offended, and rightly so.
If you've found someone who either matches your sad depiction of a woman or (more likely) allows you to believe you understand them
Why he should choose -- (Score:3)
because she wants him too.
Get it?
Women aren't rational creatures. Period.
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Every of the 5 makers (not models)
Sigh, you didn't get that I was suggesting brands where the OP could look, rather then making a decision on what laptop he should get.
Hi, the point is over here, you seemed to have missed it. I said the OP should let his wife pick the model, not knowing what specifics the wife would want (screen size et al) I cant recommend specific models, rather specific brands/product lines.
The poster blatantly assume stuff just to disagree
Secondly, care to point it out as all I can see is you having a big cry over keyboards which has nothing to do with this thread.
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+1 again.
A 2008 MacBook, even non-Pro, is still a perfectly good Windows system for what you ask.
A computer can always do serviceably well exactly what it could do when it was new. Windows 7 should be decently good on it, Office 2010 (or OpenOffice/LibreOffice) perfectly fine. Yeah, it won't do gaming very well, but it'll do anything a new $500 Windows can do - and for only the cost of Windows itself.
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Re:Just REFURBISH the hardware you have (Score:2)
Just install windows on the mac?
I have a MBP 13" Unibody. The HW is pretty much ok, but the configured options of the era show their age. The battery has swollen, 2GB of RAM is little nowadays, and a 5400rpm HDD is slow.
Do as the Parent sugests, install Windows Seven (not Vista, and certainly not XP) in the laptop, but upgrade Memory (check the manual to see the max ammount of ram supported, and check the forums to see if it can take a tad more ), change the HDD (here faster RPM or SDD is the name of the game), and buy a new (non Apple, t
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I am partial o HP Computers. I have one that is 5 years old that is still good for basic tasks. These, though, cost $1000, so it will be cheaper to buy WIndows 7, home premium $200.
But... (Score:3, Funny)
then there is no Intel inside sticker, no windows logo on the keyboard. his wife will not like this.
Re:But... (Score:4, Insightful)
easy (Score:5, Funny)
Re:easy (Score:4, Insightful)
?
Buy a MS Notebook, complain about having to pay the Windoze tax, install Linux, configure several small but nonfunctioning items (buttons) for several hours, wonder why it doesn't go out of sleep/hibernation smoothly, rave how awesome Linux is while having Windows booted so you can play that one game you like or use that one piece software that doesn't run on Wine? /jk
i choose by hardware specs (Score:4, Informative)
A bit confused... (Score:2, Funny)
Why on earth would you give your MacBook Pro to your dead wife?
Re:A bit confused... (Score:4, Funny)
Furthermore, I'm troubled that you continue to speak to her about how she feels about the MacBook.
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I'm no grammar fanatic, but I just couldn't pass up such an opportunity.
It's like saying, "I'm leaving all of this free crack here.... for free.... to anyone" in a room with a crackhead.
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I'm not a grammer nazi but this guy isn't helping Apple fans look good.
" How would Slashdotters go about picking a solid, basic laptop for Web surfing and document editing that won't be obsolete in two years?""
Is this guy for real? He just described every laptop since 2006.
is this an early April Fools? "Uh... I'm a Mac Guy... uh, I can't form sentences... uh, can u halp me find laptop? duh...."
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Comas have a purpose.
As do commas.
Just a little giggle. When correcting someone's spelling and/or grammar, you are bound and determined to make at least one mistake, yourself.
Why hasn't she gotten used to it? (Score:5, Insightful)
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A Windows license is around $200. You can get a pretty decent laptop with Windows 7 for around $500. Sell the MacBook and buy a Toshiba or HP. You'll come out several hundred dollars ahead.
Re:Why hasn't she gotten used to it? (Score:4, Informative)
A windows license is considerably less than $200 here [newegg.com]. Dunno where you're doing your shopping.
As for a laptop? If she really only needs it for email and surfing, then pretty much anything will do the trick. With the exception of some flash games, nothing accessible via browser or email client is going to require much in the way of processor power.
Two Words: Screen Resolution (Score:2, Insightful)
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i think that res is perfect for an 11.6" - extreme portability. When at a desk, external display...
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This is my biggest pet peeve with laptop sellers. I've been looking at Dell and Lenovo and all I want is a list of their highest resolution laptops. I haven't found any way to filter my searches this way.
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Find a machine with a decent screen and you'll find a decent laptop
In my experience, find a machine with a decent screen resolution and you've found something less portable than a bag of lead bricks... but yeah, if there exists a lightweight laptop with high resolution, go for it.
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Um, you do realize that LCDs only do one resolution, right? Anything lower than that is the result of pixel doubling and the resolution that's listed is typically the native resolution.
Stores are a great place to start.. (Score:2)
I think right now, the choice is between a low/medium spec Windows 7 32 bit laptop and a high-spec Windows 7 64 bit laptop. I bought a new one recently and opted for 64 bit and as much RAM as I could get.. it really is fast! But, I still prefer to do my real work on my Windows XP workstation..
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This is my suggestion as well. Hands on with the units to get a feel of the keyboard, resolution size, weight and so on. Figure the specs out a head of time. Decided if AMD or Intel is a priority. Same with builtin Intel Video or Nvidia / ATI. Look at the non-crap bundled software as well, you might be surprised.
Whatever you do, don't skimp on Ram. Either buy the laptop with it installed or prepare to shop for an upgrade to at least 8GB. Windows 7 needs minimum of 4, which quickly gets used up with all the
It doesn't matter (Score:2, Insightful)
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I know how you feel. I think it is sad that Marketing keeps all their materials and just updates the number. For example, a salesperson told me a Core i3 processor is only good for doing one thing at a time. I just built a desktop based on a Core i3 and it is significantly faster than what it replaced and multitasks just fine. Just because it is one of the slowest doesn't mean it is slow.
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I built a reaaaallly cheap PC for a friend. I consider his computer to be a fire hazard and he is out of work. I'm a good friend, but I'm not a great friend. Thus, I did everything I could to build a stable, but extremely inexpensive system. (Minus the used expensive parts I had on the shelf).
While it would have only cost $20 to buy a multi-core processor I actually opted to just unlock a Sempron. It was surprising to find how many of the little things start adding up to fairly decent cost savings. Once it
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Concur, for the stated use, one step up from a Netbook should do the job for years to come.
I bought my last Windows 7 laptop based on power consumption and computing power- I needed a little more than what you state (compiles take 1 minute on a desktop, 2 on my chosen laptop and 5+ on a netbook...) Having a low power chipset was important to me, especially after suffering through a lap burning MacBook Pro, and a similarly hot, noisy, and unreliable "high performance" laptop I was fortunate enough to win fr
Lenovo (Score:5, Informative)
I have always used Dell laptops or ones provided by work (HP). I purchased a Dell netbook for my wife assuming that during her time at home it would be portable and easy for her to carry around. After a couple of months she decided it was just too small and underpowered for her and she wanted something else.
We only had a few requirements: built in mic and webcam (Skype with the grandparents), Windows, and a 10-key pad.
NewEgg had a Lenovo laptop which met all those requirements for ~$475. We picked it up and it arrived a few days later. Widescreen, 10-key, mic but a bit of a lame webcam. The rest of the specs are irrelevant as my wife doesn't need anything except Firefox, Word, and Excel.
But the important thing about Lenovo wasn't the hardware. The important thing was when it began shutting down unexpectedly and without warning after 30 minutes of heavy CPU usage (like when my wife was catching up on her shows on Hulu).
I contacted Lenovo support. I explained the problem and what I had done to test it. There was no usual bullshit required script I had to run through with the person on the phone. Nope. They e-mailed us the instructions on how to ship it back and we did.
It arrived at their facility in Texas on the 15th. On the 16th FedEx knocked at our door with the repaired laptop.
Lenovo will get my laptop business again and again until they break the trust level they created with that wonderful service exchange--arguably the best service I have ever received from any manufacturer in my 25 years of dealing with these things.
Good luck.
ThinkPad. (Score:4, Informative)
I second this. I can't comment on Lenovo's consumer-focused IdeaPad line, but the ThinkPad line is top notch.
If hardware quality, good engineering, and support/warranty service are what is important to you, ThinkPads (at least the T, X, and W series) are still untouchable (even by Apple). And they're less expensive, too.
If you want a good general-purpose laptop, take a look at the T410 (which is on discount as it's being replaced) or the newer T420.
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Re:Lenovo (Score:5, Insightful)
I will throw out my vote for ThinkPads.
If you travel through a major airport, and watch the business people go through security, you will see a ton of ThinkPads. Why? The damn things are nearly indestructible. When it came time to buy my kid a laptop for college, we looked at the deals the school had (a major university) and they had Mac, Dell, and Lenovo. My kid now is using a Lenovo T510 with an i5 and Windows 7. Her friends' Dell machines have all had to be serviced in the first semester. That's right, the Dells did not even make it through a semester.
At work they recently bought me a fancy-schmancy Dell notebook. I compared the build quality to my personally-owned T61 Thinkpad, and thought to myself "this Dell is junk". The Dell did not make it three months before it had to be serviced. I've been using my three year old T61 for the duration, and I cannot imagine why the three year old $1000 thinkpad is superior in almost every way to the brand new $1000 Dell laptop.
Here's another thought. Just like cheap tools are not worth the money, unless you plan to use them only once... cheap laptops are not worth the money, either. Buy a commercial strength unit. Don't buy a consumer-class laptop. You can usually tell the difference by looking for a docking connector. The consumer class laptops don't have a dock, the commercial strength ones do. Sure, it is a few more bucks up front, but after a couple years the consumer grade laptops are junk, but the commercial ones are still kicking.
Good luck with your purchase.
Latitude or Thinkpad (Score:5, Insightful)
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Try a few in stores (Score:2)
See which keyboards/track pads/screen/etc she prefers. Then buy whatever specs you need on that model.
Business laptop (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yep, +1 to that. The HP EliteBook (8530p) I have from work is a very solid machine. I don't know how tough it is - I've never dropped it - but it does seem as though it's built really well. Specs are good. And it doesn't look too fancy, which I like.
Sage Advice (Score:2)
Confucius say: Choosing Windows Laptop Easy! Open Window First!
Don't Overthink It (Score:2)
You left out the obvious information (Score:4, Insightful)
First question to ask yourself is: What does your wife want to do with her Windows laptop?
There are a bunch more factors you can consider (for example, maybe you're not planning to give Sony any more money). But until we know what your wife wants a Windows laptop for, it's pretty difficult to point you in any specific direction.
BTW, you might want to make sure she's comfortable with Windows 7, too. If all she wants is Windows XP, you might skip the stores and start looking other places (eBay, Craigslist).
Rough Specs (Score:2)
They're almost at the point of being disposable, which kind of bothers
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Commodity Item (Score:2)
Of course, I then installed Ubuntu via a Windows installer, and haven't looked back...
As House would say - You're an Idiot (Score:2)
You don't need a new machine and protect against obsolescence if you are just doing email and web surfing.
And, you could always Boot Camp Windows onto the Mac Book provided it is an Intel processor.
Staples, Best Buy, Fry's - what ever is cheap and has a decent comfortable keyboard for her.
If she's mostly at home and plugged in to power - get a bigger screen.
If she's on the go - get a screen that is readable but smaller to extend out battery life.
Toshiba have some nice machines (Score:2)
In the L500 or L650 ranges. Get an extended warranty - they're not so much more likely to fail, as bl@@dy expensive to fix when they do. Also, Toshiba's extended warranty means courier pick-up and return.
Quick version of the laptop buying guide: (Score:5, Informative)
I get this all the time from my family/relatives. Here's the rundown:
Get your preferences in order: Screen size, discrete graphics (must/may/must-not), battery life (min) and then just browse Fatwallet's laptop section or slickdeals until something that matches comes up. These days, any intel i3/i5 processor and 3-4GB of RAM will crush light-office-type tasks. I don't worry too much about the brand so long as I've heard of them before. You aren't investing enough to make spending tons of hours on research pay off.
Next up, I want to share a contrary attitude that many of us in the non-Apple community feel. I hasten to mention that I'm not saying your attitude is wrong, but I want to share a different point of view. You said you don't want something that's obsolete in 2 years, but I kind of wonder why? Spending $600 every 2 years gets you a lot further than spending $1200 every 4 years. If you had bought a $1200 laptop 4 years ago, you'd have a first-gen Core2Duo (Merom), 1GB of RAM, 802.11g whereas $600 was a first-gen (Yonah) Centrino, 1GB of RAM, 802.11g. Meanwhile, 2 years ago $600 got you a Arrandale i3, 3GB of RAM and a far better Intel GMA (one that can accelerate h264@1080p) with 802.11n and +50% battery life. So you got 2 years of a slightly faster laptop in exchange for 2 years with a much inferior one all at the same price.
Apple gets you into the habit of spending a whole heck of a lot of money for a really nice machine, I'm trying to suggest that in the Windows world, buying less laptop more often nets you more bang for your buck over time. What's more, the commodification of the laptop means you have so much less at stake regarding breakage. I love not caring about cases, biking with laptop in a backpack, traveling around with it, not investing in a laptop-lock-cable, not caring if my nephew spills apple-juice all over it (the keyboard tray got most of it, the laptop lived on). There are people for whom spending more makes sense: graphic designers need a color-accurate IPS LCD, road-warriors need something super portable, gamers need the latest mobile video cards. For the rest of everyone, get a cheapo laptop, beat the crap out of it and then replace it.
Finally, for those that suggest I'm creating a bunch of unnecessary waste (leaving aside that I'm getting tangible utility out of shorter cycle here), every one of my old laptops has been DBANed and sent over to FreeGeek (where I volunteer) to further their service. It's not waste if you can find a use for it!
Re:Quick version of the laptop buying guide: (Score:4, Interesting)
Or spend $600 every 4-6 years. I guess it is laptops we are talking about here, but for a lot of people, most of what they do can be done well with processors 4 years old or more. And in the Linux world, the rate of bloat increase is slower than that of the Windows world, since features are added because they are cool and not to make your existing machine feel slow so that you want to upgrade.
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The downside of this is the effort you need to go to every two years, to transfer all your files and reinstall all your applications. Maybe not a big deal for you (or for me: it takes 10 minutes of setup and 2 hours of waiting), but for a novice computer user it's quite daunting.
Actually I consider it an upside (although yes, daunting) because it forces the user to make a distinction between the data and the medium in which it is stored. For this precise reason, it's does double duty as a good time to prod users into thinking about their backup solution -- as backing up and migrating to a new machine share a common theme of enumerating what constitutes important data.
For users aspiring to be more advanced, I tell them not to copy anything directly but to sync it all with whatever t
thinkpad (Score:2)
$0.02 (Score:2)
I would suggest a Thinkpad T series or X series as her primary machine. The 420, 520, 220 series are quite modern but still rolling out. For a little less money you can get the yesteryear model which offer more choices of features. Dell Latitudes are also solid machines in my experience and I have heard good things about HP's Elite book line but lack first hand experience. As a rule of thumb if you see it in a big box store stay away; the build quality is often compromised for cost, and the Windows install
Microsoft store (Score:2)
My advice would be to go to a Microsoft store, a brick and mortar one if there's such a thing around where you live, or http://store.microsoft.com otherwise. It's a one-stop display of the best models for each niche and market segment. The redundancy will be very reduced and all the non-competitive models will be filtered out. And when you buy from them, you get your laptop with a custom system install without the brand bloat/crapware, which enhances the out-of-the-box experience considerably.
its not about it being obsolete (Score:2)
my experience with laptops is this - if you really take it on the road a lot I have found that it is more likely to break before it becomes obsolete
on my list of craptops that are not well made and break easily:
1. Dell - most of the affordable ones are pretty cheaply made - we got a deal on a master program I was in where all the students got them, in the end I offered mine up as parts help other keep theirs running - the final straw on mine was when the internal voltage regulator literally went up in smok
Misunderstanding (Score:2)
> "... that won't be obsolete in two years?"
I'm sorry, I thought you said a XP Laptop.
They come that way out of the box.
Know when to quit (Score:2)
Ask Steve Jobs (Score:5, Funny)
To send you a new wife.
Ergo. (Score:3)
In my opinion, keyboard and touchpad characteristics are probably the most important factors in PC laptops. Other than that, good internal hardware hardware is very cheap and similar among brands (Caveats being Intel chips tend to run a bit cooler for the same performance vs. AMD, and if you care about discrete video go for one that has that, otherwise ram and hard drives are easily accessible/upgradeable, but I'm sure other threads are covering that).
Keyboards:
One of the main things about PC keyboards is the Ctrl vs. Fn key. You will find yourself using the Ctrl key very often (less so than in a mac since right click is built in, but still); it's generally more ergonomically comfortable to use the leftmost edge of your left hand to hit the ctrl button if that's where it's located. I know for many laptops I've purchased the Ctrl and Fn key are swapped, and getting to do anything like copy/paste ctrl + C, Ctrl + v, Ctrl + tab, ctrl + click, ctrl + whatever is a minor hand-cramp inducing PITA. If you like keyboard hotkeys, best advice is to find one with the Ctrl keys taking the spotlight.
Mice:
Not only do the designs vary by quite a large bit between manufacturers as far as hardware implementation--Some that have one smooth metallic surface that only does tap response, some that have rough textured surfaces for tactile response, to Thinkpads with a nipple and touchpad and about six different ways to click and doubleclick--but it's also important to keep in mind that the mice action will almost NEVER feel as intuitive or as good as a Mac. The hardware is assembled from various OEM distributors, and depending on who they sourced their touchpad to and how good their driver development is, you will either get basic "scroll bars along edge of pad" functionality, or very poorly implemented pinch-zoom. On top of that, I have an Ideapad G-560 with a touchpad so insensitive slash oversensitive at exactly the wrong times you'd think it was steam driven. One HUGE annoyance is the cursor clicking to some random spot when your palm touches it while you're typing an essay. Have that happen a couple times and your document gets swiss cheesed with sentence fragments.
Unless every review you read for the lappy you're about to get has no qualms about keyboard or touchpad, definitely try to poke around, maybe play solitaire to test out the tap-click-hold-drag functionality, and try typing a couple paragraphs in a word document to make sure the cursor doesn't go Ouija board on you.
Go with the cheapest you can find (Score:3)
How would Slashdotters go about picking a solid, basic laptop for Web surfing and document editing that won't be obsolete in two years?"
Think about this for a second - you're looking for something that does the most basic, routine tasks out there. A bottom-of-the-barrel laptop these days ($3-400?) has about 1000x the power you need to surf the web and run MS Office. And it won't be obsolete in 2 years. The same software you run today will work just fine in 2 years, and will take care of any web/office task you could possibly conceive of.
These days, spending more than $500 on a laptop is pointless unless you use it for games, or as a fullblown desktop replacement (video editing, etc). But web use? Office docs? Email? A 5 year old laptop would suffice.
Skip consumer models (Score:3)
I would first suggest dual booting or virtualizing Windows on the Mac. Boot Camp, Parallels, and Virtualbox are all good solutions.
If the goal is to run Windows, with a real two or three-button touch pad or trackpointer, I would look for a notebook which is solidly built, for which you can get decent customer service, and parts are available well out of warranty.
Build quality limits you to Dell (Latitude and Precision lines only), HP, Lenovo, and Sony.
Customer service limits you to Dell, HP, and to a lesser extent, Lenovo,
Long-term (post-warranty) parts availability limits you to Dell and HP, and to a lesser extent, Lenovo.
What are her requirements? If she needs massive storage or wants mirrored storage, look for a notebook with internal RAID - like the Dell Precision M6500 (I have the M6400, which is the M6500's predecessor, and I love it - desktop chipset, RGB-LED backlit display, it's built like a tank, and is uber-serviceable so easy to upgrade and maintain) or if you don't want to spend that much on a notebook, consider the Latitude line, which generally use the same chassis as the Precision line (so they are also built like tanks) but with mobile chipsets and tend to be slightly lighter. Another option to save money is to call the Dell Outlet and see if they have the model you want as an "open box" return. It would still be marked with a refurb SKU but would be in perfect, as-new condition, and you can save up to $3K on the notebook like I did. Availability from the outlet can be spotty though - I had to call to get the configuration I wanted. They could have 20 of the exact config you want on hand today, and zero tomorrow, and three the next day. People often scour the outlet and flip them on feeBay and at computer fairs.
The items you want to check:
* How solid is the chassis? Will the screen hinges hold up?
On consumer models if you are not careful opening and closing the screen by grasping it at the sides near the hinges you will flex and eventually break the frame. On business models, you can just press down at the top of the screen and it won't flex, and it will close properly. I actually dropped my M6400 at a customer site, and it fell 3' to the tiled-covered concrete floor. It didn't damage it at all but for a consumer chassis I would have had to buy a whole new screen/lid/hinge assembly
* How serviceable is it? Download the service manuals of the model you are looking at. Are you going to hate the tedium of the four-hour project of upgrading the processor and hard drives, or will it be a 15 minute task? How accessible are the SO-DIMM slots?
* Does it offer all the connectivity you need?
* How easily can you get at the heat sinks to clean out the inevitable dust and lint?
You really didn't mention her needs in detail other than "it needs to run Windows" so if she is happy with the virtual second button and no middle button, just install Windows on the Mac (see first paragraph above). My next notebook will most likely be another Precision mobile workstation (but will check out Lenovo again), and my next desktop an iMac (why no macbook pro? I have one and never use it - I like the three-button layout, numeric keypad, screen, performance, and trackpointer + touchpad on the Precision)
Seriously? (Score:3)
Let me get this straight: You say you're a "Mac guy" and you need to buy a laptop that will run Windows and you find the process "bewildering". In fact, the author uses the term "bewildered" or "bewildering" at least three times in one paragraph.
I don't want to say that your statement confirms my belief about most Mac users, but it's really not all that hard. The only difference is that instead of relying on advertisements alone, you can peruse some of the extensive and exhaustive reviews of current laptops from various manufacturers that you can find online. I'm betting that if you Google "Windows laptops reviews 2011" you'll get exactly what you need. Or you can use Consumer Reports if you find the reviews "bewildering". They have little green or black dots for things like reliability, and features and so forth. You can even visit a Microcenter or Tiger Direct in your area and let your wife look them over. The ones that run Windows have these stickers on them that say so.
You'll be pleased with the prices.
Re: (Score:2)
...yes. This comes off as some fanboy trying to justify some Apple product that he's already purchased.
Things like cpu speed, disk size, memory size & GPU family are all things that have to be decided on even if you choose the allegedly easier route of buying a Mac.
This may come as a shock to some, but the stock Mac might not even be suitable for what you want to do with it. A good example of this are those suggesting that you use some sort of Virtual Machine to run Windows software. Another is basic ca
Re: (Score:2)
when i buy windows i go lenovo. the machines are still built like tanks and work fantastic.
i actually convinced my boss to let me buy a lenovo in a company of dells. mind you others are or may be better but lenovo just works perfectly for me. my x61s has been running solid for 3 years now and i just got the x201 which should tide me through for another couple of years.
if in the ultra portable space try the x220 (to be released soon) otherwise try the T series. u cant go wrong with either option.
Re: (Score:2)
It's just a pity that Sony makes such good laptops, not so many other makers that build a product that solid alas, they've all put some amount of crap into it to make it cost less than an Apple.