Motorola Xoom Won't Have Flash Support At Launch 187
Several readers have sent word that Motorola's Xoom tablet, marketed as the iPad's first significant competitor, won't ship with Flash support. Quoting:
"Support for Adobe's Flash technology has been an argument for the Android operating system since Apple CEO Steve Jobs notoriously said that Flash is a dying technology and that it won't make it onto iOS devices for several reasons. Flash support appeared in Android with version 2.2 and Google even flaunted it as a killer feature for tablets running Honeycomb (3.0), like the Motorola Xoom. But it looks like Adobe and/or Google have yet to put the finishing touches on Flash's implementation in Android 3.0. An advertisement for the Xoom on Verizon's site says (in 6 point text at the bottom) that Adobe Flash support on the Xoom is expected in Spring 2011, meaning this functionality won't be available at the launch of the first Honeycomb tablet on February 24. Considering how slow carriers and manufacturers are when it comes to software updates, this Spring 2011 update could mean more like late Spring 2011 ETA."
I think... (Score:3, Funny)
the Xoom is going to Xuck. I'll keep my Nook.
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Xoom, Flash, all these 'fast' names
I wasn't aware "Exhume" was a fast word. If you ask me, they're more dirty than fast.
Yet another product name that didn't pass the teenager giggle test before it was decided on.
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I don't think a teenager today would know what "exhume" means.
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Odin!
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It's pronounced "exhume."
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Honeycomb isn't worth the extra $1000+cellular plan the Xoom will cost, and my nook performs just fine.
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I'll wait for a couple of Honeycomb tablets to come out before I buy one, but if I were to get the Xoom I'd go WiFi only and just tether it to a rooted android phone.
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The real problem I have with the Xoom is that you have to sign up for the cellular data plan in order for the tablet to enable WiFi [engadget.com]. No Verizon data plan? No WiFi for you, either. Sure, you can cancel after the WiFi's been activated, with a minimum of one month data service... but still, that's just outright extortion. And there's no release date on the WiFi-only Xoom yet, so it's the cellular-enabled Xoom or nothing.
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this is like an alternative historical fiction... we get to see what the personal computer revolution would have looked like if telecoms drove it, rather than computer makers, hobbiests, small pc building companies, and end users.
sad that consumers are getting so used to the carriers driving what computers they buy know.
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The real problem I have with the Xoom is that you have to sign up for the cellular data plan in order for the tablet to enable WiFi [engadget.com]. No Verizon data plan? No WiFi for you, either. Sure, you can cancel after the WiFi's been activated, with a minimum of one month data service... but still, that's just outright extortion. And there's no release date on the WiFi-only Xoom yet, so it's the cellular-enabled Xoom or nothing.
Looks like it'll be a US-only thing, same as with the iphone. The rest of the world should be just fine.
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There isn't a firm release date for the Wifi one, but we only learned a hard date for the 3G/4G model until about a week before it ships. All the pundits have been saying the wifi model will ship in March or April at the latest. It won't require a dataplan. If you're opposed to paying for 3G data, then why pay $200 more for the 3G model?
Just wait a frickin' month.
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That right there is what you call "Insightful".
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The claim so far has been that you need to sign up for 1 month of Verizon service, and can terminate it afterwards. It's still annoying, but it's not a "$1k plan".
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Enjoy the subpar performance and non-honeycomb interface...
You don't need to spend $800 to get performance which would be entirely adequate for watching videos, browsing, reading books. An Archos 101 satisfies the things most people need from a tablet for a price which is 3/5 of an iPad. The Nook is cheaper again. I would hope that there will be android 3.0 tablets with beef up specs hitting those price points before the year is out.
There is no avoiding that the Xoom is way too expensive. It makes the overpriced iPad look like a bargain. Perhaps it's all a cunni
Silly Motorolla! (Score:2)
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Not all 2.2 phones support Flash (mine doesn't as I didn't want to pay $70/month for service). :(
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Haven't had an issue with flash on android yet. The only issue is I loaded up kitty cannon but couldn't play since it uses keys and doesn't work with a touch screen
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Pretty much all games where scrolling would be relevant (like scrolling text for quest info etc) for example. There are quite a few where developer is lazy and doesn't add it, but most do nowadays.
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Flash can't handle scroll wheels yet. how long do you think it will take them to get touch screen support?
About 18 months ago:
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FlashPlatform/reference/actionscript/3/flash/events/TouchEvent.html [adobe.com]
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FlashPlatform/reference/actionscript/3/flash/events/GestureEvent.html [adobe.com]
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FlashPlatform/reference/actionscript/3/flash/events/AccelerometerEvent.html [adobe.com]
And about 8 years ago:
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FlashPlatform/reference/actionscript/3/flash/events/MouseEvent.html#MOUSE_WHEEL [adobe.com]
But that's good right? (Score:2)
But that's good right? Isn't Flash an inefficient battery drainer like we are constantly told? If so, why is this bad news?
Split Personality? (Score:3, Insightful)
But mention a device that ships without it, and it's "crippled"...
Re:Split Personality? (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, despite blocking Flash from running ads on websites, I could still allow it with a single click if I came across a useful use of it.
And finally, I also run NoScript, but that doesn't mean no scripts ever run on my machine -- I allow what I want to allow.
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Yep, requirement number one, before they even decided on the form factor, was that it is not to run Flash.
That's totally true.
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Um, no. Jobs has welcomed Adobe's attempt to produce a build of flash that wouldn't cripple the iPad and made sense for the interface.
I do believe Adobe has yet to come up with such build, instead they decided to launch an anti campaign. Seems to me that Adobe knows it's impossible and knows that Flash is flawed.
Re:Split Personality? (Score:5, Insightful)
The remedy is to use an ad blocker so you can pick and choose what content to receive. In time I expect Ad Block will be used as much to curb the abuses of HTML5 as it is for Flash now. Assuming HTML5 ads aren't inlined and obfuscated which is a distinct possibility.
Re:But that's good right? (Score:5, Insightful)
But that's good right? Isn't Flash an inefficient battery drainer like we are constantly told? If so, why is this bad news?
It's not bad news. You apparently didn't get the Slashdot memo:
No Flash on iPad = vice
No Flash on Android = virtue
Re:But that's good right? (Score:4, Insightful)
Flash on Android is a choice. It's not on the iPad.
The correct slashdot memo is:
Choice = good
No choice = bad
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On the other hand, the more devices out there that are incapable of running Flash, the more likely Flash falls out of fashion. I'm all for that, frankly.
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Yes, and people are continuing to _choose_ a device that they know won't run Flash.
(I find it very funny that this new device won't have Flash at launch, and Windows Mobile won't have copy/paste, two things that people hugely mocked iOS about at certain times.. Why aren't these competitors making sure they have these alleged huge superiorities fixed at launch??)
Re:But that's good right? (Score:5, Funny)
Isn't Flash an inefficient battery drainer like we are constantly told?
That's incorrect - Flash is very efficient at draining batteries. ;)
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I should have added "Mod the truth as Flamebait" in there as well.
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Flash is write once - deploy nearly anywhere, it doesn't match the speed or economy of a native app. html/js is not really production ready unless you can exclude anything but the latest browsers from requirements ( hard as som
Wow, that was close... (Score:5, Insightful)
From the headline I was concerned that Xoom wasn't going to have reprogrammable nonvolatile memory [wikipedia.org].
I need to get out more.
So what? (Score:3)
Honestly, Flash is nice to have but not the be-all end-all that some have made it out to be. On my Android handheld, flash is almost all advertisements. On my iPad, I've been able to stream Netflix, Yahoo clips, YouTube, and WSJ videos with no problem. Somehow they've worked around the no-Flash limitation.
As a side note, I love my new iPad but some spouse or daughter is going to inherit it as soon as one of these awesome Honeycomb tablets comes down to my price range. iPad is great, but a bit too closed for my tastes. I'll just have to suffer a few months longer...
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Netflix (and Kindle) on iPad are in danger (Score:2)
Re:Netflix (and Kindle) on iPad are in danger (Score:4, Informative)
If you keep your iPad (or buy a new one), don't count on keeping your Netflix or Kindle apps. Apple is demanding that they sell their movies and books through Apple, and hand over 30% of the revenue.
If you read details of the new subscription model [tuaw.com], Apple clearly says: " . . . when Apple brings a new subscriber to the app, Apple earns a 30 percent share; when the publisher brings an existing or new subscriber to the app, the publisher keeps 100 percent and Apple earns nothing. " So if you currently have a Netflix account, Apple gets nothing. If you sign up for a new account through Netflix, Apple gets nothing. If you sign up for Netflix through Apple, Apple keeps 30%. Will Netflix go for that? It remains to be seen, but details matter.
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Details do matter. Here are a couple more.
The Apple price has to be equal or less than the outside price.
The developer isn't allowed to include a link to purchase outside of Apple within the app.
For Netflix, right this moment, I suspect that this won't matter. Netflix almost certainly gets most of their revenue from people signing up first.
For Amazon, this is a huge deal[*]. People will buy things after having installed the Kindle app, and will probably be pretty likely to do so from within the app where
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Frankly, I hope that Apple gets slapped down by the FTC over this. Taking a cut is one thing, but requiring equal or lower prices is quite another and is obviously and blatantly anticompetitive.
You can say that's anti-competitive for Apple but the reverse means it's anti-competitive for Amazon. If Amazon can say that prices for Ebooks bought through Apple will be higher than Ebooks bought through Amazon (even though it's the same book), who's being anti-competitve? Apple is saying if companies want to use their infrastructure, they can't up the price.
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It's anticompetitive because Apple has their own bookstore.
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Right. However, Apple also runs the platform.
My analogy: Imagine a mall. Apple has a cute litte bookstore. Amazon has this giant multi-level warehouse-like bookstore. Sony has this tiny little kiosk.
Amazon makes a ton of money selling lots of books through their store. They have the market clout to get great prices and they keep their overhead low with their warehouse-like store. Apple has a nicer store where people will suggest books and be friendly and they make a little money. Sony makes a little
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[Citation needed]
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Because Apple has a fairly impressive chunk of the desirable customers demographic and a strong no-flash position on their iDevices, many outfits who were previously content to use flash have had to adjust. However, many of them have just churned out an iDevice-specific app that wraps their web cont
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What this is the fact that apple and other devices have H.264 decoding chips embedded in the hardware. H.264 doesn't require a flash container. You'll find it a lot of places as a .m4v in a mpeg 4 container. For video that is all Flash is was a container. It just happened to be the container that was nearly universal for both mac and pc for many years.
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On quite a few sites, the URL for the video file is clearly visible in the page source. You can even rewrite the page on the client side for HTML5 video with some basic greasemonkey or equivalent. Annoyingly, enough sites do a little bit of obfuscation/screwing around with referrer URLs
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"On my iPad, I've been able to stream Netflix, Yahoo clips, YouTube, and WSJ videos with no problem. Somehow they've worked around the no-Flash limitation."
Yes, that's because either they support HTML5 video (YouTube), or they abandon web delivery and use iTunes or App Store, for those that want content protection.
That's great for Apple, which gets to implement their 30% tax and block stuff for whatever strategic, political, or moral reason they like, but that is bad for:
- for consumers who will eventually
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- for consumers who will eventually have to pay ~30% more,
That's a fee for marketing and distribution. I'm skeptical that we consumers would pay 30% less if developers all had to manage their own sales, marketing, and distribution channels. The evidence so far indicates that we can expect to pay 60% less on apps delivered through the app store, despite this 30% fee.
So, while DRM is generally obnoxious, it is not nearly so bad when it is not used to artificially restrict the devices that I can watch it on (e.g. as with Kindle or anything Apple).
How does forcing video to HTML5/H.265 artificially restrict the devices you can watch it on?
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- for consumers who will eventually have to pay ~30% more,
That's a fee for marketing and distribution. I'm skeptical that we consumers would pay 30% less if developers all had to manage their own sales, marketing, and distribution channels. The evidence so far indicates that we can expect to pay 60% less on apps delivered through the app store, despite this 30% fee.
Amazon claims to take 30% (that's slightly off as I understand it, but good enough for our purposes) and give 70% upstream. Now Apple wants 30% of the whole, which is equivalent to Amazon's cut. Amazon can increase the cost by some amount in order to make any money whatsoever on the sale, or they can completely eat any in-app purchases (hoping that extra-app purchases make up enough to keep the whole thing profitable) or they can stop distributing their Kindle app.
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That's great for Apple, which gets to implement their 30% tax and block stuff for whatever strategic, political, or moral reason they like, but that is bad for:
Let's be clear here. Apple keeps 30% of revenue for apps sold. This pays for the payment processing (including the credit card processing fee) as well as all the infrastructure involved. If the developer does not charge for his/her app (and many of the ones above do not), the Apple gets nothing. As for subscriptions, the new model is this: Apple gets 30% of subscriptions if Apple is the one that originates the subscription. If the subscription already exists or was initiated through the content provid
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- for consumers who will eventually have to pay ~30% more
Only if the content provider decides to charge two different tiers based on where the subscription originated.
Except that one of Apple's terms is that you CAN'T charge a lower price in your own store than what you charge in Apple's store. You're not allowed to undercut Apple.
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Is Youtube still content dependent on flash? (Score:2)
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What are you talking about? Phones and tablets use the youtube app to stream video. There is no flash required at all.
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You are kidding right? Smart Phones have had a YouTube app for years and now YouTube has an HTML 5 mode that supports h.264 or at least did and they are adding WebM support.
So the answer is a simple no it isn't.
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What you naysayers dont forget is that the mp4 encoded video is wrapped in a flash container.
The apps you speak of either transcode from the flv or extract the mp4(depending on the device) I've used apple, motorola, samsung, nokia, ZTE and Blackberry devices and none seem to access the full youtube library. Some devices default to m.youtube.com which is even more limited. Explaining this to my family, friends and customers is always trouble. Average people just want stuff to work. Those apps do not always
Flash is a dog on tablets (Score:2)
As a result, Vimeo is pretty much uselss and they don't have a dedicated app yet (just a buggy fan-made app).
Re:Flash is a dog on tablets (Score:5, Interesting)
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considering that it will be another 2-3 years before flash on android/arm is stable enough to actually use, and the current version has many limitations.(not all flash features are actually supported enough to run).
I would say Jobs is right. The underlying hardware is changing far to fast for Adobe to keep up. Adobe's 5 year development cycles just don't cut it in a market that changes every 6 months.
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That's inconsistent with my experience. I run flash on my Galaxy S and find it to be just fine for animations and video. There are no problems with the load time. I do notice that activities like scrolling and zooming become 'choppy', but that hasn't killed my experience. I expect my mobile device to be a little less snappy when viewing video. To compensate, I just set Dolphin to display Flash content only when I want to see it. I then have the choice to view the content or not. I appreciate that.
I'v
Video of it in use (Score:2)
Check the track record first... (Score:4, Interesting)
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Yeah, you can buy LG! Because they're so much better! Or Apple! Or..
Actually, I hear HTC and Samsung are pretty good.
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I would not say Samsung is pretty good. The Moment has several software issues that have never been resolved by Samsung but can be fixed by rooting and updating to "enthusiast" builds.
I was so soured on my Moment that when I could I updated to the HTC Evo. While I wished it have a stock build it is a very nice device and is running 2.2. 2.3 is supposed to come in March but until I see it I don't believe it.
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Motorola has been quite bad about promising updates and not delivering.
Au contraire, they are quite good at promising updates and not delivering. They do it all the time.
Re:Check the track record first... (Score:4, Informative)
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You've given a reasonable case against Motorola. Who do you recommend (for Android)? Who has a good track record of delivering what they promise? Perhaps more importantly, who has a good track record of supporting updates for phones that are no longer being sold?
I have a Motorola Droid, and I've had no problem because I've just rooted it and installed my own upgrades. My bigger concern with Motorola is their trend of attempting to DRM lock the bootloader to prevent rooting. They make it harder for us t
Good riddance? (Score:2)
I have moved into a flash free existence and all of my devices are better off. My electricity bill was less.
xda developers to the rescue (Score:3)
While not as good as official support at launch, this may help those who need flash.
Still no resolution to touch on Flash (Score:3)
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Spring 2011? (Score:2)
Seems close enough. At least it isn't on AT&T. I'm still waiting for my Captivate to be updated so the GPS will work properly.
Not at launch = never (for Motorola, at least) (Score:2)
To be honest, I've never heard of a firmware update coming from Motorola. All I hear is excuses. My L6 and Quench (aka Cliq xt) never got their update, so I'm basically a sitting duck for malware in Android. The L6 was trusty, but the Quench is full of bugs I'll never get fixed. I'm just waiting for Cyanogen Mod to add support to the MIB501 to erase the crap out of that phone.
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Flash doesn't require a firmware update. It is supported by Adobe, and they have been fairly regularly updating Flash player for Android.
For the record though, the original droid shipped with 2.0 and it has received updates for both 2.1 and 2.2.
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“Anecdotal evidence isn't valid!”
“Yes it is! I once used an anecdote as evidence, and later it turned out I was right!” [smbc-comics.com]
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Re:They won't miss it. (Score:4, Insightful)
That is why Apple can spit on flash, while Google is getting cozy with Adobe... Apple knows that, for the present at any rate, they have the install base sufficient to drive people to develop platform specific applications for them. Android has fewer platform-specifics, which makes Adobe's ability to(imperfectly) make available the vast legacy base of Flash stuff all at once attractive...
In the long term, Flash is almost certainly fucked. Apple and Microsoft both have competing native environments and development tools in which they are strongly invested, and which are defaults on their platforms. Google is less overtly hostile; but their native environment also isn't flash based, and their web products are pretty aggressive about advancing native HTML/JS and using those where possible. Adobe has the advantage of well-entrenched design tools; but their flash runtime has no platform of its own, and the world isn't quite as friendly as it used to be... Short and mid term, though, there is a huge body of legacy and current stuff that they can offer to platforms with weaker native application bases.
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Yes, we know how very well that strategy played out for Apple in the past, when they were the leaders and competing with cheaper but open and standard alternatives...
But hey, it's not like they're in imminent danger of Steve Jobs leaving the company... oh.
It certainly sounds an awful lot like history repeating.
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If(and only if) Apple adjusts their strategy as needed, I would say that what they are doing is (while rather nasty) quite pragmatic. They could hardly have had a better position from which to induce the production of iOS-native applications, favorable network effects, and customer lock-in than they have enjoyed since the iPhone release. They would have been foolish to turn that down by spending their time obsessing about whether it could support Flash, and Java(
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If you are talking about standard, Apple did not compete with standards, they used standards while other standards evolved around them to compete with Apple. For instance Apple used the RS242 standard for many interconnects. It was well understood and easy to im
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If Flash was just an app update why does every device and software combination have to be tested by Adobe for flash certification?
Adobe Flash requires direct hardware access. it requires tighter hardware access than the OS or the radio.
If it is just an app why does it need so much?
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As far as I'm concerned, the life of one of the workers in his sickening factories, is worth ten times more than his pathetic evil ass.
Steve Jobs is probably an asshole in real life as stories suggest, but, let's be honest: Foxconn is not one of his factories. Apple like Dell, like HP, like many other manufacturers contracts Foxconn to manufacture their products (sometimes in the same factory). Apple could have been more inquisitive about the working conditions of the people who make their products but there are not alone in this regard that they were not aware. In fact, I don't seem to recall that any other manufacturer promising anyt
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You do realize that Foxconn probably makes the Xoom as well, right? And everything else?
Hon Hai Precision Electronics (Foxconn) is a huge company - and it's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to buy any electronics that haven't passed through their hands.
So if you want to boycott Apple over the worker treatment at Foxconn, you will have to boycott Dell, HP, Sony, Micros
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If they don't audit then they can't know that anything is wrong so nothing needs to be improved and only Evil Apple was so vile to observe Foxconn and force the conditions and suicides into existence solely by that act.
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i wonder if western governments know about that argument - it might be convenient when it comes to providing support for foreign regimes that do horrible things like torture and murder their citizens. hey, you could call it Realpolitik...?
Many times the complaint about western governments is that they impose their morals and customs on other countries. In this case, the western custom of an 8 hr work day must be adhered to is being advocated by you.
Also the problem was the number of suicides, not murders. Out of the hundreds of thousands of workers that Foxconn employs I think there have been 20 reported suicides. I don't to belittle the deaths of those who died, but that's a very small percentage considering that the two major plants of
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i always wondered why it was that people talk a lot about globalizing free trade... ...but you don't hear so much about globalizing human or labor rights.
No the problem is you're complaining about a problem when you don't understand the definition. You are complaining that working long hours is some sort violation of labor rights when it isn't. Working 8 hours a day is only the Western ideal of work day in the US only. The French consider anything over 35 hours a week to be long. These are cultural differences in working hours. [wikipedia.org].
so, if conditions are so bad in a factory that people kill themselves in numbers then we shouldn't impose our standards onto them (especially if it's not financially expedient to do so.) Ok.
No you have to understand that the knee-jerk reaction of "OMG factories in China are evilz" only show you don't really know what
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So far I read: workers worked long hours (sometimes 12 hours a day). And they didn't like their jobs because it was repetitive. There were some additionally restrictions like not talking. Some of the dormitories had cockroaches (like my old college dorm). And there wasn't running water (which isn't uncommon for China). Their bosses yell at them. They wished they got paid more. They can't afford the things they make.
The sad reality of their situation is that they wish they had better lives with mo
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